₦airaland Forum

Olumyco:
Many issues here require theological and philosophical approach. Not half knowledge. They r deep tins and need to b dug out.

I will like to react to the issue of Christmas.


First of all, there is a record of the first Christmas celebrated in Bethlehem by the Angels, the shepherds and the wise men.

Luke 2:1-7, Mathew 2:1-12 ..........


I know many will contend this but it is a fact for those who understand Christianity, celebration and how bible documents events.

Three tins to be understood

*Christianity
*Celebration
*Bible documentation of Events

Christianity is like a profession dat u go abt to advertise to others so as to make them join the profession. Christianity is characterized with evangelism - spreading the good news - Christ birth, cruxificion, death and resurrection. This is the hub of Christianity. The whole tin can be called in one world to be GOSPEL.
So anytin dat will help spread the Gospel keys in into the system as long as it Is not carnal. Christmas helps to spread d news abt d birth of Jesus.

The Celebration issue comes in dis way. How do U celebrate a big person or someone U love?

Now the Angels appeared to d Shepherds and sang Glory be to God In the Highest. Meaning they rejoiced because Jesus was born. The Shepherd acted based on what the first Angel dat appeared told them and when they found Jesus at the manger they worshipped Him.

Now imagine, God put a bright star in the sky as regards d birth of Jesus which the wise men saw and led them to Bethlehem to see Jesus.
These wise men presented Jesus with GIFTS.

Some pple might be saying dat all dis happened at d time time of the birth of Jesus but av U considered the years it took the wise men travelling from the east to get to Jerusalem and from Jerusalem to Bethlehem? It would av taken them more than a year. There were no cars or any fast means. You could imagine d believe and d determination of dese wise men. despite d fact dat d birth of Jesus had past, despite d fact that d shepherds had visited Jesus a long tym ago and so on, they were still able to find Jesus and CELEBRATED HIM.
By Celebrating Him, they bowed/worship Jesus and they presented Him with gifts.

Also the Shepherds after they have seen the Babe Jesus propagated the news so that all could hear. LUKE 2:17

Now this was the first record of the commemoration of the birth of Jesus.

The greatest celebration of Jesus is by GIVING ONE'S LIFE TO HIM. That is by getting saved.

Pls the celebration of the Birth of Christ is very important to us as Christians. It has a lot of benefit when it done right. The problem with many Christians today is dat they don't know dat Christmas is more than eating, wining and dining. It Is a time to reflect, rededicate and worship Christ. The other parts of d celebration like beautification, boxing, programs are spices and packages that makes the celebration rich. To me it just a brand. Many tins av brands.

Also many pple here r talking abt paganism......... going by history. There r many approaches to it.
Now we need to understand Christianity. Let's look at dis. If a pastor goes to where the Ogun worshippers r gathered and he preached to them and many of them get saved and the king now order dat today will no longer be used for the worship of Ogun but for the worship of The GOD ALMIGHTY. And because we are social beings by design, everybody agreed to b using dat day to commemorate d time Christianity enters into their town every year......... So with dis, is the process of d CHANG OF PURPOSE wrong her? Or what effect would d former worship have on the new worship?

In Africa b4 d advent of Christianity in our continent we were given to idolatry and instruments like gangan "talking drum", bata etc were used to worship gods but now when we received d light we had a change of purpose and today some of these instruments like gangan r used in our Christian worship.
If we want 2 base many tins on history without considering CHANGE OF PURPOSE then Christianity will b difficult 2 practice in Africa.

Besides, d so called the worship of Saturnalia is done on Dec 17 to 23 according 2 Julian calendar. There r many calenders and d festival had witnessed many modification by various emperor. B4 it used 2 b a one day celebration which is always on Dec 17 b4 Julius Ceaser added 2 days to it and from there to 5 days and so on ......... These pple den did not know Christ and were just doing what dey like but suddenly the flood of Christianity wipe off dier festival and grounded Christmas. Just as the ministry of Paul overcame d worship of d Diana god which made dat blacksmith to loose his business of making and selling the carved images of Diana.

No matter what anyone says celebrating Christmas is not a sin it Is how we celebrate it - in holiness

Then as regards Bible documentation, there r some events / analysis in d Bible dat we don't find their exact word in d Bible but yet they exist...........

If we study our Bible very well there r words to describe some events dat r not written in d Bible and we Christians looks 4 d appropriate word dat fits d event.
because some pple might say d word Christmas or celebration of Jesus birth is not in d Bible but thank God my analysis above solves dat. All d events dat surrounds d Birth of Jesus describes d word Christmas.
There r examples of dis kind of a tin like d word "Trinity" is not in d Bible but we av events in d Bible dat describes it.

Also there is no word like rapture in d Bible but we av events dat describe it and so on.

Well, we r all free to choose what we believe but my own Believe is dat Christmas is right and there is no where in d Bible that it is said to b wrong and dat it is a sin.

Thanks

Those Scriptures u cited gives no hint as to Christmas celebration. There was happiness around as to the birth of a newborn. That's not new. After that, how many Christians celebrated that event in subsequent years?

sarutobie:
Yes! To dispel the doctrine of honoring and bowing down to graven images because the image represents "the mother of god".. Even Christ made it clear that even before David who people referred him to as " the son of David " he was and is..

he is still a descendant of david who he created.

Sanchez01:
Sorry, Mary's mission was never prophesied by anyone. What you're quoting is actually the curse God put on the serpent for beguiling Eve. Eve and Mary are not the same.
- Gen 3:15
Would be waiting for the passage though.

it seems u dont know what a prophesy is, gen 3:15 is called d protoevangelium in christianity, christians from early times interprete it as God detailing his salvation plan by telling d devil of an enmity he has establish between d devil and the woman (d said the woman, not this woman) and her seed. Isaiah repeats it he said a woman shall concieve and bears a son, that woman is mary... Is 7 and is 9. That is a prophesy abt mary.

