neocortex:
unless
you want us to believe that the whites miraculously became intelligent in the
17th century, the argument of a superior intelligence is not sound [...]
CC Trudax, dalaman

Very sound analysis!

Trudax:
It seems you people have a hard time comprehending what "on the average" means.

Mehn, I am out of here. Keep consoling yourselves all you want with your sentimental, unobjective responses and sharing of likes among yourselves. I am done with this discussion. I reside in Nigeria, most of you don't. Intelligence doesn't only reflect in academic performance, it reflects in the way people think and behave. And majority of Nigerians don't think and behave like intelligent people. This is a fact. And this is why we are lagging behind in development.

Have a nice day or night, or whatever.

Its that simple. Majority of Nigerians don't Iive and act like intelligent people.

We should argue not to win but to learn. Like someone mentioned, you pleaded for contributions but it appears now that you insult these same people. The Nigerian situation is sickening to be honest, especially the more one knows about scientific advancements the more sad. Personally, I can hardly even have a conversation with supposed graduates even those with advanced degrees. Curse be to these abrahamic religions and their nonsense. I am learning not to care at all, to stay quiet and laugh at this comedy, but how can I laugh at my own people?

Trudax:
You all can lie to yourselves all you want. You can blame the environment and blame the culture, but isn't the culture and the environment a product of the thinking, easily avoidable mistakes and structural errors of sub-saharan Africans? And I am tired of this whole language game about race. Sub-saharan Africans, the people who currently dominate the parts of western, southern and eastern Africa, are intellectually inferior to people everywhere else, on the average. And the kind of intelligence I am referring to is the ability to think critically and objectively, to decipher complex issues and to reason abstractly. This is my opinion and I'll keep on having this opinion until I find evidence that says otherwise. But right now, I am more than convinced. You all can keep yanning bullshit, until one world power decides to perform a holocaust on black people, then maybe you'll change their mind with your argument that race doesn't exist. Nonsense!

It seems you desperately want to be right than objective. Nurture and environment plays a key role in developing the ability to, in your words, "to think critically and objectively, to decipher complex issues and to reason abstractly" Ideas don't come in out of nothing. Einstein didn't just wake and had a Eureka moment with relativity. Although, he couldn't get a faculty position, he worked as a clerk that read physics publications. Plato, Archimedes, Euclid, Boltzmann, James Clerk Maxwell, Darwin etc these guys were constantly learning until they found something. Such reasoning is developed more so than one being born with it. There are indeed geniuses but then again training is required. Also, discoveries have been made by not-so-smart people. The western societies have a scientific history that dates centuries BC and science never makes sense until the cumulative story and effect is seen. Sub-saharan Africa on the other hand have no history of such or they just weren't as sophisticated.

We may not be intellectually inferior, although it is really difficult trying to convince anyone along that line, but we are not serious. We don't even know how bad it is, we don't see it as a national emergency. To be fair, Indians have a scientific history as well with people like Raman, Chandrasekhar, and even recent V Ramakrishnan so it could also play a key role for motivation. Children being impressionable and mostly imitate what they see around them and hold on the values passed on to them by their parents. Black people have showed to be able to perform as good as other races, only but a few.

Other parts of the world are progressing at lightening speed, and in meaningful areas, while sub-saharan Africa is regressing in the same speed. If we had as many intelligent people as they had, and at the same statistical average as them, why aren't we progressing as they are? Is information a problem? Anyone can get as much information as he wants today. Why cant we utilize the mountain of information available to move our country forward? Why can't we rule ourselves? How is that so hard to do? Why can't we build sustainable and progressive political structures? Why do we have lots of greedy and unintelligent people in positions of power? Why do we still have a very pious majority, despite how obviously flawed and harmful religious beliefs are? Why are we still mired in this quick sand of tribal bigotry? If we actually had lots of intelligent people, then it would follow that we would be less tribalistic, but the reverse is the case.

Its much more complex than you think. Humans, like other animals would take the path of least resistance. In Nigeria today, being honest and upright, sadly being intelligent in literary endeavours is going against the tide. Trying to fix Nigeria is going against a Tsunami. People might kill you first before looking at the evidence, or no time to even look at the evidence Jesus/Jehovah is coming soon so who cares about the dying world, he would save just me and my family. Whenever things get worse, it is interpreted as signs of end-time and people don't even see how such beliefs are keeping us in bondage

it doesn't take one to be a genius to let go of culturally entrenched prejudices and stereotypes.

This right here, is much harder than you think. Just look at that troll, how he thinks he knows and god is speaking to him. It is long breaking free from indoctrination.

It's only when we evaluate a situation with honesty and objectivity, that we can recognize the problems underlying that situation and mitigate them.

