plaetton:


Sorry, when I used the word ignorance, I didn't Mean it in a derogatory manner.

No wahala, i do learn a lot from you too

plaetton:


And is Western education the zenith of human civilization?

True that our long history as people were hardly catalogued, and therefore remain obscure and speculative. But is very very false to say or imply that Western value systems, moral and ethical, were at any time superior to ours.
You have to stop telling yourself that.
Digging deep into European history, there is nothing negative in our culture that Europeans did not practice at one time or another.

Remember that our dense tropical vegetation, and of course, deadly Malaria, isolated subsahara Africa from trade and, new ideas, science and philosophy that circulated for thousands of years in the Northern hemispheres.

You also forget, and I remind you again, that the Moors of North Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, conquered and ruled Spain and small parts of France for a solid 800yrs, and from whence the their civilizing influence seeped into Europe.
The rest, they say, is HIS-story.

Western education might not be the zenith for civilization but what other option is out there?

druid06:


Western education might not be the zenith for civilization but what other option is out there?

Interesting question. I wish we could another thread just to elucidate on Western education and value system.

Lets start with the prevailing hegemonic economically system in the world today. This is a product of Western education.
Western education falsely imprints on our consciouness that the resources of the world are scarce, and gives us ever changing formulas for the allocation and distribution of resources, .. And viola!, we Buy into it.

Then they bring in credit and debt instruments as wealth creation tools. We Buy into that too.

Then surreptiously, they smuggle in social chaos, bring in military warfare as economic policy tools that are their exclusive preserve, we keep quite.

Now fast forward 100 or 50 yrs, the entire planet is in a mess.
Look at at American debt, Greece insolvency, most of Europe, Africa, just to give a few examples.
Isn't it obvious that the Western economic system has woefully failed in what it was promised to do?

Where is much touted efficient allocation and utilization of the world s resources? Why are there still hunger and discontent all over the world?

That Western education has been the dominant system does not mean that we couldnt have done better or could not have evolved a more efficient and egalitarian system of resource allocation and distribution.

People dont realise that religion is a drug like weed.


There are responsible people that smoke weed once in a while. You wouldnt know that they are weed smokers as it doesnt affect their work life. But even among these people, some of them will still drop out and become waste men.

There are irresponsible and lazy people that smoke weed frequently. Their brains have been fried from all the smoking and they live in filthy conditions since they dont do anything but smoke.


This is religion for you- a substance, if not taken carefully, will damage your brain and life.

When your brain is damaged, you can start imaging things and believing a whole lot of nonsense

Religion is not like weed, religion is like K2 Spice - completely man made, completely useless and very dangerous.

mmsen:


Religion is not like weed, religion is like K2 Spice - completely man made, completely useless and very dangerous.

But religion has its own usefulness, calms the mind of rebellious persons for the politicians. It remain a tool in the hands of very dangerous thieves

It has its dangers though.

druid06:


Western education might not be the zenith for civilization but what other option is out there?

The other option is that you liberalize and think for yourself.

That you create an environment where you pursue knowledge instead of accepting ignorance.

Besides, it's not 'western education', it's formal education. There's nothing 'western' about education in Nigeria. The fact that people in Nigeria insist on ignorantly referring to it as 'western education' is why some Islamists insist on keeping their children out of school.

Call it what it is - formal education.

plaetton:


Interesting question. I wish we could another thread just to elucidate on Western education and value system.

Lets start with the prevailing hegemonic economically system in the world today. This is a product of Western education.
Western education falsely imprints on our consciouness that the resources of the world are scarce, and gives us ever changing formulas for the allocation and distribution of resources, .. And viola!, we Buy into it.

Then they bring in credit and debt instruments as wealth creation tools. We Buy into that too.

Then surreptiously, they smuggle in social chaos, bring in military warfare as economic policy tools that are their exclusive preserve, we keep quite.

Now fast forward 100 or 50 yrs, the entire planet is in a mess.
Look at at American debt, Greece insolvency, most of Europe, Africa, just to give a few examples.
Isn't it obvious that the Western economic system has woefully failed in what it was promised to do?

