agaugust:


To export more into your market like they sold Gripen to you and make money from you by overpriced stuff

O really?

That is their buisness model?

Buy companies for fun?

Patchesagain:


Quote where he confirmed it.

Last time you said that he himself called you out for telling lies!

Project Biro is nearing completion, deal with it.

And what of your 90% obsolete fleet?

Now you have to prove Andrew called me out. Provide that evidence.


* what he said is, anytime i need to corroborate my story, i should call(mention) him, he would support me.


Project Biro is nearing no completion, perhaps in your wet dreams, but in reality NO.


How is your 50% obsolete fleet?

Henry240:


Now you have to prove Andrew called me out. Provide that evidence.


* what he said is, anytime i need to corroborate my story, i should call(mention) him, he would support me.


Project Biro is nearing no completion.


How is your 50% obsolete fleet?

Nope.

You said he agreed with you.

Onus of proof is on you. I find it strange, why wont you substantiate this claim?

All evidence shows Biro is nearing completion, or did 80 companies bid on the tenders for fun?

Just fine - it is fully operational and is being replaced. How is your 90% obsolete 50% operational fleet crewed by sailors who cannot swim?

PS: Still waiting for you to show us how Biro is for only 3 vessles - which begs the question, are you st.upid or just trolling?

Patchesagain:


lol, maybe in Nigeria an IPV is a speed boat

Not in RSA - ours will be 50-60m with a 30mm cannon, VTOL-UAV's and dragged sonar array... you got anything like that?

No?

Ok

60m IPV ? Even the great Shaldag Ocean Interceptor is abiut 24m only ? When standard MPVs measure about 40m ? IPV with towed array sonar that ASW Frigates struggle to carry ? Are you cräzy ?

Okay SAN has not bought IPV in 30 years so you need to travel to Nigeria to see what a standard IPV looks like.

Patchesagain:


Cubans are cheaper than private sector

About a total of 2 billiion Rands to be paid by SANDF to the team of 100 mechanics from tiny Cuba that teaches your army engineers how to repair vehicles your overhyped South African defence industry built inside your own backyard !!! Shame !!!

100 Cuban mechanics X 360,000 Rands X 3 years...add free house, free transport, free mobile phones = about 2 billion Rands total project cost of Cuban mechanics team.

Show me a Zulu mechanic that earns that much in his life time !!!!!

AfroArab:


Citation needed for your 30 years ago project being the biggest ever in Africa, even 30 years after. Post proof.

If you don't believe me, go google it.

Henry240:


Point out were he said that?


He said half your fleet is obsolete


He also said you don't have the money to prosecute your defence review or any serious capital expenditure.


So jillingy, tell the world why the most "advanced" military in africa have half of it's navy fleet obsolete?

Its called LOGIC my friend!! something you have very little of.

The Valour isn't obsolete, neither are the subs, Drakensberg is getting old, but she's far from obsolete, thus that leaves as with the 4 Strike craft and 4 mine hunters.

And? we are implementing the first milestone of the Defence Review, funding will come!! might just be a next year instead of this year.

Henry240:


Technologically advanced, how?

Self sustainable, how?



Is smoking weed in South-Africa legal?


How is a defence industry which relies on europe for 80% of all components and China for 70% of it's steel self sustaining?

LinkZA,Chaka C2,Valours,Heroines,Badger,Umkhonto,A-Darter,Gripen,Hawk,Rooivalk,Rooikat,G6,G5,Batuluer,Seeker400,EW suits ect ect ect

Largest Defence industry in Africa, and one of the Largest in the world.

it illegal.

agaugust:


30 year old obsolete ship, big metal junk

Yet she's newer than the majority of your fleet

agaugust:


How is SA self sustainable? You import ALL vehicle engines for your MRAPs and IFV....you also import Cuban mechanics to teach SANDF how to repair your own SAMIL trucks that you claimed to have built locally, but need white Cuban boys to teach you how to repair and maintain your own product

# FVCKING WRECKED

Largest Defence industry in Africa, and one of the largest in the world!! That's how.

jln115:


LinkZA,Chaka C2,Valours,Heroines,Badger,Umkhonto,A-Darter,Gripen,Hawk,Rooivalk,Rooikat,G6,G5,Batuluer,Seeker400,EW suits ect ect ect

Largest Defence industry in Africa, and one of the Largest in the world.