Ubenedictus:
it seems u dont know what a prophesy is, gen 3:15 is called d protoevangelium in christianity, christians from early times interprete it as God detailing his salvation plan by telling d devil of an enmity he has establish between d devil and the woman (d said the woman, not this woman) and her seed. Isaiah repeats it he said a woman shall concieve and bears a son, that woman is mary... Is 7 and is 9. That is a prophesy abt mary.

How about photosynthesis Please stop twisting the Bible. The "prophecy" you claim to see there is a curse to the serpent and not a prophecy. Why not twist the one where God cursed the woman to be a prophecy, or where he said man would till the ground before he would eat You're quick to pick out what you have been taught to believe. Please show me a prophecy about Mary's divinity and stop coining the account of Eden to be Mary's. The enmity between man and serpents, regardless of how harmful or harmless they are is as a result of Genesis 3:15 and not one Catholic-Latin belief.

Sanchez01:
How about photosynthesis Please stop twisting the Bible. The "prophecy" you claim to see there is a curse to the serpent and not a prophecy. Why not twist the one where God cursed the woman to be a prophecy, or where he said man would till the ground before he would eat You're quick to pick out what you have been taught to believe. Please show me a prophecy about Mary's divinity and stop coining the account of Eden to be Mary's. The enmity between man and serpents, regardless of how harmful or harmless they are is as a result of Genesis 3:15 and not one Catholic-Latin belief.

it is easy to see you dont want to learn but want to teach, why not just type proto evangelium on google and see what it is. prophesy come in different shapes, d one of a woman having a child by d prophett isaiah was meant for hezekiah yet hezekiah was long dead when it was fulfilled, does that mean it wasnt still about mary and Jesus? The psalm dat says thou art my son today i have begotten u was a song at crowning a new king yet paul says it refers to Jesus. God was ggiving judgement is gen 3 and went on to prophesyy an enmity he himself will create beween d woman and her offspring, he didnt say women or offsprings, he was specific one woman one offspring. That is not abt eve

I have never said mary is God so stop asking me to prove a claim i didnt make but to claim that there was no prophecy on mary is a lie.

Sanchez01:
How about photosynthesis Please stop twisting the Bible. The "prophecy" you claim to see there is a curse to the serpent and not a prophecy. Why not twist the one where God cursed the woman to be a prophecy, or where he said man would till the ground before he would eat You're quick to pick out what you have been taught to believe. Please show me a prophecy about Mary's divinity and stop coining the account of Eden to be Mary's. The enmity between man and serpents, regardless of how harmful or harmless they are is as a result of Genesis 3:15 and not one Catholic-Latin belief.

www.gotquestions.org/protoevangelium.html

That is a protestant website go and learn what d proto evangelium is, it isnt just a catholic tin..
www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/old-testament-prophecies/what-is-the-protoevangelium-protoevangelion.html

Add that

micodon:
A simple question to you is: Where in the Bible did anyone celebrate Christmas?

The shepherds or wise men celebrated Jesus birth.
Where in the Bible is it written that celebration of Christmas is a sin? Have told you the simple reason for the choice of 25th December as the date of birth of Christ, present your objection with rationale and if possible give an alternative date with your reason OR forever hold your peace on the matter

micodon:
Those Scriptures u cited gives no hint as to Christmas celebration. There was happiness around as to the birth of a newborn. That's not new. After that, how many Christians celebrated that event in subsequent years?

Get dis right abt Christmas. We r not celebrating the day Jesus was born but the significance attached to His birth. The Angels, Shepherds and the Wise Men did not celebrate the day Jesus was born like our normal birthday but celebtated it by rejoicing and worshipping because the person who will deliver the whole human race in the world from eternal damnation has been born.
That was why the host of heaven (Angels) sang in Luke 2 : 14 - "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men".

There is difference between celebrating the "day" (birthday of Jesus) and celebrating the significance, purpose and value of the Birth of Jesus.
Jesus was not just born into the World as at d time Mary gave birth to Him but He had existed right from the inception of the World. The day He came is of no value to us but His purpose of coming. That is why d issue of the date is nothing as regards Christmas. We r not celebrating "day" but "significance".

Then what U called happiness cheaply is more than that. The events that happened dat time were more of happiness. I can put it dis way: happiness + worship + deliverance + evangelism.

U will av to change d way U view Christmas. The Angels took it up (i.e the significance of the birth of Jesus) so that the news could spread by appearing to d Shepherds. God himself took it up by putting a star in the heavenlies to spread the news. The Shepherds themselves spread the news according to Luke 2:17. The Apostles too in the subsequent times spread the news about the birth of Jesus. Check their preachings and you will see how the news abt His birth was spread.

So like I said we humans are social beings and that anytin dat spread the good news abt Christ easily key in into Christianity. So the then Chrsitians took it up and formed and event around it to spread the news abt the significance of the birth of Jesus which is called Christmas. Nothing has changed but method. It is still desame celebration just like dat of the Angels, shepherds and d wise men. We av only upgraded it to be a formal celebration having different tins in it like beautifications and so on which is just branding.

U might want to contest dis but av U considered dat d way we conduct Church services 2day is totally different from how the apostles of that time conducted their services. The way we do baptisimal service today is different from d way it was conducted by d apostles den. But looking at d purpose it has not changed but d method had bin upgraded in our own time.

The way Christmas was celebrated thru out d Bible was more of spreading the news abt his birth which leads to salvation but today we have bin able 2 to upgrade it into a more elaborate celebration which still fulfil d spreading of the news abt Jesus birth, worshipping Christ and by surrendering one's life to Him.

