₦airaland Forum

It may interest you to know that C.T Russell also celebrated christmas but JWs today do not celebrate christmas in line with new understanding of the scriptures. And many today have come to realize that Christmas is rooted in pegan celebration. So JWs are not follower of CT Russell but followers of christ.

JWs do not assume to know everything correctly from the bible, so humbly and prayerfully JWs search the scripture asking God's holy spirit for guidance.

There are so many things you can learn and know from a one on one discussion with JWs, they are always available. If you are in Lagos, I'll gladly oblige your invitation so we can reason from the scripture and not strive to win an arguement.

MrEmekaa:
It may interest you to know that C.T Russell also celebrated christmas but JWs today do not celebrate christmas in line with new understanding of the scriptures. And many today have come to realize that Christmas is rooted in pegan celebration. So JWs are not follower of CT Russell but followers of christ.

JWs do not assume to know everything correctly from the bible, so humbly and prayerfully JWs search the scripture asking God's holy spirit for guidance.

There are so many things you can learn and know from a one on one discussion with JWs, they are always available. If you are in Lagos, I'll gladly oblige your invitation so we can reason from the scripture and not strive to win an arguement.

. I believe this thread is full of our scriptures and concern, you can Go through everyone one of them and see if you can in all honesty come to the Knowledge of the truth. No need for anyone to come you, all we have to say is here. You talk about Christmas but did Russell stated in The Finished mystery that Jesus said he shld celebrate Christmas? No, so whether you celebrate or not it is your own choice, Paul said let no man judge you in new moons,holidays(celebrations) and sabbath for they were all shadow of the things to come. Christmas is not a doctrine, its a tradition. One has a choice to either celebrate it or not. Whether that was the day Christ was born or not, that wouldn't have any effect on my salvation. I blv He was born and born as both man and God period. Russell says Jesus Christ gave him the words to write hence the finished mystery is divine and from Jesus. If that is so then why would you Change Jesus' own instructions to Russell? Is Jesus a lair? No. He's words will remain forever.

Thanks for you honesty about Russell, The day Christ is born, wise men had given Christ gifts a long with the shepherds and all had worshipped Jesus on His birthday. God directed wise men and the shepherds to celebrate Him in remembrance that He arrived to save the world.
That's worth celebrating, call it pagan as you wish? Pagans religion started back around the Roman Catholic era, Catholic's and pagan religion are much the same. Pagans worship Isis holding her child the Queen of Heaven the Mother of God, and the Catholic's worship Mary holding her child the Queen of Heaven the Mother of God.
Both religions line up together having slightly different meanings, to each of their holidays. Copy cats that worship pagan religion.

But to celebrate Christ either on His birthday or the day He died, is worth celebrating, in remembrance of Him. And like you" we also celebrate His death, in remembrance He shed His own blood for His people. As well as God gave us remembrance He was born to save the world.
Travelling to Lagos, at the moment is out of my league, the problem is, my only connections to you is on this page, My home is far far away and it isn't in Nairaland I live across the other side of the world.
And the JW's over here had already black listed me, I am sure you already know what that means.

MrEmekaa:
It may interest you to know that C.T Russell also celebrated christmas but JWs today do not celebrate christmas in line with new understanding of the scriptures. And many today have come to realize that Christmas is rooted in pegan celebration. So JWs are not follower of CT Russell but followers of christ.

JWs do not assume to know everything correctly from the bible, so humbly and prayerfully JWs search the scripture asking God's holy spirit for guidance.

There are so many things you can learn and know from a one on one discussion with JWs, they are always available. If you are in Lagos, I'll gladly oblige your invitation so we can reason from the scripture and not strive to win an arguement.

brocab:
No more lies dolphinheart you are deceiving yourself.

it is you that need's to stop lying, stop changing the issues under discussion whenever you are being exposed, stop being blind to scriptures being posted to you.

Finely you had answered {Revelation 1:4} by Charles Russell's view who is, who was, and who is to come, isn't the same as your answer, Russell believes the Almighty is Jesus and not the Father.

Ive not only explained rev 1,4, I've explained rev 1:1,4-8, Rev 3:2,12 , and heb 1:9.
This scriptures you had been asked months ago to explain, but you have shown to be INCAPABLE of doing so!, always trying to shift the topic whenever you are asked to do so .
pls since you have read Russell's book, pls post what he wrote, since you have been proven to be liar.

even your friend solite3 have told you that the person who is who was and who is to come is the father , but you say it's a different person entirely , you say it's Jesus . you can only
to prove this by not reading verse 1,5 and 6 of rev chapter 1, you know that if you ever dared to quote it and explain it, you will be exposed with your own words! , hence you refused to quote and EX plain it.

excerpts from a Web page :
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ , which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation? This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God. The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1. Put another way, let’s illustrate by changing names and replacing them with simple modern ones:
· The Revelation of Bob, which Sam gave him…
In this example, Sam gave Bob the revelation; if we use the Jesus is God logic, the sentence would read, “The Revelation of Bob, which Bob gave to himself…” I know it’s an absurd choice of examples, and that’s my point. To say Jesus is “God” based on the context is flat out contradictory. I want to continue examining the verses that precede verse 8 because the context clearly establishes 1:8 is NOT referring to Jesus Christ but rather God the Father, who IS the ONLY Almighty (Pantokrátœr) in the New Testament.

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ , even to all that he saw. (NAS)

The contrast between God Almighty and Jesus the man in Revelation 1:2 is the use of the conjunction, “ AND,” which serves to join two distinctly separate phrases. The word “ AND ” separates the phrase, “the word of God,” from the phrase, “the testimony of Jesus.” The apostle John, bore witness to distinct separate beings; God Almighty and Jesus the man.

Next in verses 4-6 he again makes the distinction between different three separate personages. I have color coded the verse to show clearly the distinctive differences; Blue = God Almighty ; Purple = the seven spirits and Red = Jesus the man,firstborn from among the DEAD (NOTE, God cannot ever be “born” or be “dead”). The dissimilarity between God and Jesus is the them all thru the Book of Revelation, as you will see.

Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come ; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ; AND from Jesus Christ , the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth . To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood , AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)
John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.”

The words, “ and from ,” are used as a conjunction but also to differentiate between three separate parties mentioned; by definition a conjunction not only joins phrases but also divides and separates. This alone PROVES Jesus is not the same as God, and later, in Revelation 1:8, this is verified. The message is TO the seven churches and FROM the following THREE parties:

· From Him who is and who was and who is to come
· AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne
· AND from Jesus Christ the first-born of the dead AND the ruler of the kings of the earth

Notice carefully the word “from” is omitted after the conjunction “AND” the ruler of the kings…” The reason for this is quite simple; the message is not “from” a fourth party, but this is a second role description of Jesus who is the “ruler” of the kings of “earth.”
Notice he is not called the ruler of the kings in “heaven.” Also, FYI the word “ruler” aptly defined means, “magistrate.”
To verify this meaning, look at the definition of a magistrate from Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary, which was written in the same era as most all other Bible reference tools such as Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Old & New Testaments, Englishman’s Hebrew & Greek Concordances and many more. Therefore the 1828 version of Webster’s is more apt to convey the most accurate meaning of magistrate or in Revelation 1:5, “the ruler,” as used by the translators of most modern Bibles.
MAGISTRATE, n. [L. magistratus, from magister, master; magis, major, and ster, Teutonic steora, a director ; steoran , to steer; the principal director.] A public civil officer, invested with the executive government of some branch of it. In this sense, a king is the highest or first magistrate, as is the President of the United States .
But the word is more particularly applied to subordinate officers, as governors, intendants, prefects, mayors, justices of the peace, and the like. The magistrate must have his reverence; the laws their authority. MAGISTRATIC adjective = Having the authority of a magistrate.
Now refer to the actual Greek word used in Revelation 1:5 for “ruler” and you will see it is defined as one vested with authority and therefore subordinate to a higher power; in other words, Jesus is the ruler of the earthly kings but he is a glorified man and therefore subordinate to the Father who alone is God Almighty.
Rev 1:5 - “ruler” = archon NT: 758; present participle of NT: 757; a first ( in rank or power ):KJV - chief (ruler), magistrate , prince, ruler . (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

