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The Satanic Chatbox. Everybody Is Welcome / Christian's Chatbox Game/Party Night - May 4th@ 10pm Gmt -ALL CHRISTIANS INVITED / The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) (2) (3) (4)
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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 8:52am On Jun 08, 2016 |
Reyginus: you don't get it. you claim to have a question based on the earlier definition of religion. ..but you only pick one part and throw the other part away making your question not at all based on the definition but from your own head what made you not ask; is ATR a set of dogmas? but I'll answer just to see where you're going with this; of course What you call ATR relates with the divine Just like the Greek society had everything relating to the Divine, only certain cult members practiced religion and not the entire society 2 Likes |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 8:58am On Jun 08, 2016 |
macof:Very good. We'd get there. Does ATR deal with beliefs? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 10:40am On Jun 08, 2016 |
Reyginus: Yes because ATR is everything african which includes the beliefs of the African people. And how does dealing with beliefs make anything a religion? do you really want to say now that everything that holds a "belief" is a religion? 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 11:01am On Jun 08, 2016 |
macof:Don't rush it. Is a belief a dogma or not? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 12:55pm On Jun 08, 2016 |
Reyginus: no it is not. .but a dogma is a belief |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 5:00pm On Jun 08, 2016 |
macof:Wow! So how come your definition agrees with your explanations of the contents but you still imply it is not religion? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 9:01pm On Jun 08, 2016 |
macof:Hmmm so you're really serious with this thing. Lol very very funny. I don't think you know what religion means because if you do you wouldn't have this mindset. How can you say that Africans that worship and venerate idols are not religious?? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 8:39am On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja:it's probably only funny because you don't know a thing about the topic you are trying to discuss Africans don't worship and venerate idols. .. look at the nonsense you just said and you think you know so much about African societies. it is best to learn before you form an opinion 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 8:44am On Jun 09, 2016 |
Reyginus: in what way does my definition agree with it? pls go back and understand every word in my posts |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 9:34am On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:Hehehe Wow I don't know this will reach this stage, but let's continue chaa. Now let's be clear on some things.. I believe we know what the term Idol means... -What do Africans do exactly with idols? -Do they have idols at all? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 9:49am On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: idols are representative objects used for veneration and adornment an Idol of Sango( Ere Sango) is not worshipped or venerated but used in veneration as a representative Image of the Orisa. it is the Orisa that is venerated not the Ere |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 10:00am On Jun 09, 2016 |
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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 10:09am On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:Am So confused, If that thing carved or molded is a representative image of Orisa, and that carved thing is neither venerated nor worshipped but used in veneration of that same carved thing (which represents Orisa).. I don't quite follow. In one scene you're saying its neither worshipped nor venerated In another scene, you're saying the same thing is used to venerate itself |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 10:16am On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: Let's move away from isese and talk about catholicism then in catholic homes and churches there are images of Mary, Jesus, angels and saints. .. are these images being worshipped when prayers are done in front of them? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 10:32am On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:Okay Catholics deceive themselves by saying that those idols are not worshipped but used for intercession. They are just using it as an excuse to justify what they are doing-- (was once one of them and can prove anytime any day that they don't worship it..lol ) Imagine some one praying in front of the idol mary today and tomorrow claims that the idol wept and cured him/her...And someone at the back will be saying it isn't worship..that's ridiculous at best Maybe you can peep into any dictionary you have or Wikipedia and tell me what they say about worship. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 11:49am On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: ok |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 12:01pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:People sef |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:04pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
