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Three Arguments For God's Existence - Religion (30) - Nairaland

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Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:25pm On Jul 14, 2015
timonski:
@thehomer, kay17, kingebukasblog..
Una come here dey debate for oga davidylan back abi?

davidylan knows where I'm at.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:27pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


huh? In what book did you read that?

Don't need a book when you understand how DNA is supposed to work and realize that death won't be instantaneous. There are many other things that can kill you faster than magically losing your DNA instantaneously. I hope you know that it is a hypothetical question.

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:27pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


The tertiary and quaternary structures of the amino-acid chains. What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

A very simple and logical point that biologists have never been able to figure out - how is it that the human cell is virtually only capable of making the L-amino acid but not the D-forms even though small amounts of the simplest D-forms are made in nature? What was the evolutionary driver for this specificity?

What does the tertiary and quaternary structures of polypeptide chains to do with the question? I'm as confused as anyone else as it seems you're responding to the question with a totally different response that doesnt make sense.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:30pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


Its a valid question... if i asked you why you think otherwise, you would not be able to say. You're basically relying on appealing to authority here...

The question really is this - if macro evolution is true, where are the transition species?

In the ground and in museums.
If you understand one of the basic premises of the theory of evolution, you'll realize that the question flawed.

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:31pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


How do you know this? And what is your evidence for this claim?





How do you know this?

Because something cant come from nothing


The same reason why elephants have trunks and not other animals.

So what is the reason ?

Why would you say man has a more complex brain?

This is rhetorical , obviously



Because the conditions on earth are suitable for life. Why would you say the earth supports life?

So why arent these conditions present in other planets ?



The same reason why there are disparities in qualities in elephants when compared to other animals with regards to size, trunk and tusks.

Again , what is this reason

And what is your explanation for the disparity?

Again, another obvious rhetorical question


I don't know how it happened. How would you say it happened?

"Supernatural intervention "



Humans are apes. The evidence lies in multiple fields including biogeography, biochemistry, comparative anatomy and genetics. How would you say man evolved? And how would you explain fossils?

Fossils are no evidence of evolution . Again , can you list the evidence of ancestry of monkeys ? Cos you didnt answer my question cool



The same reason why other animals didn't evolve to use trunks as well as elephants can. Why didn't other animals evolve to use trunks as well as elephants can?

So what is that reason ?



Look at the sun. I guess nature felt there was a need to feed plants. Why did God create plants before the sun?

God created the sun billions of years ago . Apparently , you have no basic knowledge of God undecided
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:32pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


Don't need a book when you understand how DNA is supposed to work and realize that death won't be instantaneous. There are many other things that can kill you faster than magically losing your DNA instantaneously. I hope you know that it is a hypothetical question.

You have basically danced around the fact that you made a baseless claim... how can you survive without DNA? That is virtually impossible as DNA is the very basis for existence at all... i mean how does the cell work without the necessary machinery since DNA does not exist? tRNA basically has to be transcribed from DNA... so how exactly do you form amino acids/peptide chains necessary for life without DNA?

Have you ever even seen a cell without DNA? Is that possible? How is it possible that an entire human can get rid of their DNA and still survive? The amount of head scratching idiocy here is amazing.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:34pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


In the ground and in museums.
If you understand one of the basic premises of the theory of evolution, you'll realize that the question flawed.

They are not there so please spare us the false sarcasm. If they are in the ground, how do you know? Why have we found billions of fossils of fully evolved organisms from billions of years ago but always have to scramble for excuses when it comes to transitional forms?
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:34pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


I'm not sure how fossils explain evolution... infact they do disprove evolution considering you still cant find transitory forms.

I'll tell you. Fossils show that there were different species living in earlier times and that current species weren't present in those times. The fossils are some samples of the "transitional forms" we've found. How would you explain fossils? You didn't answer that question.

davidylan:

I'm still waiting for your response on how you can survive without your dna for a few hours before death. Never heard of such in my life...

I know you haven't since you're waiting for it to be written in a book. Yet you moan about people searching through Wikipedia while asking people to think for themselves. I thought you knew something about DNA and biology. How long do you think someone would survive if their DNA suddenly disappeared?

2 Likes

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:38pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


Not really... outside of evolution, there is no other serious speculation on the origin of species. So how does one thing make the most sense when its the only idea available?

