croat:


Ratel is being partialy replaced by Patria AMV which is feared by the taliban and has a nickname "The Green Demon" since RPG's and IED's are basically useless against it.

I'l be honest. I don't understand hate or is it rivarly between you Nigerians and South African's, only thing I could find is that some Nigerians are coming to South Africa and illegally living there... Is there more historically? Something to do with Mandela?(Edit: Looked more into it, xenophobic attacks... Geez... Blaming other people for own problems...)

Anyway, you're underestimating Ratel due to being "old tech and design" while since late 1980's it packs a high-velocity 90 mm rifled cannon or ZT-3 Ingwe. Ratel 90's and ZT-3 Ingwe's destroyed T-55's in Angola in 1980's and consider this that South Africa has far more Ratel 90's and Rooikat 105's than Nigeria has T-55's. WhileRatel 90's will be an ant compared to T-72 which Nigerian Army has in service while Rooikat 105's have enough firepower to be a threat to T-72 even when confronted on front.

If Nigerian T-72 doesn't have ERA on its armor then Ratel ZT-3 will kill with only one missile and if Nigerian T-72 has ERA which absorbs atleast 800 mm RHA penetration then Ratel ZT-3's won't be able to destroy it with single missile also if T-72 is equiped with ERA that can absorb even 1300 RHA penetration then even mighty Hellfire missile won't able to one shot it since T-72 frontal armor is comparable to 350 RHA + ERA absortion of roughly 1300 RHA.

I agree with 99% of your post, but just one correction, the Ingwe can penetrate 1000mm of RHA even after a single layer of reactive armour, which in other words means it can basically penetrate any Tank on the planet.

jln115:

I agree with 99% of your post, but just one correction, the Ingwe can penetrate 1000mm of RHA even after a single layer of reactive armour, which in other words means it can basically penetrate any Tank on the planet.

That is always a possibility, but don't assume it is going to happen every single time...

Only edge that Nigeria has over South Africa is T-72 if there was strictly tank to tank battle...

I need to correct myself, I though South Africa had A/B Gripens. They have C/D and with radar upgrade in 2017, it will allow to use Meteor BVRAAM which has range of 300 kilometers and JF-17's is no match after radar upgrade...

jln115:

I agree with 99% of your post, but just one correction, the Ingwe can penetrate 1000mm of RHA even after a single layer of reactive armour, which in other words means it can basically penetrate any Tank on the planet.

Ingwe ATGM penetrate composite armour Abrams tank? You cräzy?

T-72 with Kontak ERA amour is not penetrable by even the nrw tandem warhead ATGMs, talk less of the old Ingwe that will probably miss target like Mokopa.

Nigerian army has 52 Palmaria artillery with 155mm gun having dual purpose, it has both direct and indirect fire mode and range 24 km, then has target image high powered magnification sights. Any Ratel with 5 km range Ingwe will be demolished 7 km away by Nigerian Palmaria in direct fire mode.

You think Nigerian army is same as Lesotho army?

croat:


That is always a possibility, but don't assume it is going to happen every single time...

Only edge that Nigeria has over South Africa is T-72 if there was strictly tank to tank battle...

I need to correct myself, I though South Africa had A/B Gripens. They have C/D and with radar upgrade in 2017, it will allow to use Meteor BVRAAM which has range of 300 kilometers and JF-17's is no match after radar upgrade...

-Well im just quoting information straight from Denel

-Olifant Mk1B and Olifant MK2 will easily match their T72.....Better armour,Better Fire control, carries more rounds, better range ect, only thing that the T72 has over the Olifant is a 125mm gun vs a 105mm. Also Nigeria only has 14 T72 vs over a 150 Olifant MK1Bs and MK2s.

-Yes

agaugust:


Ingwe ATGM penetrate composite armour Abrams tank? You cräzy?

T-72 with Kontak ERA amour is not penetrable by even the nrw tandem warhead ATGMs, talk less of the old Ingwe that will probably miss target like Mokopa.

Nigerian army has 52 Palmaria artillery with 155mm gun having dual purpose, it has both direct and indirect fire mode and range 24 km, then has target image high powered magnification sights. Any Ratel with 5 km range Ingwe will be demolished 7 km away by Nigerian Palmaria in direct fire mode.

You think Nigerian army is same as Lesotho army?

Uhm Yes!

Buddy 1000mm RHA after reactive armour is all I have to say!!