Me, na siddon look I dey. I would raise my children right, and encourage curiosity in them. My only effort currently would be to push for a referendum and hope we get it because to a system which has the least educated with secondary school cutoffs as low as 2/600 in political positions and the civil service, certainly won't see the need for education and has no future. I was a teacher during my national service year and I learnt students don't fail and repeat a class in government schools. In SS3 class only a handful of students could write, but they all want to be doctors and engineers and worse they are supported by their parents and teachers. Nigeria is truly a disgrace to independent nations. Let me end here.

Corruption is the source of all our problem! take away corruption from every soul in Nigeria that's when you would know how Great this country is, take it away from all Africans and you would know How great and How really intellectual we are asAfricans

LoJ:

I think your analysis of this guy's psyche is at least very close to the truth. People project unto others their own inner struggles.

Curiously, where I live, they have utter respect for black students. Long gone are the days where black meant stupid good for nothing mandingos. I do not count the number of Lecturers who told me, you people are very intelligent.

Here in Germany, the only high school diploma from a non western country that is accepted by all public universities, is from an african country. They don't even accept chinese high school diplomas unconditionnally. They have to write a test before or attend the "Studienkolleg".

One my best Lecturers was a nigerian. Amidst all the german and american "Dozenten" he was just the best. Students would attend his Lectures hours long, because he is very good. Even though He decided to go and work in another state, the University pleaded that he should travel and teach on saturdays. It was unprecedented, and it may still be.

What is this guy talking about? There are some trolls everywhere, in every country. But Africa is full of resources. Africa faces challenges, but it should never be a reason to be ashamed of yourself or your own people.

During my college years the head teacher was a Nigerian. He was so good we all wanted him too take us on all our courses. My doctor is also a back man( Nigerian), I have used him for at least the past 13 years now. Talk of train drivers, pilots,you see black taking major roles and we must consider the fact that it wasn't our primary way of life.

Africa is full of resources and raw potential. Personally I see the people of Africa as the most important resources of our nations. As we project toward the right direction, despite lots of set backs, we are bound to be excellence. We have produce one of the most beautiful minds to the world, talk of Chinwe Achebe, Wale Soyinka etc. The local councellor of my residence is also black( a Nigerian),a great guy I am really proud of. My last visit to the U.S, I met amazing blacks from Africa doing great, even in Nigeria we are doing great, except " maybe"in the OP's family of course.Those with inferiority complex in their heritage will feel useless to this planet. Everyone is intelligent in their own ways and can adapt when things change. Together we are called the human race.

Interesting arguments.....

neocortex:
I see many posters oversimplifying a very complex phenomenon, unless
you want us to believe that the whites miraculously became intelligent in the
17th century, the argument of a superior intelligence is not sound.

As any informed person knows, knowledge is not
created out of vacuum but adapted from previous
knowledge.

Before the renaissance and the industrial revolution, the Europeans were
largely in the dark ages of superstition and they are not different from
every other civilization surrounding them.

The game changer for the Europeans was the translation
of middle eastern and asian scholarly work into Latin, it is at this
point that some thinkers recognised the potential of scientific enquiry,
and put great effort into further research and disseminating knowledge
to the society.

So, two things awakened the Europeans, publicly accessible
knowledge, war and stability.

The romans invaded Britain around the first century, destroyed
much of the country, kill their leaders and installed puppets.
Guess what, the Brits didn't wallow in self pity, they didn't
conclude they were less intelligent due to the romans advanced
technology. Instead, they focus their attention on how to move
forward and 400 years later they rose from the ashes.

This is the attitude people that want to move forward need to
have. Expending energy on racial superiority debate will only lead to
self-fulfilling prophecy.

What baffles me most among blacks that are intellectually
above average in knowledge and exposure is that they often
focus on the wrong questions and draw faulty conclusions.

How does the topic of this thread help anyone ?
Will wallowing in self-condemnation and pity move us forward ?

The right question to ask is "how do we move forward as a people ?"
What sacrifice are we to make ?

Backward-deriving of superior intelligence from modern invention
is a naive approach to this discourse.
Invention of the internet does not prove that USA has superior
intelligence any more than the invention of gun powder by the
chinese, it only shows that America was able to harness its
energy into the invention, any other inference is purely imaginative thinking.

The misconception that the whites found life easy due to their
superior intelligence must be dispelled. If you don’t pay the
price, you can’t reap the reward.

Finally, I see many people conflating creativity and intelligence, they
are different and neither do they depend on each other. Recent
research has shown that threshold intelligence is not required for
creativity.

CC Trudax, dalaman

I completely disagree that intelligence and creativity don't go together. They do.

Nobody is saying the whites had it easy. In fact they were just like us at a time doing everything that we are doing. Practising feudalism, unable to lead themselves properly, denying the weakest of them rights and privileges, afraid of change and unable to create a functioning system.

