Kenistry:

the New is clear on tithing. It has bn abolished due to the change in the order of priesthood. Read Hebrews 7

OK....reading.....

linusbnn:



Ok. Thank you. The bible does not change,it is the same ages past and ages to come. The bible said mary will conceive and bear a son and his name will be Jesus Christ.

Let me break your heart a bit. Prophet Isaiah, Micah, and John the Baptist all foretold the coming of Christ. Before Mary was conceived of the Holy Ghost, she was confused, lost and greatly afraid as she had no idea what was to happen?

“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favor[a] with God. 31 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Jesus. 32 He will be a great man and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever, and his kingdom will never end.” 34 Mary asked the angel, “How can this be? I’m a virgin.[/b]”

Joseph, on the other hand was ashamed and disappointed in Mary after it was discovered that she was pregnant and was planning on putting her away (dumping her) when an angel persuaded him to stay with her.

…19 And Joseph her husband, [b]being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly. 20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."…

This negates your earlier assertion in which you claimed Mary had long been prepared for the legendary role she was to play. Worshipping or honouring Mary while believing she will intercede is not strong put her in the immortal role she is enjoying in some Christian churches.

thesicilian:


A new angle to the argument I must say. But an argument can also be made that Jesus Christ here was talking to the Pharisees (Old Testament), and not his disciples(we Christians).
I think this requires looking into.

1. Jesus never said in that scripture Christians should pay tithe. He was talking to Jewish people in the old testament and simply acknowledged that paying tithe for them wasnt wrong but they should do the more important things in the law

2. That statement was made in the old testament, not in the new. The new testament started after Jesus rose from the dead. I dont know why those who quote that scripture always miss that simple fact

BADNEAT:
so from what u read, was it Abram that gave the priest/king tithes or the priest gave

Abram gave tithes to the priest. But the priests are also explicitly instructed to give tithes (heave offering I think)

Yu ve nt raised any valid point ever since.

linusbnn:



You are a leader I knw and maybe that is why you see the word HONOUR as a mighty word. Some pple honour Esther becos they see her as a woman of virtue and that is why they will alwz talk of her story.

thesicilian:
On the issue of tithes, a lot of people might disagree with you as you have already anticipated.
First tithing did not begin with Jacob, it began with Abraham, when he gave tithes to Melchizedek the priest of the Most High. (Genesis 14:20)
And we're somewhat bound to follow the acts of our great patriarch if we are to enjoy his blessings as ''seeds of Abram''

But the new testament views on tithing are issues of continuing research to me, one would think that for such an important issue as tithing (as our pastors make it out to be), the New Testament Bible would be pretty clear on its stand but this is not the case

Read Hebrews 7:8-10

Sanchez01:

True, and that is because a lot of people will not just change their minds on what they have been taught from childhood till date. Again to hammer on it, why didn't Christ demonstrate it when He was able to pay tax to Caesar's government? He taught us to pray, to forgive, to give, to intercede for others and even to give towards the work of God, but never made a single teaching on tithing? As big as the New Testament is, there is not a single teaching on tithing. What does this tell us? Unfortunately, some pastors realize this but they will never preach it because it;s like preaching their very own death.

Even the concept of paying tithe in the Old Testament made it known that the Levites, the tribe from Levi are to eat and feast from the people's tithes because God commanded them not to have a land like in the inheritance of Israel every other tribe had. They had no lands, they did not farm and they did not rear cattles. So if the Levites had access to the tithes based on God's instruction, why then did Christ not preach about it in the new phase? Simple, because there are no Levites in our midst again. The Pastor who has a full time job has turned himself to a Levite despite his many landed properties and cars. He cannot preach the truth in this regard because that is his primary source of income.

Read Hebrews 7:8-10

linusbnn:


Read to the end of that james verse and stop dragging me back

You want me to paste the whole chapter for you? It doesnt change anything in my post

thesicilian:

Hahahahaha... which war?

Point #4: Genesis 14:20: Abram’s Tithe to Melchizedek Reflected the Law of the Land. (Chapters 2, 3)

The false teaching is that Abraham freely gave tithes because it was God’s will.

Scores of reputable secular history books document the existence of spoils of war tithing from Babylon to Egypt before Abraham’s time. For the following reasons, Abram’s pre-circumcision tithe in Genesis 14:20 cannot be used as an example for Christians to tithe (17:5).

