₦airaland Forum

@ Muafrika2
should I still wait for your reply on my last post to you?

dolphinheart:
@ Muafrika2
should I still wait for your reply on my last post to you?

Did that already

Muafrika2:
He's God's Son. That means all things that God is, He is. The relation between God and His only Son is a father - Son relationship. So by talking to Christ, am talking to His father, in fact, I cannot talk to His father without Him. That is why he refered to Himself as "the way". There is no other way to the father.

If it's true that Christ is not that important to JWS, then they cannot get to the father. You can't reject the Son and have the father.

paulGrundy:
I love the way you did not engage in a foolish argument about Trinity with blind dolphinheart.

Let me ask you a question, when someone uses lies and deciet to justify an argument, would you wholly believe all the person says? [size=15pt]If truly the watchtowers anti-trinity stance conforms to the bible, why then do they use lies to justify their position? Why not let the bible speak for itself?[/size] Just because one quotes the scripture doesn't mean he teaches the truth.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/trinity.php

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/misquotes-deception-lies.php

Fraudstars have a unique ability to use falsehoods to manipulate others so that it would enable them swindle guys of their hard earned money. Please don't let blind, deaf and dumb people decieve you.

Mtcheeeew.

sir, I was not arguing with anyone, I just asked some simple questions. You call me blind , yet you can't answer the questions I asked.
abuse and derogatory speech is a tactic used by politicians when they want to twist issues, you try to paint me black, but you wunt adress the issue under discussion. I wunt go there with you.

if you feel you know something about Jesus and almighty God, feel free to share your understanding! you have not told Muafrika2 your view on jesus Christ and the Majesty on high!, neither will he know your views when the only thing you try to do is degrade others.

Muafrika2:
Did that already

I've replied you on the post above, I'm talking about my reply to the above.

You can check my last post to you on the issue we are discussing

dolphinheart:
you are right to say he is Gods son. but to say "all things that god is, he is" is a wrong analogy.
angels too are gods sons, likewise jesus brothers who will be with him in heaven, are those too everything that God is?


So you agree that Jesus and god(father) are two different persons, and you can only approach one through the other.

My understanding is not based on any religious groups position. It is what I see in scripture. I won't take doctrinal issues for a truth If it's not what I am seeing in scripture.

If Christ is not in any a separate entity, why would he even need to come. God had interacted with Israel before. He could have just gotten another Moses.

If they were not different, why would Jesus have a problem with rejection by the religious society of His day. They knew God, so why would he introduce Himself as someone they had to ask things in His name?

it's not true bro, you can ask then when you see them. They follow jesus words word found found in John 17:3. hope its ok if I ask that you read that verse and tell me what you think about it?

Am glad to hear that.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I think Christ here is demonstrating that He was,
1. Sent

2. By God (to represent Him, )

3. That the men had to believe in Him as one sent by God, and that belief was key in their salvation.

So, I believe they are equal in many ways. But there is only one King that Sits above all principalities, including Christ's. Jesus Christs rule is from by God.

The two have many times different and sometimes quite specific roles.

The role of Christ is to bring us to connect us to God. And to destroy the principalities of the earth.

^^^^

Ah just prepare yourself this thread will enter 100 pages today on this matter. And don't get angry when he misinterprets your comments and attacks the misrepresentation and keeping chanting the same points to you as if he is in a trance.

*unfollows thread.

Muafrika2:
My understanding is not based on any religious groups position. It is what I see in scripture. I won't take doctrinal issues for a truth If it's not what I am seeing in scripture.

good bro, as you can see, I'm not ready to discuss doctrinal positions, I just want to discuss about what I read in the scriptures.

If Christ is not in any a separate entity, why would he even need to come. God had interacted with Israel before. He could have just gotten another Moses.

If they were not different, why would Jesus have a problem with rejection by the religious society of His day. They knew God, so why would he introduce Himself as someone they had to ask things in His name?

Ill take this to mean that we both agree( using the scriptures as guide) that Jesus is a seperate person from the almighty God . that Jesus is not almighty God.

Am glad to hear that.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I think Christ here is demonstrating that He was,
1. Sent

2. By God (to represent Him, )

3. That the men had to believe in Him as one sent by God, and that belief was key in their salvation.

I totally agree with the above. but let me add small. Jesus told us about eternal life, that we must have knowledge of him( a first person), and we must have knowledge of the only true god(a second person). without knowledge about those two persons, we can't gain eternal life.

