₦airaland Forum

RagnarLodbrok:
Quran 3:7

{Sahih International
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.}

plainbibletruth:
Waiting for Rilwayne001 & company to 'explain' this!
Maybe Allah was still revising the Quran 73 years after Mohammed's death.

malvisguy212:
God bless you my brother, here is another one:
the Quran claims that one night, God took Muhammad to the "al- Aqsa" mosque is in Jerusalem:
"Exalted is He who took His Servant by
night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-
Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings
We have blessed, to show him of Our
signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the
Seeing." - Quran 17:1
The Muslim army conquered Jerusalem
in 637 AD and the al-Aqsa mosque was
completed in 705 AD. The problem with
the above passage in the Quran is that
Muhammad died in 632 AD, which was 5years before the Muslim army reached
Jerusalem and 73 years before the al-
Aqsa mosque was built.

RagnarLodbrok:
Malvis, I've always known you were a foool but this, lol! This is far beyond even you,

Masjid is not a building dumbo. Why didn't you ask the same question when muslims used to use the aqsa as their qiblah?

Malvis is assuming that a Masjid (سجود) is a structure or building with four walls and a roof. This is incorrect thinking, as a Masjid is a place where sujood (سجود), where prostration occurs.

Therefore, as we can see, there is no need for a physical building to be present for an area to be considered a Masjid. Summarily, any place in which sujood/ prostration is done can be called a Masjid. This is also similar to the word Church (ἐκκλησίαν), which merely means the place of an “assembly or congregation”,
and not particularly four walls, a roof and a bell tower. The individual who brings forward such an argument would therefore have to be greatly ignorant of Islam, and is merely seeking to conjure a straw man argument (a fallacious argument) by attempting to present an anachronistic error in Islamic teachings.

RagnarLodbrok:
Why Quran calls Mary, a Sister of Aaron ?
The verse in question is;

"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (Al-Qur’an 19:28)

It does not mean that here Qur’an calls Mary, the real sister of Aaron, the Prophet who was hundreds of years before her. Here she is only being called a female person of the family, from the Noble lineage of Prophet Aaron.

The Qur’anic usage:


In order to understand Qur’anic language one must look into other Qur’anic passages.

Qur’ans calls Prophet Shoaib as the brother of the people of Midian. Qur’an says;

“And unto Midian (We sent) their brother, Shu'eyb." (Al-Qur’an 7:85)

And similarly Qur’an calls Prophet Salih, the brother of the people of Thamud. It says;

"And unto Thamud (We sent) their brother Salih." (Al-Qur’an 11:61)

In both these examples it is never meant that the Prophets were the real brothers of the each and every person of that tribe. It’s only way to address them. It means that Shu'aib was a (male) person from the people of Midian and similarly Salih from the people of Thamud.

So in the very same manner when Qur’an describes Mary, the mother of Christ as 'Sister of Aaron', It means that she is being referred to as a (female) person from the people, the lineage of Prophet Aaron.
This is infact an Arabic idiom, a way to address. In Arabia a person from the tribe Banu Mudhar may be addressed as Ya Akha Mudhar, meaning 'O the brother of Mudhar'.

The Prophetic answer to this question:

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Aaron", whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: “The (people of the old age) used to call names (of their persons) after the names of the Prophets and pious persons who had gone before them.” (Sahih Muslim, Book on General Behaviour, Hadith 3962)

The Holy Prophet (PBUH) meant to say that Mary’s relationship with Prophet Aaron was mentioned because she was of his lineage for among Semites it was common to associate a person with his lineage.

This fits the context as well. The people thought that Mary had done something unworthy of a chaste woman and thus as they rebuked her, they first made a reference to her noble ancestry and then testified that even her own father was no wicked person (verse 28).

Observations from the Bible:

1- One thing we need to consider is that Qur’an does not call Mary ‘Sister of Moses’ but ‘Sister of Aaron’.

2- Aaron (PBUH) we know was the first in line for the Israelite priesthood.

3- New Testament clearly tells us that Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist (PBUH) was from the lineage of Aaron (Luke 1:5). Also it tells that Mary was a cousin of Elizabeth (1:36). Therefore we can easily call them both ‘Sisters of Aaron’ i.e. from the lineage of Aaron.

4- Infact we have evidence of the similar usage from the Bible. In Genesis 13:8 Abraham and Lot are called brothers while certainly they did not come from loins of one individual. It reads;

“And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.”

A certain Christian commentator, Adam Clarke says in his commentary to this verse;


‘[It means] we are of the same family, worship the same God in the same way, have the same promises, and look for the same end.’