(1) The Bible does not say that Abram “freely” gave this tithe.

(2) Abram’s gift was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land gathered by God’s holy people under God’s holy Old Covenant.

(3) Abram’s tithe was clearly only from pagan spoils of war and was required in many nations as the law of the land.

(4) In Numbers 31:21-31, God only required 1% of spoils of war as an ordinance.

(5) Abram’s tithe to the priest-king Melchizedek was a one-time recorded event.

(6) Abram’s tithe was not from his previously owned personal property.

(7) Abram kept nothing for himself; he gave everything back.

( Abram’s tithe is not quoted anywhere in the Bible to endorse tithing from Israel or from the church.

(9) Genesis 14, verse 21, is the key text.

Like I earlier mentioned, tithing started with Jacob.

snailspeed:


1. Jesus never said in that scripture Christians should pay tithe. He was talking to Jewish people in the old testament and simply acknowledged that paying tithe for them wasnt wrong but they should do the more important things in the law

2. That statement was made in the old testament, not in the new. The new testament started after Jesus rose from the dead. I dont know why those who quote that scripture always miss that simple fact

Yeah, I agree.
I think people just naturally divide the Bible into old & new testaments based on what the publishers have done: Genesis to Malachi, and Matthew to Revelation.
Anyone who has actually taken time to read and meditate on this issue will see that New testament actually begins from the teachings of Jesus to His disciples and afterwards.

Weldone @op. I personally don't think church wedding is a sin.Heb 13:4.I did traditional so that bride price be paid.We went to registry to fulfill the law of the land and church for God's blessing.

The issue of tithe in new testament its really not clear.Our Lord Jesus taught on a lot of issues ranging from forgiveness to love,giving, sharing,Praying,Fasting and a host of others BUT really he didn't teach on tithe.The apostles peter,Paul,James, John etc taught on so many Christian living doctrines BUT did not mention tithe not even paul that wrote almost half of d NT.
My conclusion is this I CANNOT OUTGIVE GOD.

Christmas.Paul wrote if anyone esteem a particular day its unto God and if another fellow feels otherwise its unto the Lord in all let Christ be glorified.

jiggalo:
Read Hebrews 7:8-10

Read it, don't get your point.

jiggalo:

Read Hebrews 7:8-10

Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; but in that case [concerning Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he [a]lives on [perpetually]. 9 A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes, paid tithes through Abraham [the father of all Israel and of all who believe], 10 for Levi was still in the loins (unborn) of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him (Abraham).

NB: THIS IS NOT A TEACHING ON TITHE BUT A RECAP OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ACCOUNT and a sharp contrast between the Levitical Priesthood and King Melchizedek, and the passage pretty much talks about who receives tithe.

BARNE'S COMMENTARY

But there - In contrast with "here" in the same verse. The reference here is to the account of Melchizedek, "Here," in the Levitical economy, men received tithes who are mortal; "there," in the account of Melchizedek, the case is different.

He receiveth them - Melchizedek - for so the connection evidently demands.

Of whom it is witnessed - Of whom the record is. There is not in Genesis, indeed, any direct record that he lives, but there is the absence of a record that he died, and this seems to have been regarded as in fact a record of permanency in the office; or as having an office which did not pass over to successors by the death of the then incumbent.

Cc
Ammyluv2002
thesicilian

Babayoutoomuch:
Weldone @op. I personally don't think church wedding is a sin.Heb 13:4.I did traditional so that bride price be paid.We went to registry to fulfill the law of the land and church for God's blessing.

The issue of tithe in new testament its really not clear.Our Lord Jesus taught on a lot of issues ranging from forgiveness to love,giving, sharing,Praying,Fasting and a host of others BUT really he didn't teach on tithe.The apostles peter,Paul,James, John etc taught on so many Christian living doctrines BUT did not mention tithe not even paul that wrote almost half of d NT.
My conclusion is this I CANNOT OUTGIVE GOD.

Christmas.Paul wrote if anyone esteem a particular day its unto God and if another fellow feels otherwise its unto the Lord in all let Christ be glorified.