Over time they were able to use their intelligence to know that the way they were living wasn't beneficial to them as a people and tey decided fashion out a functional system out of the old one they had. We have refused to do that. We have refused to change, we have refused to drop the aspects of our culture and traditions that are holding us from making progress as a people. We have refused to use our brains and come together to solve our problems. Do intelligent people practice the stupid tribalism and feudalism we practice? Do intelligent people keep holding unto a system that is holding them back without dropping them? If we are equally as intelligent then we should be able to create functional societies like them period. We have failed in leading ourselves, failed in creating systems that will solve our problems, failed in doing away with our old ways that has stopped us from progressing. It takes a certain level of intelligence to acknowledge that you have problems and then look for ways to solve them. We have refused to demonstrate that we have that ability to solve our problems.

Deicide:
Corruption is the source of all our problem! take away corruption from every soul in Nigeria that's when you would know how Great this country is, take it away from all Africans and you would know How great and How really intellectual we are asAfricans

You think we are more corrupt than the whites? They had to acknowledge that it is a problem that will not allow them move forward. They built institutions and systems that helped them solve their problems and move forward while we are still here crying baa baa baaa, meh meh meh.

dalaman:


You think we are less corrupt than the whites? They had to acknowledge that it is a problem that will not allow them move forward. They built institutions and systems that helped them solve their problems and move forward while we are still here crying baa baa baaa, meh meh meh.

No, i think we are more corrupt than the Whites, now am not saying the whites aren't corrupt but compared to Africa it's insignificant but they are the ones that actually thought us to be corrupt all this happened during colonialism which is not entirely our fault.

ifenes:

You cannot solve problems like them because our societies( typical African societies) are shaped differently. [b]We are naturally more in tune with nature and preservation of the planet. The white man is all about survival and destruction. I don't think that itself is intelligence. You see the animals, fish sticking to their natural habitat, not because they are less intelligent, but for the fact that they cannot be bothered to be the jack of all trades and masters of none

We know technology is a good thing just as it can also be a huge curse. How has the white man solved his problems so far? Look at world war 1 and 2, these guys almost eliminated themselves due to power sruggles. Was that the right solutions to conflict. Perhaps Africans have learned and realised the need for us to enjoy the planet without causing ourselves unnecessary headaches with technology.

It's been said that the planet itself had been desolated about 6 times with technology. Could we be staying out of it due to a knowledge we ones had? Could that be the reason we rather watch the over- zealous white babies build atomic bombs capable of destroying the planet 4 times? What intelligence comes from having a toxic weapon that can destroy the entire human race.

Intelligence shouldn't be interpreted alone in developing terrific scientific gadget. I think intelligent should be understand the way we could put our minds to work on relevant stuff

How come these so called superior race haven't figured out how to replicate the pyramids built by the ancient ( most likely blacks). The White man is not helping anyone by building technology but instead is making himself a slave to it. Are we better if using a calculator or high developed retentive memory? Time will tell. To me they haven't solved anything.

Of course they had to be organised because they are the ones without resources. The predators are often the ones to carve out means to hunt. What eventually happens to super- predators? Nature makes them go extinct.[/b]

You live in Europe and you have the nerve to spew this nonsense You are such a doofus. Unintelligent mo.ron. Why don't you go live in tune with nature in Nigeria. No wonder you were just defending Nigeria like an insecure troll. You have no experience in the country today. You and the other troll are not even worth mentions. People like you are the true enemies of the black man. Id!ot uses a smartphone and the internet you speak about getting in tune with nature. You even ask how has the white man solved his problem. Such buffoonery!

ifenes:

During my college years the head teacher was a Nigerian. He was so good we all wanted him too take us on all our courses. My doctor is also a back man( Nigerian), I have used him for at least the past 13 years now. Talk of train drivers, pilots,you see black taking major roles and we must consider the fact that it wasn't our primary way of life.

Africa is full of resources and raw potential. Personally I see the people of Africa as the most important resources of our nations. As we project toward the right direction, despite lots of set backs, we are bound to be excellence. We have produce one of the most beautiful minds to the world, talk of Chinwe Achebe, Wale Soyinka etc. The local councellor of my residence is also black( a Nigerian),a great guy I am really proud of. My last visit to the U.S, I met amazing blacks from Africa doing great, even in Nigeria we are doing great, except " maybe"in the OP's family of course.Those with inferiority complex in their heritage will feel useless to this planet. Everyone is intelligent in their own ways and can adapt when things change. Together we are called the human race.

You are the one with inferiority complex. You cannot even grasp the topic. 'Everyone is intelligent in their own ways' is usually what underachievers with inferiority complex say when they meet intelligent people.

