sino:


Bros, what does the title of the thread says?! and which section are we?! If a topic about marriage and who one marries is started in the family section, I wouldn't bother, even if anyone claims there is a lot of benefit in same sex marriage. But we are in the Islamic section, we are guided, we don't just write based on our whims and desires, we have the Qur'an and we have the Sunnah! I asked you a question but you didn't answer, so I'll ask again. Is your cousin part of the prohibited women to marry from the Qur'an?! If cousins are not included in the Qur'an, and we have it in record the Prophet (SAW) and his ahl-l-bayt practiced it, then do you have the right to prohibit it?! Is cousin marriage permissible in Islam or not?! If it is permissible, does it not mean that it is institutionalized in Islam?!

Secondly, tintingz had been adequately answered, I said I do not know what killed the children of the Prophet (SAW), what is certain is that, it was their time to die, those that died young, and the ones that died older... I don't know what answer tintingz is looking for, since he is a researcher, he should go and find out and come back to educate us, since he believes his question has some value to this topic.

Thirdly, people are given the freewill to seek for knowledge and search for the truth. Doubts that are stemmed from ego, pride and false assumptions about the reality would have no positive value to an individual. You need to have intellectual humility/open-mindedness before you can reach true knowledge and appreciate the truth. Asking questions is not the problem, your attitude and manner of questioning as well as your responses speaks volume about you and your state of mind.

@emboldened!

Demmzy15:
You're displaying qualities of someone who's mentally retarded. Imagine asking what killed the children of the Prophet, do you know that a Greek Egyptian Copt(Maria Al Qibtiya) gave birth to a son who also died at infant?

It really pains me when I see people dropping comments without reasoning! Very pathetic!

FriendChoice:


And how does the definition above stop you from Challenging Allah's supremacy ?

tintingz:
it is not a challenge, it is called reasoning.

sino:


Secondly, tintingz had been adequately answered, I said I do not know what killed the children of the Prophet (SAW), what is certain is that, it was their time to die, those that died young, and the ones that died older... I don't know what answer tintingz is looking for, since he is a researcher, he should go and find out and come back to educate us, since he believes his question has some value to this topic.

FriendChoice:


Yeah out of brain reasoning.

tintingz:
He's still calling me a mad person.

Let me educate you about reasoning, you said the Greek-Egyptian copt son died at infant how many, one right? Is there any other infant death of her children, if there is you can mention them. Your logic is weak.

Now reason with this, Charles Darwin 3 three children died at early age due to inbreeding(cousin-cousin marriage), another three suffered a defect. It's clearly shows it is inherited to genes.

Prophet Muhammad (SA) children died at infant except Fatimah(RA), Arabs are known to practice incest even before Islam came to them, it is an Arab culture, now imagine the anomalies genes they must have passed to offspring. Till date Arabs are the highest rate in genetic disorder.

Now ponder on this before you start your bully attitude.

You can see the underlined bah, I really pity people that support you.

So you're saying the Prophet and his offsprings are products of inc'est? Auzubillahi minal Shaitani Rajeem

As the Jesus said: "Get behind me Satan"

Demmzy15:
You can see the underlined bah, I really pity people that support you.

So you're saying the Prophet and his offsprings are products of inc'est? Auzubillahi minal Shaitani Rajeem

As the Jesus said: "Get behind me Satan"

tintingz:
He's still calling me a mad person.

Let me educate you about reasoning, you said the Greek-Egyptian copt son died at infant how many, one right? Is there any other infant death of her children, if there is you can mention them. Your logic is weak.

Now reason with this, Charles Darwin 3 three children died at early age due to inbreeding(cousin-cousin marriage), another three suffered a defect. It's clearly shows it is inherited to genes.

Prophet Muhammad (SA) children died at infant except Fatimah(RA), Arabs are known to practice incest even before Islam came to them, it is an Arab culture, now imagine the anomalies genes they must have passed to offspring. Till date Arabs are the highest rate in genetic disorder.

Now ponder on this before you start your bully attitude.

sino:


You have not presented any fact about the Prophet's (SAW) marriage to his cousin and prove inherited genetic defects, remember, the risk is only higher in first cousins...

Mind you, it wasn't only Fatimah (RA) that didn't die at infant, and the Prophet's wife Khadijah (RA) (that gave birth to most of his children) was a distant cousin (very far apart, in fact, we can even say they are not related). You should do more research before you makeup your assumptions...

tintingz:
The OP himself confirmed, Prophet Muhammad (SA) married one of his cousin. Like have said Arabs are known to practice incest, it is part of their culture, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to tell you there won't be anomalies in many Arabs gene. Even till date it is getting higher.

tintingz:

many of His children died at early age.

tintingz:

Khadija(RA) and Muhammad (SA) are still cousins whether distant or miles away, they are genetic related(Khadija's mother was cousin to Muhammad's mother), you can disagree, that's not my business.

tintingz:
The OP himself confirmed, Prophet Muhammad (SA) married one of his cousin. Like have said Arabs are known to practice incest, it is part of their culture, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to tell you there won't be anomalies in many Arabs gene. Even till date it is getting higher.

many of His children died at early age.