Ok cool buddy then we will use our 40+ G6s and just rape your army from 50km+ away!!

agaugust:
...

Ingwe ATGM penetrate composite armour Abrams tank? You cräzy?

He did not mention Abrams yet since you mention it...

Ingwe can penetrate Abrams and no tank in this world has 1000 mm HEAT protection on top/roof of the turret.

T-72 with Kontak ERA amour is not penetrable by even the nrw tandem warhead ATGMs, talk less of the old Ingwe that will probably miss target like Mokopa.

Ukranian Nozh is better against tandem warhead, but you don't have T-84 also keep low balling.

Nigerian army has 52 Palmaria artillery with 155mm gun having dual purpose, it has both direct and indirect fire mode and range 24 km, then has target image high powered magnification sights. Any Ratel with 5 km range Ingwe will be demolished 7 km away by Nigerian Palmaria in direct fire mode.

South Africa has G6 which also produces, it has range of 45 km and with special round up to 75 km.

Infantry can scout and designate with laser your medium ranged 155's, Rooivalk can fire Mokopa and it is out of range of MANPADS that Nigeria has since even if you were directly below Rooivalk that is capable to reach 6 km in air while your MANPADS 5 km.

jln115:

Im sorry buddy, as far as I know....well...and the rest of the world, Angolan people are aloud to vote for their own president and own their own companies, which would make them a democracy!!

Emotional B.S

Emotional B.S

Emotional B.S

The communist won the war. Jonas Savimbi was executed. Former communist leader Dos Santos has been President since the war ended.


Angola has a communist leaning government which enjoys strong relationships with communist China, Vietnam and an equally strong relationship with Russia.



In China, people own their own companies.

jln115:
Skinny?? Have you ever met an Afrikaner?

Dumb white South-Africans all over the place in Nigeria...... Ofcourse i have.

croat:


That is always a possibility, but don't assume it is going to happen every single time...

Only edge that Nigeria has over South Africa is T-72 if there was strictly tank to tank battle...

I need to correct myself, I though South Africa had A/B Gripens. They have C/D and with radar upgrade in 2017, it will allow to use Meteor BVRAAM which has range of 300 kilometers and JF-17's is no match after radar upgrade...

SAAF Gripens have no radar upgrade.


SAAF cannot afford BVRAAM, same way the force cannot afford the Mokopa or train more than 9 pilots.


JF-17s would shot down SAAF Gripens everytime.

agaugust:


Ingwe ATGM penetrate composite armour Abrams tank? You cräzy?

T-72 with Kontak ERA amour is not penetrable by even the nrw tandem warhead ATGMs, talk less of the old Ingwe that will probably miss target like Mokopa.

Nigerian army has 52 Palmaria artillery with 155mm gun having dual purpose, it has both direct and indirect fire mode and range 24 km, then has target image high powered magnification sights. Any Ratel with 5 km range Ingwe will be demolished 7 km away by Nigerian Palmaria in direct fire mode.

You think Nigerian army is same as Lesotho army?

Help me ask him oo... he thinks Nigerian Army is burundi army

RATEL IN THE ARMOUR OF THE NIGERIAN ARMY.......SOON A GROUND BREAKING DEAL TO BE ANNOUNCED RELATING TO THE PURCHASE OF THE ROOIVALK ATTACK HELICOPTER.

A DEAL THAT WILL SUPRISE MANY......WATCH THIS SPACE@ AUGUSTUS

Henry240:


SAAF Gripens have no radar upgrade.


SAAF cannot afford BVRAAM, same way the force cannot afford the Mokopa or train more than 9 pilots.


JF-17s would shot down SAAF Gripens everytime.

South Africa can afford, it is just that we have pledged ourselves in somehow many unnecessary social services like.

*free housing
*Child's grants
*Road accident funds
And many others.

Many of which Nigeria does not provide.

South Africa has a budget that is five times bigger than that of Nigeria. Did I have to the remind you that? We can ignore budget for other programmes like free housing and others in favour of defence.

Msauza:


South Africa can afford, it is just that we have pledged ourselves in somehow many unnecessary social services like.

*free housing
*Child's grants
*Road accident funds
And many others.

Many of which Nigeria does not provide.

