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Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity - Religion (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by oglalasioux(m): 2:27pm On Jan 13, 2016
samted:


you believe what you believe. why don't u let others believe what they will

Shekau believe he will die and go to heaven to marry 70 virgins. That's his business. I can't interfere with his belief. But when he insists that he must bomb innocent people who are minding their business to achieve that I don't think it's his business anyone. It becomes OUR business.

Likewise if my parents want to worship in any church it's their business. It doesn't concern me. But when they want to use our family house to 'sow seed' for the man of God, that too becomes OUR business.

So that's why I won't let others believe what they believe. Thanks.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 2:33pm On Jan 13, 2016
oglalasioux:


Shekau believe he will die and go to heaven to marry 70 virgins. That's his business. I can't interfere with his belief. But when he insists that he must bomb innocent people who are minding their business to achieve that I don't think it's his business anyone. It becomes OUR business.

Likewise if my parents want to worship in any church it's their business. It doesn't concern me. But when they want to use our family house to 'sow seed' for the man of God, that too becomes OUR business.

So that's why I won't let others believe what they believe. Thanks.

your argument is against christians and their belief in creation. let them believe what they believe. join the fight against boko haram if you must or wrestle your folks if you wish. just don't insult the beliefs of another man when it clearly doesn't affect you.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by oglalasioux(m): 2:42pm On Jan 13, 2016
samted:


your argument is against christians and their belief in creation. let them believe what they believe. join the fight against boko haram if you must or wrestle your folks if you wish. just don't insult the beliefs of another man when it clearly doesn't affect you.

Let me put it this way;

Christians believing in the bible is ok. No problem. But when the same bible teaches that everything happens because God ordained it to happen so then there is a problem. It has made Africans lazy and superstitious to the level of degradation. It's affecting us all so it's everybody's business.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 2:46pm On Jan 13, 2016
oglalasioux:


Let me put it this way;

Christians believing in the bible is ok. No problem. But when the same bible teaches that everything happens because God ordained it to happen so then there is a problem. It has made Africans lazy and superstitious to the level of degradation. It's affecting us all so it's everybody's business.

finally, we have attained a common ground.
Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 3:07pm On Jan 13, 2016
I see God undecided thanks to my hubby grin ever night embarassed so who I gonna call... #Oooooh nothing angry
Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 3:11pm On Jan 13, 2016
Nubian113:
I see God undecided thanks to my hubby grin ever night embarassed so who I gonna call... #Oooooh nothing angry
cry cry
Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 3:14pm On Jan 13, 2016
sonOfLucifer:

cry cry

**In giggs voice* "Talk to me darling" kiss

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nmeri17: 3:21pm On Jan 13, 2016
sonOfLucifer:
In the beginning was God.

And he got bored because the world was void. God knew not how he came. He had always existed. He is, was and is.

He couldn't die, so he couldn't be said to be alive. He was. He just was.

At some point, a thought came into his head. Now one can't say where this thought came from. Or if this thought gave him a sense of purpose. But it was a good thought.

So he spoke. And there was light. And with that light, he saw lots of darkness. And space, lots of space. The kind of space that will put a smile on an Ikwerre man's face.

So off to work he set. A planet here and a planet there. The world was his creative playground. All he had to do was speak and it became. The original talk and do.


OMGOODNESS grin grin grin grin grin

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 4:58pm On Jan 14, 2016
plaetton:


Let me come in here to help you.

You see, the problem that hinders your thinking is the obsession with the word " created ".
This is your legacy from Sunday school, when you were forced-fed with magical thinking long before you began to articulate your own thoughts.

No atheist, no scientist tell you that any think was created. The laws of physics that operate throughout the universe teach us that it is " Processes" that involve electromagnetic energy that evolves the universe.

" Creation" simply connotes magic, pulling a rabbit( in this case, a universe) out of one's axss.

Acknowledge where you are coming from, and save yourself this unnecessary, illogical and silly rigmarolling.

You are thinking in magical terms.
The scientific community are thinking in rational terms.

Are you smart enough to spot the difference? undecided



Plz stop mixing atheism with science, cuz trust me when I say "Men became scientific because they expected Law in Nature, and they expected Law in Nature because they believed in a Legislator".

So plz stop trying to act as they one and the same cuz they ain't.

And how is the universe "evolving" literally out of "nothing" not magic?

Last time I check the rabbit hat trick, it's called a magic trick due to the fact that there was "nothing" in the hat" then suddenly the magician pull a "rabbit out of nothing". The atheist has just improved the magic by suggesting there's no magician, nothing just did it on its own.

Universe evolves from nothing? Randomly nd unintelligently ? Matter suddenly becomes "alive" and "conscious" ? I'm not sure how this ain't magic.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by plaetton: 5:08pm On Jan 14, 2016
Richirich713:




Plz stop mixing atheism with science, cuz trust me when I say "Men became scientific because they expected Law in Nature, and they expected Law in Nature because they believed in a Legislator".