Khadija(RA) and Muhammad (SA) are still cousins whether distant or miles away, they are genetic related(Khadija's mother was cousin to Muhammad's mother), you can disagree, that's not my business.

sino:

Which cousin did the Prophet (SAW) married that gave birth to genetically defective children?! Can you answer?!

So?! 1400 years ago, it was only genetic defects that kill children, no?!

Note, Khadija's mom was a [b]THIRD COUSIN [/b]to the Prophet (SAW)'s mother, that is three generations apart...

Let me help you with a quote from your most favorite site, Wiki:

"The percentage of consanguinity between any two individuals decreases fourfold as the most recent common ancestor recedes one generation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

Now, it is not as if there is no risk in marrying a non relative when it comes to genetic defects, it is only that the risk is higher by 2% for first cousins, and the further apart, the risk becomes same as any individual, and that is if there is a genetic defect in the gene pool.

Now I have proven that the Prophet (SAW) and Khadija (RA) are not within the risk of consanguineous marriage, this has destroyed your assumptions...

vedaxcool:


Interesting so you actually conducted an autopsy to come to your conclusion?

tintingz:
Probably Khadija.


Most of their infant death are caused by genetic defects.


Taah!

Third cousins still share common ancestor, It seems you don't get it, Arabs are full of consanguineous marriage, too much relation marriages producing anomalies genes.

It seems you skip this part:

Repeated consanginous marriages within a group are more problematic. After repeated generations of cousin marriage the actual genetic relationship between two people is closer than the most immediate relationship would suggest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

Now this support my argument. The genes of many Arabs are full of anomalies(autosomal), too much incest practice.

Even tho the percentage of third cousin might decrease but it doesn't rule out that they are not related and not risk of having genetic disorder.

According to Family Tree DNA's figures there is a 90% chance that third cousins will share enough DNA for the relationship to be detected, but there is only a 50% chance that you will share enough DNA with a fourth cousin for the relationship to be identified.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-DNA-do-third-cousins-share

tintingz:
Yes sir, I've their bloods in my lab.

It is a fact that Arabs are the highest genetic disorders in the world.

The Centre for Arab Genomic Studies (CAGS) oversees genetic analyses on the populations of the Arab world. Based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, it indicates that Arab countries have among the highest rates of genetic disorders in the world. Some 906 pathologies are endemic to the Arab states, including thalassaemia, Tourette's syndrome, Wilson's disease, Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease, mitochondrial encephalomyopathies and Niemann-Pick disease.[1][2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Arabs

sino:

We are talking about Prophet Muhammad and Khadijah's mothers being third cousins, not the prophet (SAW) and Khadijah (RA). I am very sure their mothers didn't marry each other, I am lost at what you are trying to prove here...

vedaxcool:


The question is quite simple ... did you conduct an autopsy on the dead body to arrive at your conclusion? A simple Yes or No will suffice. ... I am not asking you on the entire arabs genome autopsy no need hiding behind wikipedia .. .which is not the person being questioned.. I am just asking you simply did you conduct an autopsy on their bodies to arrive your conclusion?

tintingz:
didn't i answered you "Yes sir"?

Oh lemme tell you how I got the ancient fossil. I used my power G.09 super nova full degree time machine to start a gravitatation wave and create a wormhole that took me to time space and travel back to ancient Arabia to get their blood.

vedaxcool:


It is unfortunate you have resorted to lying.... lying in the clear face facts.... may Allah guide you to truth. Reasoning does not equate lying. .. If the premise of your entire argument is based on lying then I am sorry to say you are not Reasoning but being a liar. Even the most knowledgeable scholars put at the end of their opinions Allah knows best in cases where their opinions seems very good or in straight forward matter that is accepting that their knowledge is limited....but in your sad case of lying you should have at least stated that your opinion is simply speculations at best and at worst guess work and that is the point of asking
you whether you undertook an autopsy. ..a knowledgeable person would have said no while an ignoramus would have said Yes because he cannot properly reason. The sad part of this story is that you act like you know things when in fact you simply are poorly informed and have decided to use your poor knowledge to make up claims that have no basis.

Brother Sino this is not about refuting him but asking him to provide valid evidence .... he cannot ... a sensible person would have simply acknowledged that the prophet kids could have died from a range of causes .... because there is no possible way to verify the real causes of their deaths.....But a true believer would have said It is Allah's decree that they die at the time they died because from Allah we come and to him we shall return. .. it is not about the cause but that Allah set their time to die and they died as he willed it. You can never dialogue with someone who willfully lies in the face of clear reality.

tintingz:
That's why I gave you a ridiculous answer to masturbate on and you just did.

vedaxcool:


How intellectual. ...decency demands if you don't have an answer to a question just say I don't. .. rather than lie about it and come back here to retell your posts that all can easily read ... scientists can actually tell you what kill Tuthmosis a man who live far before the Prophet pbuh period so expecting you have real evidence for a claim (an ignorant one as you have come to confess) you seemed so cocksure isn't far fetched ... You are free to argue about a field you do not even qualify to be regarded as a lay man ... but pretending to know what caused the deaths of the prophet pbuh children is taking pretense to the realm of lies... we should be careful for our words because we shall one day account for them.... Brothers here responding to you only did so as a favour to you a non muslim making absurd claims you did about the Prophet pbuh children would have been ignored. May Allah guide you once again and we will pray for you if Allah wills you will recognize the more honourable path and avoid making claims you simply have no clue about.

golpen:
I think we should just quit these arguments already. Remember what the prophet pbuh said about who quits arguments first.

