₦airaland Forum

I didn't want to comment, but now I'm being provoked to. I don't judge or won't say Jw are bad or their doctrines are wrong, if you say its good for you, then it is. but one thing is for sure, if you don't believe that Jesus and God are one, then you are an Antichrist. you ain't his witness you are his weakness. choose ye today whom you will serve. as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord, who is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. the bright morning star, the first and the last, he who created the heaven and earth, and no one created him. bow before this maker, acknowledge him and worship him for he is God.

alexis:
Ganoderma



Angels don't come to us as the savior of the world or represent God as His incarnate; that is what I mean



I asked you, do you believe Jesus is an angel of some sort. Jehovah Witnesses confirm that Jesus is an Arch Angel = http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel-jesus/. This will throw light unto this discussion because Christians don't believe that Jesus is an angel or arch angel. There is no where in the Bible, Jesus is called an angel



I don't disagree with this and I agreed. Angels can manifest as humans when required and perform actions that humans do but Angels where never born with a human body. Angels don't resurrected, angels don't come back from the dead. These things happen only in human bodies which don't apply to Angels.



Luke 24:39 = Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Here is Jesus saying that he is not a spirit. From this passage, where did you gather that He is a Spirit. That is what I mean when you read a passage in context. Read the entire chapter and tell me where it suggest that Jesus rose as a Spirit creature and compare that to verse 39 where Jesus himself said He is not a Spirit or Angel or Spirit creature



The expression "flesh and blood" occurs only five times in the New Testament. We need to define our definition of its meaning from the overall teachings. If we examine the following references we see the writers are often speaking of "flesh and blood" as being synonymous with "fallen man", just as it is of the physical body. If you substitute the words "fallen man" (unregenerate) in the place of "flesh and blood" we can understand better what the writer is saying:

Sometimes the word for flesh (sarx) is used literally (as in Heb.10:20) Sometimes it is used in a figurative manner as in Rom.8:9 (you are not in the flesh but the Spirit). Meaning the new nature rules over the old.

Matthew 16:13-17: "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee but my Father who is in heaven." Is this speaking of the physical flesh, or the corrupt nature of man not revealing Christ's identity to Peter? It came from God who is Spirit.

Galatians 1:16: Straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood.... “ Obviously Paul was not referring to the physical flesh but rather to corrupt and sinful man.

Ephesians 6:12: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood. "A case can be made either way in the interpretation of this text. For instance, because Christians do not physically wrestle with their opposition. Paul is not be referring to the physical body, we don't wrestle against sinful corrupt nature of other men but the spiritual forces of evil influencing him.

Hebrews 2:14:, "For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same. . . "Here the text does refer to the physical flesh but Jesus did not take on Himself a sinful nature. It means he became a human having the same physical flesh and blood minus the sin nature. As Rom.8:3 says Jesus came in the "likeness of sinful flesh", in other words he was fully man, he looked like any other but without the sin. The word for flesh used here refers to mankind in their fallen state (the body of flesh).

When speaking of sinful man who consists of flesh and blood he cannot enter the kingdom of God without a new birth. [b]John.3:3-5 Jesus explains that a fallen man cannot enter God's kingdom without being spiritually regenerated, he will not even see the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 15:50 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. "The Apostle Paul turns to the subject of transformation of the body not the soul. The body that we now possess is not suitable for the heavenly kingdom. It is corrupted, subject to disease, and decays. Only that which is pure, incorruptible and immortal can enter heaven, this is why there must be a change. Paul is answering the question of what kind of "body" believers will receive in the resurrection (vs. 35). It will be a "spiritual body" (vs. 44). A "spiritual body" must be defined by the ONLY example we have of one, the first fruits from the dead, the body of Jesus. He described his body as one of flesh and bone, (possibly bloodless) (Lk.24:39). The resurrection body has no need of blood as its life because its nature will not be the same. Presently the blood nourishes the cells that are in need of constant repair but food and water to supply nourishment will no longer be needed. No cells will be in need of repair in our glorified bodies so we will no longer need blood. As it states in Revelation we will neither hunger or thirst. We can eat but not from necessity. We will still have our body and its functions but obviously some things will change.

In verses 51-52, Paul then proceeds to tell us a mystery which involves the change that all believers will go through, The corruptible will put on in-corruption, and mortality will become immortality. We need to have a complete change to make us suitable for our new environment. This implies a conversion of our same physical bodies to a body with heavenly qualities. Nature does not know extinction but transformation, as science says energy cannot be destroyed but transformed.

Paul states that their dead body is sown and will be resurrected to new life. God has it become a new body (1Cor.15:38). The old body puts on (is swallowed up) by the new body it is transformed into something permanent.