So plz stop trying to act as they one and the same cuz they ain't.

And how is the universe "evolving" literally out of "nothing" not magic?

Last time I check the rabbit hat trick, it's called a magic trick due to the fact that there was "nothing" in the hat" then suddenly the magician pull a "rabbit out of nothing". The atheist has just improved the magic by suggesting there's no magician, nothing just did it on its own.

Universe evolves from nothing? Randomly nd unintelligently ? Matter suddenly becomes "alive" and "conscious" ? I'm not sure how this ain't magic.



That's my point sir.
It is too difficult, too mentally tasking for you to understand the complex Processes of matter and the universe.
That is not the fault of any atheist.

1 Like

Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 5:44pm On Jan 14, 2016
plaetton:


That's my point sir.
It is too difficult, too mentally tasking for you to understand the complex Processes of matter and the universe.
That is not the fault of any atheist.

"Think for a minute of a marble table in front of you. Do you think that, given a trillion years or infinite time, this table could suddenly or gradually become conscious, aware of its surroundings, aware of its identity the way you are? " Anthony Flew

It's maybe too mentally challenging for u to realize matter doesn't just evolve into conscious.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 5:47pm On Jan 14, 2016
Richirich713:


It's maybe too mentally challenging for u to realize matter doesn't just evolve into conscious.
Yeah, I feel you. It's much easier to conclude a different 'mystery' caused the original mystery.

2 Likes

Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by lanre316: 8:11pm On Jan 14, 2016
sonOfLucifer:

Yeah, I feel you. It's much easier to conclude a different 'mystery' caused the original mystery.

I just admire how you ignored the trolls.

1 Like

Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 4:30am On Jan 15, 2016
lanre316:


I just admire how you ignored the trolls.
Well, I'm an experienced troll. grin grin

2 Likes

Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by zzzzy: 5:12am On Jan 15, 2016
Funny atheists. grin I know of atheists that have more knowledge than you guys both theologically and scientifically but you ng guys want to just form like you know something just because you just watched 1 movie or something like that. Nigerians and copying ba... grin
Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 9:38am On Jan 15, 2016
johnydon22:

The problem is what is eternal? Low quantum energized particles? simpler elements or low frequency of energy? or a humanoid?

Whatever it is it can't be a substance we know of in the universe since that would mean it's made of contingent substances. It also has to be independent space-time since that is also finite.

johnydon22:

For goodness sake nobody ever is arguing the universe came from nothing... That notion is always the fantasy you all swim in..

More over in physics "Nothing" means the lowest level of energy frequency..

And what does literally nothing mean? When a atheists tells me the universe evolved from literally from nothing?

johnydon22:

It is always funny when people with no basic knowledge in astronomy come out to claim the universe full of random chaotic events is designed and fined tuned..

now lets see an example to your words: Point out to us the things that makes you think the universe is fine tuned and designed.. not just saying it


Please this claim of fine tune is yet your delusion.. Nobody with a basic knowledge of astronomy will ever claim precision in the universe.

Please point out to us the fine tuning you know lets see how

I guess nobody here has basic knowledge of astronomy or physics.

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". Hawking (physicist and cosmologist) -Atheist

"Wherever physicists look, they see examples of fine-tuning" Martin Rees (cosmologist and astrophysicist) -Atheist

"If anyone claims not to be surprised by the special features the universe has, he is hiding his head in the sand. These special features are surprising and unlikely" David Deutch (physicist) Atheist


johnydon22:

Oh yes and in science that thing is a "Singularity" not a humanoid..

What are u getting at? R suggesting the universe is eternal?

johnydon22:

Again, the events in the universe is one that spells randomness more than anything..

Now point out to us the things that made you say it is intelligent?


We must be very lucky people, if the cosmological constant was off by a hair we wouldn't be here. If the gravitational constant was off by just a hair we wouldn't be here.

It has been calculated that if the value of even one of the fundamental constants—the speed of light or the mass of an electron, for instance—had been to the slightest degree different, then no planet capable of permitting the evolution of human life could have formed.

It's as if the universe knew we were coming.

"The more I examine the universe and study the details of its architecture,” writes physicist Freeman Dyson, “the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense knew we were coming"

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 11:25am On Jan 15, 2016
sonOfLucifer:

Yeah, I feel you. It's much easier to conclude a different 'mystery' caused the original mystery.

Plz just answer the question?

"Think for a minute of a marble table in front of you. Do you think that, given a trillion years or infinite time, this table could suddenly or gradually become conscious, aware of its surroundings, aware of its identity the way you are? " Anthony Flew

For that is the atheist position, that at some point matter become conscious nd the big "I" came along with the big "we".

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 6:46pm On Jan 15, 2016
Richirich713:


Whatever it is it can't be a substance we know of in the universe since that would mean it's made of contingent substances. It also has to be independent space-time since that is also finite.
I think i have already given you the scientific answer to that.. "Singularity" as a matter of fact in the big bang cosmology is the starting point of space/time..