God the Father, who is also known as Yahweh in the OT, is the One, “who is,” because in Exodus 3:14 He tells Moses His name, saying, “I AM THAT I AM.” This is an incomplete translation of the Hebrew wording, “Ehyeh Asshur Ehyeh.” This Hebrew term is more accurately translated as, “ I exist {present tense} as what I AM, and what I have always existed as {in the past tense}, and what I will continue to exist as {in the future}.” This Hebrew phrase matches the Greek equivalent description in Revelation 1:4 perfectly as, “ Him who is {in the present} and who was {in the past} and who is to come {in the future}.” .
Jesus cannot be God Almighty if he is the firstborn from among the dead! Second, in order of rank and importance, John writes concerning Jesus by calling him, “the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead,” who, “released us from our sins by his blood .” Again as mentioned earlier, God cannot die, nor does He have blood like a man.
In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “ his God .”
Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “ to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “ his God and Father?”
John says that Jesus released us from our sins through his blood , and made us to be “priests” to “ his God .” A “priest” is someone that mediates or reconciles men to God; therefore a priest cannot be God . As we continue our context leading up to Revelation 1:8 in Revelation 1:7 we find that Jesus was pierced in the side & God cannot be pierced! Why? Because God is SPIRIT.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him ; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so.
Amen. (NAS)

Revelation 1:7 refers to Jesus Christ as a man, not as God, because 1:6 says Jesus released us from our sins, “ by his blood ” (an obvious reference to his crucifixion). The kingdom of “God” is NOT flesh and “blood,” which means this passage refers to Jesus as a man. Also, the text deals with Christ’s future “coming” in which “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him .” Jesus is not God because God cannot be pierced, primarily because God is a Spirit being and He does not have a body of flesh and bones that can be punctured by nails or spears. Proof? The following verses help clarify and punctuate this point:
John 4:23-24 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (NAS)
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time . The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and
the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. NAS

If Jesus is God and every eye will see him, doesn’t that contradict John 1:18 that says, “ No one has seen God at any time ?” Obviously God has been a “Spirit,” since the very beginning, as illustrated in Genesis 1:1. Jesus reveals the Father to us, because he is a man in submission to the SPIRIT of God, and therefore we learn of the invisible God’s character or likeness (i.e. – What God is “like” such as His compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.) through the example of the MAN.

Okay, now I will answer your question about Revelation 1:8; you asked me:
Why is Jesus called “the Almighty” in Revelation 1:8?
The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega ,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”
Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have
highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending ,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

The New King James Version makes the following disclosure concerning the words, “ the beginning and the ending,” in its notations for Revelation 1:8 (see below):
Revelation 1:8 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “the Beginning and the End.” (NKJV)

Since the best manuscripts eliminate altogether the words, the beginning and the end,” I will not bother taking time to define them. However, if you are familiar with the Textus Receptus, which is the Greek manuscript used by the KJV translators, you will discover that much of what they relied on for their Greek text originated from Erasmus’ work and we know historically the Roman Catholic church pressured him to insert words and phrases by providing him with eleventh century Latin Mss that had been altered or doctored to validate their theological position concerning the trinity.......


.......ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokratoor, pantokratoros, ho; he who holds sway over all things; the ruler of all; almighty: used of God , 2 Corinthians 6:18 ( From Thayer's Greek Lexicon , Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokrátœr; gen. pantokrátoros, masc. noun from pás (3956), all, every, and krátos (NT: 2904), power, strength, dominion. Ruler over all, omnipotent, almighty, spoken only of God as in 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7,14; 19:6,15; 21:22. ( From The Complete Word Study Bible and The Complete Word Study Dictionary : New Testament Copyright © 1991, 1992, 1994, 2002 AMG International, Inc.)

Because Revelation 1:4 uses the identical phrase as 1:8, “who is and who was and who is to come,” when referring to God, neither of these applies to the MAN Christ Jesus.
Revelation 1:8 simply embellishes the phrase in Revelation 1:4 by adding further details as to the IDENTITY of Him, “who is and who was and who is to come.”
To demonstrate my point I have taken Revelation 1:4 & Revelation 1:8 and grouped them next to each other (below) and used highlighted words to illustrate similarities.
Compare the two verses and you will see how accurate this conclusion is:

Revelation 1:4 From Him who is and who was and who is to come and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne. NAS
Revelation 1:8 “ I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” NAS

Both verses use the phrase, “who is and who was and who is to come,” and this is strong indication they refer to the same individual. Revelation 1:4 mentions ownership of, “His throne,” whereas Revelation 1:8 shows His identity as the, “Lord God,” and also as, “the Almighty.”

.... One area of confusion for many Christians is Revelation 1:11. The problem is that the King James Version ADDS words that are not found in any of the early and best manuscripts. The KJV differs from other translations by blatantly ADDING the phrase at the start of Revelation 1:11, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” We can only speculate why the King James translators decided to use the late date Latin manuscripts that erroneously add this to the text, but even the revised King James version known today as, “The New King James Version,” makes the following notation concerning this phrase in Revelation 1:11:
Revelation 1:11 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,” (NKJV)

............... In fairness to the translators of the KJV perhaps we should assume they were just following the Textus Receptus, which has hundreds if not thousands of problems.
One can only speculate, but it appears the KJV translators wanted to make a clear connection between the phrases “Alpha and Omega” and “the first and the last,” and whatever the individual theological position of the translators on the King James committee, the KJV certainly corroborates the view that Christ was “God.” Trinitarian influences no doubt played some role, since the Church of England espouses Jesus Christ as, ‘God the son’ (i.e. - the second person of the Trinity; a co-equal God person, along with the person of the Father & the Holy Spirit). A ridiculous notion indeed!.......

..........Today, it is the preconceived notion and doctrinal prejudice of Christian theologians that defines, “the Alpha and Omega,” as “God,” in Revelation 1:11 and their stubborn ways to use only the KJV because it adds, ‘the first and the last,’ to the text. There are enough credible manuscripts and study tools available for a person to find the correct answers. Throughout its dark and sordid past, the Roman Catholic Church concealed the scriptures from the masses, but there has always been a few people had the passion, drive and the courage to challenge doctrinal prejudices.
Nowadays, people ARE beginning to ask questions. No longer does everyone accept status quo and the advent of Bible software have made comparing Bible translations much easier...........

But this argument of yours is finished, I am blessed by the Lord sending Zodiakzax to pass on the message I needed most.

zodiakzax also passed a message about Jesus being man, I pointed you to his statement, but you refused to respond to it as predicted. just like in Russell's case , you take the part that you think surpports your case and go blind to the ones that you have issues with . This is the same method you had applied to reading the scriptures , you are quick to quote scriptures that you think will surpport your views, but when scriptures that shows you are wrong are posted to you, instant blindness occurs and you refuse to see it, talk less of quoting and explainING.