Was the same not true in case of Mary and Aaron? Were they both not from the same priestly family and of same faith?

So the conclusion is that this is only a beautiful way of expression in the Arabic language and to try to twist it some other way speaks only of ones inner wickedness and that’s all!

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

RagnarLodbrok:
There is a very simple explanation, which can be understood from the Qur'an.

The events have taken the following sequences:

First:
Allah (swt) sent the angels to tell Mary (p) about the glad tidings. This
is in verse (3:45).


Then:
After the Angels left Mary (p) she started wondering and prayed to Allah
(swt) asking Him in the first part of verse (3:47): "O my Lord!, How shall
I have a son when no man has touched me…"

Note: Here she didn't ask the angels but she prayed and asked Allah (swt).
This means that the Angels have already gone. If the Angels were still
there then why she didn't ask them.?

So, after she prayed and asked Allah(swt), Allah (swt) sent one angel to
Mary (p) to give her His answer in the second part of verse (3:47) "… He
said: So (it will be) for Allah creats what He wills. When He has decreed
something, He says to it only:"Be!"- and it is."


Finally:
After a period of time Allah (swt) sent his messenger, the angel Gabriel
(p), to grant her a pure child. This is in verse (19:19).

In this time she didn't ask Allah as in verse (3:47), but she asked the
Angel Gabriel (p) because he was in front of her and she was afraid from
him: " How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I
unchaste?" ,verse (19:20)

The angel answered her as mentioned in verse (19:21).

Isn't this a simple explanation? Clown!

plainbibletruth:
Where did the Quran state this your sequence dummy?

The events have taken the following sequences:

First:
the angels went to Mary 

Then:
 Mary started wondering and prayed 

[Note: Here she didn't ask the angels but she prayed and asked Allah. 
This means that the Angels have already gone. If the Angels were still
there then why she didn't ask them.?] whose footnote us this; yours or the Quran's? So you have craftily created A GAP between verses 45 and 47: angels were talking to Mary but according to you she never asked the angels what bothered her about their message. Was it out of fear or what? Maybe your 'creative' mind should tell us. 

Even though it's not there in the Quran you also added this:
So, after she prayed and asked Allah sent one angel to Mary to give her His answer in the second part of verse (3:47) "… 

Finally:
After a period of time Allah  sent the angel Gabriel to grant her a pure child. This is in verse (19:19).

Clap for yourself, dummy!

malvisguy212:
you mean, when the angel told Mary she will have a son , the angel LEFT and leter Mary ask "how can this be "? You are a liar, and a twister.

Surah 3:45-47: Behold! the angels
said: “O Mary! God giveth thee glad
tidings of a Word from Him: his name
will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary,
held in honour in this world and the
Hereafter and of (the company of)
those nearest to God…She said: “O
my Lord! How shall I have a son
when no man hath touched me?” He
said: “Even so: God createth what He
willeth: When He hath decreed a
plan, He but saith to it, ‘Be,’ and it is!
(Yusuf Ali)

Mary and the angel was having a conversation here , the angel did not left , every question she asked , she was given a direct answer straight away.

3:45
Sahih International
[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].

3:46
Sahih International
He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous."

3:47
Sahih International
She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

malvisguy212:
the guy is not making sense at All.

malvisguy212:
you failed woefully, you say the Arab knew the meaning of the ïdiom used in that verse ? The Arab christians understand there scripture very well , and the reason they question muhammed was that the knew people of the old never called saint's "sister" or "brother" the saints were only called "SON" and "DAUGHTERS" the christians in najran knew this hence the question given to muhammed followers. If there should be a place were this idiom is used, its got to be in the bible , but there is NO place in the bible the new tastament called the old testament saint's "sister" or "brother" NEVER. When the NT refers to people being called after saints of old, it calls them, "son" or "daughter". Jesus is called "son of David" in Matthew 21:9, and Elizabeth
is called, "daughter of Aaron" in Luke 1:5, etc. Abraham is referred to as "father" by the Jews in John 8:38. But never are these people called, "brothers or sisters" after any of the previous saints. There's an America organisation called DAUGHTER OF REVELATION


I'll also note that Aaron is mentioned
about 20 times in the Quran. Only Mary
is called "sister of Aaron" after him.
Moses is mentioned I would say about
150 times, more or less. In no instance, is anyone called, "brother or sister of
Moses" metaphorically.

malvisguy212:
you this man , you are one of the most bias muslim here. Masjid is an Arabic word which means mosque in the English language.A masjid is a place where Muslims perform prayers and worship Allah . http://www.linktoislam.net/islamic-articles/article.aspx?id=1

And the quranic verse I provide indicate the name of the masjid (mosque) is al-asqa mosque . ^^^ read it again .

malvisguy212:
the quran is a joke indeed, "NO one knows its true interpretation except Allan" then what the points of sending the book ? How can they know the truth if know one can no the true interpretation? " But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it." how can you believe in what you have no knowledge of ?