And what does literally nothing mean? When a atheists tells me the universe evolved from literally from nothing?
That my dear friend is between you and any individual that you discuss that with..



I guess nobody here has basic knowledge of astronomy or physics.

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". Hawking (physicist and cosmologist) -Atheist

"Wherever physicists look, they see examples of fine-tuning" Martin Rees (cosmologist and astrophysicist) -Atheist

"If anyone claims not to be surprised by the special features the universe has, he is hiding his head in the sand. These special features are surprising and unlikely" David Deutch (physicist) Atheist
And you just confirmed it..

I asked for examples of a precise natural manifestation that isn't random and i get quotes.. seriously?

You couldn't pin point maybe some phenomenons out there, you could pin point how the whole universe is one peaceful, serene place?

Don't you see the desert? Can't you see how calm and fine-tuned it is.. Can't you see the sand looks like wave waters, drawn lines parallel like a fine work of some invisible artist..

But oh sir behind that artistic work of a desertic sand dune is not an invisible artist. But a random chaotic event of blowing Wind on Sand..

Next time don't rush to pull out quotes you don't even understand..

I asked for examples and got quote..wow



What are u getting at? R suggesting the universe is eternal?
Am i supposed to teach you what a singularity is?




We must be very lucky people, if the cosmological constant was off by a hair we wouldn't be here. If the gravitational constant was off by just a hair we wouldn't be here.
It has been calculated that if the value of even one of the fundamental constants—the speed of light or the mass of an electron, for instance—had been to the slightest degree different, then no planet capable of permitting the evolution of human life could have formed.
It's as if the universe knew we were coming.
"The more I examine the universe and study the details of its architecture,” writes physicist Freeman Dyson, “the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense knew we were coming"
Again here we go more quotes.

If actually you had an idea on the cosmological constant was supposed to negate gravitational attraction and ensure a universe that is static in nature but as a matter of fact the universal expansion is accelerating showing the universe is even more random than we think.

Lets see another chance: Tell me the universal cosmological constant not just google up quotes..

You see? You proposed a designed intelligent universe only to come up with the observed universal constants.

Look more into astronomy, the universe is in no way a serene precise entity but rather a very chaotic random one and from these chaotic interactions comes resulting outcomes..

So why not try again and come up with actual examples ... and oh since you love Hawkins so much..

He actually is a Gnostic Atheist, the type that maintain There is no God and none necessary...

And you just proved me right... Stop the quotes and actually pull of some Astrophysics ..

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 6:55pm On Jan 15, 2016
Richirich713:


"Think for a minute of a marble table in front of you. Do you think that, given a trillion years or infinite time, this table could suddenly or gradually become conscious, aware of its surroundings, aware of its identity the way you are? " Anthony Flew
More quotes and a logical mockery..

Anthony flew forgot that table actually is made from wood which is taken from a tree which is a living organism that is actually aware of photo sensitivity in it's environment....



It's maybe too mentally challenging for u to realize matter doesn't just evolve into conscious.
Actually it is more challenging for you though to understand that it can and you are a typical example of a conscious matter.

Next time tell Anthony Flew the difference between a table and a tree which is Biological metabolism.. Once this action ceases (biological metabolism) there can never be a consciousness..

A table is made from an already DEAD tree so its like asking me if a dead human corpse will turn into a baby..

Consciousness is a product of a living entity (An entity with metabolical activities) not the other way round..

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 10:03pm On Jan 15, 2016
johnydon22:
I think i have already given you the scientific answer to that.. "Singularity" as a matter of fact in the big bang cosmology is the starting point of space/time..

Johnny the universe is finite nd contingent, whatever cuz the big bang was independent of space-time and cannot be any substance in the universe we know of.

johnydon22:
That my dear friend is between you and any individual that you discuss that with..


Dear friend u seem to be the one who doesn't understand that, when u quote someone talking to some1 else make sure u remember he was talking to some1 else and not u.

Don't just rush in the discussion nd assume no atheist believes the world came from literally nothing.

johnydon22:

And you just confirmed it..

I asked for examples of a precise natural manifestation that isn't random and i get quotes.. seriously?


No I just ignored u and decided to give u quotes from Atheist physicists to show u what I'm arguing for, namely the fine-tuning argument. I made that pretty clear when I brought up the precision of the of the fundamental constants of the universe at the end of my post.

Just like I ignored ur next post as soon as I saw u bring up Yahweh, since the fine-tuning argument can be use for Deism or Islam nd not just Christianity. Its main argument is for intelligence not whether this intelligent source is personal or not.

johnydon22:
[s][You couldn't pin point maybe some phenomenons out there, you could pin point how the whole universe is one peaceful, serene place?

Don't you see the desert? Can't you see how calm and fine-tuned it is.. Can't you see the sand looks like wave waters, drawn lines parallel like a fine work of some invisible artist..

