₦airaland Forum

frank317:
Lol... Mr dejideji is talking himself into confusion.

You called the brain just a meat and then u say this...


So you think the brain (meat) might actually have a thing to do with consciousness yet you are certain consciousness persists outside the brain.

Pls help me out... do you u actually think there is a relationship between the brain and consciousness?

Why do u think consciousness can exist outside the brain, yet think the brain has a role in consciousness?

Deji cannot help but argue with himself because like anything shallow/thin, a little scratch on the surface will always reveal a different surface, one usually inconsistent with the overlying mask. Beneath the facade of intelligence he wishes to project by quoting great people, his grasp of the concepts he proposes is bereft of any kind of depth whatsoever.

Dejideji1:
Bro this your reply is extremely ridiculous i can't believe you just spew this trash. I don't think you know what consciousness means. are the players in your FIFA conscious?

Why make your comparison with an inanimate thing? How are they related? Well I can see you play too much of FIFA and it has severely affected your ability to reason properly.

You are the one that actually needs to go for a neurobiology course because it's obvious you don't know what you are saying. The last time i checked, scientists have not been able to properly establish how the brain can generate consciousness.

neuroscientists have not adequately
explained how the behavior of neurons can give rise to subjectively felt mental states.

It seems ridiculous even to consider why a handful of wires and transistors fails to generate subjective perceptions, then ask the same question about neurons outside the brain.

Listen to AgentOfAllah. he has a grasp on the whole comparison.

Lilbrown007:
Since Animals Are Self aware (consciousness) Which Theist Know It As Soul Now Answer Me This When This Animal Die Were Do Their "Soul" Go??

Bro you can't compare consciousness in human with that of animals. Like I said, consciousness is a personal thing and that raises the question "are animals also conscious? " that may sound ridiculous to you but believe me that question is still being debated.

It's just like asking If bacterial,/virus or other micro organisms are conscious just because they also respond to external stimuli. And i think i was taught in Biology that a certain plant also respond to external stimuli. So does it make it conscious?

As we all know, animals are driven by instinct. And for your other question, as far as religion is concerned animals don't have a soul. (at least I'm sure about this in Christianity because there is no teaching on animal "soul" going anywhere).

I don't think you can argue on the issue of soul since Atheists/scientists don't believe it. It's a spiritual/religious concept.

frank317:
Lol... Mr dejideji is talking himself into confusion.

You called the brain just a meat and then u say this...


So you think the brain (meat) might actually have a thing to do with consciousness yet you are certain consciousness persists outside the brain.

Pls help me out... do you u actually think there is a relationship between the brain and consciousness?

Why do u think consciousness can exist outside the brain, yet think the brain has a role in consciousness?

Bro i can understand it sounds confusing but I'm trying very hard not to introduce the soul/spirit concept i have said i want to argue purely on science

The NDE accounts is one of the case used to argue consciousness persisting outside the body i believe you read the case of that lady that was brain dead and could still give vivid accounts of the operation process after resuscitation. You guys are making me to repeat this, i posted the link to the full article

In religious terms we will actually say that was her soul temporarily suspended from her body

AgentOfAllah:
Deji cannot help but argue with himself because like anything shallow/thin, a little scratch on the surface will always reveal a different surface, one usually inconsistent with the overlying mask. Beneath the facade of intelligence he wishes to project by quoting great people, his grasp of the concepts he proposes is bereft of any kind of depth whatsoever.

Oga this your moniker sef, are you sure you are really an Atheist? And why all this insult? That is what you have been doing since you joined this thread. No meaningful contribution.

What do you mean by being shallow? You don't understand my concept. All this things I'm trying to explain (detaching consciousness from the brain) are beyond the natural/material world view that you Atheists hold onto and I have been trying hard to avoid the spiritual aspect so as to make it logical (as anything spiritual is difficult to comprehend for you guys)

For the case of consciousness existing outside the body read the reply i gave @frank317.

Pls read the replies i gave @lilbrown, Frank, and Agent..........

donnffd:
Jeez, i taught i defined the kind of consciousness i was describing!!!...you want to tell me that memories is not part of being self-aware?

What is your Name? Deji!, ddnt you remember that your name was Deji? abi it was divinely put inside?

Oga you funny oo. How many times will i answer this question?
What has knowing my name got to do with me knowing that I'm alive?
Even if your memory is completely wiped off won't you still be able to tell if you are alive or not?