RagnarLodbrok:
It's called faith. Christians wouldn't understand.

RagnarLodbrok:
Loooool! Then it's simple, is masjid a place or a building? Give me a straight forward answer.

RagnarLodbrok:
Note: she wasn't called sister of Moses, she was called sister of Aaron. Obviously due to the connection I pointed out below, I'm sure every sane person gets it now. Let malvis wallow in his shame and self hatred.

RagnarLodbrok:
Haha.

RagnarLodbrok:
Why Quran calls Mary, a Sister of Aaron ?
The verse in question is;

"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (Al-Qur’an 19:28)

It does not mean that here Qur’an calls Mary, the real sister of Aaron, the Prophet who was hundreds of years before her. Here she is only being called a female person of the family, from the Noble lineage of Prophet Aaron.

The Qur’anic usage:


In order to understand Qur’anic language one must look into other Qur’anic passages.

Qur’ans calls Prophet Shoaib as the brother of the people of Midian. Qur’an says;

“And unto Midian (We sent) their brother, Shu'eyb." (Al-Qur’an 7:85)

And similarly Qur’an calls Prophet Salih, the brother of the people of Thamud. It says;

"And unto Thamud (We sent) their brother Salih." (Al-Qur’an 11:61)

In both these examples it is never meant that the Prophets were the real brothers of the each and every person of that tribe. It’s only way to address them. It means that Shu'aib was a (male) person from the people of Midian and similarly Salih from the people of Thamud.

So in the very same manner when Qur’an describes Mary, the mother of Christ as 'Sister of Aaron', It means that she is being referred to as a (female) person from the people, the lineage of Prophet Aaron.
This is infact an Arabic idiom, a way to address. In Arabia a person from the tribe Banu Mudhar may be addressed as Ya Akha Mudhar, meaning 'O the brother of Mudhar'.

The Prophetic answer to this question:

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Aaron", whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: “The (people of the old age) used to call names (of their persons) after the names of the Prophets and pious persons who had gone before them.” (Sahih Muslim, Book on General Behaviour, Hadith 3962)

The Holy Prophet (PBUH) meant to say that Mary’s relationship with Prophet Aaron was mentioned because she was of his lineage for among Semites it was common to associate a person with his lineage.

This fits the context as well. The people thought that Mary had done something unworthy of a chaste woman and thus as they rebuked her, they first made a reference to her noble ancestry and then testified that even her own father was no wicked person (verse 28).

Observations from the Bible:

1- One thing we need to consider is that Qur’an does not call Mary ‘Sister of Moses’ but ‘Sister of Aaron’.

2- Aaron (PBUH) we know was the first in line for the Israelite priesthood.

3- New Testament clearly tells us that Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist (PBUH) was from the lineage of Aaron (Luke 1:5). Also it tells that Mary was a cousin of Elizabeth (1:36). Therefore we can easily call them both ‘Sisters of Aaron’ i.e. from the lineage of Aaron.

4- Infact we have evidence of the similar usage from the Bible. In Genesis 13:8 Abraham and Lot are called brothers while certainly they did not come from loins of one individual. It reads;

“And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.”

A certain Christian commentator, Adam Clarke says in his commentary to this verse;


‘[It means] we are of the same family, worship the same God in the same way, have the same promises, and look for the same end.’

Was the same not true in case of Mary and Aaron? Were they both not from the same priestly family and of same faith?

So the conclusion is that this is only a beautiful way of expression in the Arabic language and to try to twist it some other way speaks only of ones inner wickedness and that’s all!

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

RagnarLodbrok:
First verse in the sequence, clearly this speaks on Angels giving good tidings to Mary, does it not?



Continuation of the good tidings from Angels.


Now here you claimed she was having a discussion with the Angel, lol! When did the Angel become her lord? Obviously he isn't, and if they were having a discussion, why didn't she address him? This is because it was after the Angels have already given her the news and were not present she then prayed to Allah after she got curious and an angel was sent.