The Jehovah's Witnesses make the same mistake the disciples did even with the Bible in their hands to correct them. Jesus' grave was empty with only the linens left. There are no Scriptures used to validate a spirit resurrection rather than a bodily one. Nowhere does Jesus say I'm spirit instead he makes it clear he is flesh and bone. Some of the discrepancies that people often use to support this position are found in the Emmaus road encounter where the disciples did not recognize Jesus. We need to realize that they were in a state of distress, shock, fear, and unbelief of His resurrection. This became apparent after he revealed himself to them. Luke 24:16 in the beginning of his encounter tells us that “their eyes were restrained so they did not know Him.” This possibly could refer to the fact that Jesus was not revealing himself to them because of their unbelief even after they were testified to His resurrection by the women. So he was trying to draw them into faith, as he states in v. 25. “O foolish ones and slow of heart to believe in all the prophets have spoken.” In verses 30-31 He blessed and broke bread with them, and then “their eyes were opened and they knew Him.” This event opened their eyes. Jesus broke bread many times with them, at the feeding of the 5,000 he broke bread in prayer. The last night they spent with Jesus he broke bread and gave the true meaning of the Passover. V.35 when they arrived with the disciples they told the story of his resurrection and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Whether this is a natural or supernatural explanation for their inability to recognize Him, one thing is for sure, it was not because He was a spirit or raised in a completely different body.

The Jehovah's Witnesses make the same mistake that Jesus corrected the disciples on. In Luke 24:39 The Disciples are terrified thinking they saw a Ghost. Jesus calms them down and said, “I am not a spirit but I have flesh and bone (not blood, so here is the answer to flesh and blood not able to enter heaven). One thing that is clear is that it was not because he did not have a body. He had the same scars in His hands and feet proving His fulfillment of the prophecy that He would raise up His body from the grave (John 2:19-22). A spirit does not scar. He shows them the scars saying it is I, myself. He then eats with them to prove it. Once again He repeats what was said on the Emaus road Luke 24:44. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” Vs.45-46 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day” Just as Paul states in 1 Cor.15:1-4 as the scripture says.

Also resurrection accounts show that people were raised in their physical bodies. Two examples are Lazarus (Luke 11), and Jairus' daughter. Jesus also rose from the dead in the flesh (Luke 24:39; Acts 2:31; 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7). Numerous times they were told to eat proving it was a physical resurrection and that the body needed immediate nourishment.



Actually it does - The Bible say when some of the disciples went to the tomb, His body wasn't there. If indeed Jesus was raised as a Spirit, wouldn't His body be there?



Dude, read my response above



Sound reasoning and logic! Are you kidding me? - Here is a person who claims Jesus is a Spirit even after Jesus Himself confirming He is not a Spirit. If you use reason and logic, you will realize that we interpret scripture based on what is revealed as compared to what is inferred.



I can only answer that question if you tell me who Jesus is . Please respond to the points I raised.

Also, you still keep ignoring my question - what did Jesus tell his disciples that He is not a Spirit if infact He was as you claim?

At the moment, I do not want to intrude in ur discussion, but ill like to ask: using scripture as backup, pls what is the soul.?

EVILFOREST:
I WITNESS JEHOVAH but am not a member.
I LOVE them so much because,
---Of all the CHRISTAIN denominations....
They are the MOST Enlightened, Educated, Exposed.
It is usually difficult to SPOT the Illiterates among them.

They train their KIDS to be resourceful in future
They are good at PUBLIC SPEAKING.
They dress modest.
They rarely give in, to the changes of the new age.

They study the BIBLE more than any other denomination

And what is the bases of this claim?.

Above all they have the BEST EVANGELISM network, involving both the rich and the poor. (youngest and oldest)

That's not true, the baptists and catholics have the best network, their numbers speaks for them.

By the way, TEL-Evangelism is the best and most effective method.

Their CLERGYMEN talk cautiously, unlike many others who talk back at the congregation carelessly

How do you mean?? Am tempted to criticize your claim, considering the content of vitrol in watchtowers literature, towards other christain groups.

Never MONEY driven nor conscious.

I always entertained them right from my CHILDHOOD and I have learnt a lot.
I just wish I can worship GOD, the way they do.
MOST times I feel ashamed as a christain when I see them.
I see them as CHRISTAIN EXTREMISTS.
I hope to pay them a visit soonest.

I Love them.

dolphinheart:
At the moment, I do not want to intrude in ur discussion, but ill like to ask: using scripture as backup, pls what is the soul.?

What has that got to do with the discussion? I asked a simple question. If Jesus was a spirit or a spirit creature as JW claim He was; why did e explicitly say He wasn't a Spirit. I have used scripture in context stating a historical fact that Jesus is not and was not a Spirit. I am asking JW here to explain why Jesus would claim He is not a Spirit. Was Jesus lying?

alexis:
What has that got to do with the discussion? I asked a simple question. If Jesus was a spirit or a spirit creature as JW claim He was; why did e explicitly say He wasn't a Spirit. I have used scripture in context stating a historical fact that Jesus is not and was not a Spirit. I am asking JW here to explain why Jesus would claim He is not a Spirit. Was Jesus lying?

