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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Three Arguments For God's Existence (100815 Views)
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Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by wiegraf: 6:28pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
MrAnony1: You calling me a liar is arguably worse than joagbaje calling me a bridge salesman My claim: me: here's the post: https://www.nairaland.com/1367214/hell-said-big-bang-evolution/14#17153528 (This current thread is basically part 2 of that one. Again one wonders if the op is amnesic. That thread is probably funnier tho'. One of my favorites) MrAnony: Oya tell me what is responsible for the increase in brain size of those drivers. Bonus points: do it without resorting to a convulted jumble of words which amounts to 'spirit'. No merry-go-rounds please. Thanks. (Uyi in that thread seems to think telekinesis is somehow involved....) Anyhow, I repeat you earlier: is either a dishonest, ill thought attempt at subterfuge, ie cheap sophism, or a case of your not knowing the implications of your garbage, just as is the case with the above. I personally warrant the former option. It's quite silly and I do wonder how you expect to get away with it. Wait first, you even make this statement just now you just now: So wtf where you on about?? And, again, this isn't even the full story in any manner at all. Your case also clearly involves the postulation that this "Mind"-thingie, in DS' words, is capable of existing wholly on its own without any material base, and it being responsible for this universe. This has always been the case. I dey lie?? There's more, but frankly can't be bothered... MrAnony1: ...... 1 Like |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by MrAnony1(m): 7:10pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
wiegraf: Why do you still continue to lie? You said that I claimed that taxi drivers, increase in brain size is due to spirits sending down special beams. I'll ask you again. Please show where I made that claim? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 7:43pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: Many christians do not agree with intelligent design. I feel sorry for you that belief in God has left you in ignorance rather than knowledge |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by wiegraf: 7:58pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
MrAnony1: When you claimed Santa was responsible for their increase in brain size I hope that helps... |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by KingEbukasBlog(m): 7:59pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
AllNaijaBlogger: you are a theistic evolutionist then |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 8:05pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: Something like that. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Kay17: 8:51pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
MrAnony1: Yeah 1 Like |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by MrAnony1(m): 9:31pm On Jul 13, 2015 |
MrAnony1: Kay17: Good. (do you recall my first post on this thread?) A. Since you admit that the universe apparently shows design and hence suggests the existence of a designer but isn't really designed. Then essentially you are saying that design is the obvious observation about the universe though this observation is not accurate. The burden of proof therefore lies on you as you will now have to give us actual reasons to reject what is so apparent to us. So what reasons do you have that convinced you that the universe is not designed despite the fact that it appears designed to you? B. You hold that this apparent design suggests intelligence in any other sense than in the literal sense. What other senses specifically do you mean? Can you give examples to help us understand? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 6:06am On Jul 14, 2015 |
MrAnony1: No I don't since they've been shaped by millions of years of evolution and have helped my ancestors survive so it isn't surprising. How exactly does this lead to your God? MrAnony1: Yes they do. MrAnony1: It would have more computing power and more independent than a GPS device. You didn't answer my question. Is the output from a GPS device information? MrAnony1: You're wrong on that too. There can be more fundamental philosophical reasons to go with my patterns of thought than yours. Yours doesn't become more probable simply because you've made an empty assertion. MrAnony1: Because minds arise and develop as the brain develops. What do you mean when you say minds function through a physical brain? MrAnony1: If you weren't confused, you won't have even formed such a ridiculous notion. MrAnony1: Why aren't the physical laws an acceptable answer? After all, the arrangement of the molecule is determined by those laws and they explain the structures at the molecular level. MrAnony1: Wow. Looks like your problem currently lies with the use of language. A definition of an object is about that object. e.g the definition of a ball is about a ball. That is how you're confused. MrAnony1: davidylan? Suffice? You must be joking. Your problem is with the language and the word "literally". Please look it up. Here's one source. Please tell me if you think your usage makes sense. Dictionarydotcom: MrAnony1: It has everything to do with it given the topic at hand. e.g where did this God come from and what is the direct actual evidence for this God itself since it has a physical body? MrAnony1: You've not made a logical argument and I've shown you that you were wrong and explained that you have assertion the wrong way around. You've not shown how the human conception come before the actual physical objects. MrAnony1: Where you said we should assume he has a body. MrAnony1: Since you say God has a body, then he too is bound by physical laws and would need an explanation of how he came to exist. Secondly, did your God create me specifically? MrAnony1: No. Again what is wrong with you? Do you really have such a poor understanding of simple statements? I asked for your God to reveal himself to me the way my friends have if he wants me to believe he exists. This has no bearing on other human beings since I already know that other human beings exist but not your God. Especially given your acceptance of him having a physical body. Sheesh. 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 6:25am On Jul 14, 2015 |
MrAnony1: Appetite is a desire to eat. What exactly is your point besides definitions of words? MrAnony1: Why exclude hunger pangs? That is an acceptable physical property and should be enough for you to make your point if you have one. So, what exactly is the point you're trying to make? MrAnony1: And here you reveal the fact that you're unable to actually think things through and it looks like I'll have to make you think things through. Hunger pangs are physical contractions. Contractions have the physical property of changes in length. Unless you're saying hunger pangs aren't a physical property or that length isn't a physical property, then you're simply demonstrating that inability of working through clearly stated propositions. MrAnony1: Please explain with some examples. MrAnony1: Oh your God. Hunger pangs describe the contractions the stomach undergoes under certain conditions. Unless you don't think the stomach is matter, then you're very confused. Please tell me, is the stomach matter? Do hunger pangs describe the stomach under those conditions? MrAnony1: What exactly do you mean by you know you're hungry the same way I know my mind? Can you rephrase that? Also, what is the point of putting (according to me)? Don't you agree that the mind is non-physical? Do you mean that hunger pangs are an effect of the mind not the physical body? 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 6:27am On Jul 14, 2015 |
