₦airaland Forum

I said if old Ijesha territories were added, Ijesa state will be more than Ekiti state but presently Ekiti is more than Ijesa. The people in Osogbo, Offa, Ilorin are mainly native Oyo speakers, Okuku and co are Ibolo as you say. It was Benin adventure into Ondo and Ekiti that removed places like Igbara oke and Akure from Ijesa control. That was in the 16th century or so. When Ibadan stopped the Fulani at Osogbo, all sorts of refugees settled in Osogbo and the place lost its identity as an Ijesa outpost in the 19th century and so on and so forth. The Ekitis are like the Anioma or western Igbos in organisation but the Ijesha were more adventurous people with a view to expanding their influence. That is what I meant by saying the Ijesas were better nation builders. No monarch like the Owa Obokun in Ekiti. All are small holders with titles representative of ancient empires that had declined.

Why I say Ijebu is more than Ekiti is because they have more towns than Ekiti in Lagos and Ogun states. Ikorodu and Epe are Ijebu though they are in Lagos. If all Ijebu are in one state, the population will be more than Ekiti state. Also, the combination of Ife and Ijesa is more than Ekiti state as they are more than half of Osun state.

People living in Yoruba land in the SW, NC and SS may be up to 60 million, if we say that is the population of Yoruba since Yoruba are also in other places, then Oyo people will be more than 30 percent of that.

I don't know why you say Akure and some other Ondo towns are Ekiti. What of Owo and Ondo then, Ile Oluji or even Ipetu Ijesa? All those places are more Ijesa than any other thing. A town like Efon Alaaye is more of Ijesa or what affiliation do they have with Ado that they don't have more of it with Ilesa? But for convenience, they are grouped as Ekiti. If there is a rearrangement where towns are allowed to allign the way they like. The Ijesha will swell in population.

Ok Mr Lawani, Mo ti Gbo o....

So, from what I can deduce, the Oyos are the largest, followed by the Ekitis.

This thread is more or less a divisive one. I am from an evidence based research background, your conclusion must be supported by indisputable facts and figures. Where are those evidences to claim one group is having more people than the others. This is just an hypothesis and not to be taken as facts.

1. You cannot use the numbers of towns and hamlets to justify this - What is the population of all these towns?
2. We cannot use the latest census figures from each of these towns to justify our hypothesis because those figures are for all individuals (both local and non-indigenes)

2006 census Ekiti - 2.38M, Ogun - 3.66M, Ondo- 3.44M, Osun - 3.42M, Oyo - 5.59M
Lagos, Kwara and Kogi are too diverse with non Yoruba groups.
3. Basing our assumption on spread across numerous states is also not correct
4. Where do you place big towns like Ibadan with local Oyo, Ijebu, Egba, Ijesa, Ife etc original settlers. The town and its hamlets is made up of all these group of people. Do we just take Ibadan to be of Oyo.
Even Abeokuta is not 100% Egba - A large part of the town are Owus, Ijayes, Yewas etc. Many Egbas are originally Oyo
Ilorin is another mix bag.
Where do we place the Owus who are scattered all over SW , NC and Benin Republic
5. What group do we place the Yorubas outside Nigeria especially those in Benin Republic, Togo, Americas
6. It is a known fact that a large proportion of Yoruba subgroup population are residing in Lagos. Personally about 70% of my town people are either in Lagos or Ibadan for the 3rd generation. How do you account for such?

Ekiti State may be the state with an almost 100% subgroup population with Ekitis in Osun, Kwara and Kogi States, that doesnt make the group the largest. Mind you Oyos have large population in Osun as well and constituted the largest group in Ibadan at the inception. Egbas are also part of Lagos mainland. Ijebus are both major player in Ogun and Lagos States with huge stake in Ibadan. What of the Akokos extending to part of Edo.


Can we objectively claim a group is the largest? Based on what?

This is a 1931 population figure based on taxes. I believe Ekiti is grouped together with Ondo and Ibadan together with Oyo

Abeokuta- Egba, Egbado
Ijebu- Ijebu, Remo
Ondo- Ondo, Ekiti, Okitipupa, Owo
Oyo - Oyo, Ife, Ilesha, Ibadan
Ilorin - Ilorin, Borgu, Pategi-Lafiagi
Kabba- Kabba, Igbirra, Koton-Karifi, Igala
Colony - Lagos


Oyo is obviously the largest group if we go by provincial divisions of the 1930s

macof:
No. Efon is not Ekiti. . they reside in the Ekiti hilly lands but they are Ijesa like Imesi too