You can see that I initially said I'm not intruding into ur discussion , I was only interested when you mentioned soul. That's y I asked your own view on what the soul is. Someone is already discussing the issue of spirit with you.

alexis:
What has that got to do with the discussion? I asked a simple question. If Jesus was a spirit or a spirit creature as JW claim He was; why did e explicitly say He wasn't a Spirit. I have used scripture in context stating a historical fact that Jesus is not and was not a Spirit. I am asking JW here to explain why Jesus would claim He is not a Spirit. Was Jesus lying?

Let's take it one after the other. There are some scriptural proves to this stand, and I wish u will see how the points play out. I didn't follow the discussion from the beginning, but am interested in this ur question.

Why did Jesus say he was not a spirit? Because he was not. A spirit do not possess flesh and bones as he does. They are invisible creatures while Jesus was visible. So he was not lying, he told them the form they saw, not a spirit.

However, Jesus appearances, which was different from what he did previously, shows that he was no longer the same as before, he rather wish to bring introduce this bit by bit. Luke 24:31

JMAN05:
Let's take it one after the other. There are some scriptural proves to this stand, and I wish u will see how the points play out. I didn't follow the discussion from the beginning, but am interested in this ur question.

Why did Jesus say he was not a spirit? Because he was not. A spirit do not possess flesh and bones as he does. They are invisible creatures while Jesus was visible. So he was not lying, he told them the form they saw, not a spirit.

However, Jesus appearances, which was different from what he did previously, shows that he was no longer the same as before, he rather wish to bring introduce this bit by bit. Luke 24:31

You and I are on the same page. JW claimed He was/is a Spirit creature. And the same question you just answered, none of them has answered it. As to the fact why He was not the same as before, I addressed that in my earlier post.

dolphinheart:
You can see that I initially said I'm not intruding into ur discussion , I was only interested when you mentioned soul. That's y I asked your own view on what the soul is. Someone is already discussing the issue of spirit with you.

Can you quote where I used it so that I can explain better in context

alexis:
Can you quote where I used it so that I can explain better in context

This is part of your post where soul is mentioned.

I Corinthians 15:50 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. "The Apostle Paul turns to the subject of transformation of the body not the soul.

The statement brought about the question : what is the soul? Or what do you think the soul is.
Note : the question is not directly related to the post where you mentioned the word "soul", therefore your response need not be based on the post I quoted above but rather it should be based on the question I asked. So there is no need for context.

dacovajnr:
I defy logic coz this isn't about logic...am still insisting that Jesus is lord not God

My brother, Jesus is God. God splitted himself into three. God the Father, God the Son and the holy Ghost! The Bible called Jesus the word of God. When you talk, who speaks? You.

Hav seen sum1 who had a tongue of fire on his or her head the day he or she was filled wit the Holy Spirit

Jessicha:
Can you speak in foreign tongues like the apostles did on pentecost ?

caandi:
I didn't want to comment, but now I'm being provoked to. I don't judge or won't say Jw are bad or their doctrines are wrong, if you say its good for you, then it is. but one thing is for sure, if you don't believe that Jesus and God are one, then you are an Antichrist. you ain't his witness you are his weakness. choose ye today whom you will serve. as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord, who is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. the bright morning star, the first and the last, he who created the heaven and earth, and no one created him. bow before this maker, acknowledge him and worship him for he is God.

I do not want to intrude but I've been forced to..

Please give me the quotations in the bible where Jesus said he's God himself and I will give you where he said he is not.

Jesus always talked about His Father-I do what My Father tells Me.
But when He say's I and the Father are One-they are-believe it, Jesus is the seed from His Father-like you are a seed from your father-you too are one with him. No one has God at any time, God is light-the light of the world-Jesus had also Quoted these same scriptures I am the light of this world. I hope you understand that.

Sarang:
I do not want to intrude but I've been forced to..

Please give me the quotations in the bible where Jesus said he's God himself and I will give you where he said he is not.

alexis:
The Jehovah's Witnesses make the same mistake the disciples did even with the Bible in their hands to correct them. Jesus' grave was empty with only the linens left. There are no Scriptures used to validate a spirit resurrection rather than a bodily one. Nowhere does Jesus say I'm spirit instead he makes it clear he is flesh and bone. Some of the discrepancies that people often use to support this position are found in the Emmaus road encounter where the disciples did not recognize Jesus. We need to realize that they were in a state of distress, shock, fear, and unbelief of His resurrection. This became apparent after he revealed himself to them. Luke 24:16 in the beginning of his encounter tells us that “their eyes were restrained so they did not know Him.” This possibly could refer to the fact that Jesus was not revealing himself to them because of their unbelief even after they were testified to His resurrection by the women. So he was trying to draw them into faith, as he states in v. 25. “O foolish ones and slow of heart to believe in all the prophets have spoken.” In verses 30-31 He blessed and broke bread with them, and then “their eyes were opened and they knew Him.” This event opened their eyes. Jesus broke bread many times with them, at the feeding of the 5,000 he broke bread in prayer. The last night they spent with Jesus he broke bread and gave the true meaning of the Passover. V.35 when they arrived with the disciples they told the story of his resurrection and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Whether this is a natural or supernatural explanation for their inability to recognize Him, one thing is for sure, it was not because He was a spirit or raised in a completely different body.