If you want to give, by all means do. But then, giving is mainly to the needy not to glorified men for use in building sctrutures and empires. That in itself is wrong. The giving that was mentioned in the acts of the apostles had nothing to do with giving to men of God. It also had nothing to do with giving so that God will give you back and make you rich. Collections were made so that those who didnt have enough could be helped. That was why deacons were appointed. The disciples never collected the offerings for themselves and, mind you, there were no denominations then. Paul and some others also made collections so they could help missionaries in the field. No one acquired great wealth for themselves. The whole concept of giving we see today is clearly not Christian. That is why they clearly put more emphasis in using money to build structures and material things than helping people. But they lie to the congregation that they are pushing the gospel. Look around you, they are not helping anyone but themselves

@Op, God bless you real gud for dis eye opening article. On dis issue of "tithing" I totally agree wit d bible passages u've quoted. We no longer have Levites in our midst so wats d tithing for? I believe as Christians we should channel our blessings from God towards offering and assisting d needy ones in our midst and not enriching our so call "men of God" who have full time Govt/private jobs dey do.We can't claim to love God who we haven't seen yet dnt help the less privileged ones around us.


Also reading tru comments some1 mentioned God punishing those who don't tithe, sumtin about collecting d money one way or d other. The general blessings of d lord fall on both the gud and bad just as rain fall on both d roof of d gud and evil.

The richest man in Africa is a Muslim and I believe dnt pay tithe ryt? #Food for tot#

thesicilian:

Yeah, I agree.
I think people just naturally divide the Bible into old & new testaments based on what the publishers have done: Genesis to Malachi, and Matthew to Revelation.
Anyone who has actually taken time to read and meditate on this issue will see that New testament actually begins from the teachings of Jesus to His disciples and afterwards.

The new testament begins after the ressurection. All of Jesus ministry until His death was in the old testament. But in His teachings, he clearly taught many things that should come in the new but tithe was never one of those

Babayoutoomuch:
Weldone @op. I personally don't think church wedding is a sin.Heb 13:4.I did traditional so that bride price be paid.We went to registry to fulfill the law of the land and church for God's blessing.

The issue of tithe in new testament its really not clear.Our Lord Jesus taught on a lot of issues ranging from forgiveness to love,giving, sharing,Praying,Fasting and a host of others BUT really he didn't teach on tithe.The apostles peter,Paul,James, John etc taught on so many Christian living doctrines BUT did not mention tithe not even paul that wrote almost half of d NT.
My conclusion is this I CANNOT OUTGIVE GOD.

Christmas.Paul wrote if anyone esteem a particular day its unto God and if another fellow feels otherwise its unto the Lord in all let Christ be glorified.

It is not, just that it is a very wrong practice. The Church is sacred and should not be used for merry making. It explains why I said it is a sin. It is really irrelevant to marriage. On tithe, you might find this interesting;

jiggalo:

Read Hebrews 7:8-10

Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; but in that case [concerning Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he [a]lives on [perpetually]. 9 A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes, paid tithes through Abraham [the father of all Israel and of all who believe], 10 for Levi was still in the loins (unborn) of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him (Abraham).

NB: THIS IS NOT A TEACHING ON TITHE BUT A RECAP OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ACCOUNT and a sharp contrast between the Levitical Priesthood and King Melchizedek

BARNE'S COMMENTARY

But there - In contrast with "here" in the same verse. The reference here is to the account of Melchizedek, "Here," in the Levitical economy, men received tithes who are mortal; "there," in the account of Melchizedek, the case is different.

He receiveth them - Melchizedek - for so the connection evidently demands.

Of whom it is witnessed - Of whom the record is. There is not in Genesis, indeed, any direct record that he lives, but there is the absence of a record that he died, and this seems to have been regarded as in fact a record of permanency in the office; or as having an office which did not pass over to successors by the death of the then incumbent.

Sanchez01:




NB: THIS IS NOT A TEACHING ON TITHE BUT A RECAP OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ACCOUNT and a sharp contrast between the Levitical Priesthood and King Melchizedek, and the passage pretty much talks about who receives tithe.

BARNE'S COMMENTARY


Cc
Ammyluv2002
thesicilian

OK.
The commentary is still a. bit confusing.
1. Is it saying that because the office of Melchizedek remains forever, the issue of tithing to him is to continue?
2. If this is so, then who receives the tithe in this present day, since the office of the priest has been abolished as it were?

winner01:
If another date was chosen. Skeptics will still find a god to attribute it to. We have 365 days and there about 5000+ gods.
Personally, i see nothing wrong in celebrating Jesus anyday. He owns all days.