We have a basis in the Bible. We shud be more concerned today abt how people will get saved thru thru d progragation of the Gospel in which Christmas celebration is just a part.

Ubenedictus:
it seems u dont know what a prophesy is, gen 3:15 is called d protoevangelium in christianity, christians from early times interprete it as God detailing his salvation plan by telling d devil of an enmity he has establish between d devil and the woman (d said the woman, not this woman) and her seed. Isaiah repeats it he said a woman shall concieve and bears a son, that woman is mary... Is 7 and is 9. That is a prophesy abt mary.

I would be coming at you with the bolded in your claim. With the bolded, I'm sure you mean to say "the woman" is not EVE but MARY or perhaps, some other woman, simply because Eve was not referred to as "this woman" in Genesis 3:15? Perfect! Here are several reasons why the article "the" was used in Gen 3:15
NB: 'THE" in English language is called an article and it does not belong to any of the word classes or parts of speech in English language.

1. When the article "the" is used to refer to someone or something, it implies that thing or person is the only thing or person, hence, there is no reason to be specific
2. I'm sure you'd agree with me that Eve is the first woman ever created and she is the first and only woman ever to step into and live in Eden. Since there was just one woman at the time, it was quite convenient to refer to her as "the woman". Check out the passage below (Genesis 3:8-16);

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Notice "the man" and "the woman" all over the passage. It was never necessary to be specific because they were the only humans at the time. Every man and woman, save Adam, are offspring of Eve, including Mary herself. Abraham, said to be the father of all nations is an offspring of Eve. So, to jump the genealogy of Christ, directly to Mary is laughable.

Concerning Isaiah, yes, there is a prophecy about the birth of Christ and not about Mary. Please note that the focus is on the child, His attributes and what will become/befall him and not what will happen to the mother. It cannot be about Mary when the passage clearly gives detailed information on Christ. Isaiah 9:6-7

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given", kindly explain how Mary fits into the prophecy as she is not even mentioned directly. It could have been anyone, and indeed it was anyone and that was why it was Mary. The only thing we know about Mary in the Scripture is that she was a virgin, nothing more. If God had wanted to accord her 'honour and worship', He would have in plain words. By the way, thanks for the links on "Protoevangelium". It is indeed insightful.

Sanchez01:
Sorry, Mary's mission was never prophesied by anyone. What you're quoting is actually the curse God put on the serpent for beguiling Eve. Eve and Mary are not the same.
- Gen 3:15
Would be waiting for the passage though.

Let me begin my defence of the Catholic Church and its devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary by the consideration of the similarities between the Fall of Man and the Redemption of Man.
In the Book of Genesis, we read how our first parents, Adam and Eve, fell into original sin. Satan, in the form of a serpent, first tempted Eve. When Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, she then offered it to Adam, who also partook. Adam, as Head of the Human Race, brought about the Fall of Mankind; it was, however, through the cooperation of Eve.
When Adam and Eve had fallen, Almighty God not only punished them and their progeny for this original sin, but He also promised to send a Redeemer.
“And the Lord God said to the serpent... I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel” (Genesis 3:13-15).
Who is the “woman” in the text of Holy Scripture of whom Almighty God set enmities against Satan? Who is “her seed”? What is meant by the words “and she shall crush thy head”?
In the Old Testament, Adam brought about the Fall of Mankind with the cooperation of Eve. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ, the God-Man, brought about our Redemption with the cooperation of the Virgin Mary. Eve, our first parent, was tempted by a fallen angel to disobey the command of God, and she subsequently led Adam into sin. In the New Testament, another angel, the Angel Gabriel, announced the will of God to the Virgin Mary and she, unlike Eve, humbly submitted.
In the Gospel of St. Luke, we read:
“The Angel Gabriel was sent to a Virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the House of David; and the Virgin’s name was Mary” (Luke 1:27).
How did the Angel Gabriel then address her? The Gospel of St. Luke continues:
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women!”
“Fear not, Mary, for thou has found grace with God. Behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His Name, Jesus... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy One which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Who can deny the dignity of the Virgin Mary — chosen to be the Mother of Jesus Christ? The Angel Gabriel, who was sent by God Himself, honored and praised her.
Furthermore, when the Virgin Mary visited her cousin, St. Elizabeth
“was filled with the Holy Ghost, and she cried out with a loud voice and said: ‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?’”
Once again, honor and praise is rendered to the Virgin Mary by St. Elizabeth, “who was filled with the Holy Ghost”
Then during this same visitation, the Virgin Mary responded to her cousin’s praise of her by the prayer so full of humility and of praise to God:
“My soul doth magnify the Lord... because He hath regarded the humility of His handmaid; for behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He that is mighty hath done great things to me.”
As Catholics, members of the one, true Church of Christ, we honor the Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ. We call her the Mother of God, because she indeed is the Mother of the one Divine Person, Jesus Christ, Who has both the nature of God and the nature of Man. By this title of “Mother of God,” we simply refer to the Virgin Mary as St. Elizabeth did when “filled with the Holy Ghost she cried out... Whence is this to me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?”
Catholics do not, as Protestants falsely believe, worship the Blessed Virgin Mary. We honor her who was so intimately connected with Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Yes, there is only one Mediator with the Father — Jesus Christ. Only the God-Man Jesus Christ could have redeemed mankind. Nevertheless, we pray to Mary that she may intercede for us with her Divine Son. How often we request the assistance of prayers from our fellow men — how much more powerful are the prayers and intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary! In the Old Testament, we read how Moses prayed with arms outstretched and interceded with God to procure the victory of the Israelites over their enemies in a crucial battle. As long as he prayed, they were victorious. When he ceased his prayers, the Israelites began to lose. Because of this, it was necessary for two men to hold up Moses’ arms in prayer until the battle was won. Also, we read in the Old Testament how Josue prayed to God to have the day prolonged in order to win another crucial battle. If Moses and Josue could have such intercession before God, how much more powerful are the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
The Gospel of St. John relates two significant accounts which relate to Mary — the wedding feast of Cana and the Crucifixion. Of the first account we read:
“There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the Mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and His disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the Mother of Jesus said to Him, ‘They have no wine.’ And Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, what is it to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.’ His Mother said to the waiters, ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye’” (John 2:1-5).
Jesus Christ then proceeded to work His first public miracle at His Mother’s request. Everything related in the Gospels is inspired by God, and there is a reason for it. Does not this narrative of the wedding feast manifest the intercessory power of Mary with Jesus Christ, her Divine Son?
In the second account, also take from the Gospel of St. John, we read:
“There stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother... When Jesus therefore had seen His Mother and the disciple standing whom He loved, He saith to His Mother: ‘Woman, behold thy son...’” (John 19:25-27).
Just as Eve cooperated with Adam in the Fall of mankind, the Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated with Jesus Christ in our redemption. She “stood by the Cross of Jesus.” What anguish, what sorrow did the Mother of Jesus experience at the foot of the Cross as she witnessed the sufferings and death of her Divine Son!
In both accounts, Jesus addressed Mary by the term woman. In Hebrew the word used by Jesus was a term which would be addressed to a queen or a woman of high rank. It was a term of great respect.
But why did Jesus Christ address His Mother by the term woman at these two significant moments in His life — at His first public miracle, and at His Crucifixion on the Cross?
Our Divine Lord wanted to clearly indicate that His Mother was the Woman spoken of in the Book of Genesis:
“I will put enmities between thee (Satan) and the Woman, between thy seed and her seed, and she shall crush thy head.”