No you missed it again . Efon alaaye is ekiti but they speak the ekiti dialect in ijesa intonation

lawani:
I said if old Ijesha territories were added, Ijesa state will be more than Ekiti state but presently Ekiti is more than Ijesa. The people in Osogbo, Offa, Ilorin are mainly native Oyo speakers, Okuku and co are Ibolo as you say. It was Benin adventure into Ondo and Ekiti that removed places like Igbara oke and Akure from Ijesa control. That was in the 16th century or so. When Ibadan stopped the Fulani at Osogbo, all sorts of refugees settled in Osogbo and the place lost its identity as an Ijesa outpost in the 19th century and so on and so forth. The Ekitis are like the Anioma or western Igbos in organisation but the Ijesha were more adventurous people with a view to expanding their influence. That is what I meant by saying the Ijesas were better nation builders. No monarch like the Owa Obokun in Ekiti. All are small holders with titles representative of ancient empires that had declined.

Why I say Ijebu is more than Ekiti is because they have more towns than Ekiti in Lagos and Ogun states. Ikorodu and Epe are Ijebu though they are in Lagos. If all Ijebu are in one state, the population will be more than Ekiti state. Also, the combination of Ife and Ijesa is more than Ekiti state as they are more than half of Osun state.

People living in Yoruba land in the SW, NC and SS may be up to 60 million, if we say that is the population of Yoruba since Yoruba are also in other places, then Oyo people will be more than 30 percent of that.

I don't know why you say Akure and some other Ondo towns are Ekiti. What of Owo and Ondo then, Ile Oluji or even Ipetu Ijesa? All those places are more Ijesa than any other thing. A town like Efon Alaaye is more of Ijesa or what affiliation do they have with Ado that they don't have more of it with Ilesa? But for convenience, they are grouped as Ekiti. If there is a rearrangement where towns are allowed to allign the way they like. The Ijesha will swell in population.

Speaking ekiti dialect in ijesa intonation does not make any part of ekiti an ijesa territory

olajigaolamide:
Speaking ekiti dialect in ijesa intonation does not make any part of ekiti an ijesa territory

You dont get my explanation. Who owns Efon? That is the Alaaye in council!. They dont owe anyone any explanation! The Alaaye has nothing to do with Ado , Ijero or Ikere that they dont have more with Ilesa?. Efon people speak pure Ijesa not Ekiti. They are Efon, you dont need to add Ekiti. The town is Efon Alaaye. Not Efon Alaaye Ekiti. That is the issue. All the big towns in the area have distinct identities. The name Ekiti is just to denote the hilly terrain. No Ekitis in same sense as there are Ijesas, Oyo, Ijebu, Igbomina. Do you know that before Nigeria, the Owarangun Aga of ila Orangun was seen as the most senior monarch of Ekitis?

It is good as Ekiti is becoming an identity but Ado Ekiti is the only fairly big place yet there.

lawani:
You dont get my explanation. Who owns Efon? That is the Alaaye in council!. They dont owe anyone any explanation! The Alaaye has nothing to do with Ado , Ijero or Ikere that they dont have more with Ilesa?. Efon people speak pure Ijesa not Ekiti. They are Efon, you dont need to add Ekiti. The town is Efon Alaaye. Not Efon Alaaye Ekiti. That is the issue. All the big towns in the area have distinct identities. The name Ekiti is just to denote the hilly terrain. No Ekitis in same sense as there are Ijesas, Oyo, Ijebu, Igbomina. Do you know that before Nigeria, the Owarangun Aga of ila Orangun was seen as the most senior monarch of Ekitis?

It is good as Ekiti is becoming an identity but Ado Ekiti is the only fairly big place yet there.

You need to do research to Yoruba history again; there will be new identities even in the future. The people referred to as Ekiti, Igbomina, Ife, Ijesa, and some few others are simply ONE! the most ancient and central to Yoruba identity and origin. Alara, Oore, Elekole, Ewi, Ajero, Orangun, etc are siblings of Owa Obokun.
I'm from Ekiti; Omo Owa, Omo Ekun; Eso Orita Egiri-Oke. Aba mi a gbe mi.
We still know our family street in Ife, we are from the East and Semitic; we already mixed with the indigenous ancient Atlantis and Sea-fearers Canaanite of Phoenician descent. I'm no longer Ife or Ijesa, I'm Ekiti and I'm just accepting to be called Yoruba (since Oyo increased population was due to infitteration of Tapas and Barubas, Oyo+Baruba became Yoruba according to Songhai writer) though many old people in my land and other Eastern Olukumi, Anago communities like Itsekiri , etc still refused to be called Yoruba...

lawani:
There was no central authourity in Ekiti in the past. This is why I said they had no unified identity pre Nigeria. All the communities held themselves separate and communities like Efon Alaaye are more of Ijesa. All the communities you mentioned in Ondo are more of Ijesa also, by dialect and history of many resident families. Then the Ijesa, Ife and etc are thesame as Ekiti by dialect. The Ijesa were better nation builders than the Ekiti who preferred to live in laid back and unambitious communities.