TheEminentLaity:


You live in Europe and you have the nerve to spew this nonsense You are such a doofus. Unintelligent mo.ron. Why don't you go live in tune with nature in Nigeria. No wonder you were just defending Nigeria like an insecure troll. You have no experience in the country today. You and the other troll are not even worth mentions. People like you are the true enemies of the black man. Id!ot uses a smartphone and the internet you speak about getting in tune with nature. You even ask how has the white man solved his problem. Such buffoonery!


You are the one with inferiority complex. You cannot even grasp the topic. 'Everyone is intelligent in their own ways' is usually what underachievers with inferiority complex say when they meet intelligent people.

Oga Easy

SirWere:
Interesting arguments.....

Your contribution is missing

Deicide:
Corruption is the source of all our problem! take away corruption from every soul in Nigeria that's when you would know how Great this country is, take it away from all Africans and you would know How great and How really intellectual we are asAfricans

Sai Buharia.

onyenze123:


Sai Buharia.

Lol he is fighting a War he can't win

ifenes:


During my college years the head teacher was a Nigerian. He was so good we all wanted him too take us on all our courses. My doctor is also a back man( Nigerian), I have used him for at least the past 13 years now. Talk of train drivers, pilots,you see black taking major roles and we must consider the fact that it wasn't our primary way of life.

Africa is full of resources and raw potential. Personally I see the people of Africa as the most important resources of our nations. As we project toward the right direction, despite lots of set backs, we are bound to be excellence. We have produce one of the most beautiful minds to the world, talk of Chinwe Achebe, Wale Soyinka etc. The local councellor of my residence is also black( a Nigerian),a great guy I am really proud of. My last visit to the U.S, I met amazing blacks from Africa doing great, even in Nigeria we are doing great, except " maybe"in the OP's family of course.Those with inferiority complex in their heritage will feel useless to this planet. Everyone is intelligent in their own ways and can adapt when things change. Together we are called the human race.

Africa is full of resources and raw potential.

Do you know the GDP of California, a single state in US is bigger than Africa?

What is Africa doing with the resources and raw potentials?

I am sorry to say this. Our civilization/race in general is a disappointment to the human race. You have these resources, yet power supply is epileptic. Transportation Network/system zero, Food Security Nil, Health Sector dilapidated, Education Sector Century aback, Security Poor... and we are intelligent?

Can any country in Sub Sahara Africa host FIFA world Cup / Olympics?

How are we relevant in the global equation apart from oil? we don't even refine it here. we export it and bring in the imported product and we are intelligent?

Let's get real here and stop being emotional and sentimental.

onyenze123:


Your contribution is missing

I'm currently on a very crappy android with touch problems, so......


The argument in itself seems to have been resolved. Whilst West-Africa is no doubt an eyesore and seems to have no progressive works, its mainly as a result of cultural and prevailing religious beliefs, not "race".



A good example, ironically would be the Asian countries and their path to national self development. Lengthy readings on these nations gives me hope about the progress of this continent



I understand the OPs frustration however. Our society just seems rooted in anti-curiousity and promotes blind obedience. I can't count the number of times teachers, supposed custodians of knowledge have asked students to " swallow it like that"!!




Imagine the whole V.C of a "great" university asking you to pray against "witchcraft".






So I understand the OP

TheEminentLaity:


You live in Europe and you have the nerve to spew this nonsense You are such a doofus. Unintelligent mo.ron. Why don't you go live in tune with nature in Nigeria. No wonder you were just defending Nigeria like an insecure troll. You have no experience in the country today. You and the other troll are not even worth mentions. People like you are the true enemies of the black man. Id!ot uses a smartphone and the internet you speak about getting in tune with nature. You even ask how has the white man solved his problem. Such buffoonery!


You are the one with inferiority complex. You cannot even grasp the topic. 'Everyone is intelligent in their own ways' is usually what underachievers with inferiority complex say when they meet intelligent people.

Thanks for that Mr. Is that all? I see a different Nigeria to you, yours is dark mine is shinning and bright. Why use different accounts tho? I may be an id!ot , yet proud of my people. Your opinion is short sighted, shouldn't be taken serious. Like I said, love yourself. I happen to visit Nigeria a lot and I'm yet to meet people who reason like you....that's the reality I have chosen to experience.

I think this discussion is pointless. The OP should learn how to control his emotions and manners when it comes to discussions. Stop cursing at people who have different opinions, it's not a civilised way to get people's opinion. It's got nothing to do with intelligence but exposure. And for the guy calling others morons and id!ots, that's childish. I'm not affected with how/ what you think about me. You probably called me what you feel about yourself. I'm out of here!