Because that is how science works. Don't forget it used to be the case that people thought God did it all or that species sprung up from the ground. The fact that modern science is so convincing isn't a bug, it is a feature and I mean this seriously.

davidylan:

Secondly, for all the noise about evolution, how does it explain the very origin of man?

Man arose from other animals. How would you say man arose?

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:39pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


I'll tell you. Fossils show that there were different species living in earlier times and that current species weren't present in those times. The fossils are some samples of the "transitional forms" we've found. How would you explain fossils? You didn't answer that question.

Because the question is a silly cop-out. The problem is not that fossils exist but that CERTAIN KEY TYPES OF FOSSILS do not. Fossils are very well explainable - we have fossilized forms of fully evolved organisms from billions of years ago... but if evolution were true, then we should also be able to find fossilized forms of pre-humans for example in the fossilized record. Where are they?

thehomer:

I know you haven't since you're waiting for it to be written in a book. Yet you moan about people searching through Wikipedia while asking people to think for themselves. I thought you knew something about DNA and biology. How long do you think someone would survive if their DNA suddenly disappeared?

I asked because it is virtually impossible for a cell to exist without its DNA. This is a silly argument and your intransigence and unwillingness to accept that when it comes to biology, you only have google to go off of is the problem. if you remove DNA from a cell... it just ceases to exist period... we did that routinely in the lab and there is verifiable evidence.

Besides, how does DNA just suddenly disappear? That is virtually unheard off and you will win a nobel prize for medicine if you can figure out how to engineer a DNA-less cell. You have billions of cells at any time in your body - including stem cells - how can you suddenly lose all your DNA? Absurd. Even viruses, hydra, amoeba... all have DNA... that's how stupi.d you sound at this point.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:41pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:

Man arose from other animals. How would you say man arose?

and those other animals arose from where? I assume that you can no longer understand the term "origin"?
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 10:42pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


A very simple and logical point that biologists have never been able to figure out - how is it that the human cell is virtually only capable of making the L-amino acid but not the D-forms even though small amounts of the simplest D-forms are made in nature? What was the evolutionary driver for this specificity?

What does the tertiary and quaternary structures of polypeptide chains to do with the question? I'm as confused as anyone else as it seems you're responding to the question with a totally different response that doesnt make sense.

These sorts of questions are what make me question your multiple assertions of having some knowledge of biology. Humans only use certain isomers because the proteins they produce only use those isomers. Those proteins have certain active areas that are exposed and the exposure depends on how those proteins fold. The isomers that aren't used cannot physically fit into the proteins to get in contact with the active areas in order to react.

Again I have to ask. What is the point of this question? How does this mean your God had anything to do with anything?

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:45pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


[size=16pt]Man arose from other animals.[/size] How would you say man arose?

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 10:47pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:

These sorts of questions are what make me question your multiple assertions of having some knowledge of biology. Humans only use certain isomers because the proteins they produce only use those isomers. Those proteins have certain active areas that are exposed and the exposure depends on how those proteins fold. The isomers that aren't used cannot physically fit into the proteins to get in contact with the active areas in order to react.

Again I have to ask. What is the point of this question? How does this mean your God had anything to do with anything?

We are playing musical chairs at this point and you're doing the classical answering a question based on the answer. I asked the key question which you pretended to ignore... what was the evolutionary driver to use only the L-isomers but not the D-isomers? If humans evolved, it means they obviously evolved the mechanism to produce both isomers at one point but gradually lost the ability to do so - the problem is that there is zero evidence that this ever occurred at any time... another problem is that we have not been able to get even the most rudimentary single-celled organisms to both produce and use D-isomers... why?

Those are critical questions - just hopping around and trying to question credibility when you find yourself in a bind is a complete waste of time. I get paid to be a scientist, you read off google... big difference.

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Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 11:00pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


So what?



The body does not fuse hydrogen and we know of natural processes that do this. What is your point?

This is yet another example of your wilful ignorance. If natural processes can't effect proteins or L-isomers only then they're incapable of making life.

thehomer:
The evolutionary explanation makes the most sense. You say they work on the same principles. Well computers work by switching transistors. Is that how the brain works? The heart pumps blood by contraction of myocytes. Is that how pumps work? I ignored that talk about nanotech because it is no better than your talk about pumps and computers. Well the theory of evolution reveals that intelligence isn't needed so your inference is unjustified.