After all you said, dont you think your conclusion was wrong? Jesus appeared in different fleshly bodies, depending on what he wants to achieve.

See what these two scholars has to say:

Adam Clarke:

It does not appear that there was anything supernatural here, for the reason why these persons (who were not apostles, see Luke 24:33) did not recollect our Lord is given by Mark, Mark 16:12, who says that Christ appeared to them in another form. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary

Barne's note:
Luke 24:16
This expression is used merely to denote that they did not "know" who he was. It does not appear that there was anything supernatural or miraculous in it, or that God used any power to blind them. It may easily be accounted for without any such supposition; for,

1. Jesus appeared "in another form" (Mark 16:12) - that is, different from his "usual" appearance.

(from Barnes' Notes,

The point: Jesus appeared with different bodies after his resurrection. These different bodies were not the executed body, he materialized them.

Of course, if he had the body he was executed with, they would easily identify him, but he not only had a different body, he also materialized new clothings. When Lazarus died, even though he spent four days, people identified him. Jesus case was different cos he was sparkling in form in some occasion, as against the form he would have been expected to have. It was when he performed the task associated with him that they new he was the one eg, breaking the loaf and explaining the scriptures.

alexis:
Please read carefully, the scripture said he was made alive "In the Spirit" and not made alive "As a Spirit" or made alive "A Spirit". The term "in the Spirit" does not mean "a spirit". The apostle John was "in the spirit" in Rev. 1:10. Romans 8:9 tells us that the whole congregation was "in the Spirit." Does this mean John and the early church had become spirits and lost their fleshly bodies? No! Read Romans 8:11, it makes it clear.

This is one of the heresy of Jehovah Witnesses supplied from your elders in the US and you can't ask God Almighty to show you the truth.

Your mistake started when you didnt take context into consideration. Jesus was put to death in the flesh and made alive in the spirit. If you remove "put to death in the flesh", you have rubbished the point. Thats why your comparison falters.

1. Was John dead in the flesh?

2. Were the romans literally dead in the flesh?

So I dont see the logic. Christ's flesh was dead, lifeless, but he was made alive (raised) in the spirit. Yes, that means he was raised as a spirit cos vs 21 shows that Peter was talking about Christ's resurrection which enable him also to enter heaven, vs 22.

alexis:
The expression "flesh and blood" occurs only five times in the New Testament. We need to define our definition of its meaning from the overall teachings. If we examine the following references we see the writers are often speaking of "flesh and blood" as being synonymous with "fallen man", just as it is of the physical body. If you substitute the words "fallen man" (unregenerate) in the place of "flesh and blood" we can understand better what the writer is saying:

Sometimes the word for flesh (sarx) is used literally (as in Heb.10:20) Sometimes it is used in a figurative manner as in Rom.8:9 (you are not in the flesh but the Spirit). Meaning the new nature rules over the old.

Matthew 16:13-17: "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee but my Father who is in heaven." Is this speaking of the physical flesh, or the corrupt nature of man not revealing Christ's identity to Peter? It came from God who is Spirit.

Galatians 1:16: Straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood.... “ Obviously Paul was not referring to the physical flesh but rather to corrupt and sinful man.

Ephesians 6:12: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood. "A case can be made either way in the interpretation of this text. For instance, because Christians do not physically wrestle with their opposition. Paul is not be referring to the physical body, we don't wrestle against sinful corrupt nature of other men but the spiritual forces of evil influencing him.

Hebrews 2:14:, "For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same. . . "Here the text does refer to the physical flesh but Jesus did not take on Himself a sinful nature. It means he became a human having the same physical flesh and blood minus the sin nature. As Rom.8:3 says Jesus came in the "likeness of sinful flesh", in other words he was fully man, he looked like any other but without the sin. The word for flesh used here refers to mankind in their fallen state (the body of flesh).

When speaking of sinful man who consists of flesh and blood he cannot enter the kingdom of God without a new birth. [b]John.3:3-5 Jesus explains that a fallen man cannot enter God's kingdom without being spiritually regenerated, he will not even see the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 15:50 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. "The Apostle Paul turns to the subject of transformation of the body not the soul. The body that we now possess is not suitable for the heavenly kingdom. It is corrupted, subject to disease, and decays. Only that which is pure, incorruptible and immortal can enter heaven, this is why there must be a change. Paul is answering the question of what kind of "body" believers will receive in the resurrection (vs. 35). It will be a "spiritual body" (vs. 44). A "spiritual body" must be defined by the ONLY example we have of one, the first fruits from the dead, the body of Jesus. He described his body as one of flesh and bone, (possibly bloodless) (Lk.24:39). The resurrection body has no need of blood as its life because its nature will not be the same. Presently the blood nourishes the cells that are in need of constant repair but food and water to supply nourishment will no longer be needed. No cells will be in need of repair in our glorified bodies so we will no longer need blood. As it states in Revelation we will neither hunger or thirst. We can eat but not from necessity. We will still have our body and its functions but obviously some things will change.