South Africa has a budget that is five times bigger than that of Nigeria. Did I have to the remind you that? We can ignore budget for other programmes like free housing and others in favour of defence.

really... after all those big budget where did it lead u people to.... i guess d cowardly act displayed by yhur troops which was withdrawn frm dafur was part

[size=19]How will it be like if South Africa can put to hold some programmes like RDP just for some few years in favour of upgrading their military to that of the western countries and only just after 3-5 years resume with such projects. I know that exercise might disadvantage the poor but is that not a possibility?[/size]

kizfaz:
really... after all those big budget where did it lead u people to.... i guess d cowardly act displayed by yhur troops which was withdrawn frm dafur was part

Hey!!! Dummy. South African troops were withdrawn for international political reasons that had to do with Bashir's last years controversial visit in SA. The International Criminal Court wants to use Africa as the imperialist tool. SA for that matter is pan African and will always oppose imperialists.

Henry240:


Sharaap!!!


We also saved your skinny white as$!

Don't start with what you can't finish nigga.

Henry240:


Angola is communist, yes. Dos Santos was a former communist leader.


Your troops raped all the women in Burundi, and then fled.


You got beaten blue-black in the CAR, and you fled.


You cowards have as usual, run away from a fight. Your troops kept getting disarmed by thugs, sh1ting their pants, afraid of skinny arabs riding in toyota bakkies.

Angola, Russia and China are no longer communists. Angola ceased to become a communist the moment South Africa relaxed their tooth on them in 1992 when the communists superpowers collapsed.

The only people who were beaten blue-black and were even shown on videos fleeing is Nigerian Army. Suffering an embarrassing defeat at the hands of BH. You left your bases full of weapons and fled to the other country, not your own. I mean you fled to the other foreign country on foot. You can scream so many times about Seleka but you always shy from the fact that they lost 800 rebels to only 15 that South Africa lost. So, who got the beating? Seleka literally had to beg SA to leave them progress to the Presidential palace with a white flag. We even remained in CAR awaiting political decision to reinforce or withdraw. The decision that was taken was to withdraw and we did it leaving behind only about 20 soldiers who were initially in CAR from the start under the protection of French troops.

You are a loser!!

Henry240:


Dumb white South-Africans all over the place in Nigeria...... Ofcourse i have.

You have? You were probably in awe about how much we tower above you Nigerians.

Henry240:


The communist won the war. Jonas Savimbi was executed. Former communist leader Dos Santos has been President since the war ended.


Angola has a communist leaning government which enjoys strong relationships with communist China, Vietnam and an equally strong relationship with Russia.



In China, people own their own companies.

Bla bla bla Angolan people can own their own businesses and vote thus they are a democracy.

jln115:

You have? You were probably in awe about how much we tower above you Nigerians.

You are now displaying Msausa kind of stup1d.

jln115:

Bla bla bla Angolan people can own their own businesses and vote thus they are a democracy.

Same as China and Vietnam.

Henry240:


Same as China and Vietnam.

Do you know what communism is?

Henry240:


You are now displaying Msausa kind of stup1d.

Well then im guessing you've never met an Afrikaner.

jln115:
Do you know what communism is?

Are China and Vietnam communist states or not?

Henry240:


Are China and Vietnam communist states or not?

And what do those countries have to do with Angola??

patches689:


Since we are on the topic of identity
FYI, my name is not Patrick

Its Paul.

Kinda irritating that you keep calling me Patrick

Your name is Patrick!


If you don't like it, go hang.



I'll keep calling you Patrick.

Henry240:
...

SAAF Gripens have no radar upgrade.

Upgrade of radar's back-end/processing will be available in 2017.

Saab released in 2015 software upgrade for Mark 3 used in C/D which improves performance up to 80%.

SAAF cannot afford BVRAAM, same way the force cannot afford the Mokopa or train more than 9 pilots.

South Africa isn't threatened by anyone and money can be spent else where is more needed.

JF-17s would shot down SAAF Gripens everytime.

No, there are a few reasons...

Gripen C/D radar range with latest software upgrade is 215-220 kilometers compared to radar range of JF-17 which is 150 kilometers and Gripen C/D maximum missile range is 160 kilometers with AIM-120D which is implemented.

You're basically saying that an South Korean FA-50 will shot down an F-16 everytime.

croat:

SAAF Gripens have no radar upgrade.

Upgrade of radar's back-end/processing will be available in 2017.

Saab released in 2015 software upgrade for Mark 3 used in C/D which improves performance up to 80%.

SAAF cannot afford BVRAAM, same way the force cannot afford the Mokopa or train more than 9 pilots.

South Africa isn't threatened by anyone and money can be spent else where is more needed.

JF-17s would shot down SAAF Gripens everytime.