MrAnony1: I ran from davidylan? Please sing his praises. Sure he has superior knowledge. If you have the time, you can ask him about our previous encounters of just scroll through our history together. You can resurrect those topics if you like or ask him to resurrect just the ones where he revealed my fear and his superior knowledge. You've literally made me laugh out loud in my house. 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 6:30am On Jul 14, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: The theory of evolution explains that. KingEbukasBlog: Not all beliefs are created equal. Some beliefs are more veridical than others. 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 6:58am On Jul 14, 2015 |
UyiIredia: Both types are available in nature. UyiIredia: And there are things that are out on the earth that don't exist that way in the body. Does this mean that the earth was specially created? UyiIredia: Let me get this straight. You're saying brains are designed because computers are designed? And that hearts are designed because pumping machines are designed? Two things. 1.The theory of evolution explains why brains and hearts look designed to us in the way man-made objects are. 2. You're making a weak analogy because like I said, hearts and brains function very differently from pumps and computers. If you abstract things enough and stop wherever you want, you can arrive at whatever conclusion you want. e.g the intestines are designed because pipes are designed and they both transport fluids through hollow containers open at both ends. UyiIredia: The theory of evolution explains why intelligence isn't absolutely crucial to designing functional systems. UyiIredia: Actually the degradation of living thing things and corpses is done by other living things. A dead body in space won't decay if it were sterilized and would take a very long time to get decomposed. Just like other natural processes. On the creation of life, the fact that we don't see it happening now is not an argument against it having happened in the past since the environment today is very different from what it used to be. UyiIredia: There are philosophical reasons for not accepting your creator and for favouring natural processes. Secondly, you've not actually shown how your God did what you claim he did. That means you have no evidence showing me how life supernaturally began. If you don't want to accept that, then it isn't surprising that you insist life was created. 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by kingkaspa: 8:56am On Jul 14, 2015 |
davidylan:So your assumed more complex GOD who designed the complex human just popped out of the ground: this is the implication of your statement. 3 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Joshthefirst(m): 9:25am On Jul 14, 2015 |
davien:don't be foolish davien. de·sign note the bolded. contrast is secondary in design recognition. you don't need to contrast an unmade bed with a made one before,ypu realize the made one is in order. Stop using useless 'secondaries' to justify your denial of truth. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:13am On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: KingEbukasBlog: Not all beliefs are created equal. Some beliefs are more veridical than others. Mine is more veridical then Ebuka's beliefs 1. God - exists outside time thus has always existed 2. God, a highly intelligent being , is the creator of all things - gives life a purpose of existence thehomer's beliefs 1. Something came out from nothing and for no reason begot life 2. No purpose of life , things happen naturally for no reason Let me scrutinize the folly of your beliefs with these questions a. Why does man have a complex brain and not other animals b . Why does earth support life and not same for other planets c. Why is there so much disparity in the qualities in man when compared to other animals as regards to these : Social ,Moral , spiritual and habitual behaviour d. How on earth can life spring up from inorganic matter e. If man evolved from the ancestors of apes- homoerectus , hompsapien ; can you list the evidence of ancestry of monkeys (in the same family as man ) f. Why didnt other animals evolve to be highly intelligent as man , since man evolved from the lowest possible level of intelligence e. Look at plants , trees - so nature felt there is a need to feed the animals or was it some mistake too ? et cetera |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by davien(m): 1:41pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
Joshthefirst:I admit to have been fooling around with creationists here but lets get serious(who knows,your answers may make me a creationist ) With that definition would it be safe to say everything in the universe has a purpose? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 4:30pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: And the body uses only one type. Neither is there any natural process that explains how that type was selected for. thehomer: This doesn't address my point. The body synthesizes proteins, we know of no natural process that does such. thehomer: The evolutionary explanation for how brains and hearts came to be is poor. Hearts and brains have similar functions to pumps and computers and work on the same principles I earlier stated. You also ignored my point on nanotech and genetic engineering feats which are more similar to living systems in their scale and manner of operating. Again, so far as it is a given that intelligence is crucial to designing the sort of systems see in life the inference to design is justified. thehomer: It doesn't. The theory of evolution is highly flawed at best and total crap at worst. thehomer: Heat, chemicals and radiation also degrade the body. Special pleading for a different environment doesn't help your case, such environments would still face the problems of synthesis and organization I stated. In fact, the absence of life in other planets and moons with different environments supports this point. thehomer: This doesn't remove the fact that you hold a position totally devoid of evidence by your own admission. As for the evidence for design, that's what you failed to sispute earlier. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 4:47pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: davidylan said QUITE literally. You missed that part. While your DNA can't do everything you do, it is a fact that everything you can do is because of your DNA. thehomer: The president can be a different person, Buhari can't. thehomer: The DNA is the basis on which these factors affect a person. This is why different people respond differently to the same environment. thehomer: What's the evidence for this ? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 4:51pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
davien: It's not intellectually honest if the only explanation you are 'finding out' is one that excludes God and is materialistic. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 4:54pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: This doesn't answer the question. We already know L-isomers are of a given shape. The problem is what is responsible for making such proteins in the body only L-isomers despite the presence of both isomers naturally. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 4:57pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
@thehomer, kay17, kingebukasblog..