In verses 51-52, Paul then proceeds to tell us a mystery which involves the change that all believers will go through, The corruptible will put on in-corruption, and mortality will become immortality. We need to have a complete change to make us suitable for our new environment. This implies a conversion of our same physical bodies to a body with heavenly qualities. Nature does not know extinction but transformation, as science says energy cannot be destroyed but transformed.

His point is about man's nature (his being material with earthly body), as opposed to the heavenly immaterial nature, spirit. The latter is the form the resurrected "saints" will appear with.

If you keep viewing flesh and blood as fallen man/sinful man. You will be mistaken cos that is not Paul's point. After all, the "saints" has been declared righteous. to God, they are perfect humans. When you are born again, you are regenerated already. Pauls words must be referring to physical humans as not going to inhabit heaven with such bodies.

There is a spiritual or spirit body which are invisible, that the "saints" will take up. Angels for example materialize human bodies, but when they go into heaven, they dematerialize to that heavenly body which is always invisible to the human eyes.

Paul was referring to the physical body, the flesh and blood as not made for heavenly life. See his argument:

vs 40:

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort".

Note the word "sort", it differs, not because of sin, but it is of a different kind just like the body of fishes are different from human bodies. They are of different sort.

His point is not about fallen flesh as if it was the sin that made it impossible for them to inhabit heaven. Demons have spirit bodies and were in heaven before they were chased away.

He continuous: vs 42-45

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."

Did you notice that the first Adam became a living person? did you remember what part of Genesis Paul was quoting? (gen 2:7) has Adam fallen into sin then? Dont you think Paul's isnt about fallen man, but about the physical man, the nature.

You agree the last Adam is Jesus, do you? If yes, did you notice he was referred to as a life-giving spirit? Different nature.

46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and l[b]ike the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly[/b]. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one

Here shows clearly that Paul was talking about the nature, the physical man as against the spiritual. The heavenly one is a spirit, while the earthly is made of dust. If you bear the nature of the heavenly one, it is obvious you wont have body made of dust.

Of course, Jesus cannot possible have the same physical body. That will go against what he was an anitype of (Heb 13:11,12)

Physical bodies are not meant for heavenly life. That environment is not for physical bodies. Fleshly body started after the creation of the earth. we cant imagine Jesus having fleshly body in his prehuman life.

When the anointed ones die, they dont come up with the same body, they come with a different body. Paul used the planting experience as an example, when you sow a seed, it comes with a different body. So is fish and trees. different kind or environment come with a unique body. Heaven is not earth with oxygen and some other environmental factors meant for flesh. As such heaven has a body for its inhabitants.

brocab:
Jesus always talked about His Father-I do what My Father tells Me.
But when He say's I and the Father are One-they are-believe it, Jesus is the seed from His Father-like you are a seed from your father-you too are one with him. No one has God at any time, God is light-the light of the world-Jesus had also Quoted these same scriptures I am the light of this world. I hope you understand that.

If you mean that Jesus reflects his Father's qualities then you are right.
But they are distinct individuals.

Like you said John 1:18 no one has seen God at any time.
Verse 14..the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Yes Jesus had lived with his father for thousands of years,enough to know him and he knows him well enough.
He reflected perfectly his father's qualities.

But if you think they are both SAME.
Then I will ask you. Who was John 3:16 talking about and who bore the begotten son been refered to here?

The bible say's the Father and Jesus are one. No one can deny that, it's written. John 17:21.
"Listen" God is Spirit and Jesus is the flesh, we have spirits, "right" God's seed {Spirit} entered Mary, later Jesus was born.
So if God is Spirit, as the bible tells us so, and Jesus is the flesh as the bible tells us also, at the beginning God breathed into man to give us life, "right" then if God can do that with man-then why can't you believe Jesus also received His Fathers Spirit, this time through His seed, and Jesus came into the world, the same way we are born.
Adam received the breath of life-since then every soul that's born, receives it the same way.
God is love-every man women and child all have received God's love. Which makes us one with the love of God.
He said let us make man in our own image {THE WORD DID SAY OUR IMAGE} who was God' preferring too here? Who was with God at the time-was the word in the flesh, did Jesus say before Abraham was born I am, did Adam say he saw the Lord God walking in the garden-so does this mean he had only seen one flesh walking in the garden.{He didn't say he saw the Father walking with His Son} So does this prove Jesus was from the beginning-the word. The word lived among us-Mary was filled with the Holy Spirit, Both' Spirit and man are One.
If no-one has seen God at any time-then how can you say God is a man, and not believe God is Spirit, Gods Spirit lives in Jesus.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
Think about it? You need the Spirit of God to help you.

