randomperson:

God creates right motives in us? So giving to the poor because you want to be rewarded by god is the right motive? How about giving because you care about their plight?
Oh... And am on nairaland today because am bored and less busy

Again you miss it and thanks for proving to everyone even to yourself that even boredom is a motive behind an action.

The mere fact that "because" is found in your statement proves MOTIVE. Even Gods reward does not exclude self fulfilment which comes when we make others happy we also get happiness bestowed on us.

The fact that we care for others makes us happy and the cycle continues. This is too elementary really. I am surprised you cannot see it properly.

randomperson:

Am still confused... Do you agree the system is not perfect?

Indeed you are confused because you are asking a question yet asking it as if I alluded to the system not being perfect.

I will leave you to that confusion.

4everGod:


Again you miss it and thanks for proving to everyone even to yourself that even boredom is a motive behind an action.

The mere fact that "because" is found in your statement proves MOTIVE. Even Gods reward does not exclude self fulfilment which comes when we make others happy we also get happiness bestowed on us.

The fact that we care for others makes us happy and the cycle continues. This is too elementary really. I am surprised you cannot see it properly.

If self fulfilment was enough reason... Why did an omniscient god need to use a promise of reward when instructing you to give.

4everGod:


Indeed you are confused because you are asking a question yet asking it as if I alluded to the system not being perfect.

I will leave you to that confusion.

Lolz... So you believe the system is perfect? I need to hear you say it!!

randomperson:

If self fulfilment was enough reason... Why did an omniscient god need to use a promise of reward when instructing you to give.

Isnt self fulfilment a "reward"? If any other reward is attached to self fulfilment like " recognition of ones works" or " some form of monetary or material reward" as a " thank you" bottomline is that it began from ones effort to bring fulfilment to one or another.

randomperson:

Lolz... So you believe the system is perfect? I need to hear you say it!!

Need to hear me say what? read my answer which brought about this your comment I am responding to. My answer is already there so how come you couldnt see it?

Everything is not always black and white... There is grey and cream too.

4everGod:


Isnt self fulfilment a "reward"? If any other reward is attached to self fulfilment like " recognition of ones works" or " some form of monetary or material reward" as a " thank you" bottomline is that it began from ones effort to bring fulfilment to one or another.

If a person has a good paying job... It's possible he is fulfilled at the job but the reason he goes to that job everyday is because of his salary. Now if there was no salary and he still has the same level of commitment to the job, we can say self-fulfilment is his motive... But while collecting salary, he can't claim to be committed because of self-fulfilment
You get?

4everGod:



Need to hear me say what? read my answer which brought about this your comment I am responding to. My answer is already there so how come you couldnt see it?

Everything is not always black and white... There is grey and cream too.

You being diplomatic about this tells me all I need to know .. You can identify the flaws in the system but don't want to admit them because that will not be Christian- like....

randomperson:

You being diplomatic about this tells me all I need to know .. You can identify the flaws in the system but don't want to admit them because that will not be Christian- like....

Wrong!

Your predictable inability to see obvious answers is worrisome especially when you are expecting kindergarten responses even though you claim to be of high intellect is indeed troubling.

randomperson:

If a person has a good paying job... It's possible he is fulfilled at the job but the reason he goes to that job everyday is because of his salary. Now if there was no salary and he still has the same level of commitment to the job, we can say self-fulfilment is his motive... But while collecting salary, he can't claim to be committed because of self-fulfilment
You get?

More confusion emanating from you.

The money is simply an additional reward for being fulfilled. Fulfilment makes you stick to the job through thick or thing but when there is no fulfilment but monetary gains you see a lot of people resigning.

Emphasis has always been that YOU LOVE WHAT YOU DO first. Its not about the money. Your passion would bring the monetary reward as desired.

Fulfilment is never isolated. it always attracts extra reward beyond self.

Catholic Study Bible

John 3:14-21

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.

I will remain with this sweet abuser.

randomperson:

Another stupid comment!
Where a person creates a system that is riddled with injustice, people challenge it until it's changed... There was a time slavery was allowed in the rules, it was challenged until it was abolished...
But your god who claims to be all loving and all knowing and intelligent, creates a system with the kinds of flaws? That is a logical impossibility

Your case is the popular 'my people perish for lack of knowledge'
God created a system and put His image being - man in it to have dominion..Man corrupted himself and God redeemed man back upon mans choice.
The system had no flaws, man corrupted it!
Take this: God didnt create the earth to have dominion, He has Heaven as His dwelling place...He created earth for man's dominion...The inconsistent result you see is Man's effort without God!
God only has placed laws and principles upon which man would have dominion...You go beyond it, He shows up!
If you want to enjoy the earth, search the scriptures, the secret is there!
If I asked you, you sure will blame God for abortions, drug addictions, murder..
Slavery wasnt abolished, it only evolved!
What is slavery? You are always a slave without Christ! Freedom is in Christ!

Amhappy:
Catholic Study Bible

John 3:14-21

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.

I will remain with this sweet abuser.