Jesus called the father, the "only true god", and he also called the father "my god".
personally to me, those two statements shows that their is no equality between God and Jesus.

So, I believe they are equal in many ways. But there is only one King that Sits above all principalities, including Christ's. Jesus Christs rule is from by God.

Well, this depends on your definition of equality. my own definition of equality means that one has no authority, power, supremacy, position over the other. If these definition is considered to be true, the jesus and "the only true god are not equal".

The two have many times different and sometimes quite specific roles.

The role of Christ is to bring us to connect us to God. And to destroy the principalities of the earth.

you are right, but i hope you can see that the roles and power to play it by one(jesus) is determined, commanded and given by another( the only true god)

johnw74:
@bold, Very rarely does a person change from the truth to a lie, you obviously haven't read from jwfacts, or you have read and stay with jw anyway, to suggest that Paul Grundy of jwfacts might change from his stance on jw.

Read here: www.jwfacts.com to find out a little about what your org. doesn't tell you.

Read here: https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity to learn more truth.

people are changing from truth to lie. Apostle paul and jesus foretold of rise of apostates who will twist teachings of the Lord in first century. King Saul changed from truth to lie. What you called truth in jwfacts and carm.org are not necessary the truth. you think info in the websites are truth. billions do not think so. it is dangerous to attack an individual or an institution based on what you perceive as truth. that crowd follow a trend does not make it right. 8 souls survive flood of noah. majority are not always right.

on paul grundy websites, before him, some individuals had launched attacks on jw based on definition of truth. like paul grundy, they jw apostastes, majority of them are now history. i believe truth will stand test of time. no attack can stop from being know.

i believe if jw are not backed by God, with what they have passed thru in d past worlwide,they could have been history by now. i do not know why, the attacks invigorate them to preach salvation by Lord Jesus Christ more and more.

dolphinheart:
good bro, as you can see, I'm not ready to discuss doctrinal positions, I just want to discuss about what I read in the scriptures.


Ill take this to mean that we both agree ( using the scriptures as guide) that Jesus is a seperate person from the almighty God . that Jesus is not almighty God.

Not really.

At times the attributes of God are not defined by human Impossibilities. Just because they can be separated does not negate their oneness;

The disciples once asked Jesus to show them God. He told them they had seen Him by seeing Him.

I totally agree with the above. but let me add small. Jesus told us about eternal life, that we must have knowledge of him( a first person), and we must have knowledge of the only true god(a second person). without knowledge about those two persons, we can't gain eternal life.

Jesus called the father, the "only true god", and he also called the father "my god".
personally to me, those two statements shows that their is no equality between God and Jesus.

Well, this depends on your definition of equality.

My own definition of equality means that one has no authority, power, supremacy, position over the other. If these definition is considered to be true, the jesus and "the only true god are not equal".

My understanding on their inequality is only in terms of order. That God is above his Son in authority. But as for Godliness, they are one Godliness.

you are right, but i hope you can see that the roles and power to play it by one(jesus) is determined, commanded and given by another( the only true god)

The son has His honour too. In fact, the honour given to Him is interpreted as God's, so he cannot be excluded in worship toward God. His exclusion is rejection of God;

John 5:23 |
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.(I've checked the JWS bible and it says the same.)

One time, the Pharisees almost stoned Jesus for calling Himself the Son of God, for it meant He was equating Himself with God. This is what He answered; as quoted above in John 5.

Being an entity in His own right does not contradict the fact that He is one with God. One spirit. Care should be taken not to exclude Him in faith. He is the groom of the church;

Revelation 19:9 |
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb...

He is the Lamb, in this verse.

Muafrika2:
Not really.

At times the attributes of God are not defined by human Impossibilities. Just because they can be separated does not negate their oneness;

you are right, Jesus said, he and the father are one. but he also said said gods loyal servants will be one with him and the father. Therefore , in my own understanding, to be one does not mean they are the same or are equal.

The disciples once asked Jesus to show them God. He told them they had seen Him by seeing Him.

you are right bro, the disciples ones asked jesus to show them the father and Jesus responded. but one thing is clear, Jesus is not the father.
The disciples know and acknowledge that Jesus is the son of the living God, so what did Jesus mean by the statement.