Where is much touted efficient allocation and utilization of the world s resources? Why are there still hunger and discontent all over the world?

That Western education has been the dominant system does not mean that we couldnt have done better or could not have evolved a more efficient and egalitarian system of resource allocation and distribution.

Lets not use world statistic in measuring the good and bad of western education, a case study with our dear Nigeria is enough, in fact let's pick on a particular custom and see how egalitarian it has evolve with respect to resource allocation and distribution ( all these greedy and gullable black faces i see)


The fact still remain that western education has done more good than harm,

Customs and tradition has been an impedement to industrial development in nigeria but today shrines are being leveled in the name of oil exploration and mining.

Today all land and its mineral resources belong to the govt, the shrines and the evil forest(okija shrine) is not excluded, and so the govt gave us resource control law.

Bullsit to the barbaric custom which says women cannot own landed property, how have they evolve into an egalitarian custom without statute and judicial pronouncement?

So why not?
Why not what?

Build a cathedral of doom and give them the bible to read.

urheme:


Lets not use world statistic in measuring the good and bad of western education, a case study with our dear Nigeria is enough, in fact let's pick on a particular custom and see how egalitarian it has evolve with respect to resource allocation and distribution ( all these greedy and gullable black faces i see)


The fact still remain that western education has done more good than harm,

Customs and tradition has been an impedement to industrial development in nigeria but today shrines are being leveled in the name of oil exploration and mining.

Today all land and its mineral resources belong to the govt, the shrines and the evil forest(okija shrine) is not excluded, and so the govt gave us resource control law.

Bullsit to the barbaric custom which says women cannot own landed property, how have they evolve into an egalitarian custom without statute and judicial pronouncement?

So why not?
Why not what?

Build a cathedral of doom and give them the bible to read.

My dear,
It is not customs and traditions that prevented Nigeria from industrialization.
Nope.
It is Western education. Yap. Let me explain.

Our first set of leaders and elites were Western educated. They literally had a blank template to mold our society to any level of economic and industrial greatness.

But Unfortunately, while studying in Western societies, they bought the entire Western economic paradigm hook line and sinker.
They came back, not as Africans with new progressive ideas, but as Western colonial clones eager to fill the shoes of their role models.
They continued to perpetuate the same lopsided educational and economic policies that preserved the parasitic relationship between Africa and the west.

The rest, they say, is history.

plaetton:


My dear,
It is not customs and traditions that prevented Nigeria from industrialization.
Nope.
It is Western education. Yap. Let me explain.

Our first set of leaders and elites were Western educated. They literally had a blank template to mold our society to any level of economic and industrial greatness.

But Unfortunately, while studying in Western societies, they bought the entire Western economic paradigm hook line and sinker.
They came back, not as Africans with new progressive ideas, but as Western colonial clones eager to fill the shoes of their role models.
They continued to perpetuate the same lopsided educational and economic policies that preserved the parasitic relationship between Africa and the west.

The rest, they say, is history.

Really tired
Some sleep won't be bad

Try some; is good for you

plaetton:


Interesting question. I wish we could another thread just to elucidate on Western education and value system.

Lets start with the prevailing hegemonic economically system in the world today. This is a product of Western education.
Western education falsely imprints on our consciouness that the resources of the world are scarce, and gives us ever changing formulas for the allocation and distribution of resources, .. And viola!, we Buy into it.

Then they bring in credit and debt instruments as wealth creation tools. We Buy into that too.

Then surreptiously, they smuggle in social chaos, bring in military warfare as economic policy tools that are their exclusive preserve, we keep quite.

Now fast forward 100 or 50 yrs, the entire planet is in a mess.
Look at at American debt, Greece insolvency, most of Europe, Africa, just to give a few examples.
Isn't it obvious that the Western economic system has woefully failed in what it was promised to do?

Where is much touted efficient allocation and utilization of the world s resources? Why are there still hunger and discontent all over the world?

That Western education has been the dominant system does not mean that we couldnt have done better or could not have evolved a more efficient and egalitarian system of resource allocation and distribution.

There's never been anything proven to work 100% completely and so why do you think western education and value systems would do otherwise?