I remain with Him too!
Did the devil hear that? He has failed!
We aint deterred, we remain with Him!!

randomperson:

Geez... Can't you reason? A brilliant doctor with potential leaves his developed country and moves to a small community in Namibia to help them with TB... which fame does he have? If he stayed back in his country, he could become a rich doctor with a lot of patients and be famous... But he prefers to help a small community that no one pays attention to... So he left fame at home to go and look for smaller fame...
Guy... You no try at all

Im sorry but you dont reason like an intelligent man!
You used 'could' - doesnt that infer some possibility.
So tell me the renowned doctors and others that were famous before they came to Africa...Wasnt it the African Project the cause of their fame?
Why has Ben Carson and the others not come down to Africa to help also and lets see how far they go?
Tell me just one renowned man that came to Africa to help...If you cant produce one, you have failed!

enshy:

Your case is the popular 'my people perish for lack of knowledge'
God created a system and put His image being - man in it to have dominion..Man corrupted himself and God redeemed man back upon mans choice.
The system had no flaws, man corrupted it!
Take this: God didnt create the earth to have dominion, He has Heaven as His dwelling place...He created earth for man's dominion...The inconsistent result you see is Man's effort without God!
God only has placed laws and principles upon which man would have dominion...You go beyond it, He shows up!
If you want to enjoy the earth, search the scriptures, the secret is there!
If I asked you, you sure will blame God for abortions, drug addictions, murder..
Slavery wasnt abolished, it only evolved!
What is slavery? You are always a slave without Christ! Freedom is in Christ!

your arguments are always circular

Pastafarian:

your arguments are always circular

I hope you aint seeking attention! Pls step aside!! Your FSM is for you and you alone...Ive been seeing you around.

4everGod:


Wrong!

Your predictable inability to see obvious answers is worrisome especially when you are expecting kindergarten responses even though you claim to be of high intellect is indeed troubling.

Keep evading a simple yes or no question... It's understandable tho'... None of the choices are palatable for you but am happy even you can see the flaws in that system

4everGod:



More confusion emanating from you.

The money is simply an additional reward for being fulfilled. Fulfilment makes you stick to the job through thick or thing but when there is no fulfilment but monetary gains you see a lot of people resigning.

Emphasis has always been that YOU LOVE WHAT YOU DO first. Its not about the money. Your passion would bring the monetary reward as desired.

Fulfilment is never isolated. it always attracts extra reward beyond self.

Are you kidding me? A person who is self fulfilled at a job but does not get paid for three years, will continue? Ever if he has a better option that he is not fulfilled at?
You're basically saying a person who has the option of a job that pays only #5 thousand per month that he's fulfilled at will choose that job over a job he's not fulfilled at but pays #300 thousand per month...
The force is strong in you

enshy:

Your case is the popular 'my people perish for lack of knowledge'
God created a system and put His image being - man in it to have dominion..Man corrupted himself and God redeemed man back upon mans choice.
The system had no flaws, man corrupted it!
Take this: God didnt create the earth to have dominion, He has Heaven as His dwelling place...He created earth for man's dominion...The inconsistent result you see is Man's effort without God!
God only has placed laws and principles upon which man would have dominion...You go beyond it, He shows up!
If you want to enjoy the earth, search the scriptures, the secret is there!
If I asked you, you sure will blame God for abortions, drug addictions, murder..
Slavery wasnt abolished, it only evolved!
What is slavery? You are always a slave without Christ! Freedom is in Christ!

You just typed nonsense up there... Apologetic acrobatics that has no intellectual value whatsoever...
Lemme ask you, is the system flawed or perfect?

enshy:

Im sorry but you dont reason like an intelligent man!
You used 'could' - doesnt that infer some possibility.
So tell me the renowned doctors and others that were famous before they came to Africa...Wasnt it the African Project the cause of their fame?
Why has Ben Carson and the others not come down to Africa to help also and lets see how far they go?
Tell me just one renowned man that came to Africa to help...If you cant produce one, you have failed!

You just keep disappointing me...
Now answer this question.. Is it every doctor that comes to Africa that becomes famous?

Pastafarian:

your arguments are always circular

FSM is on his case.

randomperson:

Keep evading a simple yes or no question... It's understandable tho'... None of the choices are palatable for you but am happy even you can see the flaws in that system

I wonder why you have a knack for trying to force someone to agree with your obviously wrong point of view.

Where and how and when did I mention anything like a "flaw"? Gods system is never flawed. You on the other hand are due to your terribly limited understanding of the scope of it.

4everGod:



I wonder why you have a knack for trying to force someone to agree with your obviously wrong point of view.

Where and how and when did I mention anything like a "flaw"? Gods system is never flawed. You on the other hand are due to your terribly limited understanding of the scope of it.

If am flawed and am created by god. Doesn't that mean god didn't do a perfect job??

randomperson:


If am flawed and am created by god. Doesn't that mean god didn't do a perfect job??

He didn't have to....otherwise you wouldn't have any need for a "will".