But oh sir behind that artistic work of a desertic sand dune is not an invisible artist. But a random chaotic event of blowing Wind on Sand[/s]


This what happens when u jump into discussions without reading. This got nothing to do on what I was previously arguing for. It was so obvious I was arguing for intelligent design while rejecting physical necessity and mocking those who hold on to chance.

johnydon22:

Next time don't rush to pull out quotes you don't even understand..


Next time plz stick to what Richirich713 is arguing for.

johnydon22:

I asked for examples and got quote..wow


Quotes are good especially if the person has a PHD on what is being discussed. So it's good to provide some quotes to support ones claim.

I know atheists on nairaland don't look at what the experts have to say, and won't dare quote historical scholars to support their claims that Jesus was created at the council of nicea. But that's for another topic.

johnydon22:

Am i supposed to teach you what a singularity is?


All I want to know is to do u consider the universe eternal or not?

johnydon22:

[s]Again here we go more quotes.

If actually you had an idea on the cosmological constant was supposed to negate gravitational attraction and ensure a universe that is static in nature but as a matter of fact the universal expansion is accelerating showing the universe is even more random than we think.

Lets see another chance: Tell me the universal cosmological constant not just google up quotes[/s]..

You see? You proposed a designed intelligent universe only to come up with the observed universal constants.


Again you not getting the argument for intelligent design. U ain't getting why theists or even deists even use the teleologicial argument. It was probably the 1st argument u heard for the existence nd it's the most basic nd popular argument for God.

When we observe the universe we realize that several fundamental constants need to have extremely precise values for the universe to exist or support life, if 1 of these constants were off by just a hair the universe wouldn't be able to support life or even exist. This is the fine tuning I'm talking about.

Either we were just extremely lucky or the universe was just finely tune due to physical necessity.

johnydon22:
[s]
[s]Look more into astronomy, the universe is in no way a serene precise entity but rather a very chaotic random one and from these chaotic interactions comes resulting outcomes..

So why not try again and come up with actual examples[/s] ... and oh since you love Hawkins so much..

He actually is a Gnostic Atheist, the type that maintain There is no God and none necessary...

And you just proved me right... Stop the quotes and actually pull of some Astrophysics ..

Lol how did I prove u right? I quote a few physicists suddenly means I agree with everything they believe. In fact I purposely quoted hawking since he is a Atheist , just like i quoted the other 2 atheists.

U need to look up fine-tuning argument. In fact here u go :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe

Cheers

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 10:36pm On Jan 15, 2016
johnydon22:
More quotes and a logical mockery..

Anthony flew forgot that table actually is made from wood which is taken from a tree which is a living organism that is actually aware of photo sensitivity in it's environment....

Man U are on a strawman role 2night.


"Think for a minute of a marble table in front of you. Do you think that, given a trillion years or infinite time, this table could suddenly or gradually become conscious, aware of its surroundings, aware of its identity the way you are? " Anthony Flew

Where does he say wooden table?

johnydon22:

Actually it is more challenging for you though to understand that it can and you are a typical example of a conscious matter.

But consciousness didn't always exist according to atheists right? So according to atheists a marble table could become conscious given the right amount of time.

johnydon22:

Next time tell Anthony Flew the difference between a table and a tree which is Biological metabolism.. [s]Once this action ceases (biological metabolism) there can never be a consciousness..

A table is made from an already DEAD tree so its like asking me if a dead human corpse will turn into a baby..

Consciousness is a product of a living entity (An entity with metabolical activities) not the other way round[/s]..

Anthony wasn't talking about wooden tables so no 1 needs to correct him, it's just u who needs to be corrected.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 11:43pm On Jan 15, 2016
Richirich713:

Johnny the universe is finite nd contingent, whatever cuz the big bang was independent of space-time and cannot be any substance in the universe we know of.
Oh we back at this? .. I thought i gave a scientific name for such called "Singularity" in big bang cosmology is an infinite dense and hot point which is the cause of space/time, atomic and sub-atomic particles


Dear friend u seem to be the one who doesn't understand that, when u quote someone talking to some1 else make sure u remember he was talking to some1 else and not u.

Don't just rush in the discussion nd assume no atheist believes the world came from literally nothing.
And you stereotyped atheists by assuming because One thinks "Nothing" then all thinks "Nothing" ... When you have discussions with such you maintain their very personality in reference to their world view not stereotype the rest


No I just ignored u and decided to give u quotes from Atheist physicists to show u what I'm arguing for, namely the fine-tuning argument. I made that pretty clear when I brought up the precision of the of the fundamental constants of the universe at the end of my post.

Just like I ignored ur next post as soon as I saw u bring up Yahweh, since the fine-tuning argument can be use for Deism or Islam nd not just Christianity. Its main argument is for intelligence not whether this intelligent source is personal or not.[/quote]I think it shouldn't have been clear that examples are not synonymous to quotes that don't even support your proposition of intelligent design


This what happens when u jump into discussions without reading. This got nothing to do on what I was previously arguing for. It was so obvious I was arguing for intelligent design while rejecting physical necessity and mocking those who hold on to chance.
Wasn't that what that post actually addresses? That you find something to be supposedly designed doesn't mean it was..