Heb 1:3 and col 1:15 guides us . The son is the exact representation of the father, remember jesus said everything he is teaching is from the father. so when you listen to jesus, you are listening to the father.

My understanding on their inequality is only in terms of order. That God is above his Son in authority. But as for Godliness, they are one Godliness.

depends on what you mean by Godliness, is it the same Godliness those who will go to heaven will partake in?
cus even if they partake in it, it does not make then equal to God.
If "godliness" means "divine nature" , then I agree with you that Jesus has same divine nature as God.

The son has His honour too. In fact, the honour given to Him is interpreted as God's, so he cannot be excluded in worship toward God. His exclusion is rejection of God;

John 5:23 |
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.(I've checked the JWS bible and it says the same.)

yep you are right, if you want to worship the Father, you have to do what the one he sent tells you to do.

One time, the Pharisees almost stoned Jesus for calling Himself the Son of God, for it meant He was equating Himself with God. This is what He answered; as quoted above in John 5.

Being an entity in His own right does not contradict the fact that He is one with God. One spirit. Care should be taken not to exclude Him in faith. He is the groom of the church;

Revelation 19:9 |
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb...

He is the Lamb, in this verse.

Jesus did not say he is God Almighty, the Pharisees got it wrong, and Jesus even quotes the scriptures for them. They do not understand that Jesus was once a spirit residing in heaven with God, they taught jesus was human who never had divine nature.

Jesus is the Lamb, which points to the fact that Jesus is not the almighty God.

joyandfaith:
people are changing from truth to lie. Apostle paul and jesus foretold of rise of apostates who will twist teachings of the Lord in first century. King Saul changed from truth to lie. What you called truth in jwfacts and carm.org are not necessary the truth. you think info in the websites are truth. billions do not think so. it is dangerous to attack an individual or an institution based on what you perceive as truth. that crowd follow a trend does not make it right. 8 souls survive flood of noah. majority are not always right.

on paul grundy websites, before him, some individuals had launched attacks on jw based on definition of truth. like paul grundy, they jw apostastes, majority of them are now history. i believe truth will stand test of time. no attack can stop from being know.

i believe if jw are not backed by God, with what they have passed thru in d past worlwide,they could have been history by now. i do not know why, the attacks invigorate them to preach salvation by Lord Jesus Christ more and more.

It must be a blessing to be called a jw apostate, that would mean they now have a chance to come into the Church.

dolphinheart:
thanks for the encouragement. To answer your question, one needs to go back and read on statements made then, not just the cut and paste method. But I wunt be doing that, what I'm learning presently is what I believe to be the truth, unless you can bring up a contrary explanation to my present beliefs, I don't see a need to go back to old beliefs that I do not believe in , talk less of if they are inspired or not.

Yeah you don't need to go back to old believe of people like Russell & Rutherford but can go back to the more older believe of The Apostles.

What if the Apostles have behaved like Russell and Rutherford, which believe will you have hold?

You're learning presently, Yes! But the question is, do you learn on a neutral ground or your learning is still from JW materials?

I do not know in detail how jehovah works, I do not know in detail what Russell said or did, I do not know Russell at all except what is written about him, which can be true or false depending on the intentions and knowledge of the writer.

Imaging, it's now you're claiming what was written about Russell whether is TRUE OR FALSE. Simply because you don't know him. Please, do you know Jesus Christ before you accepted what were written about him?

Now, to say you don't know in detail what Russell said it means you never learn anything because Russell himself wrote books not even one but many.

The scriptures tell us that Solomon was the wisest man on earth, he built the temple which God approved, he wrote part of God's inspired word for us today, he had gods spirit in him, he was called a prophet by some, he was the leader of God's people. But the scriptures tell us that Solomon also built things for other Gods and even worshipped there.

Stop using this poor analogy, did Solomon died as an idolatry? At least Solomon realized that he had been deceived to have worshipped another god and amended his way.

now were those other things he did inspired by God? If the temple was inspired by God, does that mean the places he built for other Gods where also inspired? what do you think solomon would have told his people to make them follow these other gods too.