It seems you don't get the concept of "reality" Oga memory and consciousness are two different things. I won't say this again.

donnffd:
waiting...

Now to the story even though it's no longer necessary if you read my reply @frank317 and Co.

One of my relative told me this............... she was a typist(back in the days before computer became popular) and there was one man in her office then who was also a typist. They were relatively close and he used to visit her to make use of her typewriter at home.

Then suddenly the man died. She said some days after his death, @midnight she used to hear the sound of the typewriter as though someone was operating it and it was very violent. She was too terrified to come out of the room and verify (who wants to see a ghost)

She said it continued for almost a week before it stopped after seeking for spiritual help. Now i know you will quickly say maybe she was hallucinating but her husband was also there with her and he corroborated what she said. So can two people be hallucinating at the same time?

There are many many stories like this that people just ignore because they lack proof but the person that experienced it knows.


Please explain this to me if it's not paranormal, what scientific explanation can you give?

AgentOfAllah:
Dejideji1,

You have quoted a lot of physicists and philosophers in your posts. I haven't verified the authenticity of your quotes, but I will assume you have done your due diligence, and aren't falsely quoting, or quoting out of context. These people are obviously very brilliant, as evinced in many of their works; and one could only aspire for the level of insights they all had in their days. That said, I do not wish to spend that much time on their philosophical musings and conclusions because the most brilliant figures of history have been known to make catastrophic mistakes on specific subjects that were outside their areas of expertise...even within the same broad field. No doubt, they have their reasons for arriving at their respective conclusions, but do you have reasons for arriving at yours?

I would like to give you more respect than to assume you believe the things you do because some brilliant persons said so. So, prove that you are worth the words you bellow from the pages of great philosophers by engaging us with your own philosophical thoughts on the subject, rather than just regurgitating things that have been said in the past.

Since I intend this to be a discourse about the things we know, I will start with my thoughts on the position of atheists, in order to highlight how severely you misunderstand atheism; and to do this, what better place to start my discourse than the very theory of knowledge itself? I will eventually arrive at my point, but you have to bear with me and read to the end.

A while ago, during one of my more productive introspections, I conceptualised an idea which I like to call the quadrant of knowledge. The goal of my musing then was to reduce the unitary universe of knowledge into definable categories, and that I did by dividing it into four parts as follows: Known-knowns, unknown-knowns, known-unknowns and unknown-unknowns. This categorisation of knowledge will prove useful in my defense of atheism.

1) Known-Knowns: These are basically the things that we have knowledge of; and that we are aware of of that knowledge. E.g. I have knowledge of what happens when I add two numbers together. I also know that I have that knowledge. The nature of this category of knowledge is such that it is the type of knowledge we actively go out of our ways to seek, and I consider it the smallest part of the knowledge quadrant.

2) Unknown-knowns: This category is for things we know, but are unaware of the existence of such knowledge. I consider many of our instinctive behaviours to be part of this category. Unknown-knowns are ephemeral by their very nature because they quickly transition to known-knowns after they are brought to light. By definition, it is impossible to give a live example of unknown-knowns, but consider this: Every creative work came from nowhere but the minds of their creators, so the very first time a creative work is conceived, that work has just made its transition from unknown-known to known-known.

3) Known-unknowns: This is as straight forward as it sounds. They are things you know you do not know. E.g. I use prescription medicines when I fall ill, and I know they work, I just don't know how they do. Although, this knowledge is well documented and I can know it with time and patience. Another example of this is radioactive decay. I know that it occurs in the unstable nuclei of certain isotopes of certain atoms, but I don't know why given the same isotopes, the individual atoms decay at different times. This one hasn't been answered by science, and I guarantee you a Nobel prize if you can find an answer to it. These are things I don't know; but for which I have awareness.

4) Unknown-unknowns: This category is a monstrosity. It consists of things you don't even know that you don't know. Such things exist completely outside of your awareness, either due to imperceptibility or limited experience. This category has the distinct feature of being infinitely sized because by definition, you have absolutely no awareness about you lack of knowledge, so that even if you claim to know everything, there would exist an inherent paradox in you knowing something which you are unaware of not knowing.

It is the category of the unknown-unknowns in which the very ontology of god falls. God belongs in this category, and not any other because it is a nebulous concept, which is either plagued with many definitions that are neither logical nor self-consistent, or is so vague as to be meaningless. Either way, it is something that we absolutely don't know what it is ohr how it works. I atheism

hmmm... 'unknown-unknowns'. So how did you 'know' that God falls into the unknown-unknowns category?