Wasn't it why i gave the desert analogy? Who wouldn't say an invisible artist drew it, surely it was drawn straight from the mind of a conscious entity..

And to show you the serenity and precise depiction of some natural occurrence doesn't not connote design but rather pays homage to the interacting values.



Next time plz stick to what Richirich713 is arguing for.
Hell Yes that's exactly what i did

Quotes are good especially if the person has a PHD on what is being discussed. So it's good to provide some quotes to support ones claim.
Quotes are entirely different from pin pointing examples sir..


I know atheists on nairaland don't look at what the experts have to say, and won't dare quote historical scholars to support their claims that Jesus was created at the council of nicea. But that's for another topic.
Entirely your business with them


All I want to know is to do u consider the universe eternal or not?
Here we go...

Again you not getting the argument for intelligent design. U ain't getting why theists or even deists even use the teleologicial argument. It was probably the 1st argument u heard for the existence nd it's the most basic nd popular argument for God.
Countless times have i heard it and it feels old to hear it again...Buddle refutation comes to mind


When we observe the universe we realize that several fundamental constants need to have extremely precise values for the universe to exist or support life, if 1 of these constants were off by just a hair the universe wouldn't be able to support life or even exist. This is the fine tuning I'm talking about.

Either we were just extremely lucky or the universe was just finely tune due to physical necessity.
This is the point, you are a carbon based life and as such must find the conditions to which you find yourself to be exactly right..

Who says life cannot emerge if there is a slight change in fundamental constants.. "Life as regards carbon based"

Yet again the universe is not entirely conducive for life because there are several parts of the universe where the gravitational anomalies can rapture any complex molecule or extreme radiation makes it impossible.. was this also part of the design?

More like waking up and finding yourself in the Goldilock zone of the solar system and state it was specifically designed..




Lol how did I prove u right? I quote a few physicists suddenly means I agree with everything they believe. In fact I purposely quoted hawking since he is a Atheist , just like i quoted the other 2 atheists.
U need to look up fine-tuning argument. In fact here u go :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_Universe
Cheers

. Even an amoeba waking up in any random puddle out there would surely think the puddle was designed for it.

It just has the right temperature, right texture and wow the water is just fresh just as i like it..

Somewhere else deep in the cold glaciers also thrives micro-organisms fully adaptive to such extreme condition and same goes to the extremely hot volcanoes.

These life forms would also think these conditions were designed for life but under such conditions it is impossible for a human-life to thrive.

The universe was not designed for life, rather possible life forms evolved to suit it's present condition..

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 11:51pm On Jan 15, 2016
Richirich713:


Man U are on a strawman role 2night.


"Think for a minute of a marble table in front of you. Do you think that, given a trillion years or infinite time, this table could suddenly or gradually become conscious, aware of its surroundings, aware of its identity the way you are? " Anthony Flew

Where does he say wooden table?
Still falls to the same logical blunder because a marble being a product of glass, sand, clay, steel in extreme heat is a product of substances rid of normal chemical and biological activities..
[/b]

But consciousness didn't always exist according to atheists right?
[i]Am sure even you can answer that... You are matter and you are conscious and these awareness boils down to neuroperceptibility



So according to atheists a marble table could become conscious given the right amount of time.
Here we go, you will soon say i dabble into discussions without checking.. Now you have once again stereotyped from something i have never seen even one atheist say..

Please show us the atheist..

Secondly we are not the ones that think Life came from Sands being molded and breathed into



Anthony wasn't talking about wooden tables so no 1 needs to correct him, it's just u who needs to be corrected.
And Anthony made as much logical blunder as he would have if it were wooden tables

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 12:27am On Jan 16, 2016
johnydon22:
Still falls to the same logical blunder because a marble being a product of glass, sand, clay, steel in extreme heat is a product of substances rid of normal chemical and biological activities..
[/b]

But it ain't alive nor conscious and that's the whole point of the question. No matter how u try to put it, a marble table can never become conscious.

johnydon22:

[i]Am sure even you can answer that... You are matter and you are conscious and these awareness boils down to neuroperceptibility

If I were an Atheist I wouldn't have a answer.

johnydon22:

Here we go, you will soon say i dabble into discussions without checking.. Now you have once again stereotyped from something i have never seen even one atheist say..


Please show us the atheist..

I'm talking to him right now, u clearing defending the possibility of a marble table becoming conscious.

And if u not defending this view why haven't u given a firm "no" yet?


johnydon22:

Secondly we are not the ones that think Life came from Sands being molded and breathed into

No we theists think life came from a eternal conscious intelligent being.

johnydon22:

And Anthony made as much logical blunder as he would have if it were wooden tables

He didn't make a logical blunder u just saying he did since u don't have a answer to his question. Or maybe u do but u just won't say it.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 12:59am On Jan 16, 2016
Richirich713:


But it ain't alive nor conscious and that's the whole point of the question. No matter how u try to put it, a marble table can never become conscious.
And here goes more logical blunder.. A marble cannot produce light either because it lacks the interactive values necessary.. (So going by your convoluted logic since a Marble which is matter can't produce light every other matter can't.. )

Now you will realize how ridiculous and logically nonsensical it is to equate an artificially manipulate matter (marble) to every other matter abound..