The Oyo are the largest group of Yoruba, controlling most of the big towns Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin, Osogbo, Offa and etc, all settled after the Oyo were dislodged from the North by Fulani jihadists. Ijebu and Remo together should be more than Ekiti even if you add up all the Ekitis together. Towns under the Ijebu are Ijebu Ode, Ijebu Igbo, Shagamu, Ikorodu, Epe and many others. The main Ekiti town is Ado, then there are Ikere, Efon Alaaye and etc. If you add up all the towns that were under Ijesha in the past, it would be Ilesa, Akure, Osogbo, Ipetu Ijesa, Ibokun, Esa Oke, Ido Osun and etc but Akure and Osogbo are out. Osogbo is dominated by Oyo though prominent families claim Ijesa origin while Akure has come into their own. Ijesas are sizeable in the diaspora. The Akoko are also in Edo and Ondo states, the Ikale are in Ondo too, Igbomina in Osun and Kwara with capital in Ila Orangun and etc. The Okun are in Kogi with towns like Kabba, Obajana and etc, Lokoja is also there but Lokoja was Oyo and not Okun. Lokoja is now like Lagos, a non indigenous town. If there is proper delineation, a new Ijesa state may add back old territories including Osogbo and Akure, places like Efon Alaaye, Ilaramokin and many Ondo parts speaking Ijesa may join too which will mean Ijesa will be more than Ekiti.

As it is presently Oyos are clearly more than Ekiti if not more than double, same with Ijebu with their spread in Lagos and Ogun states

I think we need to apreciate the diversity within Yoruba people. It may seem like Oyo is the largest, there are many people in Oyo state who aren't Oyo. In Oyo, there is Ibarapa in the South. The Onko (Oke Ogun) occupy half of the state's total landmass and 1/3 of the population. The Onko people are very distinct from the Oyo in their dialect with the use of the ch sound, which is rare among Yoruba dialects as well as additional nasal sounds. Large ancient settlements like Saki, Iseyin, and Kisi in Oyo are all Onko. Both the Ibarapa and Onko were once grouped under Ekun Otun province during the Oyo Empire. Ogbomosho, Oyo, Ibadan, and Ilorin are all considered Oyo, although with some very minor notable differences. Even in the Old Oyo days, they recognized these small differences.The dialect spoken in Oyo town was considered and I quote "purest." Towns like Ibadan, Fiditi and Iwo in Osun state were grouped under Epo division to distinguish them from Oyo, Ilorin, and Ogbomosho which were grouped in Ekun Osi province AKA Metropolitan Oyo. These minor differences are important because they stop us from generalizing or overlooking certain groups. Even though Ekiti and Okun are biding entities, these two groups are far from homogeneous. When you travel across Ekiti, you will notice these differences. For example, while related, the dialect spoken in Omuo is very different from the one in Ado. The Okun for example are further divided into Yagba, Owe, Oworo, Bunu, Ijumu, and Igbede. However, I feel like sometimes large groupings are helpful because they are more biding and unifying. You are a little correct about Lokoja being a "non-indigineous"(cosmopolitan) town, however we can't forget that the earliest settlers of Lokoja were the Oworo-Okun. Quarters like Felele and Otokiti are Oworo.


There seem to be a little confusion about the people living in Osogbo which I can help clarify. People tend to group Ibolo as Oyo. I understand why. Ibolos were once part of the Oyo empire. During that period, they were grouped under the Ibolo Province. Towns like Osogbo, Offa, Ede, Oyan, Ikirun, Ilobu, Okuku, Ejigbo are all Ibolo. Till today, Offa is regarded as more of a cultural capital than Osogbo. People have to understand that one of the main reasons why Osogbo gets more attention is due to its administrative role which has led to many other Yoruba groups to migrate there. The historical center of Osogbo is still primarily Ibolo though.

lawani:
You can't say Akure is Ekiti because the Ijesha also claim them, so Akure is Akure. Not Ekiti if Ijesha is not Ekiti. Same is true for all those places you mentioned in Ondo, they are more of Ijesha because there is actually no unit as Ekiti because all the town hold themselves separate from others and speak related but different dialects. It is now that an Ekiti identity is being created in Nigeria.

