₦airaland Forum

gemale:
So because d word Purgatory doesn't appear in d bible, it doesn't exist? SMH if dts 2 b true, dt means dt d trinity, nativity (birth of Christ), reincarnation (how God the son became man) r false because those words don't appear in d bible. Yes 1 is saved when 1 received Christ bt isn't it d same bible dt tell us 2 work out our salvation in fear & trembling? Purgatory is nt 4 d unrepentant or d sinners dt fails 2 acknowledge Jesus. It serves 2 cleanse us of minor stains caused by 4gten sins dt were unconfessed or unconscious sins (eg distraction during prayer) & is an instrument of penance 4 forgiven sins. D bible says "no sinner shall go unpunished" nt "no sinner shall go unforgiven". By merit of our sinful nature, we deserve damnation bt confession & true belief in Jesus Christ, we r spared dt. However we still need 2 undergo purging so dt we r made perfect as our heavenly Father is. Most tyms, we don't do sufficient penance in our life 2 be able 2 enter heaven unblemished so Purgatory strips us of such minor encumbrances & enables us 2 b pure enuf 2 c God's face.

SamJed:
Here is what the bible says... It is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement...Note the bolded...if you appoint someone for something you can reverse it for a reason...this explains why i believe most stories of people going to hell and heaven and coming back(not all are true though)...this also explains why one can be pronounced dead by doctors but after prayers by true children of God, the person will wake up...because it is appointed and not fixed... but for purgatory it is a pure lie...firstly there is no place in the bible where the word is mentioned...secondly the bible made it clear that if you receive Christ you will be saved and if you don't you are condemned...thirdly if the passage that says after death, judgement is anything to go by then purgatory is a pure lie...if there is supposed to be a clause like purgatory, it would have been included...the passage would have been "it is appointed unto man once to die, then a possible atonement while dead, then judgement.
Summary of everything i have said is that their is nothing like purgatory...it is not biblical...

SamJed:
Here is what the bible says... It is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement...Note the bolded...if you appoint someone for something you can reverse it for a reason...this explains why i believe most stories of people going to hell and heaven and coming back(not all are true though)...this also explains why one can be pronounced dead by doctors but after prayers by true children of God, the person will wake up...because it is appointed and not fixed... but for purgatory it is a pure lie...firstly there is no place in the bible where the word is mentioned...secondly the bible made it clear that if you receive Christ you will be saved and if you don't you are condemned...thirdly if the passage that says after death, judgement is anything to go by then purgatory is a pure lie...if there is supposed to be a clause like purgatory, it would have been included...the passage would have been "it is appointed unto man once to die, then a possible atonement while dead, then judgement.
Summary of everything i have said is that their is nothing like purgatory...it is not biblical...

SamJed:
Noted...but i don't think i have the strength to start arguing with u since ur mind is already made up on one area...maybe if a thread like this is opened again i will gladly argue with u...bt on the issue of minor stains the bible said in 1Cor. 13 vs 5a Examine yourself to know if you are still in the faith...the bible would have not told us to examine ourselves if there was an intermediary place where the 'small stains' would have been cleansed...also apostle Paul said in 1 Cor. 9: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. If with all the good works he did for God, Paul could say this, doesn't it tell u that he knew that if there was a stain on him, all his good works would have been forgotten and he would have gone to hell For an apostle like Paul, would 'minor stains' had given him a concern since he knew that with all his righteousness and good works God would have at least put him in purgatory where he would have been cleansed from 'small sins' because someone like Paul would have not deliberately sinned against God He knew he had to live it right with God because he knew there was no other atonement after death....so my friend, there is no atonement for sin after death in form of purgatory or whatever...every atonement is here on earth...cheers

dhardline:
That teaching will only lead one to hell,it is the devils tool to destroy many.

The simple reason is: Why strive to be sanctified here on earth if i can archieve that when i die in

purgatory?