Did Solomon claim that he was inspired by God to have set up false temple? No! But remember NO JW teaching inspiration was not claimed. Until, you show me where Russell said MOST OR SOME of his teachings were just based on his human knowledge. Then I'll take you serious.

I do not compare Russell to solomon in anyway, but I just want to show you the difference between inspiration and reality.

You are already!
The questions I'll demand of you now are;
1. was Russell ever inspired by God?
2. was there anytime Russell did not inspire by God but still went ahead to deliver his message?
3. How can you differentiate between his inspired message and non-inspired message?

knowledge is a very important aspect when God does his judging, but so is a person's heart condition. thsee two things will play an important role during resurrection.

Knowledge on what?
So it means I don't need to belong to any organization before Jehovah resurrected me.

I do not know what will happen to anyone during the resurrection, but I do know that jehovah will not judge anyone unfairly.

How will you know since you're not a true Bible believing student because every believer in the Bible knows that [b]NO IDOLATER WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD and since Russell and Rutherford died worshipping Jesus Christ which today's JW terms as idolatry.

many have died in different parts of the world knowing nothing, what do you think will become their faith.

Don't shift the topic.
Russell & Rutherford claimed to know about God even being the very mouth piece of God yet their god allowed them died idolaters.

A mother decides to have babies , but she kills them months after their birth, she says they will go to heaven cus they have committed no sin. These children have no knowledge of the truth, does that mean they will go to hell fire? The answer will help us to understand more about how jehovah will judge those with wrong knowledge.

Does it mean Russell possess wrong knowledge?

yes you are right, Jehovahs withnesses started as being bible students, people who study the bible, and that's their foundation. What they tell you from what they have learned does not their foundation, it's like a structure built on the foundation. when they learn new things and realise their error with the old one, they humbly pull it down and rebuild, but still on the foundation of being bible students, always learning from the scriptures.

Just see how devil is playing chess game with your life.
Which means what you hold as truth today can be considered false and error by another person tomorrow.
What happened then? The wrong knowledge continues! Then let Ephe4:14 guide you

Well, on these thread, ive not seen any. you do not know what I've decided or not decided on, but if you think you know, pls tell me one of the things I've decided on(that my grandfather's believed in), why you think it's wrong, and what you think is right.

No matter what you decided, your believe has is root from some of Russell's teachings that were not discarded by today's JW.

The version that I use was published during my time.

And it was just the previous version EDITION.

now you have to provide proof that a particular error was claimed to be inspired.

The question is, was there a time the JW presidents were not inspired?

on David's issue, I wanted to show you that having gods spirit in you is not a claim to perfection, you can still do and say things that displeases God. Moses is another example, his mistakes does not mean he was not inspired to do and say certain things!

We all know that, but has JW ever come out for once to admit that they were never inspired? No! Rather they were busy defending their failed prophecy.

I do not surpport the use of abusive or derogatory statements.
Jonah made a prophecy that did not go according to how he said it.
and like I said, paul(and even you)have not told me anything about Daniels prophecy.

How did Jonah's prophecy didn't go according to how he said it? I care to know.
About Daniel's prophecy are you saying God is lying or your understanding about the prophecy is still shallow?

but you do not look at present Germany by what their father's and grandfather's did in 1941, or do you? whatever it is that they did!

One thing is certain, God can not lie and inspire error.
You already admitted your organization error.
Further more, Christianity is a continuous teaching. If the Apostles contradicted themselves or change their teachings just the way JW does nobody will take them serious. So if the Apostles had discarded Jesus' teaching no Christianity whereas what happened in Germany in 1941is human effect.

going further, I'll prefer to talk about my present beliefs!,cus such can lead me to evalasting life.

Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what you consider as error now in their teaching. Then I'll take you serious.

Emusan:
Yeah you don't need to go back to old believe of people like Russell & Rutherford but can go back to the more older believe of The Apostles.

What if the Apostles have behaved like Russell and Rutherford, which believe will you have hold?

You're learning presently, Yes! But the question is, do you learn on a neutral ground or your learning is still from JW materials?




Imaging, it's now you're claiming what was written about Russell whether is TRUE OR FALSE. Simply because you don't know him. Please, do you know Jesus Christ before you accepted what were written about him?

Now, to say you don't know in detail what Russell said it means you never learn anything because Russell himself wrote books not even one but many.