More so, it's evident that someone has seen his own "epic-fail" points and has resulted to stretching the dialogue with ridiculous answers for people to dwell on. That's a better way to unmanly say "I've been wrong, but now I agree and now I get it" and sneak out of the argument. Even his followers have deserted him and you can see shame!

May Allah grant us goodness and guide us all through the right path.

tintingz:
I've proven that third cousins are related which shows that Muhammad (SA) and Khadija(RA) will share some percentage in DNA. And it is problematic when a society are recurrence in consanguineous marraige, What other prove do you want?

vedaxcool:


It is unfortunate you have resorted to lying.... lying in the clear face facts.... may Allah guide you to truth. Reasoning does not equate lying. .. If the premise of your entire argument is based on lying then I am sorry to say you are not Reasoning but being a liar. Even the most knowledgeable scholars put at the end of their opinions Allah knows best in cases where their opinions seems very good or in straight forward matter that is accepting that their knowledge is limited....but in your sad case of lying you should have at least stated that your opinion is simply speculations at best and at worst guess work and that is the point of asking
you whether you undertook an autopsy. ..a knowledgeable person would have said no while an ignoramus would have said Yes because he cannot properly reason. The sad part of this story is that you act like you know things when in fact you simply are poorly informed and have decided to use your poor knowledge to make up claims that have no basis.

Brother Sino this is not about refuting him but asking him to provide valid evidence .... he cannot ... a sensible person would have simply acknowledged that the prophet kids could have died from a range of causes .... because there is no possible way to verify the real causes of their deaths.....But a true believer would have said It is Allah's decree that they die at the time they died because from Allah we come and to him we shall return. .. it is not about the cause but that Allah set their time to die and they died as he willed it. You can never dialogue with someone who willfully lies in the face of clear reality.

golpen:
I think we should just quit these arguments already. Remember what the prophet pbuh said about who quits arguments first.

More so, it's evident that someone has seen his own "epic-fail" points and has resulted to stretching the dialogue with ridiculous answers for people to dwell on. That's a better way to unmanly say "I've been wrong, but now I agree and now I get it" and sneak out of the argument. Even his followers have deserted him and you can see shame!

May Allah grant us goodness and guide us all through the right path.

sino:


You have not proven anything, where is your proof of what killed some of the Prophet's (SAW) children?

You see, when I tell you that you do not know what you are talking about, it would seem that I am insulting you. You had presented a scientific report that we share 98% of our DNA with Chimps on another thread, so sharing DNA isn't an issue here, that is not what we are talking about, we are talking about genes!

Secondly, I had repeated more than once, consanguineous marriages is not and can never be the cause of genetic defects! If you had understood this, you would know that there are risk of genetic defects in non-consanguineous marriages too!

Thirdly, the shared genes (which are where the defects resides) gets reduced with how far apart the blood relatives are. For first cousins, the shared common genes are 12.5% and this is where science had said the risk for inherited birth defect is 2% higher. Now I ask you what percentage of genes would be shared between third cousins from the mother's lineage, before you now go to the Prophet (SAW) and Khadijah (RA)?! http://www.genetics.edu.au/Publications-and-Resources/Genetics-Fact-Sheets/FactSheetConsanguinity

Fourthly, you do not have any evidence of what killed some of the Prophet's children at infant, you only have assumptions, and assumptions are not facts, for the fact that there are indeed other causes of death over 1400 years ago, then without empirical evidences, you cannot know for certain what killed any child at that time.

Fifthly, Using Darwin's marriage to draw correlation with the Prophet (SAW) is fallacious, Darwin and his wife were first cousins, even at that, the death of his children are only speculatively attributed to inbreeding, two out of the three, died as a result of infections, and the last child cause of death is unknown. One of his child had down syndrome, and that is not as a result of inbreeding!

Lastly, using an incomplete information to arrive at a conclusion is fallacious, and you have employed a lot of fallacies on this thread.

tintingz:
Can you show me the autopsy of Adam and Eve and their skin color, can you show me autopsy of Cain and his wife(sister) and weapon he used to kill his brother on top woman? Let's see the "epic fail" and "shame".

My brother vedaxcool wants me to provide autopsy results of some ancient dead people in Arabia, very lame, even sino has never asked this lame question he knows better. Maybe I will also be asking for the fossil and autopsy in every argument, I think that should be the new trend.

sino:


Ameen, Jazakumullah khayran brother.