If not for the incursion of the Benin empire and later Ibadan in Osogbo. Large parts of Ondo and Ekiti would have been Ijesha as they were in the past.

Sir, you have little knowledge of Yoruba history with everything you'd wrote all through. You need to read a lot of history books because all your claims are mere hearsays....

Also, Akure dialect closely sounds like that of Ise-Ekiti.

9jakool:
I think we need to apreciate the diversity within Yoruba people. It may seem like Oyo is the largest, there are many people in Oyo state who aren't Oyo. In Oyo, there is Ibarapa in the South. The Onko (Oke Ogun) occupy half of the state's total landmass and 1/3 of the population. The Onko people are very distinct from the Oyo in their dialect with the use of the ch sound, which is rare among Yoruba dialects as well as additional nasal sounds. Large ancient settlements like Saki, Iseyin, and Kisi in Oyo are all Onko. Both the Ibarapa and Onko were once grouped under Ekun Otun province during the Oyo Empire. Ogbomosho, Oyo, Ibadan, and Ilorin are all considered Oyo, although with some very minor notable differences. Even in the Old Oyo days, they recognized these small differences.The dialect spoken in Oyo town was considered and I quote "purest." Towns like Ibadan, Fiditi and Iwo in Osun state were grouped under Epo division to distinguish them from Oyo, Ilorin, and Ogbomosho which were grouped in Ekun Osi province AKA Metropolitan Oyo. These minor differences are important because they stop us from generalizing or overlooking certain groups. Even though Ekiti and Okun are biding entities, these two groups are far from homogeneous. When you travel across Ekiti, you will notice these differences. For example, while related, the dialect spoken in Omuo is very different from the one in Ado. The Okun for example are further divided into Yagba, Owe, Oworo, Bunu, Ijumu, and Igbede. However, I feel like sometimes large groupings are helpful because they are more biding and unifying. You are a little correct about Lokoja being a "non-indigineous"(cosmopolitan) town, however we can't forget that the earliest settlers of Lokoja were the Oworo-Okun. Quarters like Felele and Otokiti are Oworo.


There seem to be a little confusion about the people living in Osogbo which I can help clarify. People tend to group Ibolo as Oyo. I understand why. Ibolos were once part of the Oyo empire. During that period, they were grouped under the Ibolo Province. Towns like Osogbo, Offa, Ede, Oyan, Ikirun, Ilobu, Okuku, Ejigbo are all Ibolo. Till today, Offa is regarded as more of a cultural capital than Osogbo. People have to understand that one of the main reasons why Osogbo gets more attention is due to its administrative role which has led to many other Yoruba groups to migrate there. The historical center of Osogbo is still primarily Ibolo though.

Bump.

Insightful.

Swiftgrp:
Bump.

Insightful.

He is not correct about Osogbo. There are Baloguns in Osogbo who are from Ibadan and Iwo that obviously came there during the Ilorin Ibadan war but the town itself is Ijesa. If you want to buy land in Osogbo today, those who will sell it will be Ijesa. Then it is either Osogbo stand alone or go with Ijesa when Nigeria divides. The King is a member of the Ijesa royal family and most of the population have Ijesa ancestry. Any Osogbo family with 200 years history is Ijesa. The old boundary was with Ede and even Ede used to be Ijesa land but they will form their own state

scholes0:
Omo iya mi.... We shouldn't argue to win or vanquish or to emerge looking more knowledgeable than your fellows, but rather to learn more and improve ourselves. That is what I argue for.
Pls, let us share ideas, in that way, we can both learn more.... Till today, the Ekitis still feel cheated, even after state creation, because of the numerous Ekiti communities still not yet in the state, including those of Kwara and Ondo. Just the old Ekiti region of the Old wwestern region was carved into the state. That is why everyone knows the Ekiti are the largest or 2nd largest Yoruba group. The tie is between Ekitis and Oyos.

I think ibadan sub-group are the largest in yoruba land.

scholes0:
So, from what I can deduce, the Oyos are the largest, followed by the Ekitis.

The present Oyo kingdom has 5 LGAs in Oyo state except u are adding the 11 LGAs of Ibadan. Oyo people are presently one of the smallest sub-group in yoruba land.

OVB123:
The present Oyo kingdom has 5 LGAs in Oyo state except u are adding the 11 LGAs of Ibadan. Oyo people are presently one of the smallest sub-group in yoruba land.

Ibadan is part of the ethnic Oyo subgroup