Reyginus: Yanga sleep trouble con wake am. Na palava you dey find shey? I have shown beyond reasonable doubt the difference between religion and spirituality. You can simply read up those post to further undestand this differences. This will help you deep confusion on the subject. The question you are asking macof is irrelevant. He has stated bodly that religion is an "institution". While ATR is related to divinity, it is not an institution where obligation, doctrine, codes and ethic are instilled on those who belong in the circle. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:13pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: An image used to represent an entity attracts the same worth as what it is representing. Just like a national flag is known as a national identity or representation, it is a mere piece of clothing and painting put carries the same respect, worth and value by those who are patriots to a nationality. A soldier or public servant will salute a national flag. Same way an Aborisha will bow before his artifact. However, that soldier is not serving the flag but what the flag represent. This is the same way Aborisha is not serving artifact but what the artifact represent which are Gods. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:24pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: Making or carving an image of divines is not a sin as the bible even instructed Isrealites of old to carve two golden statues of cherubim. It ws same God who asked moses to put a carve image of snake which people will look up to. Isnt that idolatry? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by macof(m): 6:20pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: you just have your mind set on having your own perception. you are free, not like I can force you out of your ignorance |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 7:33pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:I like how you construed this..much better and I know the angle you're going. Now let's check this. If something is of equal worth with what it represents, it means that the thing is exactly the same thing with the thing it is representing (figuratively speaking) --Lol hope am not singing. Just like a world cup is worth a particular amount of money (no more, no less) A Nigerian flag representing Nigerian. An Aborisha idol worthing the same thing it represents. The ash of someone's father representing the same man and if it's destroyed, to the person, it will be like killing that his father all over again. No world cup, then there won't be any money for it. No mace (which represents authority) in the national assembly, then it's party things. No Aborisha idol, then whatever it represents is terminated immediately. All these things can be revered and worshipped vice versa as far as they are of exactly the same worth. Serving is another thing altogether that is also a choice, and doesn't go with respect/revere/worship. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 8:13pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE: Wow are you a Catholic? Those scenarios among other verses never fail me since time immemorial whenever am in support of the idols they worship. Now let's see: Well I believe that you are conceptualising sin based on some religious laws, though I didn't talk of sin but I can answer you out rightly that it's not a sin because it was an instruction given to them by their moral giver. Same with that of moses. The snake in a sense is representing/equals healing. Look at snake and be healed. Don't look, then you won't be healed. Believe that it's god that heals and don't look--then Satan will have mercy on your soul (Means you won't be healed as well). Are catholics idolaters...YES. What ever idol they mould represents what it's meant for, Not sango or another thing, for they don't mould idols representing sango. And those idols are revered and worshipped and not meant for decoration (You can see them genuflecting, bowing down to among other things in front of those idols). I still fail to see how those scenarios extricate idols from worship in terms of African spirituality as you would like to term it. And Since you used the action of the biblical god, can you tell me why he becomes angry if the Isrealites begin to worship other idols? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 8:23pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:Very funny guy Poor defence for a claim anyway. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:23pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: How do you define worship? Worship simply is acknowledging the worth of something or someone. The bible says give to Ceasar what belong to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. The bible encourage respect for the authority of the land. If you are giving to Ceasar, you are acknowledging the worth of Ceasar and as well worshipping it. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by dblackninja: 8:42pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:No no no not just acknowledgement, you can use the terms reverence and adoration to explain it. Worship is much deeper than acknowledgement for the later is simply admitting that this this this is or has this this this. Now do Africans worship idols? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 8:44pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
macof:What's this? In what way? Your definition says Religion is a set of dogmas relating to the divine. Belief is a dogma and you accept your faith relates with the divine. What else can it be? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 8:47pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:No. Institution? Where please? You are redefining it for him? Someone says Religion is a set of dogmas relating to the divine and he accepts that his faith fits into these two but it's not Religion. Is this logic only within ATR members? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:56pm On Jun 09, 2016 |
dblackninja: Adoration simply me deep love, strong admiration, respect and devotion to/for something and someone. Reverence is deep respect. How do you show love and respect one without acknowledging the worth of that person? The act of showing love to something is equivalent to acknowledging the worth. When you adore, respect and show much love to someone, you are worshipping it. Note, I didnt say simply acknowledgment but acknowledgment of worth of something. And Yes, Africans worship Idols. Just like Christians worship God through Jesus |
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