YOUR AIM IS JUST TO FIND FAULT BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE WHILE REFUSAL TO OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES!

I didn't really need to here it from you, who Christ is, I just wanted to hear it from a JW, and I had accepted Russell's teachings, and he is "the grand JW their was. So this case is closed.
You are just another fly on the wall dolphinheart you were there while it lasted.

you can close any case you want using any means you want, but everyone knows you can't quote those scriptures, neither can you Answer those questions.
* for space purpose, I've omitted those issues at hand.

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUTE THE POINTS ABOVE

zodiakzax the main attraction the big mouth of them all is the high an Almighty Dolphinheart had asked to check out C.T. Russell's site below.
Dolphinheart you are more then welcome, now leave me alone you angry bugger.

zodiakzax:
hahahha you guys will love this. If they want, they can check it out but it will only hurt them. Any way brethren enjoy this.


https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/206938/finished-mystery-1917-book-that-jesus-approved

Just show me in scripture where it say's the Father sat on His throne? And I can show you in scripture that the one who sat on his throne was Jesus.
And if Jesus was never referred to as the Almighty, then theirs a problem with your teachings inside your organisation, Russell himself had written in his manuscripts the Finished Mystery-Jesus approved, Russell does not agree with you, He said {Revelation 1:4-8} these scriptures are talking about Jesus. Like I myself have been saying this all along, so is Russell wrong?

dolphinheart:
it is you that need's to stop lying, stop changing the issues under discussion whenever you are being exposed, stop being blind to scriptures being posted to you.



Ive not only explained rev 1,4, I've explained rev 1:1,4-8, Rev 3:2,12 , and heb 1:9.
This scriptures you had been asked months ago to explain, but you have shown to be INCAPABLE of doing so!, always trying to shift the topic whenever you are asked to do so .
pls since you have read Russell's book, pls post what he wrote, since you have been proven to be liar.

even your friend solite3 have told you that the person who is who was and who is to come is the father , but you say it's a different person entirely , you say it's Jesus . you can only
to prove this by not reading verse 1,5 and 6 of rev chapter 1, you know that if you ever dared to quote it and explain it, you will be exposed with your own words! , hence you refused to quote and EX plain it.

excerpts from a Web page :
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ , which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation? This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God. The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1. Put another way, let’s illustrate by changing names and replacing them with simple modern ones:
· The Revelation of Bob, which Sam gave him…
In this example, Sam gave Bob the revelation; if we use the Jesus is God logic, the sentence would read, “The Revelation of Bob, which Bob gave to himself…” I know it’s an absurd choice of examples, and that’s my point. To say Jesus is “God” based on the context is flat out contradictory. I want to continue examining the verses that precede verse 8 because the context clearly establishes 1:8 is NOT referring to Jesus Christ but rather God the Father, who IS the ONLY Almighty (Pantokrátœr) in the New Testament.

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ , even to all that he saw. (NAS)

The contrast between God Almighty and Jesus the man in Revelation 1:2 is the use of the conjunction, “ AND,” which serves to join two distinctly separate phrases. The word “ AND ” separates the phrase, “the word of God,” from the phrase, “the testimony of Jesus.” The apostle John, bore witness to distinct separate beings; God Almighty and Jesus the man.

Next in verses 4-6 he again makes the distinction between different three separate personages. I have color coded the verse to show clearly the distinctive differences; Blue = God Almighty ; Purple = the seven spirits and Red = Jesus the man,firstborn from among the DEAD (NOTE, God cannot ever be “born” or be “dead”). The dissimilarity between God and Jesus is the them all thru the Book of Revelation, as you will see.

Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come ; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ; AND from Jesus Christ , the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth . To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood , AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)
John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.”

The words, “ and from ,” are used as a conjunction but also to differentiate between three separate parties mentioned; by definition a conjunction not only joins phrases but also divides and separates. This alone PROVES Jesus is not the same as God, and later, in Revelation 1:8, this is verified. The message is TO the seven churches and FROM the following THREE parties:

· From Him who is and who was and who is to come
· AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne
· AND from Jesus Christ the first-born of the dead AND the ruler of the kings of the earth

Notice carefully the word “from” is omitted after the conjunction “AND” the ruler of the kings…” The reason for this is quite simple; the message is not “from” a fourth party, but this is a second role description of Jesus who is the “ruler” of the kings of “earth.”
Notice he is not called the ruler of the kings in “heaven.” Also, FYI the word “ruler” aptly defined means, “magistrate.”
To verify this meaning, look at the definition of a magistrate from Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary, which was written in the same era as most all other Bible reference tools such as Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Old & New Testaments, Englishman’s Hebrew & Greek Concordances and many more. Therefore the 1828 version of Webster’s is more apt to convey the most accurate meaning of magistrate or in Revelation 1:5, “the ruler,” as used by the translators of most modern Bibles.
MAGISTRATE, n. [L. magistratus, from magister, master; magis, major, and ster, Teutonic steora, a director ; steoran , to steer; the principal director.] A public civil officer, invested with the executive government of some branch of it. In this sense, a king is the highest or first magistrate, as is the President of the United States .
But the word is more particularly applied to subordinate officers, as governors, intendants, prefects, mayors, justices of the peace, and the like. The magistrate must have his reverence; the laws their authority. MAGISTRATIC adjective = Having the authority of a magistrate.
Now refer to the actual Greek word used in Revelation 1:5 for “ruler” and you will see it is defined as one vested with authority and therefore subordinate to a higher power; in other words, Jesus is the ruler of the earthly kings but he is a glorified man and therefore subordinate to the Father who alone is God Almighty.
Rev 1:5 - “ruler” = archon NT: 758; present participle of NT: 757; a first ( in rank or power ):KJV - chief (ruler), magistrate , prince, ruler . (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

God the Father, who is also known as Yahweh in the OT, is the One, “who is,” because in Exodus 3:14 He tells Moses His name, saying, “I AM THAT I AM.” This is an incomplete translation of the Hebrew wording, “Ehyeh Asshur Ehyeh.” This Hebrew term is more accurately translated as, “ I exist {present tense} as what I AM, and what I have always existed as {in the past tense}, and what I will continue to exist as {in the future}.” This Hebrew phrase matches the Greek equivalent description in Revelation 1:4 perfectly as, “ Him who is {in the present} and who was {in the past} and who is to come {in the future}.” .
Jesus cannot be God Almighty if he is the firstborn from among the dead! Second, in order of rank and importance, John writes concerning Jesus by calling him, “the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead,” who, “released us from our sins by his blood .” Again as mentioned earlier, God cannot die, nor does He have blood like a man.
In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “ his God .”
Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “ to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “ his God and Father?”
John says that Jesus released us from our sins through his blood , and made us to be “priests” to “ his God .” A “priest” is someone that mediates or reconciles men to God; therefore a priest cannot be God . As we continue our context leading up to Revelation 1:8 in Revelation 1:7 we find that Jesus was pierced in the side & God cannot be pierced! Why? Because God is SPIRIT.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him ; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so.
Amen. (NAS)

Revelation 1:7 refers to Jesus Christ as a man, not as God, because 1:6 says Jesus released us from our sins, “ by his blood ” (an obvious reference to his crucifixion). The kingdom of “God” is NOT flesh and “blood,” which means this passage refers to Jesus as a man. Also, the text deals with Christ’s future “coming” in which “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him .” Jesus is not God because God cannot be pierced, primarily because God is a Spirit being and He does not have a body of flesh and bones that can be punctured by nails or spears. Proof? The following verses help clarify and punctuate this point:
John 4:23-24 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (NAS)
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time . The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and
the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. NAS

If Jesus is God and every eye will see him, doesn’t that contradict John 1:18 that says, “ No one has seen God at any time ?” Obviously God has been a “Spirit,” since the very beginning, as illustrated in Genesis 1:1. Jesus reveals the Father to us, because he is a man in submission to the SPIRIT of God, and therefore we learn of the invisible God’s character or likeness (i.e. – What God is “like” such as His compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.) through the example of the MAN.

