₦airaland Forum

As usual when presented with their much sought after proof they run away and hide.

Confused lot.

cloudgoddess:
So when a person consumes a poison, or is a victim of an accident that causes them to enter a vegetative state, is it God that takes away their consciousness? Or is the loss in consciousness a result of physical & chemical damage?

You comment shows you lack an understanding of what consciousness is. I am sure your loud silence now is proof that even you are confused

Seun:
It is true that consciousness isn't well understood by science at this time. We can make robots that behave like conscious beings, but we do not believe they have the same sense of self-awareness that animals and people seem to have. This is absolutely true.

But the inability of science to explain something doesn't prove the existence of God. There was a time when we could not explain how life came to be, thunder & lightning, how birds fly, how bats navigate without light, rainbows, etc. People took our inability to explain those things as a sign of the existence of God, but now we understand them through science. We may eventually understand consciousness through science.i

Your speculations about the nature of consciousness are just speculations. There's no evidence that they are correct. I could come up with mine, and they would be equally useless. You can't just make things up and act as if they are true.

Seun you should have stopped at "science cannot explain consciousness" because that was the only statement that made sense.

You say science can still prove consciousness? They have been trying to do since pre 1930 and have been unable to.

They have even tried applying their favourite escape route " QUANTUM THEORY" and that also has failed. Rather what it did was create a whole new branch of science called BIOCENTRICS but ironically the same biocentrics has proven the existence of consciousness outside the body as you cannot link the mind to the brain.

You also said that you could say your own theory and it would be useless. But of course it would be useless because you have no proof. Ironically all you enjoy doing is to use scientific evidence to make your points and dispute others but this same science has proven consciousness as a reality outside the body or in death.

So are you confused or just living in your own head?

There are very few Atheists who are willing to humble themselves and admit to an error or that they were actually wrong.

This thread is classic proof of that. Proof has beeb shown why you all are wrong and rather than admit it you all ran away.

You would come and peek at the thread and then slinker away in shame.

Consciouness is proof of a higher level that dwarfs science and even science has admitted to this as being true.

So if science proves that consciousness exists why then do we argue about evolution especially since consciousness did not evolve?

Food for thought.

joseph1013:
I don't take UyiIredia serious. He is a pseudo-intellectual who uses the god-of-the-gap alot.

How can you make speculations and pass them across as facts. Huh?

That second part really is at the crux of all this.

Even if consciousness is not yet fully explained by science -- which I completely concede to (however we have tons of evidence that consciousness, at least for human beings, can not exist without physical & chemical elements functioning in such a way as to allow it) -- I can't for the life of me figure out how that lack of understanding proves Yahweh, or any of the personal gods described & worshipped by humans.

It's like saying, "we don't know why stars are so bright, so there has to be a star fairy planting stars throughout the galaxy!" Like how did you get from point A to point Z?

There are too many unevidenced assumptions one would have to make to conclude that the God of Abraham is real and wants us to follow Jesus, simply because consciousness is not yet fully understood.

cloudgoddess:
That second part really is at the crux of all this.

Even if consciousness is not yet fully explained by science -- which I completely concede to (however we have tons of evidence that consciousness, at least for human beings, can not exist without physical & chemical elements functioning in such a way as to allow it) -- I can't for the life of me figure out how that lack of understanding proves Yahweh, or any of the personal gods described & worshipped by humans.

It's like saying, "we don't know why stars are so bright, so there has to be a star fairy planting stars throughout the galaxy!" Like how did you get from point A to point Z?

There are too many unevidenced assumptions one would have to make to conclude that the God of Abraham is real and wants us to follow Jesus, simply because consciousness is not yet fully understood.

My sister you contradict yourself by saying science cannot explain consciousness and in the same breath talk about chemical effects on consciousness.

You see science prides itself in well documented facts based on repeated experiments as proof. So science is basically a law of ratio or averages. If something works 70% of the time when done a certain way then its generalised as the norm.

However consciousness CANNOT and HAS NOT followed that order of averages or ratios.

In a sense this pushes the envelope on why when we sleep our mind does not sleep and it experiences dreams and visions and for some, a glimpse into the future so drugs may hold back the brain but not the mind.

Get it now? Go through the links I posted since none of you had any proof to your assertions and update yourself.