Remember the bible said 'After death is judgement'. No intermediaries.

goodnews777:
No, here it's talking about heavenly reward for what you did on earth. It's not talking about where you are.purgatory is not the issue here. Paul the apostle says we(self included)will all appear before the judgement seat of Christ . This is to decide what rewards you deserve. Not all crowns will be the same though you made heaven.Forget purgatory , it's sinful deceit and satanic.Repent now because there is no change of staus after death

SamJed:
Here is what the bible says... It is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement...Note the bolded...if you appoint someone for something you can reverse it for a reason...this explains why i believe most stories of people going to hell and heaven and coming back(not all are true though)...this also explains why one can be pronounced dead by doctors but after prayers by true children of God, the person will wake up...because it is appointed and not fixed... but for purgatory it is a pure lie...firstly there is no place in the bible where the word is mentioned...secondly the bible made it clear that if you receive Christ you will be saved and if you don't you are condemned...thirdly if the passage that says after death, judgement is anything to go by then purgatory is a pure lie...if there is supposed to be a clause like purgatory, it would have been included...the passage would have been "it is appointed unto man once to die, then a possible atonement while dead, then judgement.
Summary of everything i have said is that their is nothing like purgatory...it is not biblical...

orisa37:
Purgatory is a word often used by Roman Catholics to mean a state we all are before the application of extreme unction.

mrtenixco1984:
God doesnt hold sin against anyone on earth,the ticket to heaven is to accept that Jesus is the son of God and confess it with your mouth,all sins are permanently forgiven while still on earth were there is grace,after death judgement.

charsola:
Is it only that passage of the Bible you know? What about the second coming? Which Bible do you use? Stop misinforming pple pls

dhardline:
That teaching will only lead one to hell,it is the devils tool to destroy many.

The simple reason is: Why strive to be sanctified here on earth if i can archieve that when i die in

purgatory?

Remember the bible said 'After death is judgement'. No intermediaries.

realchidex:
There is nothing like that in the Bible. It is a belief from the pit of hell to send billions of catholic faithfuls to hell fire.
To catholics, every member that dies goes to purgatory. For this reason, they dont strive to make heaven.
The Bible made it clear that one can make either heaven or hell and nothing more.
I wonder if they don't read Hebrew 9:27 which says that it is appointed unto men once to die and after this comes judgement.

guyXander:
If you read what he said, you wouldn't be saying this.
It takes God's grace to make heaven.
For no man's power gives him victory.
Purgatory is only for holy people who still have venial sins on them.
It is not meant for perpetual sinners, but serious Christian who happen to be in venial sin just before dying.
Remember, nothing unclean will enter heaven.
Not even and first time liar.
As little as a 'you dey crase'.
If you truly think about it, you might just say no one can make heaven. Not even a serious Christian.
Remember, the holiest man sins twice a day.
And our holiness is a rag before God.
Think of purgatory as a place where holy people are made holier or better than rag-holiness.
BENEDICAMUS DOMINUS!

Ohamzee:
Mr poster, u're very ignorant 2 open ur mouth & tell me dat d death of Christ is not sufficient for us 2 enter heaven. The bible says dat he whom d son of man sets free is free indeed. Christ also said dat his grace is sufficient for me. Its enough my Jesus died & dat he died for me. Stop decieving urself. The reason Christ went 2 preach 2 those 1s is because dey haven't known Christ & dats because Christ has not yet come during their time. I must tell u that God did not speak 2 u. dats d devil speaking. Christ died dat we might have life and have it abundantly. The bible says dat there is no condemnation to dem who are in Christ Jesus. 2 dem dat believe, he gave d power to become sons of God. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness not on purgatory. The bible says the word of God which is Jesus, is a purifier so how come u're saying contrary? Dont cause God to curse u my brother. Please find a better church lest ur case will be "my people perish for lack of wisdom"

dhardline:
Please brother let me let you know this, 'we are saved by grace and not by works let any man

should boast'.When one undergoes spiritual baptism he becomes one with Christ.God looks and

see's Christ's righteousness and not the persons cause he is now one with Christ.If you say

purgatory is to purify the little sins left then it totally nullifies the finised work on the cross.

I repeat, do not be deceived.The doctrine of salvation by grace has no provision for purgatory.

Okudiover:
Purgatory exists, it is a process meant to purify one before he enters heaven. There are sins which even a repented soul must pay before he enters heaven. Sins against the holy spirit. And yes it is implied in the Catholic bible, the book of second Machabees chapter 12 verse 36. Remember some books in the first compiled bible by the church as far back as the 4th century AD was rejected by Marin Lurthrer as false since it promoted the teachings of the Catholic Church. The book of second Machabees (one of the books rejected by Luther) said " Pray for the dead that they may be loosened from their sins. It is not imply you are praying for the dead in hell. No! Thats is simply a lack of understanding by many. Those in Purgatory have not paid for their sins against the spirit while on earth so they are purged of it before they can enter heaven.