And you talk about our resources depleting like it's incorrect. I wish I had a source for this but I read somewhere where ground water are gradually depleting and out total atmospheric oxygen is on the reducing side. Why do you think most developed countries are investing in alternative means of power instead of solely relying on oil?

There's hunger and discontent in the world in places where the few people chosen to lead are in there for their selfish reasons and greed. Take a look at the poorest countries in the world and check the corruption in there and how their elected representatives are living in absolutely luxury... Would you tell me the poverty in that part of the world is caused by western economic system?

Also, the reason why most countries war on others is for greed and has nothing to do with the western economic system.

Listen Plaetton, western education, value systems and economic systems has done more good than harm. You're smart man, you know this and I'm not sure why you're being so rebellious to the truth.

mmsen:


The other option is that you liberalize and think for yourself.

That you create an environment where you pursue knowledge instead of accepting ignorance.

Besides, it's not 'western education', it's formal education. There's nothing 'western' about education in Nigeria. The fact that people in Nigeria insist on ignorantly referring to it as 'western education' is why some Islamists insist on keeping their children out of school.

Call it what it is - formal education.

And where has liberalism and free thinking has ever been accepted in African cultures? The African culture has always been pervasive towards liberalism.

On a side note, isn't liberalism and free thinking one of the basic tenets of western education/value system?

Call it formal education or western education.. Whatever works for you but I'd never try to be politically correct for some extremist apologist and so I'd continue referring to the term as western education.

plaetton:


My dear,
It is not customs and traditions that prevented Nigeria from industrialization.
Nope.
It is Western education. Yap. Let me explain.

Our first set of leaders and elites were Western educated. They literally had a blank template to mold our society to any level of economic and industrial greatness.

But Unfortunately, while studying in Western societies, they bought the entire Western economic paradigm hook line and sinker.
They came back, not as Africans with new progressive ideas, but as Western colonial clones eager to fill the shoes of their role models.
They continued to perpetuate the same lopsided educational and economic policies that preserved the parasitic relationship between Africa and the west.

The rest, they say, is history.

Absolute hogwash.

They failed because the colony was still new. There was no experience. This could be compared to your first day at your new job after just graduating freshly from school...

You'd also have to consider that only a few individuals were educated back then..

Religious, cultural intolerance could also be included as reasons that prevented Nigeria from Industrialization, development.

druid06:


There's never been anything proven to work 100% completely and so why do you think western education and value systems would do otherwise?

And you talk about our resources depleting like it's incorrect. I wish I had a source for this but I read somewhere where ground water are gradually depleting and out total atmospheric oxygen is on the reducing side. Why do you think most developed countries are investing in alternative means of power instead of solely relying on oil?

There's hunger and discontent in the world in places where the few people chosen to lead are in there for their selfish reasons and greed. Take a look at the poorest countries in the world and check the corruption in there and how their elected representatives are living in absolutely luxury... Would you tell me the poverty in that part of the world is caused by western economic system?

Also, the reason why most countries war on others is for greed and has nothing to do with the western economic system.

Listen Plaetton, western education, value systems and economic systems has done more good than harm. You're smart man, you know this and I'm not sure why you're being so rebellious to the truth.

Lol.
My friend, pls don't get me going on this topic.
I can write an entire book on this issue.

Let me give a few things to ponder.
Take a look at our Trade figures with Europe, USA, China and other Asian countries, and then compare it our Trade figures with other African countries (if such figures are available at all).

Now tell what on Earth could be the reason that Africans hardly trade with each other?

Also ponder why there exists No Rail networks linking major trading hubs in subsahara Africa.
Is this an oversight, or a deliberate geopolitical policy, enforcable by sabotage treachery?

druid06:


And where has liberalism and free thinking has ever been accepted in African cultures? The African culture has always been pervasive towards liberalism.

On a side note, isn't liberalism and free thinking one of the basic tenets of western education/value system?

Call it formal education or western education.. Whatever works for you but I'd never try to be politically correct for some extremist apologist and so I'd continue referring to the term as western education.

