Sahih Muslim Book 13: 4016Ibn
Abbas reported: When Allah’s
Messenger (may peace be upon him)
was about to leave this world, there
were persons (around him) in his
house, ‘Umar b. al-Kbattab being one
of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace
be upon him) said: Come, I MAY WRITE FOR YOU A DOCUMENTS ; YOU WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY AFTER THAT. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply
afflicted with pain. You have the
Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is
sufficient for us. Those who were
present in the house differed. Some
of them said: Bring him (the writing
material) so that Allah’s Messenger
(may peace be upon him) may write a
document for you and you would
NEVER GO ASTRAY after him And some
among them said what ‘Umar had
(already) said. When they indulged in
nonsense and began to dispute in the
presence of Allah’s Messenger (may
peace be upon him), he said: Get up
(and go away) ‘Ubaidullah said: Ibn
Abbas used to say: THERE WAS A
HEAVY LOSS, INDEED A HEAVY LOSS,
that, due to their dispute and noise.
Allah’s Messenger (may peace be
upon him) COULD NOT WRITE (OR DICTATE) THE DOCUMENTS FOR THEM.

These Hadiths state one thing clearly,
which is that Mohammed died with a
revelation which he wanted to speak out but could not/did not. He wanted to give the Muslims something of importance which will keep them on the right path. But he could not write it because of the commotion around him. This revelation remains unspoken and unwritten and went to the grave with Mohammed. What does this say about the Quran?

“We used to recite a surah which
resembled in length and severity to
(Surah) Bara’at. I HAVE, HOWEVER,
FORGOTTEN IT with the exception of this
which I remember out of it: ‘If there
were two valleys full of riches, for the
son of Adam, he would long for a
third valley and nothing would fill the
stomach of the son of Adam but
dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501)

Here we see the evidence for a whole
chapter which is missing from the Quran. These evidences from Islamic tradition prove the fact that Quran is incomplete and imperfect.

This also raises serious questions about
how the rest of the Quran can be trusted to be the true and complete revelation of the true God.

The verse that Muslim nations use to stone women was eaten by a goat. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan , parts of Turkey etc stone women to death.

Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. p. 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, p. 626; Ibn Qutbah, Tawil Mukhtalafi 'l-Hadith (Cairo: Maktaba al-Kulliyat al-Azhariyya. 1966) p. 310; As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 2. p. 13 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: “The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.” (Hasan) Ibn Majah 3:9:1944

...op nice one..but what you fail to understand is the koran proclaims that it is complete

--"And We have revealed the Book to you which
has clear explanation of EVERYTHING, and a
guidance, mercy and good news for those who
submit." (Qur'an 16:89)

---and another thing you fail to grab is we muslims see the koran as the FURQAN-that is the EVIDENCE OR CRITERION---hence the koran is used for verifying the autenticity of other book and NOTE THE OTHER WAY ROUND..

So when a thing goes contrary to the koran that thing is wrong not the KORAN

So please if you want to disprove the KORAN use the koran not another book narrated by a fellow human

BETATRON:
...op nice one..but what you fail to understand is the koran proclaims that it is complete

--"And We have revealed the Book to you which
has clear explanation of EVERYTHING, and a
guidance, mercy and good news for those who
submit." (Qur'an 16:89)

---and another thing you fail to grab is we muslims see the koran as the FURQAN-that is the EVIDENCE OR CRITERION---hence the koran is used for verifying the autenticity of other book and NOTE THE OTHER WAY ROUND..

So when a thing goes contrary to the koran that thing is wrong not the KORAN

So please if you want to disprove the KORAN use the koran not another book narrated by a fellow human

by the time quran 16:89 was revealed, more verses were yet to be revealed, does it mean since quran 16:89 say the book was complete, no need to revealed others passages ? This hadith was clearly understood , muhammed wanted to write a documents that will guide the muslims not to go astray, he died with this revelation.

malvisguy212:
by the time quran 16:89 was revealed, more verses were yet to be revealed, does it mean since quran 16:89 say the book was complete, no need to revealed others passages ? This hadith was clearly understood , muhammed wanted to write a documents that will guide the muslims not to go astray, he died with this revelation.

and the last Ayah of the Holy Quran was
this:
This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you,
completed my favor upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion-quran5:3

The last ayah of the koran clearly shows that the religion was perfected--can a thing be PERFECT without being COMPLETE?