Sarang:
If you mean that Jesus reflects his Father's qualities then you are right.
But they are distinct individuals.

Like you said John 1:18 no one has seen God at any time.
Verse 14..the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Yes Jesus had lived with his father for thousands of years,enough to know him and he knows him well enough.
He reflected perfectly his father's qualities.

But if you think they are both SAME.
Then I will ask you. Who was John 3:16 talking about and who bore the begotten son been refered to here?

brocab:
The bible say's the Father and Jesus are one. No one can deny that, it's written. John 17:21.
"Listen" God is Spirit and Jesus is the flesh, we have spirits, "right" God's seed {Spirit} entered Mary, later Jesus was born.
So if God is Spirit, as the bible tells us so, and Jesus is the flesh as the bible tells us also, at the beginning God breathed into man to give us life, "right" then if God can do that with man-then why can't you believe Jesus also received His Fathers Spirit, this time through His seed, and Jesus came into the world, the same way we are born.
Adam received the breath of life-since then every soul that's born, receives it the same way.
God is love-every man women and child all have received God's love. Which makes us one with the love of God.
He said let us make man in our own image {THE WORD DID SAY OUR IMAGE} who was God' preferring too here? Who was with God at the time-was the word in the flesh, did Jesus say before Abraham was born I am, did Adam say he saw the Lord God walking in the garden-so does this mean he had only seen one flesh walking in the garden.{He didn't say he saw the Father walking with His Son} So does this prove Jesus was from the beginning-the word. The word lived among us-Mary was filled with the Holy Spirit, Both' Spirit and man are One.
If no-one has seen God at any time-then how can you say God is a man, and not believe God is Spirit, Gods Spirit lives in Jesus.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
Think about it? You need the Spirit of God to help you.

Exactly what is your point?
Jesus is God?

Nnaa i no de understand ur grammer abeg..

Are you made up with flesh and blood, bones "Soul {Spirit} living inside you?
How many people do you see-One.
Jesus is One with God. do you understand? God is Spirit living inside Jesus, how many people, do you see-One.

Sarang:
Exactly what is your point?
Jesus is God?

Nnaa i no de understand ur grammer abeg..

When we look into he scriptures further, we can see simplicities-in John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple and in three day's "I" will raise it up.
Colossions 2:12 "Through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
This is true evidence Jesus and God are One.

Sarang:
Exactly what is your point? Jesus is God?
Nnaa i no de understand ur grammer abeg..

You even have a lot of time

dolphinheart:
This is part of your post where soul is mentioned.



The statement brought about the question : what is the soul? Or what do you think the soul is.
Note : the question is not directly related to the post where you mentioned the word "soul", therefore your response need not be based on the post I quoted above but rather it should be based on the question I asked. So there is no need for context.

The point I was making was that the verse referred to the body and not something else i.e. soul/spirit. To your question - are you asking for he definition of what a soul is as compared to that of a physical body?

alexis:
The point I was making was that the verse referred to the body and not something else i.e. soul/spirit. To your question - are you asking for he definition of what a soul is as compared to that of a physical body?

Not asking for comparison with the soul. I want to hear your view on what the soul is, its definition, identification and example, using the scripture and known facts.

brocab:
Are you made up with flesh and blood, bones "Soul {Spirit} living inside you?
How many people do you see-One.
Jesus is One with God. do you understand? God is Spirit living inside Jesus, how many people, do you see-One.

Nkogheri..

Sarang:
Nkogheri..

Don't mind them

Sarang:
Nkogheri..

Don't mind them

sandie_ussien@yahoo.com

Kaziblake

And?

Sarang:
Nkogheri..

It is completely worthless arguing with a Jehovah’s witness because no matter the spiritual truth you try to communicate, they can never understand it. And this is the reason; they try to figure it out with their physical senses. Paul says that the word of God cannot be understood by our physical senses. In fact many a time, it does not make sense. How can one explain how a woman can become pregnant without mating with a man? It sure doesn’t make sense. How can you explain how Jesus walked on water? It sure does not have any scientific explanation. So there are many truths in the bible that does not make sense but they are true. You have to receive the word of God like a little child. If you try to figure it out first, you will miss it. And that is the JW have missed it. For instance, they questioned, how can a loving God throw someone into hell? Based on their reasoning, they conclude their cannot be hell and look for every scripture to support their claims. Paul says. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). It takes a spiritual man to understand spiritual truth. You have to first have the spirit of God to understand the things of the Spirit. Hence Paul said, “But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual” (1 Corinthians 2:10-13).

If you are not born again, you will certainly accept and enjoy the teachings of the JW because you are in the same realm with them – the sense realm. Even when Jesus was on earth, they almost stoned him to death because what he taught did not make sense most of the times. He then promised that he will send them another comforter who will guide them into all truth. “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come” (John 16:13).