Neurons get turned on and off like transistors. Artificial hearts also contract. Nanotech and genetic engineering feats are more similar to living systems in scale and manner of operation. It shouldn't be ignored.

thehomer:
Well go ahead and present a better testable theory.

I don't need to present a better theory to show evolution is crap. The theory must be analyzed on its own merit not on the merit of another theory.

thehomer:
How did I commit the fallacy of special pleading? You spoke about degradation and I pointed out the problem with that. Absence of life on inhospitable planets supports what point?

You just asserted a different environment could have organized life. You made no arguments supporting that assertion. If natural processes didn't cause life on many other planets with different environments, then there's a reason to doubt such happened on early earth, moreso given the fact that extreme heat and radiation would have killed of any life that presumably evolved.

thehomer:
I already said there are philosophical reasons for not accepting your assertion. Actually your current position still lacks evidence. You've merely made the usual bad argument from analogy.

Again evading the point. If you have no evidence for how life could arise naturally then you have no basis to assert it did. There's nothing wrong with an argument by analogy, in fact evolutionists use it when they point to similarities in DIFFERENT species to assert a common ancestry. I argue that similarities in human inventions and living systems are a basis to infer creation since human inventions were made via their intellect.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 11:02pm On Jul 14, 2015
KingEbukasBlog:
.

Lol ! The guy's case is serious.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:03pm On Jul 14, 2015
KingEbukasBlog:


Because something cant come from nothing

Who says nothing was ever the state of things?

KingEbukasBlog:

So what is the reason ?

They evolved that way.

KingEbukasBlog:

This is rhetorical , obviously

Well mine is an actual question. Please answer.

KingEbukasBlog:

So why arent these conditions present in other planets ?

Please answer my question.

KingEbukasBlog:

Again , what is this reason

They evolved that way.

KingEbukasBlog:

Again, another obvious rhetorical question

I want an actual answer. Please answer.

KingEbukasBlog:

"Supernatural intervention "

So the fairies dancing round toadstools did it?

KingEbukasBlog:

Fossils are no evidence of evolution . Again , can you list the evidence of ancestry of monkeys ? Cos you didnt answer my question cool

Fossils are one line of evidence for evolution. I just gave you multiple lines of evidence. How would you say man evolved? And how would you explain fossils? Besides, what is the point of this question.

KingEbukasBlog:

So what is that reason ?

They evolved that way. I notice that you didn't answer my question.

KingEbukasBlog:

God created the sun billions of years ago . Apparently , you have no basic knowledge of God undecided

Why did God create plants before the sun? Do you have advanced knowledge of God?

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 11:05pm On Jul 14, 2015
UyiIredia:

I don't need to present a better theory to show evolution is crap. The theory must be analyzed on its own merit not on the merit of another theory.

The hypocritical part of that is atheists have never needed a sound scientific alternative to laugh at ID. I mean anicheibo, davien and others were quite happy to say "i dont know" when we asked for a sound scientific alternative to ID even though they felt ID was baseless...

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 11:06pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:

Fossils are one line of evidence for evolution. I just gave you multiple lines of evidence. How would you say man evolved? And how would you explain fossils? Besides, what is the point of this question.

they are not... how many times do we have to go through this musical chairs you keep playing?
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:07pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


You have basically danced around the fact that you made a baseless claim... how can you survive without DNA? That is virtually impossible as DNA is the very basis for existence at all... i mean how does the cell work without the necessary machinery since DNA does not exist? tRNA basically has to be transcribed from DNA... so how exactly do you form amino acids/peptide chains necessary for life without DNA?

Have you ever even seen a cell without DNA? Is that possible? How is it possible that an entire human can get rid of their DNA and still survive? The amount of head scratching idiocy here is amazing.

Are you this stupid, are you drunk or are you merely pretending to be this dense? I said you would die but it won't be instantaneous. It won't be as rapid as if you've been decapitated you stupid buffoon. The brain doesn't multiply rapidly. Neither do the heart and lungs. The cellular machinery like the ion pumps and cell membrane would still work for a while if all your DNA magically disappeared instantaneously.

Seriously just where and for how long did you study biology? Or did those chemicals permanently damage your brain?