And the koran clearly proclaims that prophet muhammad(pbuh) doesn't proclaim anything outside the tenets of the koran---so whatever document he wants to give will be within the teachings of the KORAn

BETATRON:
and the last Ayah of the Holy Quran was
this:
This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you,
completed my favor upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion-quran5:3

The last ayah of the koran clearly shows that the religion was perfected--can a thing be PERFECT without being COMPLETE?

do you know the meaning of perfected ? It mean to perfect what is imperfect to clean what is unclean , if the quran which you claims is from God (came down from heaven) does it mean in heaven the quran was not perfected ?

malvisguy212:
do you know the meaning of perfected ? It mean to perfect what is imperfect to clean what is unclean , if the quran which you claims is from God (came down from heaven) does it mean in heaven the quran was not perfected ?

funny you..by perfected it means THERE IS NOTHING MISSING IN IT...perfect is not only used in that context bro..that is why the ayah further state COMPLETED my favours...meaning that there is no verse that is missing in it...cause if a verse is missing it will mean the koran is imperfect and incomplete

Simply put ABSOLUTE--or not reduced or diminished

BETATRON:
funny you..by perfected it means THERE IS NOTHING MISSING IN IT...perfect is not only used in that context bro..that is why the ayah further state COMPLETED my favours...meaning that there is no verse that is missing in it...cause if a verse is missing it will mean the koran is imperfect and incomplete

Simply put ABSOLUTE

trash!!! What is it that muhammed waned to write that will not lead his followers astray ? Why will he died with such an important revelation ?

malvisguy212:
trash!!! What is it that muhammed waned to write that will not lead his followers astray ? Why will he died with such an important revelation ?

like I said earlier koran proclaims that muhammad(s) doesn't teach anything outside the tenets of the koran

What he wanted to reveal is just a clarification of some things in the koran or the person must fitting to succeed him after his death-still within the tenets of the koran

BETATRON:
like I said earlier koran proclaims that muhammad(s) doesn't teach anything outside the tenets of the koran

What he wanted to reveal is just a clarification of some things in the koran or the person must fitting to succeed him after his death-still within the tenets of the koran

you mean muhammed wanted to write down something he has already wrote ? Something that will not lead the muslims astray? You are talking trash. You are talking as if you know more than muhammed.

malvisguy212:
you mean muhammed wanted to write down something he has already wrote ? Something that will not lead the muslims astray? You are talking trash. You are talking as if you know more than muhammed.

yes..do you have a problem with laying emphasis on a thing?

Like a teacher after delivering a lecture ask the student to pay attention on a particular topic..what's wrong with that bro?

BETATRON:
yes..do you have a problem with laying emphasis on a thing?

Like a teacher after delivering a lecture ask the student to pay attention on a particular topic..what's wrong with that bro?

and this..... “We used to recite a surah which
resembled in length and severity to
(Surah) Bara’at. I have, however,
forgotten it with the exception of this
which I remember out of it: ‘If there
were two valleys full of riches, for the
son of Adam, he would long for a
third valley and nothing would fill the
stomach of the son of Adam but
dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501)

Here we see the evidence for a whole
chapter which is missing from the Quran.
These evidences from Islamic tradition
prove the fact that Quran is incomplete
and imperfect.

malvisguy212:
and this..... “We used to recite a surah which
resembled in length and severity to
(Surah) Bara’at. I have, however,
forgotten it with the exception of this
which I remember out of it: ‘If there
were two valleys full of riches, for the
son of Adam, he would long for a
third valley and nothing would fill the
stomach of the son of Adam but
dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501)

Here we see the evidence for a whole
chapter which is missing from the Quran.
These evidences from Islamic tradition
prove the fact that Quran is incomplete
and imperfect.

like I said the koran is the furqan the criterion other books are not used to check the koran's authenticity but the koran to check other book's authenticity

And the koran stated in the verses that I have shown you that it is PERFECT and COMPLETE

So we cannot take a human narration over that of the Divine

BETATRON:
like I said the koran is the furqan the criterion other books are not used to check the koran's authenticity but the koran to check other book's authenticity

And the koran stated in the verses that I have shown you that it is PERFECT and COMPLETE

So we cannot take the of a human narration over that of the Divine

muslims condemned the hadith when is not in their favour.

malvisguy212:
muslims condemned the hadith when is not in their favour.

lol..its not like that bro..the hadith is contradicting the Koaran

The hadith the result of human narration the koran is DEVINE

Which do we take the DEVINE statement or the human statement.?

malvisguy212:
by the time quran 16:89 was revealed, more verses were yet to be revealed, does it mean since quran 16:89 say the book was complete, no need to revealed others passages ? This hadith was clearly understood , muhammed wanted to write a documents that will guide the muslims not to go astray, he died with this revelation.