Dejideji1:
Bro you can't compare consciousness in human with that of animals. Like I said, consciousness is a personal thing and that raises the question "are animals also conscious? " that may sound ridiculous to you but believe me that question is still being debated.

It's just like asking If bacterial,/virus or other micro organisms are conscious just because they also respond to external stimuli. And i think i was taught in Biology that a certain plant also respond to external stimuli. So does it make it conscious?

As we all know, animals are driven by instinct. And for your other question, as far as religion is concerned animals don't have a soul. (at least I'm sure about this in Christianity because there is no teaching on animal "soul" going anywhere).

I don't think you can argue on the issue of soul since Atheists/scientists don't believe it. It's a spiritual/religious concept.

So Consciousness Get Levels

Dejideji1:
Bro i can understand it sounds confusing but I'm trying very hard not to introduce the soul/spirit concept i have said i want to argue purely on science

The NDE accounts is one of the case used to argue consciousness persisting outside the body i believe you read the case of that lady that was brain dead and could still give vivid accounts of the operation process after resuscitation. You guys are making me to repeat this, i posted the link to the full article

In religious terms we will actually say that was her soul temporarily suspended from her body

Oga... pls respond to my post... this you response has nothing to do with the question I asked u. This is a reminder below...
And for your NDE woman, it explains nothing... it just raised a lot of unanswered questions, your conclusion on it is not a certainty , so let's stick on what we can relate with.

frank317:
Lol... Mr dejideji is talking himself into confusion.
You called the brain just a meat and then u say this...
So you think the brain (meat) might actually have a thing to do with consciousness yet you are certain consciousness persists outside the brain.
Pls help me out... do you u actually think there is a relationship between the brain and consciousness?
Why do u think consciousness can exist outside the brain, yet think the brain has a role in consciousness?

Dejideji1:
Oga this your moniker sef, are you sure you are really an Atheist?

Are you really Deji?

And why all this insult?

No insult, just fact.

That is what you have been doing since you joined this thread. No meaningful contribution.

Lol...Keep telling yourself that.

What do you mean by being shallow? You don't understand my concept.

No, YOU don't understand 'your' concepts.

All this things I'm trying to explain (detaching consciousness from the brain) are beyond the natural/material world view that you Atheists hold onto and I have been trying hard to avoid the spiritual aspect so as to make it logical (as anything spiritual is difficult to comprehend for you guys)

Aye, you HAVE been trying hard, no doubt. What happens when one tries hard to make logical, what is illogical?

For the case of consciousness existing outside the body read the reply i gave @frank317.

I asked a simple question. Does consciousness exist outside of the body? The answer is either "Yes", "No" or "I don't know". I don't need to read your replies to XYZ for that. If I have any specific followups, I'll ask!

Dejideji1:
It seems you don't get the concept of "reality" Oga memory and consciousness are two different things. I won't say this again.

I think I understand the issue here, its either you dont read posts, dont understand it or you jump to hasty conclusions.

I noticed the kind of consciousness you were talking about and decided to differentiate it and talk about the higher form, the one we would all agree is complex, but i see you keep talking about the elementary one so let me dumb it down for you.

A dog knows its alive, a cow knows its alive, a monkey, a fly, birds, frogs e.t.c all know they are alive...so you would agree they have some form of consciousness...so from your logic, i assume that there consciousness would survive their death too, correct?

She was too terrified to come out of the room and verify (who wants to see a ghost)

You see, thats the issue right there, she already concluded without even evaluating the possibilities...

Whatever i say, you would just counter it, so i wud just reserve my comment.

But this story is similar to a student who fails an exam, and then concludes that witches from his village is behind it...
Then you would now ask, how can i say witches is not real?

When witches has not be proven beyond reasonable doubt to be the cause of the failure...

timonski:
hmmm... 'unknown-unknowns'. So how did you 'know' that God falls into the unknown-unknowns category?

That's a very good question, and I can see its point.

Actually, if I were to take any one definition of god(s), it would probably fall into the known-unknown category. However, some particularly illogical definitions, for example, the triune god, the omnipotent god, Zeus of mount Olympus etc, would feature in the known-known category, in the sense that I know they are a logical impossibility; thus, they most definitely don't exist! However, I very carefully used the word "ontology" because there is no consensus on the infinite possible definitions of god.