But surely enough You are matter and you are conscious shows matter actually can be conscious.. That marble (artificial manipulation as a matter of fact) cannot get conscious doesn't equate such state with every matter..

So here is a logical blunder stemming from stereotypes.. Since marbles can't get conscious then all matters can't... Hear your logic huh?

This is what happens when you quote other people's idea even absurd ones


If I were an Atheist I wouldn't have a answer.
You don't really need to be because you are Matter

I'm talking to him right now, u clearing defending the possibility of a marble table becoming conscious.
Cognitive dissonance at it's peak.. I actually was the one showing you how ridiculous it was to equate a marble (inanimate object) with a matabolic entity that can birth consciousness.

Now show me where i defended that marble can turn conscious please quote that post... If you can't this will be your first lie

I am sure i am the one negating it here and showing you how ridiculous it is to even spew that, it is a mockery of logic



And if u not defending this view why haven't u given a firm "no" yet?
This is it... Please can't you give us the atheist that told you Marble table can get conscious...

If you can't it shows how well you can lie...this will be the 2nd


No we theists think life came from a eternal conscious intelligent being.
An eternal conscious being that is complex but somehow doesn't need to be designed as a matter of fact.. lmao..

Trying to explain a complex manifestation with an even more complex one..

Do not try to deviate from your Christian ideas.. we all know Christian theology proposes man moulded from sand.. That even proposes inanimate objects getting conscious at a even shorter amount of time


He didn't make a logical blunder u just saying he did since u don't have a answer to his question. Or maybe u do but u just won't say it.
You may read it up again, do i expect you to know it was a logical blunder when you are romancing the quote?

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 8:01am On Jan 16, 2016
johnydon22:
[b]And here goes more logical blunder.. A marble cannot produce light either because it lacks the interactive values necessary.. (So going by your convoluted logic since a Marble which is matter can't produce light every other matter can't.. )

Now you will realize how ridiculous and logically nonsensical it is to equate an artificially manipulate matter (marble) to every other matter abound..

But surely enough You are matter and you are conscious shows matter actually can be conscious.. That marble (artificial manipulation as a matter of fact) cannot get conscious doesn't equate such state with every matter..

So here is a logical blunder stemming from stereotypes.. Since marbles can't get conscious then all matters can't... Hear your logic huh?

This is what happens when you quote other people's idea even absurd ones
You don't really need to be because you are Matter
Cognitive dissonance at it's peak.. I actually was the one showing you how ridiculous it was to equate a marble (inanimate object) with a matabolic entity that can birth consciousness.
[/b]

Again regardless how u trying to put it, it's still illogical. Nd Flew wasn't just talking about marble.

As he clearly says below:

"It is simply inconceivable that this would or could happen. And the same goes for any kind of matter. Once you understand the nature of matter, of mass-energy, you realize that, by its very nature, it could never become “aware,” never “think,” never say “I.” But the atheist position is that, at some point in the history of the universe, the impossible and the inconceivable took place. Undifferentiated matter (here we include energy), at some point, became “alive,” then conscious, then conceptually proficient, then an “I.” But returning to our table, we see why this is simply laughable. The table has none of the properties of being conscious and, given infinite time, it cannot “acquire” such properties" Anthony Flew

johnydon22:

Now show me where i defended that marble can turn conscious please quote that post... If you can't this will be your first lie

1st u lied about the wooden table just to avoid answering the question, then u still went on to twist it the best u can still not to answer the question.

That itself shows u were defending the position, it's only now u that u agree that the marble table can never became conscious.

johnydon22:

I am sure i am the one negating it here and showing you how ridiculous it is to even spew that, it is a mockery of logic

This is it... Please can't you give us the atheist that told you Marble table can get conscious...

If you can't it shows how well you can lie...this will be the 2nd

By not answering directly I take is to defend the view especially if someone start twisting the question and lying by claiming it's about a wooden table.

johnydon22:

An eternal conscious being that is complex but somehow doesn't need to be designed as a matter of fact.. lmao..

We searching for the best explanation of the universe complexity and fine tuning,not go into a infinite regress of trying to explain the explanation of the explanation, then the explanation of the explanation then.....

This is the happens when u read Richard Dawkins advice without looking what the real Philosophers have to say.

johnydon22:

Trying to explain a complex manifestation with an even more complex one..

[s]Do not try to deviate from your Christian ideas.. we all know Christian theology proposes man moulded from sand.. That even proposes inanimate objects getting conscious at a even shorter amount of time [/s]

Aah I See if a Atheist can't answer a simple question and is done twisting it, he then out of desperation tries to change to the topic to Christianity, just like u did earlier when u suddenly started talking about the bible.