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Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by jayriginal: 11:07pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


Its a valid question... if i asked you why you think otherwise, you would not be able to say. You're basically relying on appealing to authority here...

The question really is this - if macro evolution is true, where are the transition species?

David, its valid? Really? You still say this?

Well Ok then. I'm no scientist, so humour me for a while. Now, you're on record as saying there's no macro evolution but theres micro evolution (which you dub mutation). I think so far, I represent your position.


Now, if you will humour me, lets say a mutation occurs, which allows an individual of a specie to gain an advantage over the other members of the species. Let's say that individual passes on those mutated genes to its offspring, and other less advantaged (mutated) members of the species die off (slowly).

Let's say our mutant and its offspring keep passing those advantageous genes, eventually what is likely to happen? Isn't it likely that the mutant and its descendants become more populous among the species?

Do you agree thus far?

You'll probably say that mutations are generally harmful but would you say there are no beneficial mutations?

What say ye?

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by davien(m): 11:09pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


The hypocritical part of that is atheists have never needed a sound scientific alternative to laugh at ID. I mean anicheibo, davien and others were quite happy to say "i dont know" when we asked for a sound scientific alternative to ID even though they felt ID was baseless...
How is having an alternative necessary before pointing out baseless things.... aristotelian theory of gravity was baseless long before newtons' came along.... .
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:10pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


They are not there so please spare us the false sarcasm. If they are in the ground, how do you know? Why have we found billions of fossils of fully evolved organisms from billions of years ago but always have to scramble for excuses when it comes to transitional forms?

Because we've been digging them up for centuries now. Have you been living in a cave? You do realize that there are transitional forms. Simply go to a museum and ask to see them if you find it too hard to locate them in their displays.

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by jayriginal: 11:14pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


Its a valid question... if i asked you why you think otherwise, you would not be able to say. You're basically relying on appealing to authority here...

The question really is this - if macro evolution is true, where are the transition species?

Oh and I can answer otherwise.

The theory of evolution doesn't say we evolved from "monkeys" neither does it say the goal of evolution is to become human.

David!

#apes

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by Nobody: 11:16pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


Are you this stupid, are you drunk or are you merely pretending to be this dense? I said you would die but it won't be instantaneous. It won't be as rapid as if you've been decapitated you stupid buffoon. The brain doesn't multiply rapidly. Neither do the heart and lungs. The cellular machinery like the ion pumps and cell membrane would still work for a while if all your DNA magically disappeared instantaneously.

Seriously just where and for how long did you study biology? Or did those chemicals permanently damage your brain?

that's virtually impossible. Ion pumps and the cell membrane are proteins that are constantly in flux - how do they work for hours if your DNA vanished? The ion pumps require ATP to function... if you have no DNA, your mitochondria cant function... if mitochondria cant function, you have no ATP... so i ask, outside of passive channels which require no ATP, how does an ion PUMP work? Liposomes are an example of vesicles with bilayer cell membranes - they have no DNA or other cellular organelles to speak off and would be the most relevant example of a cell without DNA. You should note that a liposome has ZERO function other than as a vehicle for drug delivery.

Perhaps you should do a bit more thinking and less wasteful, immature blustering. You've been caught lying and basically have to use bravado to cover.

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by UyiIredia(m): 11:20pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


That is not how you use the word "literally". Look it up. A human being cannot literally be a DNA molecule.

Yes a human been is not literally a DNA molecule. But it can be said to be humans are QUITE literally their DNA.

thehomer:
What is it that the Nigerian president can do right now that General Buhari cannot do?

Nothing.

thehomer:
Well the environment is the basis on which the DNA acts that way.

No, the DNA dictates the terms on which the environment affects an organism.
The DNA is the basis on which an organism is built and that determines how it responds to environmental factors.

thehomer:
Severe exposure to radiation. Even with the burns, the victims don't die immediately.

You're mistaken. Excessive radiation doesn't completely erase an organisms DNA, in fact, it doesn't affect it much, the article I post below explains that.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/research/reports/ACHRE/intro_9_5.html

Besides, some organisms like waterbears survive in excess radiation.

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:21pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


Because the question is a silly cop-out. The problem is not that fossils exist but that CERTAIN KEY TYPES OF FOSSILS do not. Fossils are very well explainable - we have fossilized forms of fully evolved organisms from billions of years ago... but if evolution were true, then we should also be able to find fossilized forms of pre-humans for example in the fossilized record. Where are they?