Okay, now I will answer your question about Revelation 1:8; you asked me:
Why is Jesus called “the Almighty” in Revelation 1:8?
The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega ,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”
Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have
highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending ,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

The New King James Version makes the following disclosure concerning the words, “ the beginning and the ending,” in its notations for Revelation 1:8 (see below):
Revelation 1:8 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “the Beginning and the End.” (NKJV)

Since the best manuscripts eliminate altogether the words, the beginning and the end,” I will not bother taking time to define them. However, if you are familiar with the Textus Receptus, which is the Greek manuscript used by the KJV translators, you will discover that much of what they relied on for their Greek text originated from Erasmus’ work and we know historically the Roman Catholic church pressured him to insert words and phrases by providing him with eleventh century Latin Mss that had been altered or doctored to validate their theological position concerning the trinity.......


.......ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokratoor, pantokratoros, ho; he who holds sway over all things; the ruler of all; almighty: used of God , 2 Corinthians 6:18 ( From Thayer's Greek Lexicon , Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokrátœr; gen. pantokrátoros, masc. noun from pás (3956), all, every, and krátos (NT: 2904), power, strength, dominion. Ruler over all, omnipotent, almighty, spoken only of God as in 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7,14; 19:6,15; 21:22. ( From The Complete Word Study Bible and The Complete Word Study Dictionary : New Testament Copyright © 1991, 1992, 1994, 2002 AMG International, Inc.)

Because Revelation 1:4 uses the identical phrase as 1:8, “who is and who was and who is to come,” when referring to God, neither of these applies to the MAN Christ Jesus.
Revelation 1:8 simply embellishes the phrase in Revelation 1:4 by adding further details as to the IDENTITY of Him, “who is and who was and who is to come.”
To demonstrate my point I have taken Revelation 1:4 & Revelation 1:8 and grouped them next to each other (below) and used highlighted words to illustrate similarities.
Compare the two verses and you will see how accurate this conclusion is:

Revelation 1:4 From Him who is and who was and who is to come and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne. NAS
Revelation 1:8 “ I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” NAS

Both verses use the phrase, “who is and who was and who is to come,” and this is strong indication they refer to the same individual. Revelation 1:4 mentions ownership of, “His throne,” whereas Revelation 1:8 shows His identity as the, “Lord God,” and also as, “the Almighty.”

.... One area of confusion for many Christians is Revelation 1:11. The problem is that the King James Version ADDS words that are not found in any of the early and best manuscripts. The KJV differs from other translations by blatantly ADDING the phrase at the start of Revelation 1:11, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” We can only speculate why the King James translators decided to use the late date Latin manuscripts that erroneously add this to the text, but even the revised King James version known today as, “The New King James Version,” makes the following notation concerning this phrase in Revelation 1:11:
Revelation 1:11 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,” (NKJV)

............... In fairness to the translators of the KJV perhaps we should assume they were just following the Textus Receptus, which has hundreds if not thousands of problems.
One can only speculate, but it appears the KJV translators wanted to make a clear connection between the phrases “Alpha and Omega” and “the first and the last,” and whatever the individual theological position of the translators on the King James committee, the KJV certainly corroborates the view that Christ was “God.” Trinitarian influences no doubt played some role, since the Church of England espouses Jesus Christ as, ‘God the son’ (i.e. - the second person of the Trinity; a co-equal God person, along with the person of the Father & the Holy Spirit). A ridiculous notion indeed!.......

..........Today, it is the preconceived notion and doctrinal prejudice of Christian theologians that defines, “the Alpha and Omega,” as “God,” in Revelation 1:11 and their stubborn ways to use only the KJV because it adds, ‘the first and the last,’ to the text. There are enough credible manuscripts and study tools available for a person to find the correct answers. Throughout its dark and sordid past, the Roman Catholic Church concealed the scriptures from the masses, but there has always been a few people had the passion, drive and the courage to challenge doctrinal prejudices.
Nowadays, people ARE beginning to ask questions. No longer does everyone accept status quo and the advent of Bible software have made comparing Bible translations much easier...........


zodiakzax also passed a message about Jesus being man, I pointed you to his statement, but you refused to respond to it as predicted. just like in Russell's case , you take the part that you think surpports your case and go blind to the ones that you have issues with . This is the same method you had applied to reading the scriptures , you are quick to quote scriptures that you think will surpport your views, but when scriptures that shows you are wrong are posted to you, instant blindness occurs and you refuse to see it, talk less of quoting and explainING.

YOUR AIM IS JUST TO FIND FAULT BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE WHILE REFUSAL TO OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES!




you can close any case you want using any means you want, but everyone knows you can't quote those scriptures, neither can you Answer those questions.
* for space purpose, I've omitted those issues at hand.

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUTE THE POINTS ABOVE

brocab:
zodiakzax the main attraction the big mouth of them all is the high an Almighty Dolphinheart had asked to check out C.T. Russell's site below.
Dolphinheart you are more then welcome, now leave me alone.

leave you alone ke!, you are talking about others, using lies and defamation and you dnt want to be left alone!?

well ill leave you alone if you attend to this issues, they have been on ground for months!
issues at hand:

I brought up and issue on what he said about Jesus when he was on earth, hope you will agree that God's Spirit helped him make such statement too, but knowing you, I believe you will stay as far away from that issue as possible even though you where being mentioned there!
PLS ! ,BROCAB, PROVIDE JUST ONE EXAMPLE WHERE YOU HAD ASKED ME TO EXPLAIN " WHO IT IS" AND ALL IVE DONE IS TO WRITE THE SCRIPTURE DOWN!
........................................................

you said this : "But first you need to think about this, "we are Christians" and Christians are not Jehovah witnesses, Christians don't think the same as you, nor do we believe in any of your doctrines."
I asked you :
you dnt believe any of our doctrines? ok , one of the doctrines of jehovahs witnesses doctrine is that followers of Jesus are not supposed to participate in warfare , do you accept this doctrine or you believe that Jesus followers are supposed to participate in warfare, by warfare, I mean war among countries, nationalities, and tribes, e.g the nigerian civil war!
Another teaching is that fornicators, people who deliberately and continuously commit fornication after being found out, are not allowed to be part of
brocab, there are still other isues at hand

1. WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?
bunch of liars!
2. Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!
..............................

And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
......................................

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab
1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
17. 2 cor 1:3
18. Eph 1:3
19. 1 pet 1:3
20: 2Cor 8:6
21. 1 cor 15: 27,28
And a host of others
.............................................

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
................................................

YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!

sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

Shut up and just look into the site.

dolphinheart:
leave you alone ke!, you are talking about others, using lies and defamation and you dnt want to be left alone!?

well ill leave you alone if you attend to this issues, they have been on ground for months!
issues at hand:

I brought up and issue on what he said about Jesus when he was on earth, hope you will agree that God's Spirit helped him make such statement too, but knowing you, I believe you will stay as far away from that issue as possible even though you where being mentioned there!
PLS ! ,BROCAB, PROVIDE JUST ONE EXAMPLE WHERE YOU HAD ASKED ME TO EXPLAIN " WHO IT IS" AND ALL IVE DONE IS TO WRITE THE SCRIPTURE DOWN!
........................................................

you said this : "But first you need to think about this, "we are Christians" and Christians are not Jehovah witnesses, Christians don't think the same as you, nor do we believe in any of your doctrines."
I asked you :
you dnt believe any of our doctrines? ok , one of the doctrines of jehovahs witnesses doctrine is that followers of Jesus are not supposed to participate in warfare , do you accept this doctrine or you believe that Jesus followers are supposed to participate in warfare, by warfare, I mean war among countries, nationalities, and tribes, e.g the nigerian civil war!
Another teaching is that fornicators, people who deliberately and continuously commit fornication after being found out, are not allowed to be part of
brocab, there are still other isues at hand

1. WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?
bunch of liars!
2. Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!
..............................

And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
......................................

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab
1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
17. 2 cor 1:3
18. Eph 1:3
19. 1 pet 1:3
20: 2Cor 8:6
21. 1 cor 15: 27,28
And a host of others
.............................................

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
................................................

YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!

sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

dolphinheart:
it is you that need's to stop lying, stop changing the issues under discussion whenever you are being exposed, stop being blind to scriptures being posted to you.



Ive not only explained rev 1,4, I've explained rev 1:1,4-8, Rev 3:2,12 , and heb 1:9.
This scriptures you had been asked months ago to explain, but you have shown to be INCAPABLE of doing so!, always trying to shift the topic whenever you are asked to do so .
pls since you have read Russell's book, pls post what he wrote, since you have been proven to be liar.

even your friend solite3 have told you that the person who is who was and who is to come is the father , but you say it's a different person entirely , you say it's Jesus . you can only
to prove this by not reading verse 1,5 and 6 of rev chapter 1, you know that if you ever dared to quote it and explain it, you will be exposed with your own words! , hence you refused to quote and EX plain it.

excerpts from a Web page :
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ , which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation? This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God. The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1. Put another way, let’s illustrate by changing names and replacing them with simple modern ones:
· The Revelation of Bob, which Sam gave him…
In this example, Sam gave Bob the revelation; if we use the Jesus is God logic, the sentence would read, “The Revelation of Bob, which Bob gave to himself…” I know it’s an absurd choice of examples, and that’s my point. To say Jesus is “God” based on the context is flat out contradictory. I want to continue examining the verses that precede verse 8 because the context clearly establishes 1:8 is NOT referring to Jesus Christ but rather God the Father, who IS the ONLY Almighty (Pantokrátœr) in the New Testament.

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God AND to the testimony of Jesus Christ , even to all that he saw. (NAS)

The contrast between God Almighty and Jesus the man in Revelation 1:2 is the use of the conjunction, “ AND,” which serves to join two distinctly separate phrases. The word “ AND ” separates the phrase, “the word of God,” from the phrase, “the testimony of Jesus.” The apostle John, bore witness to distinct separate beings; God Almighty and Jesus the man.

Next in verses 4-6 he again makes the distinction between different three separate personages. I have color coded the verse to show clearly the distinctive differences; Blue = God Almighty ; Purple = the seven spirits and Red = Jesus the man,firstborn from among the DEAD (NOTE, God cannot ever be “born” or be “dead”). The dissimilarity between God and Jesus is the them all thru the Book of Revelation, as you will see.

Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come ; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ; AND from Jesus Christ , the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth . To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood , AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)
John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.”

The words, “ and from ,” are used as a conjunction but also to differentiate between three separate parties mentioned; by definition a conjunction not only joins phrases but also divides and separates. This alone PROVES Jesus is not the same as God, and later, in Revelation 1:8, this is verified. The message is TO the seven churches and FROM the following THREE parties:

· From Him who is and who was and who is to come
· AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne
· AND from Jesus Christ the first-born of the dead AND the ruler of the kings of the earth

Notice carefully the word “from” is omitted after the conjunction “AND” the ruler of the kings…” The reason for this is quite simple; the message is not “from” a fourth party, but this is a second role description of Jesus who is the “ruler” of the kings of “earth.”
Notice he is not called the ruler of the kings in “heaven.” Also, FYI the word “ruler” aptly defined means, “magistrate.”
To verify this meaning, look at the definition of a magistrate from Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary, which was written in the same era as most all other Bible reference tools such as Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Old & New Testaments, Englishman’s Hebrew & Greek Concordances and many more. Therefore the 1828 version of Webster’s is more apt to convey the most accurate meaning of magistrate or in Revelation 1:5, “the ruler,” as used by the translators of most modern Bibles.
MAGISTRATE, n. [L. magistratus, from magister, master; magis, major, and ster, Teutonic steora, a director ; steoran , to steer; the principal director.] A public civil officer, invested with the executive government of some branch of it. In this sense, a king is the highest or first magistrate, as is the President of the United States .
But the word is more particularly applied to subordinate officers, as governors, intendants, prefects, mayors, justices of the peace, and the like. The magistrate must have his reverence; the laws their authority. MAGISTRATIC adjective = Having the authority of a magistrate.
Now refer to the actual Greek word used in Revelation 1:5 for “ruler” and you will see it is defined as one vested with authority and therefore subordinate to a higher power; in other words, Jesus is the ruler of the earthly kings but he is a glorified man and therefore subordinate to the Father who alone is God Almighty.
Rev 1:5 - “ruler” = archon NT: 758; present participle of NT: 757; a first ( in rank or power ):KJV - chief (ruler), magistrate , prince, ruler . (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

God the Father, who is also known as Yahweh in the OT, is the One, “who is,” because in Exodus 3:14 He tells Moses His name, saying, “I AM THAT I AM.” This is an incomplete translation of the Hebrew wording, “Ehyeh Asshur Ehyeh.” This Hebrew term is more accurately translated as, “ I exist {present tense} as what I AM, and what I have always existed as {in the past tense}, and what I will continue to exist as {in the future}.” This Hebrew phrase matches the Greek equivalent description in Revelation 1:4 perfectly as, “ Him who is {in the present} and who was {in the past} and who is to come {in the future}.” .
Jesus cannot be God Almighty if he is the firstborn from among the dead! Second, in order of rank and importance, John writes concerning Jesus by calling him, “the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead,” who, “released us from our sins by his blood .” Again as mentioned earlier, God cannot die, nor does He have blood like a man.
In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “ his God .”
Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “ to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “ his God and Father?”
John says that Jesus released us from our sins through his blood , and made us to be “priests” to “ his God .” A “priest” is someone that mediates or reconciles men to God; therefore a priest cannot be God . As we continue our context leading up to Revelation 1:8 in Revelation 1:7 we find that Jesus was pierced in the side & God cannot be pierced! Why? Because God is SPIRIT.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him ; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so.
Amen. (NAS)

Revelation 1:7 refers to Jesus Christ as a man, not as God, because 1:6 says Jesus released us from our sins, “ by his blood ” (an obvious reference to his crucifixion). The kingdom of “God” is NOT flesh and “blood,” which means this passage refers to Jesus as a man. Also, the text deals with Christ’s future “coming” in which “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him .” Jesus is not God because God cannot be pierced, primarily because God is a Spirit being and He does not have a body of flesh and bones that can be punctured by nails or spears. Proof? The following verses help clarify and punctuate this point:
John 4:23-24 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (NAS)
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time . The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and
the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. NAS

If Jesus is God and every eye will see him, doesn’t that contradict John 1:18 that says, “ No one has seen God at any time ?” Obviously God has been a “Spirit,” since the very beginning, as illustrated in Genesis 1:1. Jesus reveals the Father to us, because he is a man in submission to the SPIRIT of God, and therefore we learn of the invisible God’s character or likeness (i.e. – What God is “like” such as His compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.) through the example of the MAN.