Maybe allahh never knew his apostle will die so soon.

BETATRON:
and the last Ayah of the Holy Quran was
this:
This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you,
completed my favor upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion-quran5:3

The last ayah of the koran clearly shows that the religion was perfected--can a thing be PERFECT without being COMPLETE?

And the koran clearly proclaims that prophet muhammad(pbuh) doesn't proclaim anything outside the tenets of the koran---so whatever document he wants to give will be within the teachings of the KORAn

Who else does allahh speak to aside mohammed? How can one trust a god (allahh) who will end up abrogating or changing his own word in order to favour mohammed (camel piss be upon him), depending on the situation mohammed found himself.

It is either allahh is the same person with mohammed or allahh never existed at all.

malvisguy212:
muslims condemned the hadith when is not in their favour.

Thats the problem with muslims, any hadith that runs contrary to common sense or that reveals mohammed as fake and\or pedofile is weak or fabricated (according to muslims), yet this suppposedly fabricated hadith will remain in islamic libraries worldwide. Anytime muslims are cornered they condemn the hadith and some will automatically, though temporarily, become a 'quran-only' muslims.

Lying is normative islam as long as it promotes allahh\mohammed\islam\quran.

true2god:
Who else does allahh speak to aside mohammed? How can one trust a god (allahh) who will end up abrogating or changing his own word in order to favour mohammed (camel piss be upon him), depending on the situation mohammed found himself.

It is either allahh is the same person with mohammed or allahh never existed at all.

I was going to ask this same question. Who else did Allah talked to except Muhammed?

@BETATRON. I need to understand something clearly pls. When Muslims or the Koran says, The Koran is perfect and complete without contradictions, are to take it that,

1. Because Jibril spoke to Muhammed only, and not to anyone else? So the room for contradictions were eliminated?

2. Why did the Koran or Muhammed say the Koran came directly from the mouth of Allah, when the same Koran says Jibril dictated the Koran to Muhammed and he intern dictated it to his companion?

3. Should we take it that since it was Jibril who dictated the Koran, Jibril is the same as Allah?

4. When the Koran or Muslims say the Bible is corrupt, are they saying because Yahweh spoke to so many people at different times, that corrupted the Bible?

Whose story will you rather believe? Is it the story of a man who had eye witnesses/other people confirming what he said. Or a man without a witness to corroborate his claims?

For example. The Biblical prophets, talked about the coming of Christ. Reading the old testament, we don't need to crack codes to decipher who they were talking about. When Christ came, He said, those Prophets were talking about Him.

But why do we need to crack codes to find Muhammed in the scriptures? And why are muslims seriously against the same scriptures they claim Allah gave to his Prophets?

Why did the Koran call Muhammed the first Muslim, yet referred to all the Biblical Prophets as muslims?

true2god:
Thats the problem with muslims, any hadith that runs contrary to common sense or that reveals mohammed as fake and\or pedofile is weak or fabricated (according to muslims), yet this suppposedly fabricated hadith will remain in islamic libraries worldwide. Anytime muslims are cornered they condemn the hadith and some will automatically, though temporarily, become a 'quran-only' muslims.

Lying is normative islam as long as it promotes allahh\mohammed\islam\quran.

when your ready to have a healthy conversation you can mention me

I cannot join you in braying like an ass..please learn courtesy from your pastor(that is if the the church still teach courtesy) or maybe go back to your bible and learn how those who are christ like put forward their argument

basilico:
The verse that Muslim nations use to stone women was eaten by a goat.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan , parts of Turkey etc stone women to death.

You mean allaah couldn't protect his quoran from an ordinary goat?

analice107:

I was going to ask this same question. Who else did Allah talked to except Muhammed?