Egypt has the largest and heaviest defence industry in Africa, they produce thousands of Abrams tanks, thousands of missiles and artillery, they also produce vehicle and aircraft engines, and tens of thousands of heavy calibre munitions like howitzer and mortar shells, tens of thiusands.

South Africa is overhyped.

Henry240:


Mumu,


Address the issue and stop moving goal post. Why do you need the tiny nation of cuba to repair the vehicles you claim to have manufactured yourselves?


Is the zulu brain shortage this chronic.

Half your fleet, 3 vessels...... Lolz, that's half your fleet( LMFAO) ...... is obsolete.

Why is this?

Who said anything about 3 vessels?? We have 4 Strike Craft and 4 Mine Hunters plus 1 Survey ship that = 9 which is about half of our blue water fleet.

agaugust:


Egypt has the largest and heaviest defence industry in Africa, they produce thousands of Abrams tanks, thousands of missiles and artillery, they also produce vehicle and aircraft engines, and tens of thousands of heavy calibre munitions like howitzer and mortar shells, tens of thiusands.

South Africa is overhyped.

18th Largest Defence industry in the World!! deal with it!!

Also Egypt is nothing without the Defensive aid of the US!!

Henry240:


Now you have to prove Andrew called me out. Provide that evidence.


* what he said is, anytime i need to corroborate my story, i should call(mention) him, he would support me.


Project Biro is nearing no completion, perhaps in your wet dreams, but in reality NO.


How is your 50% obsolete fleet?

Because like all things of this world, ships get old....believe it or not!! That's why they are being replaced by Project Biro and Project Hotel.

How is 90% of air force fleet non-operational? Also how is 50% of your Navy fleet non-operational?

Patchesagain:


8 vessels equals half the fleet

Project Biro was not set into motion by them... or else we would have got them in 1998

Where did Heitman say we have no money? Does Heitman work for the Navy or Treasury?

NNS Okpabana is obsolete in every sense of the term

Half our fleet is obsolete because it is old, and is being replaced.

Do you want me to list the obsolete vessels of your fleet? ok!

NNS Aradu (F89) -obsolete
NNS Thunder (F90) -obsolete
NNS Andoni (P100) -obsolete
NNS Ekpe (P178) -obsolete
NNS Damisa (P179) -obsolete
NNS Agu (P180) -obsolete
NNS Siri (P181) -obsolete
NNS Ayam (P182) -obsolete
NNS Ekun (P183) -obsolete
NNS Burutu (P174) -obsolete
NNS Zaria (P173) -obsolete
NNS Kyanwa (A 501) -obsolete
NNS Ologbo (A 502) -obsolete
NNS Nwamba (A 503) -obsolete
NNS Obula (A 504) -obsolete
NNS Ohue (M371) -obsolete
NNS Barama (M372) -obsolete
NNS Ambe (LST1312) -obsolete

henry, why is 90% of your fleet obsolete? Why is 50% of that non-operational?

You posted old fleet. We have a huge brand new fleet.

● NNS Centenary brand new stealth

● NNS Unity brand new stealth, delivery 2016

● NNS Zaria brand new stealth

● NNS Burutu brand new stealth

● NNS Dorina brand new

● NNS Andoni I brand new

● NNS Andoni II brand new, delivery 2016

● 1 Survey ship, construction starts 2016

● 1 Landing Ship Tank, construction starts 2016

● 9 Shaldag Interceptors, brand new

● 6 OCEA FAB, brand new

● 60 X-38 Stealth combat catamarans, brand new

● 300 IPVs and amphibious landing crafts, brand new purchased year 2006-2012

● 100 IPVs all brand new purchased 2016 Jan-Feb-Mar.



Even NATO envies the size of our new fleet....and Indian navy cannot resist signing the long term joint maritime patrol operations with Nigerian navy, they cannot find any other navy like that in Africa.

Please remind your SAN sailors not to overstay their one week visiting visa to India, tbey do not want you there more than those few days after which South African navy becomes useless to them. Don't follow Nigerian navy men around in India, we are staying long term, our level is higher than yours.
.

agaugust:


[s]60m IPV ? Even the great Shaldag Ocean Interceptor is abiut 24m only ? When standard MPVs measure about 40m ? IPV with towed array sonar that ASW Frigates struggle to carry ? Are you cräzy ?

Okay SAN has not bought IPV in 30 years so you need to travel to Nigeria to see what a standard IPV looks like.[/s]

IPV to be a minimum length of 50m armed with 30mm cannon
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6141:navy-needs-survey-ship-pvs-by-2015-&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Towed sonar array tested for Biro as well as VTOL drone testing has been well documented in this thread and the other one.