If you honestly believe that it is/was the intention of the western education system to have 30 children (with one focal point in the teacher) think 30 different ways, then you are naive - the goal was always to ensure a uniformity of ideas, to condition young people to accept the myths and cultural ideals of that society. That is why referring to Nigerian 'formal education' as 'western education' looks especially odd, if not outright dishonest. It isn't PC to refer to formal education as what it is.It is, however, provocative (and nonsensical) to call it 'western education' when anyone with a modicum of experience of western society can patently see that there is nothing 'western' about it.

Schools are designed to be people factories, to integrate people into the workplace. When schools for the masses were introduced in western society the majority of people were being taught just enough to work in the factories, or to die in the armed forces. Now that most western nations no longer produce anything of value, the system is in limbo.

P.S.
Just because liberalism may not have been a part of the educational system in Africa's past does not justify a refusal to embrace it now. There is no benefit to being a slave to the history.

@druid06
Don't get me wrong, Brother.

I am in no anyway saying that Western education is evil or unecessary. Not at all.

I was merely responding to a poster who classified it as the apex of human civilization.

By simply noting that Western economic system is a product of Western education, we can use the weaknesses of the economic system to point out the underlying weakness in the Western education.

As can all witness the chickens now coming home to roost, it is now obvious that the Western economic system is a perpetual Ponzi Scheme that uses time as its only strength.
It works only when everyone, both preys and predators, gets with the program.

It is system that borrows from the future to pay for the present.
It is a system that uses wars and subterfuge to punish erring players, and keep everyone in line.

The economic doctrines of Adam Smith, John Maltus and John Maynard Keynes have all been proven to be false prophesies.

Bump.

plaetton:
@druid06
Don't get me wrong, Brother.

I am in no anyway saying that Western education is evil or unecessary. Not at all.

I was merely responding to a poster who classified it as the apex of human civilization.

By simply noting that Western economic system is a product of Western education, we can use the weaknesses of the economic system to point out the underlying weakness in the Western education.

As can all witness the chickens now coming home to roost, it is now obvious that the Western economic system is a perpetual Ponzi Scheme that uses time as its only strength.
It works only when everyone, both preys and predators, gets with the program.

It is system that borrows from the future to pay for the present.
It is a system that uses wars and subterfuge to punish erring players, and keep everyone in line.

The economic doctrines of Adam Smith, John Maltus and John Maynard Keynes have all been proven to be false prophesies.

Confirm!!

More like master and slave... Hence their reasons for having overwhelming interest in other people's resources.

People dont realise that religion is a drug like weed.


There are responsible people that smoke weed once in a while. You wouldnt know that they are weed smokers as it doesnt affect their work life. But even among these people, some of them will still drop out and become waste men.

There are irresponsible and lazy people that smoke weed frequently. Their brains have been fried from all the smoking and they live in filthy conditions since they dont do anything but smoke.


This is religion for you- a substance, if not taken carefully, will damage your brain and life.

When your brain is damaged, you can start imaging things and believing a whole lot of nonsense

U gave a good analogy; cos me I don't carry it on my head(religion); even diff people will tell me to get closer, deeper and rooted in it. Am still d way I am.

Now d question even if u don't believe there is a Jesus Christ; but is there a spiritually side to this world and life?

Thank You.

plaetton:
Jesus, son of god , or co-god, as the trinitarians would have it, the designer and fashioner of the universe, journeyed from heaven all the way to earth, and spent only three years teaching some a local tribe about the kingdom of heaven? In all that time, he forgot to put his teachings in writing for posterity.

He supposedly cured many of illnesses, but forgot to document his healing techniques to posterity.
Without telling us the causes of disease, he left, then humankind continued to be ravaged by the very same diseases that Jesus supposedly cured.

It took another 2000 yrs for humanity to be gifted with the birth of Louis Pasteur.
Lets take a brief biography of Louis Pasteur, courtesy of Wiki.