In conclusion, let us, as members of Christ’s one, true Church, fulfil the prophecy made by the Blessed Virgin Mary during her visit to St. Elizabeth — “Behold henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

Thnk you.

In as much as I totally agree with you on almost all the points, I still have my reservations on the Christmas. Christ wasn't referring to days of worship/celebration but mode of worship. If Christmas becomes an issue, then I am afraid Sunday worship becomes an issue too.
We are talking about doctrines like tithing, touch not my anointed, etc which only place men like gods above their fellow men.

Sanchez01:
Everyone loves Christmas. I love it. But the big question is why December 25, the same as the celebration date of a Roman god? Christianity adopted a pagan practice here. Please ignore Paul's assertion. Were there Pagan practices in the Old Testament? Yes? And most of them corrupted the then Israel. Saul and Solomon are too few examples of people pagan practices corrupted. The big problem is here is Constantine, the then Roman Emperor who merged Pagan practices with Christian ways. Everybody loves Christmas, we celebrate Christ, perhaps, but is the day really the birth day of Christ? No!

poik:
Oh, brother.
Jesus said, i have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Most of those things that you cited were shadows of things to come by virtue of the coming dispensation of grace, they do not mean they are abolished. But grace is a snare and many do not know it. Yes we don't stone adulterers now, and you are deceived into believing they will go free? Impossible. Even after you confess, the consequences will catch up with you one way or another. Its in the new testament the Bible says 'hand in hand, no sinner will go unpunished'. Don't forget that.
In law, you have to have two eyewitnesses to adultery, but in grace, simple list is enough to indict. Its even more deadly.
That's why grace makes way for what can help us live through the harshness of it: the Holy Ghost. That is the simple answer.

Sir, you said Grace is a snare, that means Grace is a trap {a deceptive trap sort of]. Please I beseech you sir, cancel that definition of Grace from your mind, Grace is not a trap. Jesus did not condemn that adulterous woman and He also never tolerated her adultery, let me give you my expressive thought here Sir, that woman could have gone away without ever committing adultery again because she received grace and she could have also gone away still struggling with the sin even though she received a sort of grace. The difference is as far as She has a true and sincere desire to overcome that adultery, She will receive the grace one day (It could be instant or it could take time, God knows why some people change suddenly from a particular sin and why it takes some people to toil and toil with the same sin for over 5 yrs before changing), the other side of the coin is if she goes on sinning without a true desire to change, the grace will expire one day by maybe means of Her dying in the sin or her just totally backslidden and reaching a point of no return.
In the case of the Mosaic Law, She would have been automatically condemned without even needing to have any desire to change once she was caught, but with Grace, She will eventually be healed and overcome the sin if She has the desire. Afterall, scriptures says you will seek me and find me when you do with all your heart, therefore, Gods grace is not what you look for like a ten Naira note you lost in a dark room or on a field(you don’t look for it with sweat over a long time), but it’s what you look for like a 1 million naira cheque that dropped from your wallet, you will never leave that room until you find that cheque, so when I say Grace, I by no way mean you’re fine, your sin is covered, chill and keep on sinning, but rather it’s what we can receive if we diligently and truthfully seek for Grace in any area.
The Law could never make people righteous with God, no matter how much tithe or Sabbath you obey, Christ fulfilling the law is simply “Christ came to fulfil the demands of the law by attaining a righteousness that no man who lived before Him could attain". Now we can be perfect even as our Lord is perfect because we now have an example to follow, we have a high Priest (Hebrews 8:1) seated in heaven, We have a priest who learned obedience by the things he suffered (Hebrews 5:. The question every Christian should ask is what will God have me do now or what will Christ do in this situation and not simply acting coldly and dry.

Olumyco:
Get dis right abt Christmas. We r not celebrating the day Jesus was born but the significance attached to His birth. The Angels, Shepherds and the Wise Men did not celebrate the day Jesus was born like our normal birthday but celebtated it by rejoicing and worshipping because the person who will deliver the whole human race in the world from eternal damnation has been born.
That was why the host of heaven (Angels) sang in Luke 2 : 14 - "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men".