Stop using this poor analogy, did Solomon died as an idolatry? At least Solomon realized that he had been deceived to have worshipped another god and amended his way.



Did Solomon claim that he was inspired by God to have set up false temple? No! But remember NO JW teaching inspiration was not claimed. Until, you show me where Russell said MOST OR SOME of his teachings were just based on his human knowledge. Then I'll take you serious.



You are already!
The questions I'll demand of you now are;
1. was Russell ever inspired by God?
2. was there anytime Russell did not inspire by God but still went ahead to deliver his message?
3. How can you differentiate between his inspired message and non-inspired message?



Knowledge on what?
So it means I don't need to belong to any organization before Jehovah resurrected me.



How will you know since you're not a true Bible believing student because every believer in the Bible knows that [b]NO IDOLATER WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD and since Russell and Rutherford died worshipping Jesus Christ which today's JW terms as idolatry.



Don't shift the topic.
Russell & Rutherford claimed to know about God even being the very mouth piece of God yet their god allowed them died idolaters.



Does it mean Russell possess wrong knowledge?



Just see how devil is playing chess game with your life.
Which means what you hold as truth today can be considered false and error by another person tomorrow.
What happened then? The wrong knowledge continues! Then let Ephe4:14 guide you




No matter what you decided, your believe has is root from some of Russell's teachings that were not discarded by today's JW.



And it was just the previous version EDITION.




The question is, was there a time the JW presidents were not inspired?



We all know that, but has JW ever come out for once to admit that they were never inspired? No! Rather they were busy defending their failed prophecy.




How did Jonah's prophecy didn't go according to how he said it? I care to know.
About Daniel's prophecy are you saying God is lying or your understanding about the prophecy is still shallow?



One thing is certain, God can not lie and inspire error.
You already admitted your organization error.
Further more, Christianity is a continuous teaching. If the Apostles contradicted themselves or change their teachings just the way JW does nobody will take them serious. So if the Apostles had discarded Jesus' teaching no Christianity whereas what happened in Germany in 1941is human effect.



Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what you consider as error now in their teaching. Then I'll take you serious.

Like I said, going further, I'll prefer if we discuss my present beliefs, that's what I need to examine to gain eternal life.

dolphinheart:
Like I said, going further, I'll prefer if we discuss my present beliefs, that's what I need to examine to gain eternal life.

RE: Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to
ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what
you consider as error now in their teaching. Then
I'll take you serious.

Emusan:
RE: Nothing has change in your believe you still hold to
ALL WHAT JW teaches, unless if you can list what
you consider as error now in their teaching. Then
I'll take you serious.

you want me to list what I consider as error?, why should I do that?. you are the one having issues with my beliefs na, so you should know what your issues are!
If you want to show me that my beliefs are wrong, you are free to do so .

dolphinheart:
you want me to list what I consider as error?, why should I do that?. you are the one having issues with my beliefs na, so you should know what your issues are!
If you want to show me that my beliefs are wrong, you are free to do so .

This is what happened when you know the truth but fixed your mind to follow lies.

One thing is sure, if Christianity started the way JW starts the Body of Christ would've been extinguished but Christianity still exists today because people of today can still hold on to the early of none error or mistake free believe. Nobody claimed to have found his present believe outside of what Jesus Christ and His Apostles taught.

[quote author=Emusan post=44425448]This is what happened when you know the truth but fixed your mind to follow lies.

One thing is sure, if Christianity started the way JW starts the Body of Christ would've been extinguished but Christianity still exists today because people of today can still hold on to the early of none error or mistake free believe. Nobody claimed to have found his present believe outside of what Jesus Christ and His Apostles taught.[/quote

which christianity? churches that are fueling war in many lands. churches that are indulging immorality. churches that are worshipping human rulers even wicked leaders. jw is only christian group that is closed to apostles in term of practice and beliefs.

Emusan:
This is what happened when you know the truth but fixed your mind to follow lies.

One thing is sure, if Christianity started the way JW starts the Body of Christ would've been extinguished but Christianity still exists today because people of today can still hold on to the early of none error or mistake free believe. Nobody claimed to have found his present believe outside of what Jesus Christ and His Apostles taught.

mistake free believes such as trinity , hellfire , immortal soul , everybody go to heaven .


o ma se fun e o .

joyandfaith:
Churches that are fueling war in many lands. churches that are indulging immorality. churches that are worshipping human rulers even wicked leaders.