While I do not at all think that intelligence is influenced by race at the genetic level, some experiences do leave me wondering. Growing up, most of my classmates and friends always considered me the brilliant or "intelligent" one even if most of them didn't know what my academic records were like. I even got nicknamed "prof" because my vocabulary was rather extensive compared with most of my peers. Sometimes they would ask where I learn the words I use and I reply, "I read". And yes, I read (and still read) a lot and always found it weird that most of my peers didn't and don't read as much. Most times I find it rather difficult to have conversations with people because I would find myself having to explain the meaning of some words I use and that is, quite frankly, rather stressful, especially when they can just read too and expand their vocabulary. Some of these people performed better than I did academically, for the record, but when it comes to conversations especially on abstract, complex or conceptual topics, they just couldn't/can't keep up. It's always refreshing to converse intelligently with someone and they can grasp the meanings of words and expressions you use without having to backtrack whenever something you say leaves them confused.

However, I realize it's not something peculiar to us SubSaharan Africans. Even in Europe, America and Asia, there are those considered to be smarter, more widely read and have a deeper understanding about the world and the way it works, which partly leads me to conclude that the difference in intelligence and creativity between us and our Asian and Caucasian siblings is not genetic. I think one of the OP's concerns though is that even amongst those considered to be a cut above the rest here SubSaharan Africa, there seems to be nothing to show for their apparent intellectual advantage over everyone else. On that, well, there are a few factors I can think of but won't go into. I'll just leave it at that we're not intellectually inferior to anyone, at least at the genetic level.

Deicide:
Corruption is the source of all our problem! take away corruption from every soul in Nigeria that's when you would know how Great this country is, take it away from all Africans and you would know How great and How really intellectual we are asAfricans

Lol, I agree that corruption is a serious problem but it's not all there is to our problems. Let's be real, we have a culture that stunts or even negates curiosity, change, creativity and talent/intelligence. We are taught to conform, conform, conform. Don't question, don't investigate. Just believe. This culture is clearly not helping us yet we are hanging on to it like our very lives depend on it. We magnify superstition at the expense of intelligent inquiry. Even if we get rid of corruption, we'll be a good society, not necessarily a developed or advanced one.

SirWere:
I'm currently on a very crappy android with touch problems, so......


The argument in itself seems to have been resolved. Whilst West-Africa is no doubt an eyesore and seems to have no progressive works, its mainly as a result of cultural and prevailing religious beliefs, not "race".



A good example, ironically would be the Asian countries and their path to national self development. Lengthy readings on these nations gives me hope about the progress of this continent



I understand the OPs frustration however. Our society just seems rooted in anti-curiousity and promotes blind obedience. I can't count the number of times teachers, supposed custodians of knowledge have asked students to " swallow it like that"!!




Imagine the whole V.C of a "great" university asking you to pray against "witchcraft".






So I understand the OP

that is just it. The skin color or genetics is not the problem. It is very evident that the black man has the capacity for creativity and high intellectuallism. Now where did all these new age intellect start from.
Those who read and know history would know that the europeans have the Greeks to thank for the modern age intellectuallism. When I say Greeks, I mean the great Greek philosophers. I mean the Aristotles, pluto, Socrates and their students. Without philosophy there is no modern age intellectuallism, we as a specie cannot expand the scope of our reasoning beyond primitive survival.
Africa lacked philosophers who could challenge our dark age life philosophies. We believe so much in destiny and the will of god. We as a race could not adventure beyond the "provisions of the gods". Adventure, the will to conquer is the reason for the development of other countries dominated by other races.
Europe had a will to conquer the world. This lead the the building of modern ships that could travel far, research in medicine due to deseases they encountered in their voyages and the diseases they infected other people with. Adventure was the reason they developed.
Japan. A queit fishing island is one of the most technologically advanced countries today. It is due to a desire to conquer.
China prides themselves not in wealth, but in competetion. A very competitive country. It has become an asian culture to mount pressure on their children to excel academically. The japanese and chinese children all are under strict and compulsory mandate to be excellent in all they do. The academic training is rigurous and pushes them to their limits. Sports? They push them to their limits at a very early age. They are on a competitive fire.
Africa? Lol. A continent of mediocres people who see no competition and have no thirst to conquer the world. You know what we want to conquer? Our families, our little communities. We want to be local champions...


Take a look at this thread, how many people are even interested in a philosophycal discuss here? They see those of us contributing as jobless and stvpid. You know why? The average black man would ask you "how does that bring food to my table?"

The capacity is there, but our culture and priority as a people is our bane.

Cc. Dalaman, ifeness

ifenes:

Thanks for that Mr. Is that all? I see a different Nigeria to you, yours is dark mine is shinning and bright. Why use different accounts tho? I may be an id!ot , yet proud of my people. Your opinion is short sighted, shouldn't be taken serious. Like I said, love yourself. I happen to visit Nigeria a lot and I'm yet to meet people who reason like you....that's the reality I have chosen to experience.