Why would we come to you to look at speed boats?

agaugust:


[s] About a total of 2 billiion Rands to be paid by SANDF to the team of 100 mechanics from tiny Cuba that teaches your army engineers how to repair vehicles your overhyped South African defence industry built inside your own backyard !!! Shame !!!

100 Cuban mechanics X 360,000 Rands X 3 years...add free house, free transport, free mobile phones = about 2 billion Rands total project cost of Cuban mechanics team.

Show me a Zulu mechanic that earns that much in his life time !!!!![/s]

Still cheaper than the private sector

agaugust:


[s]Egypt has the largest and heaviest defence industry in Africa, they produce thousands of Abrams tanks, thousands of missiles and artillery, they also produce vehicle and aircraft engines, and tens of thousands of heavy calibre munitions like howitzer and mortar shells, tens of thiusands.

South Africa is overhyped.[/s]

Egypt builds abrams tanks?

agaugust:


[s]You posted old fleet. We have a huge brand new fleet.

● NNS Centenary brand new stealth

● NNS Unity brand new stealth, delivery 2016

● NNS Zaria brand new stealth -not stealth, tiny

● NNS Burutu brand new stealth -not stealth, tiny

● NNS Dorina brand new

● NNS Andoni I brand new

● NNS Andoni II brand new, delivery 2016

● 1 Survey ship, construction starts 2016

● 1 Landing Ship Tank, construction starts 2016

● 9 Shaldag Interceptors, brand new

[s]● 6 OCEA FAB, brand new

● 60 X-38 Stealth combat catamarans, brand new

● 300 IPVs and amphibious landing crafts, brand new purchased year 2006-2012

● 100 IPVs all brand new purchased 2016 Jan-Feb-Mar.[/s]



Even NATO envies the size of our new fleet....and Indian navy cannot resist signing the long term joint maritime patrol operations with Nigerian navy, they cannot find any other navy like that in Africa.

Please remind your SAN sailors not to overstay their one week visiting visa to India, tbey do not want you there more than those few days after which South African navy becomes useless to them. Don't follow Nigerian navy men around in India, we are staying long term, our level is higher than yours.[/s]
.

1. We are talking about ships not boats

2. Most of those do not exist

3. India did not sign any patrol treaty with you

4. We wont stay long in India, we are going on to China for more exercises And dont worry, India will be back in RSA next year for the next ISAMBAR exercise

Its really pathetic how Nigerians are so desperate for glory that they make such huge mountains out of such tiny mole-hills

Patchesagain:


IPV to be a minimum length of 50m armed with 30mm cannon
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6141:navy-needs-survey-ship-pvs-by-2015-&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Towed sonar array tested for Biro as well as VTOL drone testing has been well documented in this thread and the other one.

Why would we come to you to look at speed boats?

...because you have none, or you have Shaldag interceptor class of boats?

Your source says OPV and IPV, no MPV, means the 50m vessel is actually an MPV, almost a small corvette size, tbat's not an IPV by standard classification even NATO countries use 47m as MPV not IPV.

VTOL craft? You never even got any OPV yet ! The drone will land on empty sea water?

Towed array sonar, for what? There is NOTHING like that in the source you posted, SHOW US SOURCE for your never-to-arrive 23 years on paper OPV and IPV having anti-submarine towed array sonar, show us sources to prove that !

I am waiting for your towed array sonar evidence.....now !!!!!

Patchesagain:


Egypt builds abrams tanks?

Yes

agaugust:


...because you have none, or you have Shaldag interceptor class of boats?

Your source says OPV and IPV, no MPV, means the 50m vessel is actually an MPV, almost a small corvette size, tbat's not an IPV by standard classification even NATO countries use 47m as MPV not IPV.

VTOL craft? You never even got any OPV yet ! The drone will land on empty sea water?

Towed array sonar, for what? There is NOTHING like that in the source you posted, SHOW US SOURCE for your never-to-arrive 23 years on paper OPV and IPV having anti-submarine towed array sonar, show us sources to prove that !

I am waiting for your towed array sonar evidence.....now !!!!!

We have the T-craft which suits our needs. Shaldag type craft is useless in our need for long range patrols in rough seas.

Well, our IPV is over 50m and has a 30mm gun... puts you to shame.

Who said anything about ASW? I said towed sonar array, it does many things. Its testing and evaluation has been well documented on this thread and others.