Lol...how does JW exempt from these?

jw is only christian group that is closed to apostles in term of practice and beliefs.

Imaging you're closed to Apostles practice & belief which is over 1000years older than your founder Russell yet you couldn't close to your own founder's practice and belief.

Please, will you have closed to the Apostles practice and belief had it been they behaved like Russell?

[quote author=joyandfaith post=44427850][/quote]And who told you that there are denominations that do not support war? As far as am concerned I am yet to see a christain denomination that does not punish sexual immorality. Mormons and 7th day adventist, do not “worship human rulers"- they are neutral in politics.

There are some apostolic beliefs and practises JW's have abandoned e.g belief in miracles and church charisms, JW's call their gatherings Kingdom hall, a word that is not even in the bible. Maybe when you show me an early century christain who refused to take blood transfusion (that is if modern hospital exists during bible times ) then your claim would be taken more seriously.

dolphinheart:
you are right, Jesus said, he and the father are one. but he also said said gods loyal servants will be one with him and the father. Therefore , in my own understanding, to be one does not mean they are the same or are equal.



you are right bro, the disciples ones asked jesus to show them the father and Jesus responded. but one thing is clear, Jesus is not the father.
The disciples know and acknowledge that Jesus is the son of the living God, so what did Jesus mean by the statement.

Heb 1:3 and col 1:15 guides us . The son is the exact representation of the father, remember jesus said everything he is teaching is from the father. so when you listen to jesus, you are listening to the father.


depends on what you mean by Godliness, is it the same Godliness those who will go to heaven will partake in?
cus even if they partake in it, it does not make then equal to God.
If "godliness" means "divine nature" , then I agree with you that Jesus has same divine nature as God.


yep you are right, if you want to worship the Father, you have to do what the one he sent tells you to do.


Jesus did not say he is God Almighty, the Pharisees got it wrong, and Jesus even quotes the scriptures for them. They do not understand that Jesus was once a spirit residing in heaven with God, they taught jesus was human who never had divine nature.

Jesus is the Lamb, which points to the fact that Jesus is not the almighty God.

I believe the main issue here is if Jesus' divinity, unlike mens, is worthy of worship. I also agree, that though part of the Father and the Holy Spirit, God the father is His God too, hence, above Him in spiritual authority. That does not affect His authority over us.

This is what John saw:


Revelation 5:13 |
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The contention comes when we get in the picture, can we get to God without Christ? I say no. You should answer that question so that I know your line of thought.

The Truth is that Christ in His glory, is way greater than men(we agree?). Greater that all the Holy Angels, so we are dealing with power that is only comparable To GOD'S. It is He that descended to death to open up a new age in the world, and it is He, who treads down the principalities of the age (spiritual powers) at the end.

Emusan:
Lol...how does JW exempt from these?



Imaging you're closed to Apostles practice & belief which is over 1000years older than your founder Russell yet you couldn't close to your own founder's practice and belief.


Please, will you have closed to the Apostles practice and belief had it been they behaved like Russell?

Listen to the nonsense you wrote above , Russell is their founder yet they didn't come close to his teachings and practice , how can Russell be their founder if they didn't accept all his teachings ?

you need to be educated here :

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/founder/

paulGrundy:
And who told you that there are denominations that do not support war? As far as am concerned I am yet to see a christain denomination that does not punish sexual immorality. Mormons and 7th day adventist, do not “worship human rulers"- they are neutral in politics.

There are some apostolic beliefs and practises JW's have abandoned e.g belief in miracles and church charisms, JW's call their gatherings Kingdom hall, a word that is not even in the bible. Maybe when you show me an early century christain who refused to take blood transfusion (that is if modern hospital exists during bible times ) then your claim would be taken more seriously.