4evergod2:
They have even tried applying their favourite escape route " QUANTUM THEORY" and that also has failed. Rather what it did was create a whole new branch of science called BIOCENTRICS but ironically the same biocentrics has proven the existence of consciousness outside the body as you cannot link the mind to the brain.

Biocentrics is not a branch of science. It's a hypothesis by a medical doctor (not a real scientist) for which I can find no evidence.

You say science can still prove consciousness? They have been trying to do since pre 1930 and have been unable to.

Scientists have learnt a lot about consciousness. We've learnt how various chemicals and parts of the brain affect our conscious feelings, etc. That's why we now have effective treatments for depression, schizophrenia, etc. What we don't understand is self-awareness specifically. What makes us different from robots? What makes us feel that we are "real" while a computer program is just code no matter how smart it is? The point is that there is always something that science can't explain, but you can't say "therefore God" because science may figure it out tomorrow.

UyiIredia:
But those brain, nerves and hormones are not consciousness are they no? Not even their action is consciousness any more than a running engine is Driving a car. Their action results in a consciousness that is immaterial. Earlier I said that consciosuness is the state of being aware. Clearly that is not a material thing. Yet you foolishly insist it is. And point to the brain as if that helps.

The problem is that these atheists are disingenuous . Why will someone remain obdurate about his daft argument when its so clear that he is not making any sense

Seun:
Biocentrics is not a branch of science. It's a hypothesis by a medical doctor (not a real scientist) for which I can find no evidence.


Scientists have learnt a lot about consciousness. We've learnt how various chemicals and parts of the brain affect our conscious feelings, etc. That's why we now have effective treatments for depression, schizophrenia, etc. What we don't understand is self-awareness specifically. What makes us different from robots? What makes us feel that we are "real" while a computer program is just code no matter how smart it is? The point is that there is always something that science can't explain, but you can't say "therefore God" because science may figure it out tomorrow.

Your phobia for God is evident in this response. I never mentioned God or is God the only thing Atheists dont believe in? You dont believe in God, gods or higher powers.


Biocentric universe (from Greek: βίος, bios, "life"—also known as biocentrism—is a concept proposed in 2007 by American doctor of medicine Robert Lanza, a scientist in the fields of regenerative medicine and biology, which sees biology as the central driving science in the universe, and an understanding of the other


So he is not a scientist right? I guess Wikipedia is wrong and seun is right.

4evergod2:
As usual when presented with their much sought after proof they run away and hide.

Confused lot.

You are being ignored because you are not making sense. It is like trying to explain quantum physics to my illiterate house girl that can't even write her name.
Being ignored can be painful, but take heart

Seun:
Scientists have learnt a lot about consciousness.

The only thing they have learnt about consciousness is that the brain is superconnected when someone is awake giving them the special feeling of being self aware and its just a suggestion . There have been also other researches on the level of consciousness shown by plants

What makes us different from robots? What makes us feel that we are "real" while a computer program is just code no matter how smart it is? The point is that there is always something that science can't explain, but you can't say "therefore God" because science may figure it out tomorrow.

Intelligence and Consciousness are attributes bequeathed to us by God . They are eternal . These attributes can only be passed down

We are making several efforts to make robots to be conscious and bear thoughts(passing down) and the only way we can know that that goal has been actualized is because we are conscious and can think too .

Cogito Ergo Sum - I think therefore I am . This explains in a huge way what makes us conscious . Robots can't think nor are they volitional . The only way we can know that's this problem has been overcome is because we are conscious and bear thoughts and can determine if a robot can or not .

Yes , we have the Turing test but its a test for intelligence and how best a robot emulates a human .

Now that explains how God knows man is intelligent/conscious because he has those attributes and he is eternal .

This is so simple , you atheists just choose to make things complex and difficult for yourselves - obfuscation

HardMirror:
You are being ignored because you are not making sense. It is like trying to explain quantum physics to my illiterate house girl that can't even write her name.
Being ignored can be painful, but take heart

I am being ignored because I am not making sense yet Seun replied. I guess he knows I was making sense and you cannot know because this is above your scope of reasoning.

Seun:
Biocentrics is not a branch of science. It's a hypothesis by a medical doctor (not a real scientist) for which I can find no evidence.


Scientists have learnt a lot about consciousness. We've learnt how various chemicals and parts of the brain affect our conscious feelings, etc. That's why we now have effective treatments for depression, schizophrenia, etc. What we don't understand is self-awareness specifically. What makes us different from robots? What makes us feel that we are "real" while a computer program is just code no matter how smart it is? The point is that there is always something that science can't explain, but you can't say "therefore God" because science may figure it out tomorrow.