The way I see it, the word "god", itself, is just a placeholder for an infinite number of unknowns, and I don't know what these unknowns are. As such, I 'know' "god" is in the unknown-unknowns category much in the same way that I 'know' a category called unknown-unknowns exists.

donnffd:
A dog knows its alive, a cow knows its alive, a monkey, a fly, birds, frogs e.t.c all know they are alive...so you would agree they have some form of consciousness...so from your logic, i assume that there consciousness would survive their death too, correct?

Bro it seems you didn't read the reply i gave @lilbrown. If you did, you wouldn't be asking that question above. Pls i won't repeat myself, go and read it.

Now for that story i know you will look for unreasonable excuses. But what i notice you highlited was "she was too terrified to come out" if you were the one, will you have the guts to come out?

I pray you experience the paranormal one of these days maybe that will shatter your believe system.

frank317:
Oga... pls respond to my post... this you response has nothing to do with the question I asked u. This is a reminder below...
And for your NDE woman, it explains nothing... it just raised a lot of unanswered questions, your conclusion on it is not a certainty , so let's stick on what we can relate with.

Unanswered questions? I see, keep hoping it will be answered one day.

Now to the issue of consciousness and the brain. Please explain to me how the brain generates consciousness

because the last time i checked, even your bosses (the neuroscientists still don't know) now if the concept of consciousness/mind/reality as the soul is correct @lilbrown then they will never find the answer or it will remain Unanswered untill they admit that the human body has a soul.

Now speaking religiously, we know it's very possible for the soul to exist outside the body.

[quote author=AgentOfAllah post=46769263][/quote]I knew it, you don't have anything meaningful to offer, just insults, meanwhile i will stop replying you.

But for your Last question on consciousness existing outside the body, check the latest reply @frank317. Pls i can't repeat myself

Dejideji1:
I knew it, you don't have anything meaningful to offer, just insults, meanwhile i will stop replying you.

An inglorious way to concede defeat...but...still, I accept your concession!

But for your Last question on consciousness existing outside the body, check the latest reply @frank317. Pls i can't repeat myself

You could have just stopped at "I will stop replying you".

Dejideji1:
Unanswered questions? I see, keep hoping it will be answered one day.

Now to the issue of consciousness and the brain. Please explain to me how the brain generates consciousness

because the last time i checked, even your bosses (the neuroscientists still don't know) now if the concept of consciousness/mind/reality as the soul is correct @lilbrown then they will never find the answer or it will remain Unanswered untill they admit that the human body has a soul.

Now speaking religiously, we know it's very possible for the soul to exist outside the body.

We don't know how the brain generates consciousness but we know it has to do with the brain. Pain, awareness, memory, feeling of esteem, loneliness, pride, etc... all have a lot to do with the brain. The more complex the brain, the clearer the awareness the body that houses it has.

You have not explained how the brain has got nothing to do with consciousness...trust me, without the brain you will never be conscious.

Bro... pls don't talk again. You have no idea what u are talking about, just noise without saying anything meaningful.

You pride yourself like someone who is smart, but you are nothing like KingEbuka, so much noise with nothing to offer.

And nooooo we are not going to allow you to escape this with spiritual jargons that you clearly don't even understand.

You don't even know what a soul is. You don't even read your responses, they are so laugheable... my advice.... stop embarrassing yourself talking rubbish and go and learn.

The day u successfully provide a human who is conscious with no brain... open a thread. Otherwise close this one.


Signs out of this nonsense thread.

And stop referring people to the post you replied me like u even made sense in them. Don't give me the impression that ur brain does not function properly by assuming you don't see the nonsense you spill in my responses.

Sorry I have to be harsh on you because you seriously need to know u know absolutely nothing.

I am out of here

Dejideji1:
Bro it seems you didn't read the reply i gave @lilbrown. If you did, you wouldn't be asking that question above. Pls i won't repeat myself, go and read it.

if you want to reference a post, why dont you paste it here...after all, it wasnt me you sent the post to...I am tired of this argument sef...peace be unto you and your consciousness

I pray you experience the paranormal one of these days maybe that will shatter your believe system.

Please pray hard...

.

[quote author=frank317 post=46691017][/quote]Guy why all this insult? I have gone through your profile page and scanned through your comments on other threads and i can see that you are extremely rude and arrogant
You think you can just insult anybody because this is an anonymous forum?