You see why I question your intelligence? How does 'the reality you choose to experience change the statistics?' You have no knowledge of probability and cognitive biases, yet you spew nonsense about science and technology and education. Bringing up new age crap as a contribution to a sensible discourse I lived, grew up and worked in Nigeria, and I am currently in the frontline of science, I have publications to my name, and I work with some of the leading scholars in the world within my area in the sciences. My family is in Nigeria, so I don't just visit Nigeria to get in tune with nature, I have stakes in Nigeria. I'm in Nigeria at the moment, even.

The injustice and lackadaisical attitude towards any meaningful endeavour is one of the worst in the world.
Months ago my cousin was very sick, had fluid retention with swollen limbs, when he was taken to the one of the major state hospitals, after supposed tests, he was asked to go to church. Doctors now refer patients to church. Of course, he tried those pentecostal fraudsters for healing but he learnt the hard way.

Last year, my uncle was kidnapped and almost killed. What did the police do even after we paid them? They bought drinks. What did wrong the man do but leave Canada as an experienced Surgeon to set up a hospital, one of its kind in the State that even does free procedures for old people. These are just some of the few horrible personal experiences and I know how much worse it is because we are far from average, how much worse would it be for poor people. Or how my case in court about conflict of interest for trying to set up a science institute for young is being adjourned for almost 2 years now.

Go to church, people dedicate babies all the time, almost 8 out of 10 would give testimonies of how the doctor said they wouldn't make it before 'god intervened' Childbirth

It might be convenient for you to live in your cocoon but statistics don't change because you feel good, you live in a big and secure house or that you have superiority complex, it only does when people do something about it. And the first step is to acknowledge that something is not right by objective analyses. See a bright Nigeria all you want but it doesn't change jack about reality.
Along with curiousity, the spur for scientific advancement has been based upon skepticism and doubt. If there's anything I'd take from this overstated thread is that, there is indeed a threshold of intelligence to acknowledge that something(s) is wrong.

Trudax:


How can you claim all humans have the same intelligence when we evidently differ in every other expressable trait? If there are genes that control every other trait, couldn't it be that there are genes that control intelligence and some races tend to have more highly evolved forms of these genes and possess it in greater number among their population?

But your FEW black classmates are just a minority in respect to the entire black population. How can you use their example as a conclusive proof to make the assertion that every race has the same intelligence? The Chinese outperform every other race irrespective of their environment. And their performance also corresponds with the results of IQ tests which blacks tend to underperform other races on the average.

I think the culture, structure and environment of a large group of individuals, is a more reliable way of evaluating variables such as intelligence. That's why in my argument against Sarassin, I used the the history and present situation of sub-saharan Africa to illustrate my point.

I don't think this is a self degrading question. I think it's one of the problems underlying sub-Saharan Africa's underdevelopment and why it's lagging behind in various areas, and acknowledging it, is the first step at mitigating this problem.

To begin with, there is no such thing as '' sub-Saharan Africa '' most of the people living South of the desert don't have much in common, the only thing they have in common is dark skin which is an evolution trait.

If intelligent is a function of how light an individual his you will expect lighter skin blacks or blacks with considerable white admixture to show more level of intellect. Majority of world population lives in abject poverty so that can't use as a yardstick to proof black intellectual inferiority, central Asian, eastern Europe have countries as poor as their African counterparts despite been predominantly white

dalaman:


I completely disagree that intelligence and creativity don't go together. They do.

That means you are not familiar with psychological research.

Intelligence is defined as “the ability to acquire and utilize knowledge.”
while Creativity is the ability to come up with new ideas through a
mental process of connecting existing concepts.

This is not about what you feel, I based my statement on researches.
Unless an individual is mentally retarded, their creativity does not
depend on intelligence.
In fact it is suggested that very high IQ may impair creative breakthrough
due to over thinking.

I implore you to read more on intelligence and creativity to get a balanced
view of it.

Nobody is saying the whites had it easy. In fact they were just like us at a time doing everything that we are doing. Practising feudalism, unable to lead themselves properly, denying the weakest of them rights and privileges, afraid of change and unable to create a functioning system.

where was their superior intelligence during this period ?

Over time they were able to use their intelligence to know that the way they were living wasn't beneficial to them as a people and tey decided fashion out a functional system out of the old one they had.

If time is a factor of application of intelligence, then it can be argued that
time is what everyone needs to pull off a breakthrough, because if a supposedly
intelligent people, remember intelligent is said to be hereditary, couldn't
figure out how to better their own lives, then how can anyone suggest
that they were intelligent in the first place ?

We have refused to do that. We have refused to change, we have refused to drop the aspects of our culture and traditions that are holding us from making progress as a people. We have refused to use our brains and come together to solve our problems.

At no time in human history has people come together as a whole to decide their own
future. What usually happens is that a tiny percentage of the population are able to
rise above the fold and spread their ideas throughout the society.