So, no one can understand the word of God unless he is first born again and then receive the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised. It is worthless to argue with a JW. Even if you show them a plain truth, they will deny it and instead take you to another portion of the bible that appears to support their argument.

Those of you who say that you enjoy their teachings and always entertain them, how are your lives truly transformed? A JW will never come to you and preach about Jesus Christ as the Saviour of the world. They will never preach the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. The gospel of our Lord Jesus is the only means through which mankind is saved. That was why Paul said; “ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16)
What the JW preach or teach is perverted gospel. They are anti Christ. Virtually all their messages are opposed to what the bible teaches. Examples are;

1. The JW claim that Jesus did not resurrect bodily; that God could have melted the body of Jesus with chemical. But we all know that Jesus resurrected bodily as many of his disciples saw him and even doubting Thomas touched him.

2. They do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They claim he is just a wind or force.

3. They do not believe in miracles. Jesus said, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover” (Mark 16:17-18)

4. The JW says that God will not use the sin you commit in this present earth to judge you. They said the moment you die, you are free from all the sin you commit. They use Romans 6:7 which says, “for he that is dead is freed from sin” as basis for their argument. We all know this cannot be true. If it true, then we should all just enjoy ourselves in this present world hoping that when we die, our sins will be automatically cleansed. The bible is so clear on the subject of sin. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

5. They also claim only 144,000 will make heaven. But we all know that this is a lie from the pit of hell.

6. They do not believe that hell is real saying that hell is just a physical grave. But the bible is very clear on this subject. It was in fact the central point of most of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus clearly illustrated the reality of hell when he narrated the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The JW swept that story under the carpet calling it a parable. Even if it is a parable, do you make a parable of things that are not real? But it was not a parable. Parables do not mention specific names. But in this story, at least three specific names where mentioned. Jesus knew this by the gift of the word of knowledge what happened thousands of years ago and a group or persons will just label a truth he communicated to us as parable. Even most of the parables Jesus gave points to the fact that lost souls will end up in a place of torment.

7. The JW believe in salvation by works. That is actually the reason they are so dedicated to what they are doing. They think their entrance into God’s kingdom will be by their hard work. The bible says, “for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of god: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Every one that is saved ought to be involved in good works but it is not the good works that saves you.

8. They do not believe in the deity of Christ. Jesus is God in very essence of nature even though he is not the father. Their translation puts John 1:1 thus; “ In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was a god”

9. The bible teaches that Jesus died on the cross. The JW says he died on a tree. Of course, a cross is made out of a tree but I mean, they claim he died of a tree without the cross on the tree.

10. The bible teaches that when Jesus Christ comes back, all eyes shall see him, the JW says the opposite. They claim we will only feel his presence.

11. They foretold prophecy about the end of the world several times which never came to pass. And Jesus said that if a prophet foretells an event and it does not come to pass, mark that prophet as a false prophet. So the JW is a false religion.

12. The bible says Jesus is the son of God. The JW equates Jesus with angels.

I can go on and on. I am not ready to waste my energy for detailed analysis of each point. I am only helping the ignorant Nairalanders who are praising them to be properly enlightened on who they are so you will not perish with them. May God grant you understanding in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Ken4Christ:
It is completely worthless arguing with a Jehovah’s witness because no matter the spiritual truth you try to communicate, they can never understand it. And this is the reason; they try to figure it out with their physical senses. Paul says that the word of God cannot be understood by our physical senses. In fact many a time, it does not make sense. How can one explain how a woman can become pregnant without mating with a man? It sure doesn’t make sense. How can you explain how Jesus walked on water? It sure does not have any scientific explanation. So there are many truths in the bible that does not make sense but they are true. You have to receive the word of God like a little child. If you try to figure it out first, you will miss it. And that is the JW have missed it. For instance, they questioned, how can a loving God throw someone into hell? Based on their reasoning, they conclude their cannot be hell and look for every scripture to support their claims. Paul says. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). It takes a spiritual man to understand spiritual truth. You have to first have the spirit of God to understand the things of the Spirit. Hence Paul said, “But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual” (1 Corinthians 2:10-13).

If you are not born again, you will certainly accept and enjoy the teachings of the JW because you are in the same realm with them – the sense realm. Even when Jesus was on earth, they almost stoned him to death because what he taught did not make sense most of the times. He then promised that he will send them another comforter who will guide them into all truth. “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come” (John 16:13).

So, no one can understand the word of God unless he is first born again and then receive the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised. It is worthless to argue with a JW. Even if you show them a plain truth, they will deny it and instead take you to another portion of the bible that appears to support their argument.

Those of you who say that you enjoy their teachings and always entertain them, how are your lives truly transformed? A JW will never come to you and preach about Jesus Christ as the Saviour of the world. They will never preach the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. The gospel of our Lord Jesus is the only means through which mankind is saved. That was why Paul said; “ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16)
What the JW preach or teach is perverted gospel. They are anti Christ. Virtually all their messages are opposed to what the bible teaches. Examples are;

1. The JW claim that Jesus did not resurrect bodily; that God could have melted the body of Jesus with chemical. But we all know that Jesus resurrected bodily as many of his disciples saw him and even doubting Thomas touched him.

