₦airaland Forum

zodiakzax:
have you read your answers? Does it even make sense to you? I've given you those scriptures and comparisons bcs Jesus did what God alone can do. And please Jesus was never addressed as our Father because it was through Him eternal life came from. John 15 Christ called the apostles brethren. We are joint -heirs with Him. He asked us to call God Father. Where did you get that info from. Give me one scripture that says Jesus was called Father? He's everlasting Father same us God.

Micah 5:2(ISV):

As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, even though you remain least among the clans of Judah, nevertheless, the one who rules in Israel for me will emerge from you. His existence has been from antiquity, even from eternity.

And He's the Mighty God. Wanted to see if you guys interpret it as mighty god. You don't even know what you are doing. Satan is always limited in his wisdom.

Jozzy4:
proverb 8:22-30 , personified wisdom claims to be with Yahweh in the process of creation, no other person but Jesus Christ

zodiakzax:
please read this and let me know what you think:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_wisdom_created.htm


And if that Is the case then what you are saying that Jesus was created is true then. But that is not the case Prov 8 is not talking about Jesus. Wisdom was indeed with God but also note that wisdom said she was there when the world was created but Christ was the one who created the world as we know. "All things were made BY Him and without Him was not was not anything made that was made. Wisdom is one of the Sephirots used in creation. You can understand better if you also read about it here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokhmah_(Kabbalah)

zodiakzax:
you didn't answer my question. I believe none of us wrote the Bible here, in fact it doesn't matter what my brother Johnw74 thinks, it doesn't even matter what I think. What matters is the truth so answer my question and stop talking nonsense. And besides we are not like you guys, if am wrong he can simply tell me what he thinks and give me his reasons and I will also do my research to see if it's true. Any reasonable person who wants the truth will do that. In any ways you can read this if you want.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_wisdom_created.htm

johnw74:
zodiaczax, jozz probably only knows about proverbs 8:22-30 because I done a short post on it here at this forum long ago.

In proverbs 8:22 the Hebrew word "qanah" can mean create, and it can mean possess, I say possess because
it aligns with John 1:1

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

also the Word is not created, He is God's Spirit.

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

I have no problem for the Word being created, in as much as He was made into another person, and that's what happened at that time, but His Spirit has always been in God, the Word has always existed in God, He was set up, God bought Him forth.

Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

I won't say more here at this thread, but that gives you something to study on.

I'm going to read from that link you gave and I may learn something as well.

be of good cheer

Jozzy4:
john, the Word is Gods spirit ? do u mean Jesus is Gods holy spirit ?

johnw74:
I won't say more here at this thread, but that gives you something to study on.

johnw74:
zodiaczax, jozz probably only knows about proverbs 8:22-30 because I done a short post on it here at this forum long ago.

In proverbs 8:22 the Hebrew word "qanah" can mean create, and it can mean possess, I say possess because
it aligns with John 1:1

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

also the Word is not created, He is God's Spirit.

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

I have no problem for the Word being created, in as much as He was made into another person, and that's what happened at that time, but the Word has always existed in God, He was set up, God bought Him forth.

Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

I won't say more here at this thread, but that gives you something to study on.

I'm going to read from that link you gave and I may learn something as well.

be of good cheer

johnw74:
fancy thinking I would give pearls to phony jozzy or to any false jw

Jozzy4:
the link maintains that the verse is speaking of literal wisdom, so that means Yahweh was a time dull and without wisdom ?

zodiakzax:
is that what you think the link is saying? Really? Lol.. you havn't made a Lil sense since you started with your arguments. Asking dumb questions
.

Jozzy4:
bookmarked. its on record that u said the Word (Jesus ) is Gods spirit ( holyspirit)

got ya.

Aside from Michael, no archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor do the Scriptures use the term “archangel” in the plural. The Bible describes Michael as the archangel, implying that he alone bears that designation. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.

[right]Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ.

The apostle Paul made specific mention of “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: “He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”—1 Peter 3:22.

While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus, there is one scripture that links Jesus with the office of archangel.

In his letter to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul prophesied: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

[s]After his own resurrection, Jesus was raised to a “superior position” in heaven as a spirit creature. [/s](Philippians 2:9) No longer a human, [s]he has the voice of an archangel. So when God’s trumpet sounded the call for “those who are dead in union with Christ” to be raised to heaven, Jesus issued “a commanding call,” this time “with an archangel’s voice.” It is reasonable to conclude that only an archangel would call “with an archangel’s voice.”[/s]

[s]Yes, there are other angelic creatures of high rank, such as seraphs and cherubs. (Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2) Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel.[/s]


I hope that this answers you.