You're too much my brother. Just what I wanted to say!
God owns all days. Forget about Mars, it's just a planet.
Who do people celebrate on 25th of December?
Mars?!
We celebrate the birth of the son of God. So. Simple!

Sanchez01:

An old practice. Read it carefully. It was mandated because Levites needed to be fed and anyone who cut corners by failing to bring his tithe is a robber who had robbed God. Note, there was the mention of a storehouse. This is so because whatever was brought, mostly food back then, was stored in the storehouse so that Levites would not lack. Malachi 3:8 is the only book in the Old Testament that explicitly talked about bringing tithes and its effect. We don't bring food now, do we? Plus, there's no storehouse anymore. Christ even from the Royal tribe of Judah did not pay, neither did He preach about this. The twelve tribe had scattered in the New Testament because Christ was around. The priests and kings held the people together in the Old, they all disappeared in the New, along with this very practice.

but, do u know that the old testiment is the shadow of the new? & do you know that christ also said that He has not come to abolish the words of the prophets? if this is correct, which means that,the livite are the pastors & you dont expect us in the 21ist century to still maintain the same store house as of old. the tite is mainly 4 the upkeep of the pastors & also 4 maintaining the house of God just as it was in the days of old.if you say that people abuse it,then we are in same page,but to say that is not in the new testament i disagree wit you. Except you can prove to me that jesus is not in the old testament. Pls lets educate each order.

Sanchez01:

The same passages you gave as references to tithe is the same someone gave me just almost two weeks ago. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Was Christ teaching about tithe? No, He was highlighting the hypocritical nature of the Pharisees and Scribes who carry out the Mosaic Law thinking they are better than others when in reality they are not. Please re-read the passage to understand what Christ meant.

but never condemned it also, he's only telling them not to do some and leave the rest undone..

thesicilian:

OK.
The commentary is still a. bit confusing.
1. Is it saying that because the office of Melchizedek remains forever, the issue of tithing to him is to continue?
2. If this is so, then who receives the tithe in this present day, since the office of the priest has been abolished as it were?

No, to your number one question, hence, there is no number two. Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek, and Levi, the one to whom all tithes went to is from Jacob, while Jacob is from Isaac and Isaac is from Abraham.

Two things, according to the commentary, Melchizedek still lives, probably according to myths since there is no record of his death. The uncertainty of his death, perhaps disappearance is the only reason his seat had been left vacant. From the passage itself, Melchizedek is immortalized as there is no record or citation of his death anywhere.

but in that case [concerning Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he [a]lives on [perpetually]. 9 A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes, paid tithes through Abraham [the father of all Israel and of all who believe], 10 for Levi was still in the loins (unborn) of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him (Abraham).

Therefore, since Abraham, the great grandfather of Levi, paid tithe to Melchizedek, then it would be right to imply that Levi, the one whom all tithes go to also paid tithe to Melchizedek. (This is a breakdown of the Bible passage itself)

Please carefully study the bolded parts.

ojoyentalk:
Tithing started with Abraham Jacob continued it Jesus commended it

Abraham commenced it Jacob continued it Malachi confirmed it JESUS spoke abt it.. No one can stop it..

phanshark:
but, do u know that the old testiment is the shadow of the new? & do you know that christ also said that He has not come to abolish the words of the prophets? if this is correct, which means that,the livite are the pastors & you dont expect us in the 21ist century to still maintain the same store house as of old. the tite is mainly 4 the upkeep of the pastors & also 4 maintaining the house of God just as it was in the days of old.if you say that people abuse it,then we are in same page,but to say that is not in the new testament i disagree wit you. Except you can prove to me that jesus is not in the old testament. Pls lets educate each order.