The only reason I even answered the question was not to act like a coward by answering indirectly then attack strawmans. U did the same thing in your morality thread by bringing up Islam nd Christianity.

Evens worst is the Christian view is nothing similar to the atheist, the man received conscious from a conscious and intelligent being.


johnydon22:

You may read it up again, do i expect you to know it was a logical blunder when you are romancing the quote?

Thanx 4 advice.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by plaetton: 9:33am On Jan 16, 2016
samted:


your argument is against christians and their belief in creation. let them believe what they believe. join the fight against boko haram if you must or wrestle your folks if you wish. just don't insult the beliefs of another man when it clearly doesn't affect you.

Hypocrite.
So, you don't like others criticizing your beliefs ?

Christianity, by it's very nature, is anchored upon and thrives by criticizing, mocking and damning all belief systems that do not involve Jesus and the bible.

In this era, you should always expect a pushback whenever you try to peddle silly Lethal mythologies in a public forum.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 9:37am On Jan 16, 2016
Richirich713:

Again regardless how u trying to put it, it's still illogical. Nd Flew wasn't just talking about marble.
As he clearly says below:

"It is simply inconceivable that this would or could happen. And the same goes for any kind of matter. Once you understand the nature of matter, of mass-energy, you realize that, by its very nature, it could never become “aware,” never “think,” never say “I.” But the atheist position is that, at some point in the history of the universe, the impossible and the inconceivable took place. Undifferentiated matter (here we include energy), at some point, became “alive,” then conscious, then conceptually proficient, then an “I.” But returning to our table, we see why this is simply laughable. The table has none of the properties of being conscious and, given infinite time, it cannot “acquire” such properties" Anthony Flew
Hahahahahaha now we are shifting from Marble are we? wink. Isn't remarkable how you are now changing quotes? Isn't remarkable how you are now shifting the goal from Marble?

One thing both you and Andrew Flew what it is should understand: There are properties in each atom that makes them compatible for a particular reaction, once an atom looses such properties it is certainly impossible for it reaching such specified state.

So when Andrew Flew wants to ask a question worth answering he should have pointed at something with active biological properties but No he knew if he did the question was dead on arrival so he had to use an artificial object..

Logical blunder never go cheaper


1st u lied about the wooden table just to avoid answering the question, then u still went on to twist it the best u can still not to answer the question.
Lmao nobody reading wouldn't know i first thought it was a wooden table...

Now that it is clear you cannot show us where i defended the position of artificially rendered matter getting conscious.. 1st lie confirmed



That itself shows u were defending the position, it's only now u that u agree that the marble table can never became conscious.
More glaring lies... I wonder if you guys always realize people are reading this..

They will always see i never defended artificial inanimate object getting conscious but was the one telling both you and Andrew Flew how ridiculous that was..

Even the wooden table was finely used to show you both inanimate objects lack metabolical properties.. ..


By not answering directly I take is to defend the view especially if someone start twisting the question and lying by claiming it's about a wooden table.
Here we go more.

We searching for the best explanation of the universe complexity and fine tuning,not go into a infinite regress of trying to explain the explanation of the explanation, then the explanation of the explanation then.....
[b] You are trying to explain a complex problem with an even complex answer thereby creating an even more complex problem..

Since your argument rests that the complexity of the universe suggests it must require a creator, this creator must have been even more complex than the universe...

So since complexity must require a designer, this creator in turn must require a designer there can never be two ways about it..

If you argue the designer doesn't require another designer in order to exist then doesn't it show complexity doesn't need a designer? then it nullifies your argument that the universe requires a designer..

Pulling out an even more complex designer to explain a complex manifestation drags it into an infinite regress of complex problems and causal evolution because such super complex designer needs another designer going by the argument that complexity must require design, special pleading cannot work here.

In the ever colliding reacting values, it has been shown time and again that complex matter developed from interaction of simpler matters not poofing out complexly from a super complex source
[/b]


This is the happens when u read Richard Dawkins advice without looking what the real Philosophers have to say.
I'd rather have it if Richard Dawkins reads my own write ups..

Am not the one quoting people here.. am i?


Aah I See if a Atheist can't answer a simple question and is done twisting it, he then out of desperation tries to change to the topic to Christianity, just like u did earlier when u suddenly started talking about the bible.
Am sure the premise is so so on point.. You are accusing atheist of stating an artificial inanimate object can turn conscious but cannot even provide one atheist with such stance.

Now have been reminded that your own very religion holds such view... You wanna deny your religious theology? lmao.


The only reason I even answered the question was not to act like a coward by answering indirectly then attack strawmans. U did the same thing in your morality thread by bringing up Islam nd Christianity.
Another unnecessary yapper

Evens worst is the Christian view is nothing similar to the atheist, the man received conscious from a conscious and intelligent being.
why not show us how.. let me get a sculpture for you so you can breathe into it. you are conscious so am sure you can give it consciousness
.. hahahaha


Thanx 4 advice.
Lying for God is never a good way to argue

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 9:40am On Jan 16, 2016
plaetton:


Hypocrite.
So, you don't like others criticizing your beliefs ?