Fossilization is a rare process and we have found lots of human fossils. Again, go to museums to see the ones that have been dug up. As usual, Wikipedia has a paragraph in its long article on human evolution. See here.

davidylan:

I asked because it is virtually impossible for a cell to exist without its DNA. This is a silly argument and your intransigence and unwillingness to accept that when it comes to biology, you only have google to go off of is the problem. if you remove DNA from a cell... it just ceases to exist period... we did that routinely in the lab and there is verifiable evidence.

There are cells that function for months without DNA so please just stop with your foolish ignorance of biology. You must be a proper fool to say that removing DNA from a cell makes it stop existing. I'm very sure you did nothing of the sort in the lab. This is why I have to conclude that you're lying about your lab experience.

davidylan:

Besides, how does DNA just suddenly disappear? That is virtually unheard off and you will win a nobel prize for medicine if you can figure out how to engineer a DNA-less cell. You have billions of cells at any time in your body - including stem cells - how can you suddenly lose all your DNA? Absurd. Even viruses, hydra, amoeba... all have DNA... that's how stupi.d you sound at this point.

You are are one of the most stupid and idiotic people I've ever met online and I've met quite a few idiots. Why don't you go back and read what I actually wrote? I told you it was a hypothetical and I answered based on that assumption. Did you not see my references to magic and instantaneous DNA disappearance? Or did you read all this and say wow thehomer is talking about what he did in his secret lab to impress the foolish davidylan. Just go to sleep you daft slowpoke.

2 Likes

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:21pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


and those other animals arose from where? I assume that you can no longer understand the term "origin"?

You did not answer my question. How would you say man arose?

1 Like

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by davien(m): 11:22pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan...

Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by thehomer: 11:24pm On Jul 14, 2015
davidylan:


We are playing musical chairs at this point and you're doing the classical answering a question based on the answer. I asked the key question which you pretended to ignore... what was the evolutionary driver to use only the L-isomers but not the D-isomers? If humans evolved, it means they obviously evolved the mechanism to produce both isomers at one point but gradually lost the ability to do so - the problem is that there is zero evidence that this ever occurred at any time... another problem is that we have not been able to get even the most rudimentary single-celled organisms to both produce and use D-isomers... why?

Those are critical questions - just hopping around and trying to question credibility when you find yourself in a bind is a complete waste of time. I get paid to be a scientist, you read off google... big difference.

Why should the fact that humans evolved mean that they have to use both isomers? Really just because you're ignorant about basic biology and try to cover it up by throwing about stupid questions that undergraduate biochemistry students won't doesn't make you smart. What you're calling a critical question just serves as evidence of your lies about your expertise.
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:26pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:


Who says nothing was ever the state of things?

So what was "the state of things"



They evolved that way.

So , why did they evolve that way ?


Well mine is an actual question. Please answer.

Man is created in God's image . Our abilities to think , reason , decide , moral behaviour , communicate etc are all a reflection of His abilities - as seen in the bible .


I want an actual answer. Please answer.

You answered the question



So the fairies dancing round toadstools did it?

so something came out from nothing ?

Fossils are one line of evidence for evolution. I just gave you multiple lines of evidence. How would you say man evolved?
I'm not an evolutionist

And how would you explain fossils?

The giant leatherback sea turtle is a only living species in the genus Dermochelys and family Dermochelyidae , assuming it died 400 million years ago , there would be claims that our present turtles evolved from it .

Besides, what is the point of this question.

Monkeys come from the same family as man , if man has an ancestral line -homoerectus etc- why shouldn't monkeys ? Can you provide details of monkey's ancestral line or evolutionary phases .



They evolved that way. I notice that you didn't answer my question.

God did it Am a christian .. remember


Why did God create plants before the sun?

Ive already answered that question


Do you have advanced knowledge of God?

What standards do you think should be attained before one acquire an advanced knowledge of God
Re: Three Arguments For God's Existence by jayriginal: 11:27pm On Jul 14, 2015
thehomer:



You are are one of the most stupid and idiotic people I've ever met online and I've met quite a few idiots.

Where's my umbrella!

Gaddem grin

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