so there are good things about jw. if there are good things about them, why not let the world know good and things about them. that is balance arguements. what is meaning of church? it is another word for congregation. home work for u. jw uses christian congregation of jw. place of meeting is called kingdom hall. worshippers are known as church or congregation. is it a crime for je to call place of worship kingdom hall? that is irrelevant arguement. blood transfusion?
there are safe alternatives to blood. and blood transfusion does not mean patients will survive. many patients have died with blood treatment. muslims will not take vaccine prepare from pigs serum and some churches will not take drugs at all or go to hospitals. you have no points against jws and ur attacks even make them strongers becasuse they are based on unverified info and outright lie.
let me ask you, have u tried to examine present beliefs and practice of jw from one of their ministers or jw.org and made informed decision. forming on an opinion based on one sided report could wrong. bible tells naive one believe in every words.

paulGrundy:
And who told you that there are denominations that do not support war? As far as am concerned I am yet to see a christain denomination that does not punish sexual immorality. Mormons and 7th day adventist, do not “worship human rulers"- they are neutral in politics.

There are some apostolic beliefs and practises JW's have abandoned e.g belief in miracles and church charisms, JW's call their gatherings Kingdom hall, a word that is not even in the bible. Maybe when you show me an early century christain who refused to take blood transfusion (that is if modern hospital exists during bible times ) then your claim would be taken more seriously.

so there are good things about jw. if there are good things about them, why not let the world know good and things about them. that is balance arguements. what is meaning of church? it is another word for congregation. home work for u. jw uses christian congregation of jw. place of meeting is called kingdom hall. worshippers are known as church or congregation. is it a crime for jw to call place of worship kingdom hall? that is irrelevant arguement. blood transfusion?
there are safe alternatives to blood. and blood transfusion does not mean patients will survive. many patients have died with blood treatment. muslims will not take vaccine prepare from pigs serum and some churches will not take drugs at all or go to hospitals. do you launch campaign against them? no. it is hatred for jw will either kill you or confuse your life more. you have no points against jws and ur attacks even make them strongers becasuse they are based on unverified info and outright lie.
let me ask you, have u tried to examine present beliefs and practice of jw from one of their ministers or jw.org and made informed decision. forming on an opinion based on one sided report could wrong. bible tells naive one believe in every words.

paulGrundy:
And who told you that there are denominations that do not support war? As far as am concerned I am yet to see a christain denomination that does not punish sexual immorality. Mormons and 7th day adventist, do not “worship human rulers"- they are neutral in politics.

There are some apostolic beliefs and practises JW's have abandoned e.g belief in miracles and church charisms, JW's call their gatherings Kingdom hall, a word that is not even in the bible. Maybe when you show me an early century christain who refused to take blood transfusion (that is if modern hospital exists during bible times ) then your claim would be taken more seriously.

so there are good things about jw. if there are good things about them, why not let the world know good and things about them. that is balance arguements. what is meaning of church? it is another word for congregation. home work for u. jw uses christian congregation of jw. place of meeting is called kingdom hall. worshippers are known as church or congregation. is it a crime for jw to call place of worship kingdom hall? that is irrelevant arguement. blood transfusion?
there are safe alternatives to blood. and blood transfusion does not mean patients will survive. many patients have died with blood treatment. muslims will not take vaccine prepare from pigs serum and some churches will not take drugs at all or go to hospitals. do you launch campaign against them? no. it is hatred for jw will either kill you or confuse your life more. you have no points against jws and ur attacks even make them strongers becasuse they are based on unverified info and outright lie.
let me ask you, have u tried to examine present beliefs and practice of jw from one of their ministers or jw.org and made informed decision. forming on an opinion based on one sided report could wrong. bible tells naive one believe in every words.

many churches condone immoralities and war and you would not create a website for that . or those issues are not important. sir/ma , try to be impartial.

CAPTIVATOR:
Listen to the nonsense you wrote above , Russell is their founder yet they didn't come close to his teachings and practice , how can Russell be their founder if they didn't accept all his teachings ?

you need to be educated here :

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/founder/

Olodo...you crawled out of somewhere and jump into what doesn't concern you.

Russell and Rutherford worshipped Jesus till they died, did any JW do that today? NO!

Most teachings of Russell and Rutherford are considered WRONG by today's JW, true or false? TRUE!

So, who is spewing nonsense here? CAPITAL YOU!

Emusan:
Olodo...you crawled out of somewhere and jump into what doesn't concern you.

Russell and Rutherford worshipped Jesus till they died, did any JW do that today? NO!

Most teachings of Russell and Rutherford are considered WRONG by today's JW, true or false? TRUE!