@BETATRON. I need to understand something clearly pls. When Muslims or the Koran says, The Koran is perfect and complete without contradictions, are to take it that,

1. Because Jibril spoke to Muhammed only, and not to anyone else? So the room for contradictions were eliminated?

2. Why did the Koran or Muhammed say the Koran came directly from the mouth of Allah, when the same Koran says Jibril dictated the Koran to Muhammed and he intern dictated it to his companion?

3. Should we take it that since it was Jibril who dictated the Koran, Jibril is the same as Allah?

4. When the Koran or Muslims say the Bible is corrupt, are they saying because Yahweh spoke to so many people at different times, that corrupted the Bible?

Whose story will you rather believe? Is it the story of a man who had eye witnesses/other people confirming what he said. Or a man without a witness to corroborate his claims?

For example. The Biblical prophets, talked about the coming of Christ. Reading the old testament, we don't need to crack codes to decipher who they were talking about. When Christ came, He said, those Prophets were talking about Him.

But why do we need to crack codes to find Muhammed in the scriptures? And why are muslims seriously against the same scriptures they claim Allah gave to his Prophets?

Why did the Koran call Muhammed the first Muslim, yet referred to all the Biblical Prophets as muslims?

that the koran was sent to muhammad by Allah is true,jibril acting as the medium btw muhammad and Allah doesn't mean that jibril is ithe owner of the content of the koran

It is the case of a post man the letter is note his(the postman's own) he is just serving as a medium between the owner of the letter and the receiver of the letter--2 and 3

the koran clearly states "do they note ponder on the koran,if it is from other than Allah they would have found there-in much contradictions--so the koran does not say the koran cannot be wrong because it was sent to one man but because it was from God--like you know every attempt to proof that the koran contains contradictions as gone futile-1

Muslim don't say the bible is wrong because YAHWEH spoke to numerous prophets but because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men--maybe you should make more findings on what transpired and the council of nacea---as you know too many hands spoils the cook--4

I believe a story which is logically and intellectually true weda this truth is followed by one man or by the entire world--truth has nothing to do with number does it?

All the prophets it our churches today where were they mentioned in the bible?

Like Í said in number 4 because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men both the old and the new

Muhammad brought the NAMe islam(as the seal of the prophet) but the practice as been since the time of adam..as you know all the prophets in the bible including christ preached monotheism and not trinity
And this is eternal life that they know You the ONE TRUE GOD and jesus whom you SENT-jesus

The lORD thy GOD is ONE--moses

BETATRON:
when your ready to have a healthy conversation you can mention me

I cannot join you in braying like an ass..please learn courtesy from your pastor(that is if the the church still teach courtesy) or maybe go back to your bible and learn how those who are christ like put forward their argument

Bros, What has he said now? He just quoted the hadith. And I asked questions. Pls don't ignore these questions nah.

analice107:

Bros, What has he said now? He just quoted the hadith. And I asked questions. Pls don't ignore these questions nah.

lol..I already answered your questions to the best of my ability

The Quran is a criteron in checking the authenticity of other books, any book that contradicts the Quran is wrong, not the Quran, so all the hadith the op brought forth cannot and will never put the authenticity of the Quran in doubt.

[b]For those trying hard to force contradictions into the Quran, when infact, there is none, Let me give you a little logic to ponder on, Allah(S.W.T) says "Will they not then meditate on the Qur'an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a contradiction.", there are two ways to test if this statement is true, the first method is cumbersome, and that is by scrutinising the quran thouroughly, Alhamdulillah, all the alleged contradictions brought fourth by anti-islamist here on NL has been sent to the trash can by NL muslims. The second method is very simple, the word translated to "a contradiction" there is "ikhtilafan", now lets consider ikhtilafan as an entity not a word, which means we should write it as "many ikhtilifan" instead of "many a contradiction" implying we shouldn't see more than one ikhtilafan in the Quran, if we do, then that verse will be wrong, but surprisingly iktilafan appears just once, which is in that verse! ALLAHU AKBAR!!![/b]

BETATRON:
lol..its not like that bro..the hadith is contradicting the Koaran

The hadith the result of human narration the koran is DEVINE

Which do we take the DEVINE statement or the human statement.?