There is difference between celebrating the "day" (birthday of Jesus) and celebrating the significance, purpose and value of the Birth of Jesus.
Jesus was not just born into the World as at d time Mary gave birth to Him but He had existed right from the inception of the World. The day He came is of no value to us but His purpose of coming. That is why d issue of the date is nothing as regards Christmas. We r not celebrating "day" but "significance".

Then what U called happiness cheaply is more than that. The events that happened dat time were more of happiness. I can put it dis way: happiness + worship + deliverance + evangelism.

U will av to change d way U view Christmas. The Angels took it up (i.e the significance of the birth of Jesus) so that the news could spread by appearing to d Shepherds. God himself took it up by putting a star in the heavenlies to spread the news. The Shepherds themselves spread the news according to Luke 2:17. The Apostles too in the subsequent times spread the news about the birth of Jesus. Check their preachings and you will see how the news abt His birth was spread.

So like I said we humans are social beings and that anytin dat spread the good news abt Christ easily key in into Christianity. So the then Chrsitians took it up and formed and event around it to spread the news abt the significance of the birth of Jesus which is called Christmas. Nothing has changed but method. It is still desame celebration just like dat of the Angels, shepherds and d wise men. We av only upgraded it to be a formal celebration having different tins in it like beautifications and so on which is just branding.

U might want to contest dis but av U considered dat d way we conduct Church services 2day is totally different from how the apostles of that time conducted their services. The way we do baptisimal service today is different from d way it was conducted by d apostles den. But looking at d purpose it has not changed but d method had bin upgraded in our own time.

The way Christmas was celebrated thru out d Bible was more of spreading the news abt his birth which leads to salvation but today we have bin able 2 to upgrade it into a more elaborate celebration which still fulfil d spreading of the news abt Jesus birth, worshipping Christ and by surrendering one's life to Him.

We have a basis in the Bible. We shud be more concerned today abt how people will get saved thru thru d progragation of the Gospel in which Christmas celebration is just a part.

The basis of Jesus' coming to earth is not what is celebrated as Christmas. In fact, the only celebration about Jesus that Christians are asked to do is the remembrance of his death. Luke 22:19,20.....If you want to celebrate the significance of Jesus' coming to earth, that is the only celebration you should observe

You really should get hold of the Catholic encyclopedia.... The true origin of Christmas is not ascribed to the Bible.... In fact, they wrote that it's first occurrence was in Egypt. Christmas is not a Bible teaching

shine12:
Sir, you said Grace is a snare, that means Grace is a trap {a deceptive trap sort of]. Please I beseech you sir, cancel that definition of Grace from your mind, Grace is not a trap. Jesus did not condemn that adulterous woman and He also never tolerated her adultery, let me give you my expressive thought here Sir, that woman could have gone away without ever committing adultery again because she received grace and she could have also gone away still struggling with the sin even though she received a sort of grace. The difference is as far as She has a true and sincere desire to overcome that adultery, She will receive the grace one day (It could be instant or it could take time, God knows why some people change suddenly from a particular sin and why it takes some people to toil and toil with the same sin for over 5 yrs before changing), the other side of the coin is if she goes on sinning without a true desire to change, the grace will expire one day by maybe means of Her dying in the sin or her just totally backslidden and reaching a point of no return.
In the case of the Mosaic Law, She would have been automatically condemned without even needing to have any desire to change once she was caught, but with Grace, She will eventually be healed and overcome the sin if She has the desire. Afterall, scriptures says you will seek me and find me when you do with all your heart, therefore, Gods grace is not what you look for like a ten Naira note you lost in a dark room or on a field(you don’t look for it with sweat over a long time), but it’s what you look for like a 1 million naira cheque that dropped from your wallet, you will never leave that room until you find that cheque, so when I say Grace, I by no way mean you’re fine, your sin is covered, chill and keep on sinning, but rather it’s what we can receive if we diligently and truthfully seek for Grace in any area.
The Law could never make people righteous with God, no matter how much tithe or Sabbath you obey, Christ fulfilling the law is simply “Christ came to fulfil the demands of the law by attaining a righteousness that no man who lived before Him could attain". Now we can be perfect even as our Lord is perfect because we now have an example to follow, we have a high Priest (Hebrews 8:1) seated in heaven, We have a priest who learned obedience by the things he suffered (Hebrews 5:. The question every Christian should ask is what will God have me do now or what will Christ do in this situation and not simply acting coldly and dry.

Again, it should be of note that the birth of John the Baptist was also proclaimed and enjoyed like the one of Jesus.... Why don't you start celebrating John the Baptist? Of course there'll be happiness when a baby is born..... But, did the Christians continue observing the birth? No. We're they commanded to? No. Should we deviate from the model of the early Christians? Definitely not

ON TITHING: In Luke 11:42 THE LORD clearly validates Tithing even in the New Testament.

Some of the issues raised are true, especially worshipping statues.

Sanchez01:
I would be coming at you with the bolded in your claim. With the bolded, I'm sure you mean to say "the woman" is not EVE but MARY or perhaps, some other woman, simply because Eve was not referred to as "this woman" in Genesis 3:15? Perfect! Here are several reasons why the article "the" was used in Gen 3:15
NB: 'THE" in English language is called an article and it does not belong to any of the word classes or parts of speech in English language.