Do intelligent people practice the stupid tribalism and feudalism we practice? Do intelligent people keep holding unto a system that is holding them back without dropping them? If we are equally as intelligent then we should be able to create functional societies like them period.

While I disagree with the term "intelligent people", tribalism exist everywhere in the world.
In fact, America evangelicals(a significant percentage of America's population),
those you regard as of superior intelligence, have their way, they will institute theocracy
as preached in the bible and they will happily expunge any scientific idea that doesn't conform with
biblical narratives from their school system.

As I said before, there is no current successful government that was brought about through people
agreeing to change their ways, it was brought about largely through force and
effort of the enlightened portion of the populace.

We have failed in leading ourselves, failed in creating systems that will solve our problems, failed in doing away with our old ways that has stopped us from progressing.

What action have you ever taken to correct the system ?

It takes a certain level of intelligence to acknowledge that you have problems and then look for ways to solve them. We have refused to demonstrate that we have that ability to solve our problems.

You see, anyone can complain and apportion blame as most are doing on this thread,
if emotionally stating a problem is one of the mark of intelligence as a whole, then I
will say we are all at the same level of intelligence.
You can go to the street and ask people from all walks of life what Nigerian problems are for example,
I assure you that everyone have the cliched answers; Bad government, Bad Education systems
and voila you have a high intelligence people who acknowledge their problems!

The only people I take serious are those who have gone past the complain stage in their
thinking and are now in the effort and solution phase.

It is unfortunate that none of those trying to prove white superiority in this
thread could correctly state what the real problem is let alone offer a way
forward.
How can a mind that have been conditioned to feel inferior and
helpless ever liberate itself ?

I could summarise all the arguments in this thread as: This is my fate and it is not my fault
that I have this fate because I lack intelligence, if only I was more intelligent, I would have solved my
problems.

I will rest my case here until I see any positive post from the white supremacist
crew as going back and forth on this issue is pointless, unless their is a goal to
it which I haven't seen yet.

This is really shocking and incredible. What the fucking hell. This is self-loathing and self-degradation at its apogee. What came over you? What kind of heritage, breeding, peerage or "exposure" could make a Black African so contemptuous of his own identity to such an extent that he propagates the myth of Negroid inferiority with such zeal and enthusiasm? How does admitting such ridiculous bullshit help solve our problems? Trudax, several sane persons on this thread in a bid to make you see reason and ditch such toxic orientation have provided well-grounded points on why this extremely false AND offensive assertion of yours is an idea worth ditching into the trash bin, which even the vast majority of Caucasians themselves have consigned into the reeking dustbin of history, with all its awful stench and nauseous aura. The mere existence of this thread is a disgrace. We shouldn't be having this discussion.

I've intereacted with teenagers like myself from other races, Americans, British and Germans and I've never seen anything indicative of intellectual superiority. In fact, the vast majority of them, especially those of the American variety, are way dumber than the dictionary definition of dumb. You keep mentioning averages, averages like that's what provides you with the oxygen you breathe.... What exactly are you talking about? What averages? Do you really think it's that simple? Are we to imagine that intelligence is the only factor that contributed to other races outperforming the Negroids? Wouldn't that be ridiculous, intellectually crude, and disgustingly moronic? Every single one of your conclusions is invalid, and by virtue of my Negritude and the insult dealt me by your pseudo-scientific claptrap, I hereby declare them anathema, along with the one who made them - you, like a Medieval European Orthodox Catholic Priest. You keep accusing every person who makes a reasonable submission of irrational emotionalism and lack of objectivity, as if you yourself are the epitome of objectivity and the beacon of rationality.

Have you considered how human history played out up to this point? Isn't that a very important factor? What about EXCEPTIONALLY RARE CHANCE EVENTS Or, considering those is no good for your purposes, 'cos they will show how flawed your premises are and have your arguments destroyed on the hard rock of reason, hun, Almighty objective Trudax? What about ENVIRONMENT? That's another important factor. You can't just center it around intelligence. There are too many chance events in history to be overlooked, most of which had they not happened, things would have been completely different today, and the shoe we wear down here in Sub-Saharan Africa will probably be on the other foot. This attitude of yours is an insult to every Negroid with a sense of pride and and self-worth out there. It is a disgrace, and very deserving of the sort of contempt with which it was met, and even much more.

Whatever the problem of Sub-Saharan Africa is, it certainly isn't purely intellectual, neither does it have anything to do with intellectual inferiority on the part of we Africans with respect to other races (WTF!!!), no matter how much you claim otherwise. It is much more complex than you assume and has a lot more to do with history, environment, and society (as moulded by historical, environmental and cultural factors), and having this kind of pointless discussion will only create more problems than solve any of the numerous ones on ground. There is everything wrong with this topic of yours. Shed that cloak you're wearing. Snap out of that shit quick.

neocortex:


That means you are not familiar with psychological research.