If you have no evidence of Biocentrism let me help you with this evidence.


http://www.biocentricity.net

Read up and perhaps hardmirror you would help yourself by doing same with that link ( that is if you can understand it)

UyiIredia:
Nobody has brought any serious challenge to my argument. All I see are half-baked arguments and misunderstandings as to the nature of consciousness.

Truth . Its very disappointing . Logical thinkers my ass

cloudgoddess:
That second part really is at the crux of all this.
There are too many unevidenced assumptions one would have to make to conclude that the God of Abraham is real and wants us to follow Jesus, simply because consciousness is not yet fully understood.

Atheists are carried away by the awesomeness of nature . Nature is simply functional . The functionality of nature can be likened to an automated process . Simple .

cloudgoddess:
That second part really is at the crux of all this.

Even if consciousness is not yet fully explained by science -- which I completely concede to (however we have tons of evidence that consciousness, at least for human beings, can not exist without physical & chemical elements functioning in such a way as to allow it) -- I can't for the life of me figure out how that lack of understanding proves Yahweh, or any of the personal gods described & worshipped by humans.

It's like saying, "we don't know why stars are so bright, so there has to be a star fairy planting stars throughout the galaxy!" Like how did you get from point A to point Z?

There are too many unevidenced assumptions one would have to make to conclude that the God of Abraham is real and wants us to follow Jesus, simply because consciousness is not yet fully understood.

I'm not arguing for the Christian God here. Just God as generally known, The Creator of the universe.

KingEbukaNaija:
Atheists are carried away by the awesomeness of nature . Nature is simply functional . The functionality of nature can be likened to an automated process . Simple .

Atheists fail to realise that all Science does is prove that there is a higher power at play here. I say this because if scientists will make use of a multi million dollar science equipment and still end up further consulting fellow scientists before and still taking 20 or more years to explain why an ant excretes certain chemicals when agitated or how they are able to differentiate between sugar and salt particles then does this not show you that evolution is a joke?

If evolution was a crude process then how come it suddenly became more intelligent and complex than science imagines and takes science decades to explain just one thing?

NATURE IS A SCHOOL AND SCIENTISTS ARE ITS STUDENTS AND NOT ITS TEACHERS!

THE HAND BEHIND NATURE CAN ONLY BE GOD. Take it or leave it.

Cc cloudgoddess, seun

4evergod2:
Atheists fail to realise that all Science does is prove that there is a higher power at play here. I say this because if scientists will make use of a multi million dollar science equipment and still end up further consulting fellow scientists before and still taking 20 or more years to explain why an ant excretes certain chemicals when agitated or how they are able to differentiate between sugar and salt particles then does this not show you that evolution is a joke?

If evolution was a crude process then how come it suddenly became more intelligent and complex than science imagines and takes science decades to explain just one thing?

NATURE IS A SCHOOL AND SCIENTISTS ARE ITS STUDENTS AND NOT ITS TEACHERS!

THE HAND BEHIND NATURE CAN ONLY BE GOD. Take it or leave it.

Evolution dwells on putative ancestors as proof . Just like the ancestors of whales , camels etc . The proof of these ancestors are shown by pictures .

Man evolving from fish has to be the joke of the century .

UyiIredia:
If this is gonna be your answer then I can only shake my head in pity. Didn't you just read the OP. I said consciousness can't evolve since it's not physical. Evolution applies only to physical things.

So what? You say that consciousness isn't physical so we should just accept that?

We don't have a full understanding of consciousness but we know that out is 'stored' in the cerebral cortex so what evidence do you have that it isn't physical? Why do fill the gaps that scientific ignorance leaves with God? It shows how shaky the theory of your belief is.

4evergod2:
Atheists fail to realise that all Science does is prove that there is a higher power at play here. I say this because if scientists will make use of a multi million dollar science equipment and still end up further consulting fellow scientists before and still taking 20 or more years to explain why an ant excretes certain chemicals when agitated or how they are able to differentiate between sugar and salt particles then does this not show you that evolution is a joke?

If evolution was a crude process then how come it suddenly became more intelligent and complex than science imagines and takes science decades to explain just one thing?

NATURE IS A SCHOOL AND SCIENTISTS ARE ITS STUDENTS AND NOT ITS TEACHERS!