1. When the article "the" is used to refer to someone or something, it implies that thing or person is the only thing or person, hence, there is no reason to be specific
2. I'm sure you'd agree with me that Eve is the first woman ever created and she is the first and only woman ever to step into and live in Eden. Since there was just one woman at the time, it was quite convenient to refer to her as "the woman". Check out the passage below (Genesis 3:8-16);


Notice "the man" and "the woman" all over the passage. It was never necessary to be specific because they were the only humans at the time. Every man and woman, save Adam, are offspring of Eve, including Mary herself. Abraham, said to be the father of all nations is an offspring of Eve. So, to jump the genealogy of Christ, directly to Mary is laughable.

i hate useless and unnecessary argument, u now know it is the proto evangelium, it is a prophecy of God redeeming mankind by creating enmity between the serpent and the woman and her seed, eve already failed that test, she wasn't the one in enmity with the devil, infact she was the one who agreed with the devil and was deceived, herself and the first adam brought our downfall, God now speaks of a another man, he will be the second adam and this time a woman who is truely an enemy with the devil. one with who he finds favour one who is blessed an antitype for eve. this isn't eve, if it was God wouldn't have repeated the prophecy of a woman and her offspring again through isaiah on Is 7;14

Concerning Isaiah, yes, there is a prophecy about the birth of Christ and not about Mary. Please note that the focus is on the child, His attributes and what will become/befall him and not what will happen to the mother. It cannot be about Mary when the passage clearly gives detailed information on Christ. Isaiah 9:6-7

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given", kindly explain how Mary fits into the prophecy as she is not even mentioned directly. It could have been anyone, and indeed it was anyone and that was why it was Mary. The only thing we know about Mary in the Scripture is that she was a virgin, nothing more. If God had wanted to accord her 'honour and worship', He would have in plain words. By the way, thanks for the links on "Protoevangelium". It is indeed insightful.

your problem is that you try to scatter where God puts together, God announced a joint enmity the woman and her offspring against the devil, but you prefer if the woman wasn't in the equation isaiah 7 also talks about the woman as part of the prophecy. that puts her squarely in salvation's history, she isn't there by accident, it was the express will of God to put her right there, even Gal 4;4 is interesting it repeats God sent his son born of a woman [note the constant use of the word woman] it isnt eve it is Mary..


and yes God accorded her honor, it is an honor to give birth to your creator, God through the angel declared her blessed among women that is an honor, Elizabeth knew this hence “filled with the Holy Ghost, she cried out with a loud voice and said: ‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?’”. if that isn't honor then what is?

shine12:
Sir, you said Grace is a snare, that means Grace is a trap {a deceptive trap sort of]. Please I beseech you sir, cancel that definition of Grace from your mind, Grace is not a trap. Jesus did not condemn that adulterous woman and He also never tolerated her adultery, let me give you my expressive thought here Sir, that woman could have gone away without ever committing adultery again because she received grace and she could have also gone away still struggling with the sin even though she received a sort of grace. The difference is as far as She has a true and sincere desire to overcome that adultery, She will receive the grace one day (It could be instant or it could take time, God knows why some people change suddenly from a particular sin and why it takes some people to toil and toil with the same sin for over 5 yrs before changing), the other side of the coin is if she goes on sinning without a true desire to change, the grace will expire one day by maybe means of Her dying in the sin or her just totally backslidden and reaching a point of no return.
In the case of the Mosaic Law, She would have been automatically condemned without even needing to have any desire to change once she was caught, but with Grace, She will eventually be healed and overcome the sin if She has the desire. Afterall, scriptures says you will seek me and find me when you do with all your heart, therefore, Gods grace is not what you look for like a ten Naira note you lost in a dark room or on a field(you don’t look for it with sweat over a long time), but it’s what you look for like a 1 million naira cheque that dropped from your wallet, you will never leave that room until you find that cheque, so when I say Grace, I by no way mean you’re fine, your sin is covered, chill and keep on sinning, but rather it’s what we can receive if we diligently and truthfully seek for Grace in any area.
The Law could never make people righteous with God, no matter how much tithe or Sabbath you obey, Christ fulfilling the law is simply “Christ came to fulfil the demands of the law by attaining a righteousness that no man who lived before Him could attain". Now we can be perfect even as our Lord is perfect because we now have an example to follow, we have a high Priest (Hebrews 8:1) seated in heaven, We have a priest who learned obedience by the things he suffered (Hebrews 5:. The question every Christian should ask is what will God have me do now or what will Christ do in this situation and not simply acting coldly and dry.

Its just that you chose to understand me literally.
I meant that grace can be a snare when it is mishandled the way it is viewed today. But it was not meant to be so.
All other points you raised are valid.
Shalom.

very educative

Please let us love one another and do good

poik:
Oh, brother.
Jesus said, i have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Most of those things that you cited were shadows of things to come by virtue of the coming dispensation of grace, they do not mean they are abolished. But grace is a snare and many do not know it. Yes we don't stone adulterers now, and you are deceived into believing they will go free? Impossible. Even after you confess, the consequences will catch up with you one way or another. Its in the new testament the Bible says 'hand in hand, no sinner will go unpunished'. Don't forget that.
In law, you have to have two eyewitnesses to adultery, but in grace, simple list is enough to indict. Its even more deadly.
That's why grace makes way for what can help us live through the harshness of it: the Holy Ghost. That is the simple answer.

You are on point. Christ came and changed the rules of engagement even the warfare of Joshua and David in physical is now spiritual in our own time (Roman 8:1 and 2 cor 10:4.

And for the tithe, u pay to church not to pastor for payment of church workers (just like the levies) and church expansion.
Matt 23:23 Christ even rebuked them for laying emphasis only on tithe, wen they should also lay weightier emphasis on love, faith and mercy. meaning their tithe is not out of genuine love for the church or God but out of religious obligation to attain self righteousness.