Jozzy4:
not a dumb question as u think. i believe u only wanna use that to evade the point

if proverb 8:22-30 is talking about literal wisdom, does it mean there was a time Yahweh lacks wisdom ?answer

this was why I quote philipians 2:6 again. the word is FORM not nature.[

form /fɔːm/
noun
1. the visible shape or configuration of something.
2. a particular way in which a thing exists or appears.

1) so pls, what is the Form of God ?

about nature
nature /ˈneɪtʃə/
noun
1. the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations.
2. the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities of something.

going with the bold, one basic feature of God is that he knows the end of the conclusion of things, did Jesus know this ?

zodiakzax:
okay read and lemme know what you think. I bet we will understand eachothe there.

Jozzy4:
the link maintains that the verse is speaking of literal wisdom, so that means Yahweh was a time dull and without wisdom ?

Jozzy4:
Oga, Jesus once been a man , retains the description of man. this doesn't mean Jesus is flesh and blood, with intestines, anus , or male genital in heaven ... tell me , do u agree Jesus have blood, and a male genital in heaven ?

johnw74:
There are those who see it diffrently to me zax, I don't know what is the most popular scenario.

Here is another short read that I think is similar to the read at the link you gave:

http://www.equip.org/article/who-is-wisdom-in-proverbs-8/

But we won't discuss it here, you know how phony jw interject with falsehoods.

zodiakzax:
(10).God will come with all the holy ones (Zech 14:5), Jesus will come with all the holy ones (1Thess 3:13);

(11)Only God is our savior (Isa 43:11), Jesus is our savior (Tit 2:13, 2Pet 1:1)

(12)God is the creator of the universe (Isa 44:24, Jer 27:5), Jesus is the creator of the universe ( Jn 1:3),

solite3:
Isaiah 42:12 English standard version
12. I made the earth and created man on it, it was my hands that stretched out heavens, and I commanded their host.
]Isaiah 45:12. Amplified Bible
12. I made the earth and created man upon it.
My hands stretched out the heavens
And I commanded all their host.


Isaiah 44:24. New world translation (NWT)
This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the former of you from the belly.
I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
This verse alone completely destroys Watchtowers theology because it obliterates any notion that Jehovah used a junior partner in the act of creation. The rhetorical question" who was with me?" is "No one". This is what sets Jehovah apart

Isaiah 45:12. NWT
"I myself [ Jehovah] [/b]have made the earth and have created even man upon it. I, my own hands have stretched out the heavens, and all the army I have commanded"
Again, Jehovah emphasizes "I myself" used " my own hands". Jehovah was the lone craftsman.

Isaiah 48:13, NWT "Moreover, [b]My own hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my own right hand extended out the heavens. I am calling to them, that they may keep standing together.
This verse not only indicates that Jehovah's " Own hand" created heaven and earth, but that Jehovah is sustaining his creation as well.
When one examines New Testament verse regarding Jesus, one can see that Jesus is also credited as creator and sustainer. For example

John 1:3 NWT " All things came into existence
[color=#770077]through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence"

Col 1:16-17 NWT " ....because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or government or authorities. All[ other] things and by means of him all [ other] things were made to exist.[/color]
Heb 1:2. NWT " God who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at these end of days spoken by means of a son whom he had appointed heir of all things, through whom he made the systems of things. He is the reflection of [ his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power.

AS TRINITARIANS, WE DON' T DENY THAT THE FATHER MADE THE WORLD THROUGH THE SON. BUT WITH SCRIPTURE, WE AFFIRM THAT ONLY JEHOVAH CREATED.
THEREFORE, THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE BOTH JEHOVAH.


The Jw ought to give serious reflection as to what he called Jesus " THE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF [JEHOVAH'S] BEING.

Still load...ing
Dolphinsheart
Goodnews
Barrister
Jozzy
An any witness should respond to these post failure to do so will go a long way to show your bible twisting nature

brocab:
Quote> Can the almighty God have a God? "Yes" to this question"

{divine nature} Lets read what the bible say's "God called Jesus "God" in {Hebrews 1:8} But of the Son He say's your throne "O GOD" Is forever and ever. So yes God the Father called Jesus God, Not a god, but God.