Okay, now I will answer your question about Revelation 1:8; you asked me:
Why is Jesus called “the Almighty” in Revelation 1:8?
The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega ,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”
Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have
highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending ,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

The New King James Version makes the following disclosure concerning the words, “ the beginning and the ending,” in its notations for Revelation 1:8 (see below):
Revelation 1:8 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “the Beginning and the End.” (NKJV)

Since the best manuscripts eliminate altogether the words, the beginning and the end,” I will not bother taking time to define them. However, if you are familiar with the Textus Receptus, which is the Greek manuscript used by the KJV translators, you will discover that much of what they relied on for their Greek text originated from Erasmus’ work and we know historically the Roman Catholic church pressured him to insert words and phrases by providing him with eleventh century Latin Mss that had been altered or doctored to validate their theological position concerning the trinity.......


.......ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokratoor, pantokratoros, ho; he who holds sway over all things; the ruler of all; almighty: used of God , 2 Corinthians 6:18 ( From Thayer's Greek Lexicon , Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
ALMIGHTY = NT: 3841 pantokrátœr; gen. pantokrátoros, masc. noun from pás (3956), all, every, and krátos (NT: 2904), power, strength, dominion. Ruler over all, omnipotent, almighty, spoken only of God as in 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7,14; 19:6,15; 21:22. ( From The Complete Word Study Bible and The Complete Word Study Dictionary : New Testament Copyright © 1991, 1992, 1994, 2002 AMG International, Inc.)

Because Revelation 1:4 uses the identical phrase as 1:8, “who is and who was and who is to come,” when referring to God, neither of these applies to the MAN Christ Jesus.
Revelation 1:8 simply embellishes the phrase in Revelation 1:4 by adding further details as to the IDENTITY of Him, “who is and who was and who is to come.”
To demonstrate my point I have taken Revelation 1:4 & Revelation 1:8 and grouped them next to each other (below) and used highlighted words to illustrate similarities.
Compare the two verses and you will see how accurate this conclusion is:

Revelation 1:4 From Him who is and who was and who is to come and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne. NAS
Revelation 1:8 “ I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty .” NAS

Both verses use the phrase, “who is and who was and who is to come,” and this is strong indication they refer to the same individual. Revelation 1:4 mentions ownership of, “His throne,” whereas Revelation 1:8 shows His identity as the, “Lord God,” and also as, “the Almighty.”

.... One area of confusion for many Christians is Revelation 1:11. The problem is that the King James Version ADDS words that are not found in any of the early and best manuscripts. The KJV differs from other translations by blatantly ADDING the phrase at the start of Revelation 1:11, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” We can only speculate why the King James translators decided to use the late date Latin manuscripts that erroneously add this to the text, but even the revised King James version known today as, “The New King James Version,” makes the following notation concerning this phrase in Revelation 1:11:
Revelation 1:11 * The NU-Text and M-Text omit, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,” (NKJV)

............... In fairness to the translators of the KJV perhaps we should assume they were just following the Textus Receptus, which has hundreds if not thousands of problems.
One can only speculate, but it appears the KJV translators wanted to make a clear connection between the phrases “Alpha and Omega” and “the first and the last,” and whatever the individual theological position of the translators on the King James committee, the KJV certainly corroborates the view that Christ was “God.” Trinitarian influences no doubt played some role, since the Church of England espouses Jesus Christ as, ‘God the son’ (i.e. - the second person of the Trinity; a co-equal God person, along with the person of the Father & the Holy Spirit). A ridiculous notion indeed!.......

..........Today, it is the preconceived notion and doctrinal prejudice of Christian theologians that defines, “the Alpha and Omega,” as “God,” in Revelation 1:11 and their stubborn ways to use only the KJV because it adds, ‘the first and the last,’ to the text. There are enough credible manuscripts and study tools available for a person to find the correct answers. Throughout its dark and sordid past, the Roman Catholic Church concealed the scriptures from the masses, but there has always been a few people had the passion, drive and the courage to challenge doctrinal prejudices.
Nowadays, people ARE beginning to ask questions. No longer does everyone accept status quo and the advent of Bible software have made comparing Bible translations much easier...........


zodiakzax also passed a message about Jesus being man, I pointed you to his statement, but you refused to respond to it as predicted. just like in Russell's case , you take the part that you think surpports your case and go blind to the ones that you have issues with . This is the same method you had applied to reading the scriptures , you are quick to quote scriptures that you think will surpport your views, but when scriptures that shows you are wrong are posted to you, instant blindness occurs and you refuse to see it, talk less of quoting and explainING.

YOUR AIM IS JUST TO FIND FAULT BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE WHILE REFUSAL TO OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES!




you can close any case you want using any means you want, but everyone knows you can't quote those scriptures, neither can you Answer those questions.
* for space purpose, I've omitted those issues at hand.

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUTE THE POINTS ABOVE

sincerely dolphins heart you are not making sense. Sorry to say. Thank God you have finally agreed that Jesus is a man even in heaven but that's not the whole story, Jesus is also God Almighty but not the Father even Russell agreed.I advise you to go back and read slowly our previous quote your questions had been answered, please be guided.

brocab:
zodiakzax the main attraction the big mouth of them all is the high an Almighty Dolphinheart had asked to check out C.T. Russell's site below.
Dolphinheart you are more then welcome, now leave me alone you angry bugger.

lol, dolphinheart is a noisy gong... He clearly doesn't know the difference between Christ's ministry as a Man and God. And we have tried to explain it but it seems he thinks he knows best. He asks foolish qtns, and desire that we answer them. And bcs He can't comprehend the doctrine, he lacks the capability to understand this simple truth. The Holy Spirit came over Mary and Mary became pregnant with Jesus. Jesus was both God and man but did not seem it fitting. To be equal with God so He took upon Himself the nature of a man so He can humbly serve God the Father. John 17, Jesus In vs 5 asks the Father to restore His glory same Glory the Father has (which He shares with no one) because He has completed the work He came to do. Jesus is in heaven as both God and Man.and that is why as man He calls God His God. Maybe this is too hard for dolphinheart to understand since he blv's Jesus is angel Michael. He still hasn't answer the qtn we've been asking him, if they say Jesus is "a god" what kind of God is He? Better to dny Jesys completely than to liken Him to a mere angel, at least Russell knew that. May God forgive them all.

Everyone can see dolphinheart is gunning me down, firing his first bullet' with a miss-I am sure I have upset him in a great and Almighty way, his pages are becoming longer every time I look down on them.
How funny is this, I myself had really got dolphinheart worked up, if he was to fight his own war, I am sure I would be at his top of the charts hit list..
The rubbish he comes up with, the lies he tells in public view, shows he doesn't read any of the scripts we have posted to him that's written in the bible. Dolphinheart is in his own little world, that nothing else matters, not even if the truth stood right in front of him. Which it does.
The anger he writes the more lies pours out from His mouth against Christ, and of course he is against the King James bible in one way and uses it in the other.

solite3:
sincerely dolphins heart you are not making sense. Sorry to say. Thank God you have finally agreed that Jesus is a man even in heaven but that's not the whole story, Jesus is also God Almighty but not the Father even Russell agreed.I advise you to go back and read slowly our previous quote your questions had been answered, please be guided.