Christianity, by it's very nature, is anchored upon and thrives by criticizing, mocking and damning all belief systems that do not involve Jesus and the bible.

In this era, you should always expect a pushback whenever you try to peddle silly Lethal mythologies in a public forum.

Criticism is different from outright slander and abuses my friend. Saying that a religion is a sham or its followers are stupid is not criticism. Insulting something or someone because you hold different beliefs is a sign of gross ignorance. Check yourself.
Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Richirich713: 9:45am On Jan 16, 2016
johnydon22:
Oh we back at this? .. I thought i gave a scientific name for such called "Singularity" in big bang cosmology is an infinite dense and hot point which is the cause of space/time, atomic and sub-atomic particles

And where did this singularity come from? It's origin plz?

johnydon22:

And you stereotyped atheists by assuming because One thinks "Nothing" then all thinks "Nothing" ... When you have discussions with such you maintain their very personality in reference to their world view not stereotype the rest

If a Atheist doesn't take that road he could just have ignored me, just like I ignored some comments u made on why Christians bother being good when I read them. I don't think Christians are good to avoid hell or to get in heaven but u easily stereotyped that view.

johnydon22:


I think it shouldn't have been clear that examples are not synonymous to quotes that don't even support your proposition of intelligent design


Thats why I quoted those who disagree with my conclusion, 2 of those atheists holds on to the multiverse but still admit the universe is fine-tuned. U said no one one with basic knowledge of astronomy who claim that.

johnydon22:

Wasn't that what that post actually addresses? That you find something to be supposedly designed doesn't mean it was..


Exactly u think the fundamental constants happen by chance not design and that there's a natural explanation for it. But design is more probable, chance is extremely unlikely.

johnydon22:

Wasn't it why i gave the desert analogy? Who wouldn't say an invisible artist drew it, surely it was drawn straight from the mind of a conscious entity..

And to show you the serenity and precise depiction of some natural occurrence doesn't not connote design but rather pays homage to the interacting values.


I don't think the desert screams out design, I think the precision of the constants do.

johnydon22:

Hell Yes that's exactly what i did


I don't think u did, I was arguing for the explanation of the fine tuning of the universe.

johnydon22:

Entirely your business with them


If that were true u wouldn't be going off on why I said some atheists argue that the universe literally came from nothing.

johnydon22:
Here we go...
U never give direct yes or no answers do u?

johnydon22:

Who says life cannot emerge if there is a slight change in fundamental constants.. "Life as regards carbon based"


Physicists say so John, they calculated that if there's even the slightest change to these constants, there's no possibility of life.

johnydon22:

Yet again the universe is not entirely conducive for life because there are several parts of the universe where the gravitational anomalies can rapture any complex molecule or extreme radiation makes it impossible.. was this also part of the design?

More like waking up and finding yourself in the Goldilock zone of the solar system and state it was specifically designed..
no one said life gots to be all overs the universe.

Actually it's more like not waking up or even existing.

johnydon22:

Even an amoeba waking up in any random puddle out there would surely think the puddle was designed for it.

It just has the right temperature, right texture and wow the water is just fresh just as i like it..

Somewhere else deep in the cold glaciers also thrives micro-organisms fully adaptive to such extreme condition and same goes to the extremely hot volcanoes.

These life forms would also think these conditions were designed for life but under such conditions it is impossible for a human-life to thrive.

The universe was not designed for life, rather possible life forms evolved to suit it's present condition..



Universe was not design for life? If one those fundamental constants were off by the slightest there absolutely no chance of life.

What's the best explanation of the fine tuning?

I think design and it's surely the most probable and logical.

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by johnydon22(m): 9:47am On Jan 16, 2016
samted:


Criticism is different from outright slander and abuses my friend. Saying that a religion is a sham or its followers are stupid is not criticism. Insulting something or someone because you hold different beliefs is a sign of gross ignorance. Check yourself.
Isn't this exactly same thing you lot do to other beliefs and religion and then hypocritically begs for yours to be exempted from such treatment..

Some even go as far as carrying out acts of terrorism by burning other people's place of worship, burning their own holy relics what other slander can get worse than that..

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Re: Luciferean Series I: Understanding Christianity by Nobody: 9:52am On Jan 16, 2016
johnydon22:

Isn't this exactly same thing you lot do to other beliefs and religion and then hypocritically begs for yours to be exempted from such treatment..

Some even go as far as carrying out acts of terrorism by burning other people's place of worship, burning their own holy relics what other slander can get worse than that..

What 'lot'? If you're as intelligent as you're trying to sound, you would know that generalisation doesn't quite show your brilliance. Because some people kill in the name of their god doesn't make all followers of that religion terrorists.

Where or who dyu identify with if I may ask?

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