Quote> Does Jesus have a God at the moment.
Yes" Jesus also has the Holy Spirit and He is part of the divine nature with The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. {1 John 5:7}

Quote> Does Jesus have a God He is subjected at this moment. Jesus sits at God's right hand side in heaven {Mark 16:19}

Quote> Can the Almighty God be subjected to anyone? "Yes" God had raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Jesus Christ {Ephesians 2:6}

Now you can answer one for me, Is Jesus a divine being with the Father?

brocab:
Are you backing down dolphinheart? This doesn't sound like you.

zodiakzax:
is that what you think the link is saying? Really? Lol.. you havn't made a Lil sense since you started with your arguments. Asking dumb questions and don't even know what you are talking about. Anyway I can only assume nothing we tell you will change your mind as John74 said, accepting this might mean excommunication so I understand, but remember Hell is real and if you don't open your eyes it might just get a grip of you and ur fellow JW's, repent therefore and be saved.

dolphinheart:
(10)King James Version
Zec 14:5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee

King James Version
1Th 3:13To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Does the verses above mean jesus is Jehovah?no
there is more to this coming which might be discussed later, but not verse 11 to 13 of 2 thess 3:13 which had already differentiated jesus from God, one can read John chapter 17 to see who gave jesus this saints !

King James Version
1Th 3:11-13[u]Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ,[/u] direct our way unto you.
1Th 3:12And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you.
1Th 3:13To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.


(11)Isa 43:11I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”
Tit 2:13while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ,
2Pe 1:1Simon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have acquired a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and the Savior Jesus Christ:
are those verses telling us that because jesus is our savior, it mean he is Jehovah, the almighty God who said their is no savior beside him? The answer is no!

Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance.
at times past, he sent people to save the isrealites.
Jg 2:16So Jehovah would raise up judges who would save them from the hand of their plunderers.
Jg 3:9When the Israelites called to Jehovah for help, Jehovah raised up a savior to rescue the Israelites, Othʹni·el the son of Keʹnaz, the younger brother of Caʹleb.
Jg 3:15Then the Israelites called to Jehovah for help, so Jehovah raised up for them a savior, Eʹhud the son of Geʹra, a Benʹja·min·ite who was left-handed. In time the Israelites sent tribute through him to Egʹlon the king of Moʹab.

When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials
Heb 5:7During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.
Ps 28:8Jehovah is a strength for his people; He is a stronghold, bringing grand salvation to his anointed one.

Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.”
Isa 49:26I will make those who mistreat you eat their own flesh, And as with sweet wine, they will become drunk with their own blood. And all people will have to know that I am Jehovah, Your Savior and your Repurchaser, The Powerful One of Jacob.”
Isa 60:16

In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ

1Jo 4:14In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as Savior of the world.
King James Version
Ac 5:31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Therefore jesus can also be called our savior, but the scriptures has shown he is not Jehovah or almighty God.
[b]Jude 25 to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glormajesty, might, and authority for all past eternity and now and into all eternity. Amen.


(12) Sir, I believe this has been handled.

will continue later, pls bear with me ..........

johnw74:
phony jw, I said exactly what the bible verse said, which you obviously don't believe:

quote johnw74: "the Word is not created, He is God's Spirit"

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

By the way you added to, and took away from what I said, so you also get a new name


Lie Lie jozzy

zodiakzax:
this only shows how unlearned you are on this subject. When Paul made that statement wasn't Jesus already in heaven?

Whether He has a genital or not, that does not concern me.

He's God and is a our High priest and He's still having the nature of man. Rev 22:16? Waiting...

solite3:
this question should be directed to you, it was you who said wisdom was created

solite3:
Solite still loading.next will be on the overwhelming proof that Jesus is God. but first I want to ask all Jehovah witness this question

IS JESUS A TRUE GOD OR A FALSE GOD.
since you said Jesus is a God, is it not good to know the type of God he is?

Jozzy4:
yea, but he was speaking with reference to Jesus mission on earth as a man, that is to " gave himself as a ransom for all " 1 Tim 2:6



hahahahaha be specific , doesnt concern u my foot ? ... get ready to accept whatever that comes with ur irrational theories, what about BLOOD aftrall he is a human being? remember flesh and blood cnnot inherit the kingdom of God.



Jesus is God in the sense of being a Mighty one. but he is not God in the definition of the supreme being- 1 cor 15:28, he has a God he worships too

*** and what happen to Rev 22:16? u can as well say Jesus is a literal lamb since he was calld a lamb