According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:. Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

shumuel:
Nobody knows the real truth, we weren't there when God created the World nor were we there when Jesus Christ was on Earth, all we have is the Bible, and even the Bible stated that we must not add or subtract from what is already written,, so if its not in the Bible, then its false but if it is accept it for it is true.

charsola:
That's how your level of understanding Bible is, have you also read Matthew 25:31-32? I too sabi people

charsola:
Bro you are actually the one that lack knowledge here, as you can see that the Holy book Bible is not a novel or story book were anyone reads and interpret based on his own understanding, have you asked yourself if you accept christ today and sin the next day and unfortunately you die days after what do you think will be your reward? Redemption goes through with sanctification and which I think you know must pass through suffering....... Heaven Is not beans you must be holy to attain it....

guyXander:
So you mean one can sin and share Christ's righteousness and make heaven still?

Aizenosa:
Yes ooo I have come to air my view and 1st let me point to a passage in the text of the op which made me really ask a question I once asked before,

1 Pet. 3:18-19
For Christ died for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually, and in his spiritual existence he went and preached to the imprisoned spirits. These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God.


Yes the above is clearly written in your Bible no doubt, which now leads me to d question :

where were these spiritual beings before Jesus came to preach to them?

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless. Others, as the Papists, imagine the sense to be, that Christ, at his death, went in his human soul, into a place they call "Limbus Patrum", which they suppose is meant by the prison here, and delivered the souls of the Old Testament saints and patriarchs from thence, and carried them with him to heaven; but this sense is also false, because, as before observed, not the human soul of Christ, but his divine nature, is designed by the Spirit; nor is there any such place as here feigned, in which the souls of Old Testament saints were, before the death of Christ; for they were in peace and rest, in the kingdom of heaven, in Abraham's bosom, inheriting the promises, and not in a prison; besides, the text says not one word of the delivering of these spirits out of prison, only of Christ's preaching to them: add to all this, and which Beza, with others, observes, the apostle speaks of such as had been disobedient, and unbelievers; a character which will not agree with righteous men, and prophets, and patriarchs, under the former dispensation: others think the words are to be understood of Christ's going to preach, by his apostles, to the Gentiles, as in Ephesians 2:17 who were in a most miserable condition, strangers to the covenants of promise, and destitute of the hope of salvation, and sat in darkness, and the shadow of death, and, as it were, at the gates of hell; were in the bonds of iniquity, and dead in sin, and had been for long time past foolish and disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, to which they were in bondage. This is, indeed, a more tolerable sense than the former; but it will be difficult to show, that men, in the present state of life, are called "spirits", which seems to be a word that relates to the souls of men, in a separate state from their bodies; and especially that carnal and unconverted men are ever so called; and besides, the apostle is speaking of such who were disobedient in the times of Noah; and therefore not of the Gentiles, in the times of the apostles: add to which, that the transition from the times of the apostles, according to this sense, to the days of Noah, is very unaccountable; this sense does not agree with the connection of the words: others are of opinion, that this is meant of the souls of the Old Testament saints, who were , "in a watch", as they think the phrase may be rendered, instead of "in prison": and said to be in such a situation, because they were intent upon the hope of promised salvation, and were looking out for the Messiah, and anxiously desiring his coming, and which he, by some gracious manifestation, made known unto them: but though the word may sometimes signify a watch, yet more commonly a prison, and which sense best suits here; nor is that anxiety and uneasiness, which represents them as in a prison, so applicable to souls in a state of happiness; nor such a gracious manifestation so properly called preaching; and besides, not believers, but unbelievers, disobedient ones, are here spoken of; and though it is only said they were sometimes so, yet to what purpose should this former character be once mentioned of souls now in glory? but it would be tedious to reckon up the several different senses of this place; some referring it to such in Noah's time, to whom the Gospel was preached, and who repented; and though they suffered in their bodies, in the general deluge, yet their souls were saved; whereas the apostle calls them all, "the world of the ungodly", 2 Peter 2:5 and others, to the eight souls that were shut up in the ark, as in a prison, and were saved; though these are manifestly distinguished in the text from the disobedient spirits. The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, "in hell", see Revelation 20:7 when the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah; and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.

emiflex:
true

But d Protestants subtracts some books from the bible

Rawblings:
If truly there's purgatory, why did Jesus come?
It's by God's grace that we'll make heaven. There's nothing like purification after death..

Revelation 21:27New International Version (NIV)

27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

can you see revelation, nothing impure- that means if you live in sin, you can't make heaven. Again only those who have their names in the book of life will be saved.

so how does purgatory relate to this verse? Please Explain

dhardline:
Romans 6 verse 6 and 12: knowing this,that our old man was crucified with Him,that the body of sin might be done away with,that we should no longer be SLAVES to sin.

12:Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body,that you should obey it in its lusts.

I highlighted the word 'slave' .once you are saved you no longer sin knowingly,you think over your

actions and words carefully,you do not allow sin reign in you or have control over you.You do what

ever it takes to avoid it in thoughts,word and deed.You don't pick the ones to do and the ones not

to do and then give excuses to yourself.but when you sin unknowingly the Lord will reveal it to you

and you repent of the sin, this way you continue in growth hidden in the righteousness of Christ

until death.Christianity is by experience not head knowledge and the Holy spirit guides us thru

this experience.Let me give you a list of sin we commonly ignore as written by Basilea Schlink.

6. ABSENT-MINDEDNESS

7. ANGER

8. AVOIDING THE CROSS

9. BEING ANNOYED

Bitterness see Irreconciliation

Bondage to People and Things of this Earth see

Worldly Love

10. BUSYNESS

11. CONCEIT

Conformity see Pleasing People

12. COWARDICE

Craving see Greed

13. CRITICIZING

14. CURIOSITY

Daydreaminig see Absent-mindedness

15. DESIRE FOR ATTENTION

Desire for Recognition see Desire for Attention

Desire to Dominate see Love of Power

16. DISBELIEF

Discouragement see Disbelief

17. DISOBEDIENCE

18. DISRESPECT

Dissension see Quarrelsomeness

19. EGOISM

20. ENVY

Gossip see Slander

21. GREED

Hard-heartedness see Mercilessness

Haughtiness see Pride

22. HYPOCRISY

23. IMPATIENCE

24. INDIFFERENCE

25. INGRATITUDE

26. IRRECONCILIATION

Irritability see Being Annoyed

27. JEALOUSY

Judging see Criticizing

Laziness see Softness

28. LOVE OF POWER

Lukewarmness see Indifference

29. LUST

30. LYING

31. MERCILESSNESS

32. MISTRUST

Negation of Authority see Disrespect

33. PLEASING PEOPLE

34. PRIDE

35. QUARRELSOMENESS

36. REBELLION

37. REPRESSION

38. RIDICULE

Scoffing see Ridicule

Secretiveness see Lying

39. SELFISHNESS

Self-Justification see Self-Righteousness

40. SELF-PITY

41. SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS

42. SELF-WILL

43. SLANDER

44. SOFTNESS

Stinginess see Selfishness

Suppression see Repression

45. TALKATIVENESS

46. TOUCHINESS

47. UNLOVINGNESS

48. UNRELIABILITY

Unwillingness to Suffer see Avoiding the Cross

Vanity see Conceit

49. WORLDLY LOVE

50. WORRYING

Syncan:
I wonder how then you think you can make heaven, where nothing impure can enter. How many times have you lacked respect in prayers, how many times have you omitted offering help to another for one reason or the other, how many times have you spoken to another uncharitably, how many times have you been vain in speech, fashion, thoughts or expressions, how many times have you missed prayers or was late for an appointment for flimsy reasons? Do you even acknowledge these as sin and ask forgiveness? You think you can go to heaven with these? When Scripture says that the Just man falls seven times a day Prov.24:16, it wasn't talking of killing and adultery. Again, when scripture talked of "Sins that do not lead to death" 1John 5:17 it acknowledged first that all sin is sin, but still noted that not all sin merit hell fire at the time of judgement. Rather at that time, such a person will be saved, yet so as by fire 1 Cor 3:15, before entering heaven for as you've already observed, nothing impure can enter there. That's where Purgatory comes in.

Syncan:
Wonderful! Splendid. And you see yourself not guilty of any of these and more each day? If you die having offended by Impatience or ingratitude, are you going to heaven where "nothing unclean shall enter" Rev.21:27. Or will you go to hell fire with such sins that may have not pursued the grace of God from you, a sin that "leads not to death". 1Jn 5:17

dhardline:
That is the same reason i quoted the book of Romans above before listing the sins that we must fight against.

Syncan:
The book of Romans you quoted and the explanation you gave, only shows that a christian will watch over those faults and not be slave to them. It does not say that a christian will not fall into them, nor does it say if you die having committed any of them even unknowingly, that you will stroll into heaven. If I ask you now as we speak, (though you may be innocent of sins like murder, adultery, fornication, stealing etc) will you say that you are without sin?