I can see the reason why you and your colleagues don't want to believe in God and follow religious rules is because of your arrogance/pride and because of the lifestyle you are living, you want to enjoy life to the fullest without any restrictions regardless of whether what you are doing is morally right or not.

Let me tell you something, all this things you currently see as pleasure in your youthful days that is making you to deny God and live an unrestricted lifestyle, as you grow older you will begin to realize there is no more pleasure in them again and you will realize there is a vacuum you need to fill inside you and nothing else can fill that vacuum except your creator.

So go ahead and enjoy your life to the fullest without any restriction but remember you have a conscience and with time you will realize what i stated above.

[quote author=frank317 post=46768591][/quote]*modified

Dejideji1:
Guy why all this insult? I have gone through your profile page and scanned through your comments on other threads and i can see that you are extremely rude and arrogant
You think you can just insult anybody because this is an anonymous forum?

I can see the reason why you and your colleagues don't want to believe in God and follow religious rules is because of your arrogance/pride and because of the lifestyle you are living, you want to enjoy life to the fullest without any restrictions regardless of whether what you are doing is morally right or not.

Let me tell you something, all this things you currently see as pleasure in your youthful days that is making you to deny God and live an unrestricted lifestyle, as you grow older you will begin to realize there is no more pleasure in them again and you will realize there is a vacuum you need to fill inside you and nothing else can fill that vacuum except your creator.

So go ahead and enjoy your life to the fullest without any restriction but remember you have a conscience and with time you will realize what i stated above.

Your ****God don't want me to enjoy life to the fullest? Sadist mudafucking sky daddy... and so why should I serve him if he does not want me to enjoy life to the fullest... is he not enjoying his hevean to the fullest?

Tell him he has failed... I am having the best fun my human mind can provide.

[quote author=frank317 post=46768591][/quote]You are hiding under anonymity to insult God? Were you drunk as usual when you typed that? Now i can see you are truly a beast. You know you can't try this in the open else you will become history. Well i will leave you to God who is omnipresent to deal with you. It's just sad that you are about to learn of his existence in a harsh way.

[quote author=frank317 post=46768591][/quote]*modified

frank317:
Your ****God don't want me to enjoy life to the fullest? Sadist mudafucking sky daddy... and so why should I serve him if he does not want me to enjoy life to the fullest... is he not enjoying his hevean to the fullest?

Tell him he has failed... I am having the best fun my human mind can provide.

Dejideji1:
You are hiding under anonymity to insult God? Were you drunk as usual when you typed that? Now i can see you are truly a beast. You know you can't try this in the open else you will become history. Well i will leave you to God who is omnipresent to deal with you. It's just sad that you are about to learn of his existence in a harsh way.

Boko haram! Your blood thirsty omni-omni god should learn to fight its fight by itself instead of hiding behind its believers for vengeance; lest we should add omni-petulant-malingerer to its long list of omnis.

AgentOfAllah:

Boko haram! Your blood thirsty omni-omni god should learn to fight its fight by itself instead of hiding behind its believers for vengeance; lest we should add omni-petulant-malingerer to its long list of omnis.

Guy pls don't interfere in this matter, most of his comments has been removed. so you don't know what transpired between us.

Dejideji1:
Guy pls don't interfere in this matter, most of his comments has been removed. so you don't know what transpired between us.

Or what? You'll threaten me too with your omni god?

AgentOfAllah:
Or what? You'll threaten me too with your omni god?

Get lost!

[quote author=AgentOfAllah post=46822306][/quote]Yeye guy calling someone a bokoharam it seems you didn't consider your moniker before commenting. Between you and I, who is more likely to be a Boko haram member? Or who is more likely to be affiliated with bokoharam.?

Dejideji1:
Yeye guy calling someone a bokoharam it seems you didn't consider your moniker before commenting. Between you and I, who is more likely to be a Boko haram member? Or who is more likely to be affiliated with bokoharam.?

No, I didn't consider my moniker because I'm intelligent enough to know that if names made people boko haram, Muhammed Ali, Barack Obama and Salman Rushdie would be Boko haram. Unfortunately for you, names don't make people boko haram. But you wouldn't know that because you're obtuse, just like boko haramites.

On the other hand, I haven't threatened to make someone become history for attacking my belief (or lack of), you have! That's what makes people boko haram...that's what makes YOU boko haram.