No, there are a few reasons...

Gripen C/D radar range with latest software upgrade is 215-220 kilometers compared to radar range of JF-17 which is 150 kilometers and Gripen C/D maximum missile range is 160 kilometers with AIM-120D which is implemented.

You're basically saying that an South Korean FA-50 will shot down an F-16 everytime.

You are hopelessly retarrded!



I'm telling you that the SAAF is broke, yet continue in your mindless tirade. How's the SAAF going to afford to carry out an upgrade, if the force is completely broke and cannot train it's pilots?


[b]"That the airborne arm of the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) has its personnel problems, particularly in high-level skills sectors such as pilots, navigators and aircraft technicians, is common knowledge. It was again raised, albeit briefly, by defence minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula at AFB Waterkloof two weeks ago.


Also



The point has apparently been reached where the SA Air Force (SAAF) is aware it cannot fulfill its defence obligations and the airborne arm of the SANDF has turned to pilots flying for the national carrier, SAA, for assistance.






By Wendell Roelf
CAPE TOWN (Reuters) - South Africa's cash-strapped armed
forces are in a "critical state of decline" that will take at least
a decade to fix even with urgent action, according to a
military strategy review seen by Reuters.
It said "neglect" of defense capability could impact
everything from border security to trade and constrain
Pretoria's continental peace-keeping and diplomatic
ambitions.
"[/b]



Stop posting trash.

Henry240:


You are hopelessly retarrded!

I'm telling you that the SAAF is broke, yet continue in your mindless tirade. How's the SAAF going to afford to carry out an upgrade, if the force is completely broke and cannot train it's pilots?

[b]"That the airborne arm of the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) has its personnel problems, particularly in high-level skills sectors such as pilots, navigators and aircraft technicians, is common knowledge. It was again raised, albeit briefly, by defence minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula at AFB Waterkloof two weeks ago.

Also

The point has apparently been reached where the SA Air Force (SAAF) is aware it cannot fulfill its defence obligations and the airborne arm of the SANDF has turned to pilots flying for the national carrier, SAA, for assistance.

By Wendell Roelf
CAPE TOWN (Reuters) - South Africa's cash-strapped armed
forces are in a "critical state of decline" that will take at least
a decade to fix even with urgent action, according to a
military strategy review seen by Reuters.
It said "neglect" of defense capability could impact
everything from border security to trade and constrain
Pretoria's continental peace-keeping and diplomatic
ambitions.
"[/b]

Stop posting trash.

I am apparently retarrded and I am posting trash according to you... No, I haven't and you have done it and now you're unsatisfied with factual response. How SAAF can't upgrade Gripen's when they can because it is software not hardware upgrade, learn the difference between software and hardware then claim if they can or can not. JF-17 is comparable to South Korean FA-50 in price and performance.

I have proved many people like you on defence.pk wrong and they shut up after that... It seems its different on african forums where people are sore losers, actually it reminds me how you nigerians and south africans harass each other like pakistanis and indians on defence.pk which is pathetic and so what that South African National Defense Force is on life-support, if there was ever a war then massive funds would have been poured and their defense industry would be kickstarted and producing weaponry like Soviet Union did during World War 2.

If Nigeria and South Africa went head to head now... SANDF would overrun you with divisons upon divisions armored vehicles and having total air superiority. South African trainer jets Hawk 120 have same if not longer range air to air missiles then your outdated chinese Mig-21 bootlegs.

Stop with the wet dreams of Nigeria being continental power in near future.

South Africa has submarines while your anti submarine warfare helicopters are in storage or can't work.

First invest in maintaining your vehicles or at least make decent storage facilities.

If you were like pakistanis, you would be preserving and maintaining your army as if its the gold or oil...

croat:


I am apparently retarrded and I am posting trash according to you... No, I haven't and you have done it and now you're unsatisfied with factual response. How SAAF can't upgrade Gripen's when they can because it is software not hardware upgrade, learn the difference between software and hardware then claim if they can or can not. JF-17 is comparable to South Korean FA-50 in price and performance.

I have proved many people like you on defence.pk wrong and they shut up after that... It seems its different on african forums where people are sore losers, actually it reminds me how you nigerians and south africans harass each other like pakistanis and indians on defence.pk which is pathetic and so what that South African National Defense Force is on life-support, if there was ever a war then massive funds would have been poured and their defense industry would be kickstarted and producing weaponry like Soviet Union did during World War 2.