Are you a robot?

randomperson:


If am flawed and am created by god. Doesn't that mean god didn't do a perfect job??

checkmate

randomperson:


If am flawed and am created by god. Doesn't that mean god didn't do a perfect job??

God does not take pride in zombies. if he had made you perfect then where is the individual beauty and personality? Where is the appreciation? Where is the appraisal?

Perfection talks about everyone being the same, looking the same, talking the same, thinking the same, dressing up the same, having the same complexion, having the same of everything.

Again I repeat, God does not take pride in Zombies.

Of all the many differences I just listed up there free will stands out as that which would make one deliberately choose to be perfect regardless of gender, colour or looks as perfection is first from within same with will. Your imperfections werr deliberately put in you in order to enable you observe them and then choose (will) yourself to change and strive for perfection.

There is perfection in imperfection. Wake up ad smell the coffee.

4everGod:


God does not take pride in zombies. if he had made you perfect then where is the individual beauty and personality? Where is the appreciation? Where is the appraisal?

Perfection talks about everyone being the same, looking the same, talking the same, thinking the same, dressing up the same, having the same complexion, having the same of everything.

Again I repeat, God does not take pride in Zombies.

Of all the many differences I just listed up there free will stands out as that which would make one deliberately choose to be perfect regardless of gender, colour or looks as perfection is first from within same with will. Your imperfections werr deliberately put in you in order to enable you observe them and then choose (will) yourself to change and strive for perfection.

There is perfection in imperfection. Wake up ad smell the coffee.

So god intentionally created me imperfect.... So if God created the imperfections in me. Is he not really at fault when I manifest these imperfections?
Again, you say god gave me freewill, but my existence is not my choice. There was no freewill involved in that. I didn't have a say in whether he should create me or not.
Furthermore, you've admitted that God is capable of creating imperfections. So, why do you refuse to admit that the system of heaven and hellfire is imperfect?

And perfection doesn't necessarily mean everyone being the same... We can be different and perfect. Uniformity is not perfection, perfection is not uniformity!


Lastly you're saying god had to choose between making me perfect and heaven- certain on one hand and making me imperfect and hell-potential on the other hand... He chose to make me liable to hell at the expense of assurance of heaven... And you claim he loves me

Amhappy:
Catholic Study Bible

John 3:14-21

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.

I will remain with this sweet abuser

I don't know how these verses relate to the matter on ground

---

Stockholm's syndrome @the highlighted.

4everGod:


God does not take pride in zombies. if he had made you perfect then where is the individual beauty and personality? Where is the appreciation? Where is the appraisal?

Perfection talks about everyone being the same, looking the same, talking the same, thinking the same, dressing up the same, having the same complexion, having the same of everything.

Again I repeat, God does not take pride in Zombies

Of all the many differences I just listed up there free will stands out as that which would make one deliberately choose to be perfect regardless of gender, colour or looks as perfection is first from within same with will. Your imperfections werr deliberately put in you in order to enable you observe them and then choose (will) yourself to change and strive for perfection.

There is perfection in imperfection. Wake up ad smell the coffee.

Will these imperfections be in Heaven or will everybody there be zombies?

randomperson:

So god intentionally created me imperfect.... So if God created the imperfections in me. Is he not really at fault when I manifest these imperfections?
Again, you say god gave me freewill, but my existence is not my choice. There was no freewill involved in that. I didn't have a say in whether he should create me or not.
Furthermore, you've admitted that God is capable of creating imperfections. So, why do you refuse to admit that the system of heaven and hellfire is imperfect?

And perfection doesn't necessarily mean everyone being the same... We can be different and perfect. Uniformity is not perfection, perfection is not uniformity!


Lastly you're saying god had to choose between making me perfect and heaven- certain on one hand and making me imperfect and hell-potential on the other hand... He chose to make me liable to hell at the expense of assurance of heaven... And you claim he loves me

FYI perfection is absolute and is never perfect when slight differences exist. Perfection in this case means to be all the same, act the same, look the same, think the same, everything the same.

We cannot all look different externally yet claim to be in perfection. Since to you God does not exist this means spirituality does not exist which means your focus about perfection is on the outward. Gods focus is on the inward and this is where you keep missing it.

heaven and hellfire have nothing to do with what this is about. Bottom line they do not exist to you so how practical would it be discussing it with you when there is no foundation of it in you.

Bro. Enshy,
Thanks

4everGod:



FYI perfection is absolute and is never perfect when slight differences exist. Perfection in this case it to be all the same, act the same, looks the same, think the same, everything the same.

We cannot all look different externally yet claim to be in perfection. Since to you God does not exist this means spirituality does not exist which means your focus about perfection is on the outward. Gods focus is on the inward and this is where you keep missing it.

heaven and hellfire have nothing to do with what this is about. Bottom line they do not exist to you so how practical would it be discussing it with you when there is no foundation of it in you.

You didn't answer any of my questions... Not one of them.
And am discussing heaven and hell with you to evaluate be concept and see it's inconsistencies