I can picture who dolphinheart is, he has either been the only child, who I believe has no respect for others, nor his own, he either plays his cards right around his home "or" he is so much of a fool that no-one even cares what he say's or what he does.
I believe dolphinheart is at a age, he refuses to leave his comfort zone of bad habits, living his life style of demands, a power freak, who uses verbal abuse by standing over his victims, feeling his inner being is now in control.
With all the reply's I had received back from king dick himself, I believe he classes himself as someone above every other name, he feels he knows his truth is right, and nothing else matters.
As lonely as he is, he allows his demanding nature to control his world-I believe he feels he can only cope by responding that same way' his parents responded to the watchtower.
Dolphinhearts world is in his room, and his friends are his computer, he is either a selfish "noisy gong who is continually on a masturbating spree" or he believes no-one else matters because he is on a mission to destroy brocab in the makings.
Do you like my story that didn't make any sense?

zodiakzax:
lol, dolphinheart is a noisy gong... He clearly doesn't know the difference between Christ's ministry as a Man and God. And we have tried to explain it but it seems he thinks he knows best. He asks foolish qtns, and desire that we answer them. And bcs He can't comprehend the doctrine, he lacks the capability to understand this simple truth. The Holy Spirit came over Mary and Mary became pregnant with Jesus. Jesus was both God and man but did not seem it fitting. To be equal with God so He took upon Himself the nature of a man so He can humbly serve God the Father. John 17, Jesus In vs 5 asks the Father to restore His glory same Glory the Father has (which He shares with no one) because He has completed the work He came to do. Jesus is in heaven as both God and Man.and that is why as man He calls God His God. Maybe this is too hard for dolphinheart to understand since he blv's Jesus is angel Michael. He still hasn't answer the qtn we've been asking him, if they say Jesus is "a god" what kind of God is He? Better to dny Jesys completely than to liken Him to a mere angel, at least Russell knew that. May God forgive them all.

Efrankbblog:
Jehovah's Witnesses had its origins in the Bible Student movement. It founder was Charles Taze Russell in the 1870s. financing of our publications come from voluntary donations. Any more questions?

was going through the previous posts and came upon this. Am sure she Was the one Who started the thread by the way. Very interesting I should say She says Charles Russell was the founder of the JW's. Now the others say Jesus was their founder and not Charles Russell. All bcs we have shown them the secret they've been hiding for many years. I thought someone Once said they are united in their doctrine. Clearly this is not unity. This only shows you deceive urselves.


https://www.nairaland.com/2720878/jehovahs-witnesses-17-facts-people

iamrealdeji:
I'm a muslim but I love Jehovah Witnesses so much,they come to my house every sunday and we talk about life,afterlife etc,my mum is an Alhaja and she does too,she entertains Jehovah witness folks and even offers them food cos you just gotta like this people cos of the way they interact with everybody, they're very intelligent,hardworking and educated folks and they don't discriminate,they don't hate,they're just trying to change the world positively. To me,they're the best christians in the world. Also,i have learned a lot from those that come to my house

very interesting!! Muslims love you? Wow!! This is really sad! Un believers love You? Muslims persecute Christians bcs we Preach Christ and the power of Christ work in them to change them and Their pple so they hate the true Christians indeed. So for a Muslim to love you Only means one thing, the kingdom of satan is not divided among it self otherwise It will fall, Muslims love you bcs you are of the same Father, the devil. Very interesting. Look at the post likes and shares!

dolphinheart:
Arch angel, no arch angels.


They believe jesus is a god, but like he told mary, they believe he has a god that is superior to him, which is God almighty, the father!.

You can't be with someone and still be that same person.


God has no beggining, all other things where created through jesus, he was Gods master worker . Prov 8 : 22- 31.
Jesus has always remained subjected to the father, the almighty God, in heaven or on earth, and it was not a position he wished to grabe but has always remained loyal, despite being in the same nature with God.

Dolphinheart, did you say Jesus has the same nature as God? Wow, so if He has the same nature is He not God? You again said. All things were created through Jesus, so why would the God say " I by my own Hands laid the foundation of the Earth"? God did not say " I by my Son or my Word laid the foundation of the Earth" but by His own hand, this shld tell you Jesus is God. What I can't understand Is, why have u changed your words? You are disgusting...

jesussaves22:
Jehova witness are anti christ quote me any where.... They are evil. The love the things of the world very much. They dont believe in heaven. They are founded by rusell who is a member of freemansry. Google on rusell doctrine and post rusell doctrine. Read the interview of Rusell wife after rusell was buried. Read of the symbol in rusell grave and check the symbol use by church of satan. And the symbol in awake.... Do you know why michael jackson left jehova witness?

interesting...

alexis:
You are dishonest - the Septuagint Translation there was MADE, not CREATE. The verse is interpreted as The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.. It is talking about the eternity of wisdom and not the origination or bringing into existence of wisdom. This is some of the dishonesty you guys throw around that is really shallow and most times you catch the un-informed with it.

Hahahaha, when something is Made is it not created ?

Ignorance of the highest order , the translator use Made whereas the greek word ekitse means create . grow up lol

johnw74:
Pro_14:8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.



Christians know that the Holy Spirit is God
Christians know that God and the word is God

false jw will never know.

Only a deceiver will say the Word ( Jesus christ ) is Gods spirit. False teacher

HOPE YOU ALL NOW SEE THAT ONCE AGAIN , HE HAS REFUSED TO ADDRESS, COUNTER OR SHOW CONTRARY VIEWS TO THE POINTS LAID DOWN IN MY POST HE QUOTED, HE HAS REFUSED TO EXPLAIN HIS OWN VIEWS ON THE SCRIPTURES QUOTED, HE IS TRYING TO SIDESTEP THEM BY CHANGE THE ISSUE UNDER DISCUSSION

brocab:
Just show me in scripture where it say's the Father sat on His throne? And I can show you in scripture that the one who sat on his throne was Jesus.

are you saying you want to show me that Jesus sat on his father's throne?

I do not need to fully follow you in your new attempt to change the topic, i will only need to show you that Jesus is not the one sitting on the throne, the same throne the most high is seated.
PLS NOTE AGAIN IF HE WILL RESPOND TO THIS SCRIPTURES

[b] REV 5:1-13 (ESV)

1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”
3 And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it,
4 and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.
5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
7 And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation,
10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on the earth.”
11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might
and honor and glory and blessing!”
13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying,
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”[/b]

NOW LETS SEE IF BROCAB WILL NOW EXPLAIN HOW THE LAMB WHO WAS SLAIN IS THE ONE WHO IS SEATED ON THE THRONE!

readers should note, before you come up with any unbiblical story or before you say Jesus is not the Lamb, pls read this scripture below

[b]Joh 1:29[u]The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God[/u] who takes away the sin of the world!

1Pe 1:19But it was with precious blood, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb, that of Christ.

Re 22:16“‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’”

Ac 7:55But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand,
Ac 7:56and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.”

Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Mt 26:64Jesus said to him: “You yourself said it. But I say to you: From now on you will see [/u]the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power[/u] and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Da 7:13“I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.

Ro 8:34Who will condemn them? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, more than that the one who was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who also pleads for us.[/b]

READERS NOTE IF HE WILL QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THOSE SCRIPTURES

And if Jesus was never referred to as the Almighty, then theirs a problem with your teachings inside your organisation, Russell himself had written in his manuscripts the Finished Mystery-Jesus approved, Russell does not agree with you, He said {Revelation 1:4-8} these scriptures are talking about Jesus. Like I myself have been saying this all along, so is Russell wrong?

it was a problem that was solved!
you need to quote that and provide source.

meanwhile , issues at hand:
* this will be added in subsequent posts

johnw74:
Lie Lie jozzy



Following captivator is like the blind leading the blind.