Una come here dey debate for oga davidylan back abi? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 5:01pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
anicheibo: This just goes to show how ignorant you are of the intelligent design theory. What you've described is creationism NOT intelligent design. ID only infers an 'intelligent agent' nothing more. In fact, the theory as it is framed doesn't rule out the possibility that life evolved from a common ancestor (a proposition I find ridiculous), what's in dispute is the mechanism by which it could happen. |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by davien(m): 8:56pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
UyiIredia:How can i exclude "god" when the very premise of it's existence is not upon me to prove? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 9:03pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: huh? In what book did you read that? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 9:05pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
jayriginal: Its a valid question... if i asked you why you think otherwise, you would not be able to say. You're basically relying on appealing to authority here... The question really is this - if macro evolution is true, where are the transition species? |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:01pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: How do you know this? And what is your evidence for this claim? KingEbukasBlog: How do you know this? KingEbukasBlog: The same reason why elephants have trunks and not other animals. Why would you say man has a more complex brain? KingEbukasBlog: Because the conditions on earth are suitable for life. Why would you say the earth supports life? KingEbukasBlog: The same reason why there are disparities in qualities in elephants when compared to other animals with regards to size, trunk and tusks. And what is your explanation for the disparity? KingEbukasBlog: I don't know how it happened. How would you say it happened? KingEbukasBlog: Humans are apes. The evidence lies in multiple fields including biogeography, biochemistry, comparative anatomy and genetics. How would you say man evolved? And how would you explain fossils? KingEbukasBlog: The same reason why other animals didn't evolve to use trunks as well as elephants can. Why didn't other animals evolve to use trunks as well as elephants can? KingEbukasBlog: Look at the sun. I guess nature felt there was a need to feed plants. Why did God create plants before the sun? 1 Like |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:12pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
UyiIredia: So what? UyiIredia: The body does not fuse hydrogen and we know of natural processes that do this. What is your point? UyiIredia: The evolutionary explanation makes the most sense. You say they work on the same principles. Well computers work by switching transistors. Is that how the brain works? The heart pumps blood by contraction of myocytes. Is that how pumps work? I ignored that talk about nanotech because it is no better than your talk about pumps and computers. Well the theory of evolution reveals that intelligence isn't needed so your inference is unjustified. UyiIredia: Well go ahead and present a better testable theory. UyiIredia: How did I commit the fallacy of special pleading? You spoke about degradation and I pointed out the problem with that. Absence of life on inhospitable planets supports what point? UyiIredia: I already said there are philosophical reasons for not accepting your assertion. Actually your current position still lacks evidence. You've merely made the usual bad argument from analogy. 1 Like |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:18pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: I'm not sure how fossils explain evolution... infact they do disprove evolution considering you still cant find transitory forms. I'm still waiting for your response on how you can survive without your dna for a few hours before death. Never heard of such in my life... |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:20pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
thehomer: Not really... outside of evolution, there is no other serious speculation on the origin of species. So how does one thing make the most sense when its the only idea available? Secondly, for all the noise about evolution, how does it explain the very origin of man? 2 Likes |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:23pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
UyiIredia: That is not how you use the word "literally". Look it up. A human being cannot literally be a DNA molecule. UyiIredia: What is it that the Nigerian president can do right now that General Buhari cannot do? UyiIredia: Well the environment is the basis on which the DNA acts that way. UyiIredia: Severe exposure to radiation. Even with the burns, the victims don't die immediately. 1 Like |
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:24pm On Jul 14, 2015 |
UyiIredia: The tertiary and quaternary structures of the amino-acid chains. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? 1 Like |
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