Yes, the Old Testament is a reflection of the new. Christ may have said He didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it because He was dealing with Pharisees who upheld the Mosaic Law to the end. They may not have listened to Him if He said He had come to change them, knowing fully well then that He was not readily accepted among them. You cannot call Pastors Levites because most of them work in top establishments. These people can eat 10 square meals if they want to because the money is there. More so, you cannot call a pastor a Levite because the operation of the Old Testament has passed. Levites in the Bible were commanded to take the tithes because God instructed them not to share from the inheritance of Israel. We're way past the era of Law which mandated to bring tithe to the storehouse (where meats and breads are stored). If the tithe is for the upkeep as you claimed, who then spends the church offering? Why must the pastor devise and map out three types of offering in just one single service sunday; Love offering, Peace offering, Maintenance offering and sometimes, even Welfare offering. These offerings are enough to take care of the church but the pastor will not admit it because he is greedy. He wants to wear the best of things while members are impoverished.

Jesus was in the Old Testament, right from the time of creation but He was not operating. God operated directly in the Old Testament while Jesus and the Holy Spirit remained in the background. Then later, Jesus became active in the New while God allowed Jesus to lead a new set of people. The Holy Spirit, was around all the while but was in the background until Jesus left. They all had their era.

God dealt with clueless, wicked Israel and gave them several Laws to make them conform but it didn't work as they feared the punishments of their sins more than God. Jesus came into the picture to show us a more pardonable way; a way free from Laws and punishments and left us with the Holy Spirit who became the Light and candle of man.

Sanchez01:

No, to your number one question, hence, there is no number two. Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek, and Levi, the one to whom all tithes went to is from Jacob, while Jacob is from Isaac and Isaac is from Abraham.

Two things, according to the commentary, Melchizedek still lives, probably according to myths since there is no record of his death. The uncertainty of his death, perhaps disappearance is the only reason his seat had been left vacant. From the passage itself, Melchizedek is immortalized as there is no record or citation of his death anywhere.


Therefore, since Abraham, the great grandfather of Levi, paid tithe to Melchizedek, then it would be right to imply that Levi, the one whom all tithes go to also paid tithe to Melchizedek. (This is a breakdown of the Bible passage itself)

Please carefully study the bolded parts.

That's clear enough, thanks.
Now looking closely at this man Melchizedek: the Bible describes him as
- King of Salem...King of righteousness... King of Peace
- Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(Heb 7:1-3)

Only one person can answer to that description - God Almighty Himself.
Jesus Christ, the son of God, is referred to as ... Prince of Peace...Prince of Salem

Melchizedek must have been an appearance of the Almighty to Abraham, and not an actual earthly king

effty:
Make a deep analysis of the quoted scriptures nd nt a superficial one. She is blessed among all women for bin d vessel through which the Saviour came to the world. Mind yu, before the pregnancy she was nt regarded as such. Deborah was also a blessed woman.

P.S: Stop all those ending ur postulations with "wat if it was ur mother?" I wonder if that is the only reasonable argument Catholic faithfuls ve got. Kip ur emotions aside nd learn

we was called such by d angel before d pregnacy.... Do u even read ur bible or do u just follow ur pastor?

rev2214:

Yes, she is mother of JESUS
Yes God chose her and she is blessed among women.
But God did all of that to set man free from looking up to other human in worship.
That is why the blood of JESUS was shed for sins.
And we are free to approach God directly.
And she can't intercede for me because she is not a priest.
Only priest intercede for people.

all in christ are priest, the bible sayy, u are a royal priesthood. Anyy christian can interceed.....

snailspeed:


God has no mother. Thats totally heretical. Once you talk about the mother of God, you have become an idol worshipper who worships semiramis who is also called the queen of heaven. See what God says about those who worship the queen of heaven

Jeremiah 7:16-19King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

God the son had a mother gal 4:4 God sent his son born of a woman

In other words,all Catholics will go to hell?

snailspeed:


So the priest is the righteous?

And no where were you asked to run to anyone. You are asked to come boldly to God not to run to some priest or pastor. Running to a priest or pastor is a practice that was created to enslave men.

james 5 sayys, is anyone sick among u, call d elder (priest), d practice is from d bible.

Sanchez01:

The same passages you gave as references to tithe is the same someone gave me just almost two weeks ago. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Was Christ teaching about tithe? No, He was highlighting the hypocritical nature of the Pharisees and Scribes who carry out the Mosaic Law thinking they are better than others when in reality they are not. Please re-read the passage to understand what Christ meant.

Tithe is not relevant. Hebrew 7:11 clearly answers the question about tithing. It is question that must be answered by our pastors

Hebrew 7:1-12 clearly shows that there is no need for tithing now. Verse 11 asks a very important question. Read and assimilate it!