Again it's quite simple really

malvisguy212:
ok masjid is not a building, what about Al-asqa mosque ? Not a building right ? Keep on believing in lies.

malvisguy212:
I now see your confusion!!! Why Mary called the angel LORD ? That was the first time Mary saw an angel , it must be new to her , take for instance when Moses saw the Glory of God and he thought he had seen God face to face.

Scholar8200:
This is an attempt at clarifying the op; but I need to correct these:

1. Abraham and Lot were both alive; perhaps 30-50 years separated them; there is no where in the Bible that a man or woman will be called brother or sister of one that died more than a millenium ago! The best you can get is son or daughter of a particular patriarch meaning such is a descendant (eg Son of David).If Mary was a descendant of Aaron (which she is not) then the use of sister is a misnomer! Besides, that Mary was called daughter of Amram means the writer was not being metaphorical! There is no where in scripture that an Israelite was called daughter/son of the wife of the patriarch after whose name their tribe was called.

2. Mary was of the tribe of Judah whence was David, not Levi (Aaron)! You may wonder how she became Elizabeth's cousin? Well it was compulsory for the Levites to marry from their tribe but the same did not apply to their women hence Mary's connection to Elizabeth must have arose from the matrilineal side.
In fact the Bible clearly says Mary was of the house of David and even backed it up with a genealogy!

malvisguy212:
better you stay mute than to tell lies.

RagnarLodbrok:
My confusion? Loool! Let's read the first verse in the sequence.

3:45
Sahih International
[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].

Why will she think that these multiple Angels delivering a message from Allah is or are god?

malvisguy212:
you have NO idea what you are saying here, as a matter of fact, when the christians in nijran ask muhammed why he called Mary sister of Aaron ? The answer given by muhammed is even different from what you are saying, muhammed say the people called refers there saint's as "sister" and "brother" but here you are saying different thing . Who are we to believe ? However, there is NO were saint's are reffere to sister or brother, they were only called by SON and DAUGHTER. Your lies is soo embarrassing, are you sure you are a muslim?

RagnarLodbrok:
Uhhhm! I've never known you to this confused. Was lot a biological brother of Abraham or not?

Soooo? When the bible was mentioning the bloodline of jesus did it not at one point give the bloodline of joseph even though he was his adoptive father? They had no connection at all. So someone's matrimonial side used to refer to her nobility is what surprises you? Loooooooolool! . Grow up!

Demmzy15:
Bro don't bother yourself, the guy is just blind. Some of the points he presented here have already been refuted here https://www.nairaland.com/2408973/explanation-wanted

Scholar8200:
The issue here is the use of brother or sister in relating a living person with one who was dead over a milenium ago! Besides, the fact that the op quotes the Quran as saying Mary is a daughter of Amram makes it glaring that the writer did not have the issues you raised in mind! Abraham and Lot were live then so I suggest that we drop the reference to them.

This is not related to the point being clarified; if the tribe of Mary was Levi, there will be a correlation.(After all Mary and Joseph are both from the tribe of Judah and both are also from the house of David). However, Elizabeth was of the tribe of Levi and her husband.
That the Quran uses strong ties of, "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Amram" suggests that the Mary the writer had in mind was 100% of the tribe of Levi, not a secondary link.

RagnarLodbrok:
Looool! I should have known! These sprags and their recycling habit, smh.

I should keep shut from here on then.

RagnarLodbrok:
No, she is the daughter of a noble man imran and she comes from the line of a great noble man as well Aaron, again we can both agree Moses was a holier prophet, but the verse didn't say Moses, it said Aaron. Obviously due to the connection I listed below. Further proof is during the isra and miraj, all the prophets he met excluding Abraham called Muhammad brother. Were they biologically related? Smh



Read what I wrote above. And once again, is the use of a mother's bloodline to attach nobility to a person what's really surprising you?

Scholar8200:
Are you saying that the Imran in question was not Aaron's immediate father?

malvisguy212:
the guy is not making sense at All.

plainbibletruth:
Tell us these:
1. Where did the Quran give the genealogy of Mary?
2. Where is it in that Quran passage that:
" after the Angels have already given her the news and were not present she then prayed to Allah after she got curious and an angel was sent."!
3. If, like you said about the Quran:
"no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah"
How do you now KNOW whether this your INTERPRETATION is "true"?

In a bid to confuse issues you run from the Quran to the Bible but still claim the same Bible you quote is not quite right. 
Why not stick to the Quran and let's see the sense it would make. 

Do you see how you're starting to tie yourself up in knots?

We are beginning to see who the real jester is! 
Aren't we?