2. They do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They claim he is just a wind or force.

3. They do not believe in miracles. Jesus said, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover” (Mark 16:17-18)

4. The JW says that God will not use the sin you commit in this present earth to judge you. They said the moment you die, you are free from all the sin you commit. They use Romans 6:7 which says, “for he that is dead is freed from sin” as basis for their argument. We all know this cannot be true. If it true, then we should all just enjoy ourselves in this present world hoping that when we die, our sins will be automatically cleansed. The bible is so clear on the subject of sin. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

5. They also claim only 144,000 will make heaven. But we all know that this is a lie from the pit of hell.

6. They do not believe that hell is real saying that hell is just a physical grave. But the bible is very clear on this subject. It was in fact the central point of most of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus clearly illustrated the reality of hell when he narrated the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The JW swept that story under the carpet calling it a parable. Even if it is a parable, do you make a parable of things that are not real? But it was not a parable. Parables do not mention specific names. But in this story, at least three specific names where mentioned. Jesus knew this by the gift of the word of knowledge what happened thousands of years ago and a group or persons will just label a truth he communicated to us as parable. Even most of the parables Jesus gave points to the fact that lost souls will end up in a place of torment.

7. The JW believe in salvation by works. That is actually the reason they are so dedicated to what they are doing. They think their entrance into God’s kingdom will be by their hard work. The bible says, “for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of god: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Every one that is saved ought to be involved in good works but it is not the good works that saves you.

8. They do not believe in the deity of Christ. Jesus is God in very essence of nature even though he is not the father. Their translation puts John 1:1 thus; “ In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was a god”

9. The bible teaches that Jesus died on the cross. The JW says he died on a tree. Of course, a cross is made out of a tree but I mean, they claim he died of a tree without the cross on the tree.

10. The bible teaches that when Jesus Christ comes back, all eyes shall see him, the JW says the opposite. They claim we will only feel his presence.

11. They foretold prophecy about the end of the world several times which never came to pass. And Jesus said that if a prophet foretells an event and it does not come to pass, mark that prophet as a false prophet. So the JW is a false religion.

12. The bible says Jesus is the son of God. The JW equates Jesus with angels.

I can go on and on. I am not ready to waste my energy for detailed analysis of each point. I am only helping the ignorant Nairalanders who are praising them to be properly enlightened on who they are so you will not perish with them. May God grant you understanding in the name of Jesus. Amen.

You

Ken4Christ:
What the JW preach or teach is perverted gospel. They are anti Christ. Virtually all their messages are opposed to what the bible teaches. Examples are;

Is this true? Let's see....

1. They do not support warfare nor participate in them. They try to live in peace at all times. They will not kill their fellow humans for political reasons.
They try their best to follow jesus words found in matt chapt 5.

Hence they suffered for their neutrality during wars.

2. They do not participate in politics but put their hope on solving mans problem in Gods kingdom. Man is not capable of taking care of itself. World politics has shown Jeremiah to be right, hence they try to be no part of the world when it comes to rulership.

3. They have love among themselves and there meeting together is not segregated along tribal or skin colour lines. John 13:35

4. They do not support any form of sin and send away from their midst anyone who sins deliberately who does not change his ways the moment they noticed or discover such ones.

5. They believe jesus Christ is the son of God and follow his teachings recorded in the scriptures.
John 17:3 - This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent,
Jesus Christ.

John 20:17. -Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Therefore as christians , they know who their God is and who their mediator is!

6. they adhere to God’s original
standard of marriage as the union of one man and one woman, with sexual immorality being the only valid basis for divorce as being taught by jesus .Matthew 19:4-9

7. They preach about Gods kingdom in all the earth as jesus instructed. Mark16:15

You see them on the street, in ur homes, bus stations talking about Gods kingdom and the role jesus plays in it.
And if they can not be with you always, you have the worlds most distributed, most published, never missed magazines to assist you in ur search for the truth through bible study.

8. They preach and belief that a person’s works prove that his faith is alive. ( James 2:24, 26) However, salvation cannot be earned—it comes through “the undeserved kindness of God.”— Galatians 2:16, 21.

9. They follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ and honor him as our Savior and as the Son of God. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 5:31)

10. There elders do not enrich themselves with members contributions. They do not hold titles such as "most high", most anything" or "father".
They do not collect tithes

I can go on and on. I am not ready to waste my energy for detailed analysis of each point.

There are no detailed analysis to support ur view on each point.

I am only helping the ignorant Nairalanders who are praising them to be properly enlightened on who they are so you will not perish with them. May God grant you understanding in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Your post is for ignorant people. Those who search the scriptures to find out the truth are not ignorant!