THE HAND BEHIND NATURE CAN ONLY BE GOD. Take it or leave it.

Cc cloudgoddess, seun

Maybe because it is a systematic, objective and hence, the most credible and successful method for understanding the world around us. Religion on the other hand, is just a bunch of guys drawing up conclusions from whatever they feel is right.

CoolUsername:
Maybe because it is a systematic, objective and hence, the most credible and successful method for understanding the world around us. Religion on the other hand, is just a bunch of guys drawing up conclusions from whatever they feel is right.

So says u or so says science?

CoolUsername:
So what? You say that consciousness isn't physical so we should just accept that?

We don't have a full understanding of consciousness but we know that out is 'stored' in the cerebral cortex so what evidence do you have that it isn't physical? Why do fill the gaps that scientific ignorance leaves with God? It shows how shaky the theory of your belief is.

Consciousness is NOT stored in any cerebral cortex. If it was, scientists or biologists would have identified it. So stop floundering.

CoolUsername:
Maybe because it is a systematic, objective and hence, the most credible and successful method for understanding the world around us. Religion on the other hand, is just a bunch of guys drawing up conclusions from whatever they feel is right.

Science is simply understanding God's work . Religion has to do with worship of God . Atheism has nothing to do with Science but it has everything to do with religion , ask the communists

@CoolUsername

You have proof man evolved from fish ?

KingEbukaNaija:
@CoolUsername

You have proof man evolved from fish ?

Nope he doesnt...neither does he believe in the proof when it presented to him so what does that make him?......


CONFUSED!

4evergod2:
Nope he doesnt...neither does he believe in the proof when it presented to him so what does that make him?......


CONFUSED!

Evolutionists need putative ancestors for their theory to work . Now they are the ones that defined these putative ancestors and gave them those characteristics that are needed for the theory to work . Ask CoolUsername , he knows more

They think they theory is proof for the variety of life because of these putative ancestors .

The precis of this yarn is that these putative ancestors are simply imaginations of the evolutionist .


Evolutionists need this below to make their theory to work

KingEbukaNaija:
Evolutionists need putative ancestors for their theory to work . Now they are the ones that defined these putative ancestors and gave them those characteristics that needed the theory to work . Ask CoolUsername , he knows more

They think they theory is proof for the variety of life because of these putative ancestors .

The precis of this yarn is that these putative ancestors are simply imaginations of the evolutionist .


Evolutionists need this below to make their theory to work

Yes simply their imaginations but Alas the super thinking Atheists believe these imaginations. Super thinkers indeed!

KingEbukaNaija:
The only thing they have learnt about consciousness is that the brain is superconnected when someone is awake giving them the special feeling of being self aware and its just a suggestion . There have been also other researches on the level of consciousness shown by plants




Intelligence and Consciousness are attributes bequeathed to us by God . They are eternal . These attributes can only be passed down

We are making several efforts to make robots to be conscious and bear thoughts(passing down) and the only way we can know that that goal has been actualized is because we are conscious and can think too .

Cogito Ergo Sum - I think therefore I am . This explains in a huge way what makes us conscious . Robots can't think nor are they volitional . The only way we can know that's this problem has been overcome is because we are conscious and bear thoughts and can determine if a robot can or not .

Yes , we have the Turing test but its a test for intelligence and how best a robot emulates a human .

Now that explains how God knows man is intelligent/conscious because he has those attributes and he is eternal .

This is so simple , you atheists just choose to make things complex and difficult for yourselves - obfuscation

What are we to do with this pile of baseless assumptions please?

dalaman:
What are we to do with this pile of baseless assumptions please?

Oh ... the dilettantes and philistines are here already . Well the message is recondite , only meant perspicacious ones . Sorry you are not on that list

dalaman:
What are we to do with this pile of baseless assumptions please?

Atheism is something about intelligent people being full of doubt while religious folks are stupid people full of confidence without answers

BlackIsLife:
Atheism is something about intelligent people being full of doubt while religious folks are stupid people full of confidence without answers

Yet these same stupid people gave birth to science.

Everything intelligent just laughed at you now.

KingEbukaNaija:
Oh ... the dilettantes and philistines are here already . Well the message is recondite , only meant perspicacious ones . Sorry you are not on that list

What sort of knowledge is it you are spreading around bro? . You aren't spreading knowledge but assumptions.