VTOL is being evaluated for use on the IPV's since they are too small for helicopters.

South Africa is not like Nigeria - we do not buy threadbare, scaled down, entry level vessels. We go for quality, not quantity.

agaugust:


Yes

Citation please

jln115:

Who said anything about 3 vessels?? We have 4 Strike Craft and 4 Mine Hunters plus 1 Survey ship that = 9 which is about half of our blue water fleet.

Patchesagain:


We have the T-craft which suits our needs. Shaldag type craft is useless in our need for long range patrols in rough seas.

Well, our IPV is over 50m and has a 30mm gun... puts you to shame.

Who said anything about ASW? I said towed sonar array, it does many things. Its testing and evaluation has been well documented on this thread and others.

VTOL is being evaluated for use on the IPV's since they are too small for helicopters.

South Africa is not like Nigeria - we do not buy threadbare, scaled down, entry level vessels. We go for quality, not quantity.

Stop this trash.

You have no strick craft. All your your strike craft have been stripped off that role and currently used for patrol. Warrior class vessels are your only OPVs currently and it's less than 60m.
Frustrated glory Hunter.

@patches, I laugh in Spanish. How will IPVs be 50-60m ship? are you that frustrated?


Pls what is the average length of MPVs and OPVs?
Even the length of your IPVs T-craft class is 22m compare that to shaldag - class which 25m.

Patchesagain:


IPV to be a minimum length of 50m armed with 30mm cannon
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6141:navy-needs-survey-ship-pvs-by-2015-&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Towed sonar array tested for Biro as well as VTOL drone testing has been well documented in this thread and the other one.

Why would we come to you to look at speed boats?

Patches, do you guys in South-Africa even know what an IPV is at all?


This was what heitman was complaining about months back. Your Navy ends up buying boats which cannot go offshore to sea and simply cannot patrol inshore. More or less a waste and a Turkey.


The average length of an IPV is 25m. Look at the shadlags, NNS Dorina, Andoni class, Burutu. Class, Ocea class. All designed to effectively carry out littoral warfare.

Patchesagain:


We have the T-craft which suits our needs. Shaldag type craft is useless in our need for long range patrols in rough seas.

Well, our IPV is over 50m and has a 30mm gun... puts you to shame.

Who said anything about ASW? I said towed sonar array, it does many things. Its testing and evaluation has been well documented on this thread and others.

VTOL is being evaluated for use on the IPV's since they are too small for helicopters.

South Africa is not like Nigeria - we do not buy threadbare, scaled down, entry level vessels. We go for quality, not quantity.

It isn't a question of putting anyone to shame. Your military yet again goes to the market and procures the wrong type of equipment.

A 50m vessel is completely useless as an IPV.

Henry240:


Patches, do you guys in South-Africa even know what an IPV is at all?


This was what heitman was complaining about months back. Your Navy ends up buying boats which cannot go offshore to sea and simply cannot patrol inshore. More or less a waste and a Turkey.


The average length of an IPV is 25m. Look at the shadlags, NNS Dorina, Andoni class, Burutu. Class, Ocea class. All designed to effectively carry out littoral warfare.

More or less an MPV with IPV characteristics.

Henry240:


It isn't a question of putting anyone to shame. Your military yet again goes to the market and procures the wrong type of equipment.

A 50m vessel is completely useless as an IPV.

Who says it is completely useless?

The vessles also have to operate as minesweeps (hence the sonar array) and the River-class is 50m

Patchesagain:

More or less an MPV with IPV characteristics.

50- 60m is a ship. According to your defence requirements it is a bad choice.

Henry240:


50- 60m is a ship. According to your defence requirements it is a bad choice.

According to the opinion of one man.

The requirements were set by the Navy after exhaustive studies by CSIR and our Maritime Think Tank.

Little speed boats like the Shaldag are useless in our vast and rough waters!

Patchesagain:


Who says it is completely useless?

The vessles also have to operate as minesweeps (hence the sonar array) and the River-class is 50m

Your navy claims to be buying an IPV, what's the essence of buying an IPV which cannot fulfill it's role requirements.



Goodluck with your bad purchase. Which actually doesn't exist.

Henry240:


Your navy claims to be buying an IPV, what's the essence of buying an IPV which cannot fulfill it's role requirements.



Goodluck with your bad purchase. Which actually doesn't exist.

Who says it cannot fulfill its role requirements?
One man when the whole navy and an independant think tank set the requirements!