So, who is spewing nonsense here? CAPITAL YOU!

You are replying a robot, have you ever seen were a robot gives intelligent responses?

Mtcheeeew.

Emusan:
This is what happened when you know the truth but fixed your mind to follow lies.

One thing is sure, if Christianity started the way JW starts the Body of Christ would've been extinguished but Christianity still exists today because people of today can still hold on to the early of none error or mistake free believe. Nobody claimed to have found his present believe outside of what Jesus Christ and His Apostles taught.

Ill be glad if you talk about what I presently believe in

dolphinheart:
Ill be glad if you talk about what I presently believe in

If you don't know what to say stop quoting me, OK!

How can I know your present belief? Am I a witch or do we share the same mind?

List your present belief and let us see whether is of any way different from Watchtower teaching. Period!

Muafrika2:
I believe the main issue here is if Jesus' divinity, unlike mens, is worthy of worship. I also agree, that though part of the Father and the Holy Spirit, God the father is His God too, hence, above Him in spiritual authority. That does not affect His authority over us.

This is what John saw:


Revelation 5:13 |
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

yes jesus has authority over us humans, he had been given that authority at his resurrection.(Matt 28:18, Eph 1: 20,21, phi 2:9). but being given such authority does not mean he is equal to God, for the scriptures still tell us that the head of man is Christ.....The head of christ is God.(1 cor 11:3).
And after he had fulfilled everything, he will hand everything over to God.

you can see from rev 5:13 that Jesus is not the one sitted on the throne, does this not tell me and you that trinity is a false teaching?

The contention comes when we get in the picture, can we get to God without Christ? I say no. You should answer that question so that I know your line of thought.

my answer to this question is dependent on my understanding of the statement "get to god".
I believe we cannot approach God without Christ. cus jesus said he is the way, no other savior has God given to mankind. therefore there is no other means we can use to approach God except through Jesus.

The Truth is that Christ in His glory, is way greater than men(we agree?). Greater that all the Holy Angels, so we are dealing with power that is only comparable To GOD'S. It is He that descended to death to open up a new age in the world, and it is He, who treads down the principalities of the age (spiritual powers) at the end.

yep, we agree, the scriptures says he dwells in Un approachable light. But we are not dealing with power that is comparable to God's(the father), all the power, authority, glory and name that Jesus now has was given to him by God. God exalted jesus to his present position, therefore we cannot compare the giver with the one being given. God is the supreme being , Jesus is not. Jesus will be called a mighty God, but his God is the one called the almighty God.

dolphinheart:
I believe we cannot approach God without Christ. cus jesus said he is the way, no other savior has God given to mankind. therefore there is no other means we can use to approach God except through Jesus.

Am glad you believe the bolded, but am not clear you know that your organization teaches the contrary of the bolded or you may just be telling lies to save face.

"Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 Jun 1 p.16

"During the final period of the ancient world that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful preacher of righteousness. (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known Gods righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

"In effect, Jesus also conveys Jehovah’s voice to us as he directs the congregation through “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45) We need to take this guidance and direction seriously, for our everlasting life depends on our obedience." Watchtower 2014 Aug 15 p.21

^^ those are your present beliefs teaching that salvation is dependent on your loyalty to the society, jesus was not even mentioned.

Emusan:
If you don't know what to say stop quoting me, OK!

How can I know your present belief? Am I a witch or do we share the same mind?

List your present belief and let us see whether is of any way different from Watchtower teaching. Period!

So you dnt know my present beliefs, yet you say I follow the beliefs of an organization.
If you dnt want me to quote you, then dnt quote my post.
If you have issues with an organization, bet you can get in touch with them and clear it out, dnt join my beliefs with such issues. Russell is dead and buried long time ago, I do not know him. There are things written about him, but the truth or falsehood or such written things are determined by the writers intentions.
There are things written about Jesus too, but the truth or falsehood of such written things
are determined by the writers intentions. I believe all things written in the scriptures about Jesus cus they are accurate, do not contradict each other and are inspired. but I do not believe all stories written about Jesus, same with Russell.

bring him down whichever way you can, he cannot respond , he is dead!. his beliefs till he died does not determine mine!

attacking an organizations past beliefs does not mean their present beliefs are wrong, and above all , you offer no alternatives