So Jesus supports tithing with the right mind.

linusbnn:
Let me begin my defence of the Catholic Church and its devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary by the consideration of the similarities between the Fall of Man and the Redemption of Man.
In the Book of Genesis, we read how our first parents, Adam and Eve, fell into original sin. Satan, in the form of a serpent, first tempted Eve. When Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, she then offered it to Adam, who also partook. Adam, as Head of the Human Race, brought about the Fall of Mankind; it was, however, through the cooperation of Eve.
When Adam and Eve had fallen, Almighty God not only punished them and their progeny for this original sin, but He also promised to send a Redeemer.
“And the Lord God said to the serpent... I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel” (Genesis 3:13-15).
Who is the “woman” in the text of Holy Scripture of whom Almighty God set enmities against Satan? Who is “her seed”? What is meant by the words “and she shall crush thy head”?
In the Old Testament, Adam brought about the Fall of Mankind with the cooperation of Eve. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ, the God-Man, brought about our Redemption with the cooperation of the Virgin Mary. Eve, our first parent, was tempted by a fallen angel to disobey the command of God, and she subsequently led Adam into sin. In the New Testament, another angel, the Angel Gabriel, announced the will of God to the Virgin Mary and she, unlike Eve, humbly submitted.
In the Gospel of St. Luke, we read:
“The Angel Gabriel was sent to a Virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the House of David; and the Virgin’s name was Mary” (Luke 1:27).
How did the Angel Gabriel then address her? The Gospel of St. Luke continues:
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women!”
“Fear not, Mary, for thou has found grace with God. Behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His Name, Jesus... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy One which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Who can deny the dignity of the Virgin Mary — chosen to be the Mother of Jesus Christ? The Angel Gabriel, who was sent by God Himself, honored and praised her.
Furthermore, when the Virgin Mary visited her cousin, St. Elizabeth
“was filled with the Holy Ghost, and she cried out with a loud voice and said: ‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?’”
Once again, honor and praise is rendered to the Virgin Mary by St. Elizabeth, “who was filled with the Holy Ghost”
Then during this same visitation, the Virgin Mary responded to her cousin’s praise of her by the prayer so full of humility and of praise to God:
“My soul doth magnify the Lord... because He hath regarded the humility of His handmaid; for behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He that is mighty hath done great things to me.”
As Catholics, members of the one, true Church of Christ, we honor the Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ. We call her the Mother of God, because she indeed is the Mother of the one Divine Person, Jesus Christ, Who has both the nature of God and the nature of Man. By this title of “Mother of God,” we simply refer to the Virgin Mary as St. Elizabeth did when “filled with the Holy Ghost she cried out... Whence is this to me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?”
Catholics do not, as Protestants falsely believe, worship the Blessed Virgin Mary. We honor her who was so intimately connected with Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Yes, there is only one Mediator with the Father — Jesus Christ. Only the God-Man Jesus Christ could have redeemed mankind. Nevertheless, we pray to Mary that she may intercede for us with her Divine Son. How often we request the assistance of prayers from our fellow men — how much more powerful are the prayers and intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary! In the Old Testament, we read how Moses prayed with arms outstretched and interceded with God to procure the victory of the Israelites over their enemies in a crucial battle. As long as he prayed, they were victorious. When he ceased his prayers, the Israelites began to lose. Because of this, it was necessary for two men to hold up Moses’ arms in prayer until the battle was won. Also, we read in the Old Testament how Josue prayed to God to have the day prolonged in order to win another crucial battle. If Moses and Josue could have such intercession before God, how much more powerful are the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary!
The Gospel of St. John relates two significant accounts which relate to Mary — the wedding feast of Cana and the Crucifixion. Of the first account we read:
“There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the Mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and His disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the Mother of Jesus said to Him, ‘They have no wine.’ And Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, what is it to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.’ His Mother said to the waiters, ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye’” (John 2:1-5).
Jesus Christ then proceeded to work His first public miracle at His Mother’s request. Everything related in the Gospels is inspired by God, and there is a reason for it. Does not this narrative of the wedding feast manifest the intercessory power of Mary with Jesus Christ, her Divine Son?
In the second account, also take from the Gospel of St. John, we read:
“There stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother... When Jesus therefore had seen His Mother and the disciple standing whom He loved, He saith to His Mother: ‘Woman, behold thy son...’” (John 19:25-27).
Just as Eve cooperated with Adam in the Fall of mankind, the Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated with Jesus Christ in our redemption. She “stood by the Cross of Jesus.” What anguish, what sorrow did the Mother of Jesus experience at the foot of the Cross as she witnessed the sufferings and death of her Divine Son!
In both accounts, Jesus addressed Mary by the term woman. In Hebrew the word used by Jesus was a term which would be addressed to a queen or a woman of high rank. It was a term of great respect.
But why did Jesus Christ address His Mother by the term woman at these two significant moments in His life — at His first public miracle, and at His Crucifixion on the Cross?
Our Divine Lord wanted to clearly indicate that His Mother was the Woman spoken of in the Book of Genesis:
“I will put enmities between thee (Satan) and the Woman, between thy seed and her seed, and she shall crush thy head.”

In conclusion, let us, as members of Christ’s one, true Church, fulfil the prophecy made by the Blessed Virgin Mary during her visit to St. Elizabeth — “Behold henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

Thnk you.

(error 1) we pray to Mary that she may intercede for us with her Divine Son

we only pray to God in Jesus name. So u think Christ that accepted to die for us will be hardened to intercede for us, only to soften up cos Mary is now interceding. And remember Christ said no one comes to my father except tru me. so is Mary interceding against protocol or begging Christ to intercede.



(Great point) And Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, what is it to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.’ His Mother said to the waiters, ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye’” (John 2:1-5).

So do whatever Christ tells u to do. Christ gave us THE LORDS PRAYER as our model prayer, Mary was never incorporated in it. So obey the words of Mary and do wat Christ told u to do. He blatantly told her my hour has not yet come, meaning She can't move Jesus against divine programming.

Doctrine of churches is wat is killing our knowledge and illumination that God grants to christians who do individual study after the pastor must have done his preaching.

I personally try to follow Jesus model more than my Pastors model (though I hold them to high esteem).