many hadith give the same story, the whole hadith cannot be wrong.

malvisguy212:
many hadith give the same story, the whole hadith cannot be wrong.

seems you don't get the point..the koran is the criterion for other books authenticity not the other way round

Only the koran can be used to disprove the koran....it like saying christ won't come back because a catholic priest says so..definitely you will say the priest is wrong because and only because His statement does not tailor with the bible

Hope you get my point now..
Hope you're not a liverpool fan--smiles---

lexiconkabir:
[b]For those trying hard to force contradictions into the Quran, when infact, there is none, Let me give you a little logic to ponder on, Allah(S.W.T) says "Will they not then meditate on the Qur'an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a contradiction.", there are two ways to test if this statement is true, the first method is cumbersome, and that is by scrutinising the quran thouroughly, Alhamdulillah, all the alleged contradictions brought fourth by anti-islamist here on NL has been sent to the trash can by NL muslims. The second method is very simple, the word translated to "a contradiction" there is "ikhtilafan", now lets consider ikhtilafan as an entity not a word, which means we should write it as "many ikhtilifan" instead of "many a contradiction" implying we shouldn't see more than one ikhtilafan in the Quran, if we do, then that verse will be wrong, but surprisingly iktilafan appears just once, which is in that verse! ALLAHU AKBAR!!![/b]

trash!!

Surah 6:115: “The word of your Lord
is complete, in truth and justice.
Nothing shall abrogate His words.
He is the Hearer, the
Omniscient.”

However, note the contradiction in Surah 2:106:
“Whatever verse we shall abrogate,
or cause (thee) to forget, we will
bring a better one than it, or one
like unto it. Dost thou not know that
God is almighty?” (Sale)

Why replace one verse with another if
they are similar. If the Qur’an is the
Word of God, should it not be perfect
from the start? How can one perfect
verse be better than another perfect
verse? So, how can Allah claim to
substitute his perfect verse(s) with
something better? How can a divinely
perfect revelation be improved upon?
The fact that some of its verses needed
to be replaced within a short period of
just 23 years – the time it took to
complete the Qur’an – proves that the
Qur’an’s claim to be a book for all time
and for all peoples is a lie. This means
some of Allah’s eternal words were
applicable for only a very short period
and not for all eternity as it is claimed.

lexiconkabir:
The Quran is a criteron in checking the authenticity of other books, any book that contradicts the Quran is wrong, not the Quran, so all the hadith the op brought forth cannot and will never put the authenticity of the Quran in doubt.

Surah 73:1-2: “O you wrapped in garments (i.e. Prophet Muhammad)! STAND (TO PRAY ) ALL NIGHT , except a little.” (Hilali-Khan)

However, the above two verses are
abrogated by the last verse of the very
same Surah:

Surah 73:20: “Verily, your Lord knows
that you do stand (to pray at night) a
little less than two-thirds of the night,
or half the night, or a third of the
night, and so do a party of those with
you, And Allah measures the night
and the day. He knows that you are
UNABLE TO PRAY THE WHOLE NIGHT, so
He has turned to you (in mercy). So,
recite you of the Qur’an as much as
may be easy for you.” (Hilali-Khan)

The directive to “Stand to pray all night,
except a little” in Surah 73:2 is
abrogated by Surah 73:20 – the last verse of the same Surah. But then it was
abrogated again by the implementation
of the five daily prayers. Thus, the
abrogator was abrogated.

BETATRON:
seems you don't get the point..the koran is the criterion for other books authenticity not the other way round

Only the koran can be used to disprove the koran....it like saying christ won't come back because a catholic priest says so..definitely you will say the priest is wrong because and only because His statement does not tailor with the bible

Hope you get my point now..
Hope you're not a liverpool fan--smiles---

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48,
Number 823:
Narrated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet
heard a man (reciting Qur’an) in the
Mosque, and he said, “May Allah
bestow His Mercy upon him. No
doubt, he made me remember such-
and such Verses of such-and-such
Surah which I dropped (from my
memory).

Muhammad forgot some verses and one
of his friends reminded him of them.
However, when there was no one to
remind him, he claimed that these
verses have been abrogated by Allah. We saw this to be true previously when two of his followers told him that they had forgotten some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them that these verses “have been abrogated, thus, forget about it.”