If Nigeria and South Africa went head to head now... SANDF would overrun you with divisons upon divisions armored vehicles and having total air superiority. South African trainer jets Hawk 120 have same if not longer range air to air missiles then your outdated chinese Mig-21 bootlegs.

Stop with the wet dreams of Nigeria being continental power in near future.

South Africa has submarines while your anti submarine warfare helicopters are in storage or can't work.

First invest in maintaining your vehicles or at least make decent storage facilities.

If you were like pakistanis, you would be preserving and maintaining your army as if its the gold or oil...

The SAAF cannot afford a software upgrade because they do not have the resources to do so. The JF-17 is better than SAAF Gripens, this is a fact we've gone over on multiple occasions.



"As specific examples, the report cited a lack of proper
ammunition, ageing military transport planes and "block
obsolescence" of the army's prime mission equipment, such
as infantry trucks.

The required ammunition stock for the national reserve is
supposed to supply an army mechanized brigade for 90
days in a mixture of high, medium and low intensity
operations, but current ammunition levels can "by no
means" support this level."


This is the military that would overrun the Nigerian military, are you high?



"the report also said a lack of funding was
preventing modernization of the 97,000-strong armed
forces, including regulars, reserves and civilian staff."



The point has apparently been reached where the SA Air Force (SAAF) is aware it cannot fulfill its defence obligations and the airborne arm of the SANDF has turned to pilots flying for the national carrier, SAA, for assistance.
The Afrikaans Sunday paper Rapport said it has a copy of a memorandum sent to South African Airways (SAA) pilots last week. It asks them to help out as reserve pilots at a “few SAAF squadrons”. The paper points out the “emergency call” came in the same week the National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) informed Parliament it could not depend on the air force in the event of a major shipping disaster, such as the Oceanos sinking in 1991.




You should instead be advising the South-African military you seem to love so much.

Henry240:
The SAAF cannot afford a software upgrade because they do not have the resources to do so. The JF-17 is better than SAAF Gripens, this is a fact we've gone over on multiple occasions.

"As specific examples, the report cited a lack of proper
ammunition, ageing military transport planes and "block
obsolescence" of the army's prime mission equipment, such
as infantry trucks.

The required ammunition stock for the national reserve is
supposed to supply an army mechanized brigade for 90
days in a mixture of high, medium and low intensity
operations, but current ammunition levels can "by no
means" support this level."

This is the military that would overrun the Nigerian military, are you high?

"the report also said a lack of funding was
preventing modernization of the 97,000-strong armed
forces, including regulars, reserves and civilian staff."

The point has apparently been reached where the SA Air Force (SAAF) is aware it cannot fulfill its defence obligations and the airborne arm of the SANDF has turned to pilots flying for the national carrier, SAA, for assistance.
The Afrikaans Sunday paper Rapport said it has a copy of a memorandum sent to South African Airways (SAA) pilots last week. It asks them to help out as reserve pilots at a “few SAAF squadrons”. The paper points out the “emergency call” came in the same week the National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) informed Parliament it could not depend on the air force in the event of a major shipping disaster, such as the Oceanos sinking in 1991.

You should instead be advising the South-African military you seem to love so much.

You want to believe that which is aided by the fact that you are uninformed...

How can't SAAF not afford upgrading the software? Again, learn the difference between software and hardware.

JF-17 can't be better than Gripen... Nigeria is going to get JF-17 Block 2 which is in production while JF-17 Block 3 will be competitive to Gripen and even equal if it uses French engine from Snecma M53-P2, but JF-17 Block 3 is expected in production in 2019.

You're high if you don't believe that SANDF can't overrun Nigerian army, what you posted only indicates that SANDF doesn't have resources for the occupation in case of resistance and that SANDF has enough resources to: Veni, vidi, vici ...

croat:


You want to believe that which is aided by the fact that you are uninformed...

How can't SAAF not afford upgrading the software? Again, learn the difference between software and hardware.

JF-17 can't be better than Gripen... Nigeria is going to get JF-17 Block 2 which is in production while JF-17 Block 3 will be competitive to Gripen and even equal if it uses French engine from Snecma M53-P2, but JF-17 Block 3 is expected in production in 2019.

You're high if you don't believe that SANDF can't overrun Nigerian army, what you posted only indicates that SANDF doesn't have resources for the occupation in case of resistance and that SANDF has enough resources to: Veni, vidi, vici ...

You need to go back to your medications.