Pls do same and ask God for revelation so u don't spend 100 yrs in wilderness when u should have spent less than that.

I luv u, but Jesus loves you more

AnonymustME:
Churches tell you to believe in God for your needd......but they believe in you for theirs

AnonymustME:
Churches tell you to believe in God for your needd......but they believe in you for theirs

AnonymustME:
Churches tell you to believe in God for your needd......but they believe in you for theirs

Lmao!!! So true.

DonaTee:
Simply put....Christ condemned it biko. But dat is where he taught forgiveness.
"Go n sin no more" D mob wanted to stone her to death buh christ remined dem dat they also hav committed others sins including adultery at 1 point in deir lives too.
Christ also condemned it wrn he was asked about divorce. ....in as much as God hates divorce. So it means we shld refrain from adultery wich may lead to divorce wich God hates.

And to all the philosophers I see here lol God brings d counsel of d wise to nothingness. Pray for ministrations b4 reading ur bible. The words r deep n some in parables n literal illustrations.
Cos I see a lot of confused posts

DonaTee:
Simply put....Christ condemned it biko. But dat is where he taught forgiveness.
"Go n sin no more" D mob wanted to stone her to death buh christ remined dem dat they also hav committed others sins including adultery at 1 point in deir lives too.
Christ also condemned it wrn he was asked about divorce. ....in as much as God hates divorce. So it means we shld refrain from adultery wich may lead to divorce wich God hates.

And to all the philosophers I see here lol God brings d counsel of d wise to nothingness. Pray for ministrations b4 reading ur bible. The words r deep n some in parables n literal illustrations.
Cos I see a lot of confused posts

DonaTee:
Simply put....Christ condemned it biko. But dat is where he taught forgiveness.
"Go n sin no more" D mob wanted to stone her to death buh christ remined dem dat they also hav committed others sins including adultery at 1 point in deir lives too.
Christ also condemned it wrn he was asked about divorce. ....in as much as God hates divorce. So it means we shld refrain from adultery wich may lead to divorce wich God hates.

And to all the philosophers I see here lol God brings d counsel of d wise to nothingness. Pray for ministrations b4 reading ur bible. The words r deep n some in parables n literal illustrations.
Cos I see a lot of confused posts

And how do you know your own is not one of the confused posts? Oh,İ know. because you wrote it!

spacohill3:
You tried but your Theological approach to all the topics you raised are WRONG AND MYOPIC! even the Philosophy is shallow for great minds. Anyway nice try but study more for better understanding of some things.
WHAT A CHILD DOESNT UNDERSTAND HE CALL 'NAMES'. Goodday

Why don't you explain the topic better, at least explain in detail where he missed it. You tell us he got it wrong.
You explain what is right.

snailspeed:
If you want to give, by all means do. But then, giving is mainly to the needy not to glorified men for use in building sctrutures and empires. That in itself is wrong. The giving that was mentioned in the acts of the apostles had nothing to do with giving to men of God. It also had nothing to do with giving so that God will give you back and make you rich. Collections were made so that those who didnt have enough could be helped. That was why deacons were appointed. The disciples never collected the offerings for themselves and, mind you, there were no denominations then. Paul and some others also made collections so they could help missionaries in the field. No one acquired great wealth for themselves. The whole concept of giving we see today is clearly not Christian. That is why they clearly put more emphasis in using money to build structures and material things than helping people. But they lie to the congregation that they are pushing the gospel. Look around you, they are not helping anyone but themselves

İ remember reading somewhere in the epistles where paul said he worked with his hands(he was a tent maker) so that he was not a burden to the members. But he also said they should give. Not for his sake but so that it will be to their own account.
And you are right. The excesses and lust for material wealth by our so-called MOGs is ungodly. There is no difference between them and unbelievers and that in itself is dangerous.
The believer in antioch were first called 'christians'. İ doubt if anybody can make that distinction now.

damocool:
Abraham commenced it Jacob continued it Malachi confirmed it JESUS spoke abt it.. No one can stop it..

You must be feeling like apostle suleiman now with your rhyming words

winningwinner:
Now I know who you are and where you belong. It will pay you not to delve into matters that are greater than you.

Abegi! All these empty and vain threats! Why are you hesistant to explain what you do with the offerings you receive MOG?
With your careful and detailed explanations,we might be able to get a clearer picture of why it is necessary to tithe.

redwriter:
[color=#006600][/color]

And how do you know your own is not one of the confused posts? Oh,İ know. because you wrote it!

Do u av to qoute me 3x to make ur point?
I stated my points, wat is ur own point?
pls learn to b independent. Go to ur bible n read it. It is clearly written there. Pple misquote d bible n confuse those dat r lazy to study the word.

Dont qoute me again. U r late for d party n besides im too busy. U r entitled to ur views

DonaTee:
Do u av to qoute me 3x to make ur point?
I stated my points, wat is ur own point?
pls learn to b independent. Go to ur bible n read it. It is clearly written there. Pple misquote d bible n confuse those dat r lazy to study the word.

Dont qoute me again. U r late for d party n besides im too busy. U r entitled to ur views

Oh,I'm sorry. I didn't know you were the bouncer for this party. Don't be angry. mtchew.

sinistermind:
I prefer not to say anything on this topic. We say these things, but there are people that have one or two thing to say about everything you said to assert their beliefs in what you listed. Be careful about condemning religious beliefs. Whether you like it or not, the Bible was compiled by men like ourselves and not by a supernatural force or being.

Abeg explain with 2Tim 3:16

linusbnn:
If we can intercede for one another,why can't we beg for the intercession of Mother of Jesus (MARY)who showed her love for mankind at the wedding feast at CANA? Try and read John 2:1-5.

Dat na praying to the dead na.
See 1Tim. 2:5