[b]Louis Pasteur (/ˈluːi pæˈstɜr/, French: [lwi pastœʁ]; December 27, 1822 – September 28, 1895) was a French chemist and microbiologist who is well known for his discoveries of the principles of vaccination, microbial fermentation and pasteurization. He is remembered for his remarkable breakthroughs in the causes and preventions of diseases, and his discoveries have saved countless lives ever since. He reduced mortality from puerperal fever, and created the first vaccines for rabies and anthrax. His medical discoveries provided direct support for the germ theory of disease and its application in clinical medicine. He is best known to the general public for his invention of the technique of treating milk and wine to stop bacterial contamination, a process now called pasteurization. He is regarded as one of the three main founders of bacteriology, together with Ferdinand Cohn and Robert Koch, and is popularly known as the "father of microbiology".[2][3][4]

Pasteur also made significant discoveries in chemistry, most notably on the molecular basis for the asymmetry of certain crystals and racemization. He was the Director of the Pasteur Institute, established in 1887, till his death, and his body lies beneath the institute in a vault covered in depictions of his accomplishments in Byzantine mosaics.
[/b]

So between Jesus and Louis Pasteur, who is the saviour of mankind?

Good me I don't carry religion in my head; the rate at which fake pastors are emanating is discouraging me as a Christians; and the financial commitment on members even during nauseating.

I know u don't believe in Jesus Christ, but do u believe that there is a spiritual side to this world and life??

Thank you.

Pavarottii:

Good me I don't carry religion in my head; the rate at which fake pastors are emanating is discouraging me as a Christians; and the financial commitment on members even during nauseating.

I know u don't believe in Jesus Christ, but do u believe that there is a spiritual side to this world and life??

Thank you.

It depends on what you mean by "spiritual".

I like to understand reality from a scientific perspective.
As such, I believe that there are multiple dimensions of existence, multiple frequencies, each with peculiar life that resonates within them.

I also think it is much more sensible and much more profitable for humans to focus on understanding our own reality and enriching it than it is wasting too much precious time speculating and entangling our lives on what lies other dimensions.

For good example, when we focus our inquiries on our reality, we discover the cure for diseases, increase food production, overcome the limits that nature put on us.

But when we focus too much on what lies without, we create confusing ideals, beliefs, philosophies and doctrines. These confusing beliefs tend to set man against his neighbor, brother against brother, and community against community.

..............................................................

White or not, hero or not..... No one deserves to be worshipped by others. It's tyrannical and EVIL to demand that others worship you. No decent human being tolerates "divine" tyranny.

Human beings who long for freedom are driven to defy all tyrants. And if they be gods, so what? Will we accept slavery because we're afraid? Or will we fight? For freedom. For dignity. For respect. Without these, what are we? Those among us who have declared their preference for slavery have betrayed the human race. They are animals, beasts of the field, not humans at all.

A human being fights tyranny. If it's a government, he fights the government. If it's a king, he fights the king. So why should he stop at "God"? It's the supreme question of values. Should you be like a dog slobbering on your master's lap and begging for treats, or a human being aspiring to become God? You can't be both. You can't be a Jew (orthodox) and a human. You can't be a Christian and a human. You can't be a muslim and a human. These are dogs in human bodies. They are trained to beg, bark and bite. They stand on their hind legs and perform tricks. They spend their lives defining themselves with respect to their cosmic master. If dogs could create a religion, what would their God be? - the supreme human master.

A human being is someone who serves no master, seeks no master and will have no master. Slaves ain't human.

plaetton:

It depends on what you mean by "spiritual".

I like to understand reality from a scientific perspective.
As such, I believe that there are multiple dimensions of existence, multiple frequencies, each with peculiar life that resonates within them.

I also think it is much more sensible and much more profitable for humans to focus on understanding our own reality and enriching it than it is wasting too much precious time speculating and entangling our lives on what lies other dimensions.

For good example, when we focus our inquiries on our reality, we discover the cure for diseases, increase food production, overcome the limits that nature put on us.

But when we focus too much on what lies without, we create confusing ideals, beliefs, philosophies and doctrines. These confusing beliefs tend to set man against his neighbor, brother against brother, and community against community.

I hear things like God has made this one's future to be great and all. So nothing can stop them as his word will always stand eg Goodluck Jonathan, Oyedepo, Ibiyomie, Obasanjo, Adeboye, and some other prominent men. I believe I will be great too; but should I put my total belief in God, that no matter how this world wants to pan out. As for me I know it is written I will be great?

me self no understand

Mme self no understand..