The Holy Spirit is not two
the Holy Spirit is God
God is one
God, is God and the Word
God and the Word is the Holy Spirit

The rest of what you say is just more of the same old confusion and repeated lies.

You don't and cannot understand, even a thing that is so simple for Christians,
the Spirit is needed, who you don't know.

Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

The holyspirit was personified in those scriptures man.

@ Numbers 11:17,, the holyspirit is identified as " IT " so get sense.

zodiakzax:
you Are quick to quote greek to prove your point. So why don't you quote greek when it comes to John 1:1? Nonetheless your point is still invalid bcs Pov 8 isn't talking about Christ. We have explained to you the meaning of that word there but u decide to hold on to the one that makes you happy. I believe we shld all start using the greek mss to make our point here esp from the New Testament, we can use your Kingdom Interlinear greek bible, at least. Please am waiting for your John 1:1 in greek and the word for word translation of it. Thank you

I dont have any problem with John 1:1 , Jesus is called A God .. , even humans are called Gods, same greek word . so wats ur problem ? Unlike you I agree with the scriptures that Jesus is subjected to His God, ( 1 cor 15:28) .


Now that uv seen clearly that Create is used at proverb 8:22 ( supported by LXX ) , and you mean the verse is talking about a literal wisdom , DOES THAT NOT MEAN THERE WAS A TIME YAHWEH LACK WISDOM ?

brocab:
Shut up and just look into the site.

And leave issues that has been hanging for months ! sir, I dnt do things haphazardly.
pls attend to issues at hand:

I brought up and issue on what he said about Jesus when he was on earth, hope you will agree that God's Spirit helped him make such statement too, but knowing you, I believe you will stay as far away from that issue as possible even though you where being mentioned there!

PLS ! ,BROCAB, PROVIDE JUST ONE EXAMPLE WHERE YOU HAD ASKED ME TO EXPLAIN " WHO IT IS" AND ALL IVE DONE IS TO WRITE THE SCRIPTURE DOWN!
........................................................

you said this : "But first you need to think about this, "we are Christians" and Christians are not Jehovah witnesses, Christians don't think the same as you, nor do we believe in any of your doctrines."
I asked you :
you dnt believe any of our doctrines? ok , one of the doctrines of jehovahs witnesses doctrine is that followers of Jesus are not supposed to participate in warfare , do you accept this doctrine or you believe that Jesus followers are supposed to participate in warfare, by warfare, I mean war among countries, nationalities, and tribes, e.g the nigerian civil war!
Another teaching is that fornicators, people who deliberately and continuously commit fornication after being found out, are not allowed to be part of
brocab, there are still other isues at hand

1. WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?
bunch of liars!
2. Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!
..............................

And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
......................................

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab
1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
17. 2 cor 1:3
18. Eph 1:3
19. 1 pet 1:3
20: 2Cor 8:6
21. 1 cor 15: 27,28
And a host of others
.............................................

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
................................................

YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!

sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

alexis:
Yes. I base my answer on Matthew 28:18

And Jesus came and said to them, “All AUTHORITY in HEAVEN and on EARTH has been given to me. He said this after his resurrection

So how does this mean he knew the hour of the end ? He said authority not that he knew the time of the end , so just admit he doesnt know


Besides, how can the Almighty God be given authority ?

alexis:
Scared of who? You! . I answered this question. When Jesus made the statement, he didn't know the day and time. I went ahead and addressed it here for you https://www.nairaland.com/2720878/jehovahs-witnesses-17-facts-people/81#46284881

U are saying shit

solite3:
sincerely dolphins heart you are not making sense.

HOPE YOU CAN ALL SEE THAT HE TOO CAN NOT SAY ANY THING AGAINST THE POINTS I THAT POST. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES FOUND THEIR

Sorry to say. Thank God you have finally agreed that Jesus is a man even in heaven but that's not the whole story,

will you stop lying against me!

Jesus is also God Almighty but not the Father even Russell agreed.I advise you to go back and read slowly our previous quote your questions had been answered, please be guided.

Solite , stop lying you, solite3 , have not answered the questions : meanwhile:
your questions are still pendin sir

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?

2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".

All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls can you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b][/quote]

Jozzy4:
I dont have any problem with John 1:1 , Jesus is called A God .. , even humans are called Gods, same greek word . so wats ur problem ? Unlike you I agree with the scriptures that Jesus is subjected to His God, ( 1 cor 15:28) .


Now that uv seen clearly that Create is used at proverb 8:22 ( supported by LXX ) , and you mean the verse is talking about a literal wisdom , DOES THAT NOT MEAN THERE WAS A TIME YAHWEH LACK WISDOM ?

You said it should be " A God"? So why Then did your people use "a god"? Small g, Do you now doubt your bible? Also note that "in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. This is Almighty God we are talking about here and the scripture there is referring to God Almighty. You pple are confused. Did The greek greek say "A God"? Or God, please reference me any greek mss you have. Since u like using greek. Plus You still lack understanding on the Prov 8 and the link we shared.

alexis:
I wasn't drawing a conclusion - I was presenting text that stated Jesus knew all things. You presented text that stated He didn't know all things. I did get my response from online; it's called research so go easy on the arrogance. However, I made it clear that:

It wasn't until after Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience was attributed to Jesus. I was answering the person who asked, if Jesus knew everything and I presented one evidence as stated in the Bible.

The difference between our doctrines or statements is what I have stated and answered earlier. In Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 = It is stated clearly that only the Father in heaven knows. These words were spoken when Jesus was a man, as a man, He restricted himself of some of His define attributes as mentioned in Philippians 2:6–8.

After his resurrection, He took on His full deity including divine knowledge. You can confirm that when he said Matthew 28:18 = And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. He even went further in Acts 1:7. He repeats the truth that the disciples would not be told the time of His appearing, but He did not exclude His own knowledge.

That is my doctrine which is biblical

Your doctrine is shit ... Only the Father knows ( Scripture )

Jozzy4:
Hahahaha, when something is Made is it not created ?

Ignorance of the highest order , the translator use Made whereas the greek word ekitse means create . grow up lol

Alxis is right

zodiakzax:
You accept it should be "God"? Wonderful. So why Then did your people use "a god"? Do you now doubt your bible? Also note that "in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. This is Almighty God we are talking about here and the scripture there is referring to God Almighty. If you agree it Should be God then am sorry you don't have a point anymore. You pple are confused. Did. The greek greek say "A God"? Or God, please reference me any greek mss you have. Since u like using greek.

The greek lacks the definite article " the" in reference to the Word.

Smh

Plus You still lack understanding on the Prov 8 and the link we shared.

Oga u who has understanding, answer his question ?

solite3:
I think Alexis is speaking to the Jws, he is right the word made or possess is not used the way Jws think it is.

MADE means what ? Cos sometimes i wonder how u guys think

alexis:
I have addressed this already. The manuscript never used the word CREATE Bros. You simpletons are brained washed with JW doctribe

The greek ekitse means what ?

[quote author=dolphinheart post=46303853]

HOPE YOU CAN ALL SEE THAT HE TOO CAN NOT SAY ANY THING AGAINST THE POINTS I THAT POST. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES FOUND THEIR

those were not points

will you stop lying against me!

sorry for thinking you believe what you posted

Solite , stop lying you, solite3 , have not answered the questions : meanwhile:
your questions are still pendin sir

I promise you that I will never believe anything you post again.