Intelligence is defined as “the ability to acquire and utilize knowledge.”
while Creativity is the ability to come up with new ideas through a
mental process of connecting existing concepts.

This is not about what you feel, I based my statement on researches.
Unless an individual is mentally retarded, their creativity does not
depend on intelligence.
In fact it is suggested that very high IQ may impair creative breakthrough
due to over thinking.

I implore you to read more on intelligence and creativity to get a balanced
view of it.


where was their superior intelligence during this period ?


If time is a factor of application of intelligence, then it can be argued that
time is what everyone needs to pull off a breakthrough, because if a supposedly
intelligent people, remember intelligent is said to be hereditary, couldn't
figure out how to better their own lives, then how can anyone suggest
that they were intelligent in the first place ?


At no time in human history has people come together as a whole to decide their own
future. What usually happens is that a tiny percentage of the population are able to
rise above the fold and spread their ideas throughout the society.



While I disagree with the term "intelligent people", tribalism exist everywhere in the world.
In fact, America evangelicals(a significant percentage of America's population),
those you regard as of superior intelligence, have their way, they will institute theocracy
as preached in the bible and they will happily expunge any scientific idea that doesn't conform with
biblical narratives from their school system.

As I said before, there is no current successful government that was brought about through people
agreeing to change their ways, it was brought about largely through force and
effort of the enlightened portion of the populace.


What action have you ever taken to correct the system ?



You see, anyone can complain and apportion blame as most are doing on this thread,
if emotionally stating a problem is one of the mark of intelligence as a whole, then I
will say we are all at the same level of intelligence.
You can go to the street and ask people from all walks of life what Nigerian problems are for example,
I assure you that everyone have the cliched answers; Bad government, Bad Education systems
and voila you have a high intelligence people who acknowledge their problems!

The only people I take serious are those who have gone past the complain stage in their
thinking and are now in the effort and solution phase.

It is unfortunate that none of those trying to prove white superiority in this
thread could correctly state what the real problem is let alone offer a way
forward.
How can a mind that have been conditioned to feel inferior and
helpless ever liberate itself ?

I could summarise all the arguments in this thread as: This is my fate and it is not my fault
that I have this fate because I lack intelligence, if only I was more intelligent, I would have solved my
problems.

I will rest my case here until I see any positive post from the white supremacist
crew as going back and forth on this issue is pointless, unless their is a goal to
it which I haven't seen yet.

Have you ever asked yourself why the Atlantic slave trade which took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 15th through the 19th centuries (400years) lasted that long?

Can you tell me any other race that was subjugated, humiliated and maltreated on an unprecedented level like people of Sub Saharan Africa?

Who stopped the slave trading and what influenced it?

Anyone who wants to know the real problem should answer the above questions honestly.

Does the Op look into the mirror and consider himself ugly? It might be the case due to they way he sees nothing good in himself. May God help you.

LoJ, neocortex & Sauerr, your inputs are excellent and inspiring. I'm enjoying them. Nice arguments.

Godwin2016:
Does the Op look into the mirror and consider himself ugly? It might be the case due to they way he sees nothing good in himself. May God help you.

May God help you learn how to contribute to a discourse without insulting people

BlazingAyomikun:
This is really shocking and incredible. What the fucking hell. This is self-loathing and self-degradation at its apogee. What came over you? What kind of heritage, breeding, peerage or "exposure" could make a Black African so contemptuous of his own identity to such an extent that he propagates the myth of Negroid inferiority with such zeal and enthusiasm? How does admitting such ridiculous bullshit help solve our problems? Trudax, several sane persons on this thread in a bid to make you see reason and ditch such toxic orientation have provided well-grounded points on why this extremely false AND offensive assertion of yours is an idea worth ditching into the trash bin, which even the vast majority of Caucasians themselves have consigned into the reeking dustbin of history, with all its awful stench and nauseous aura. The mere existence of this thread is a disgrace. We shouldn't be having this discussion.

I've intereacted with teenagers like myself from other races, Americans, British and Germans and I've never seen anything indicative of intellectual superiority. In fact, the vast majority of them, especially those of the American variety, are way dumber than the dictionary definition of dumb. You keep mentioning averages, averages like that's what provides you with the oxygen you breathe.... What exactly are you talking about? What averages? Do you really think it's that simple? Are we to imagine that intelligence is the only factor that contributed to other races outperforming the Negroids? Wouldn't that be ridiculous, intellectually crude, and disgustingly moronic? Every single one of your conclusions is invalid, and by virtue of my Negritude and the insult dealt me by your pseudo-scientific claptrap, I hereby declare them anathema, along with the one who made them - you, like a Medieval European Orthodox Catholic Priest. You keep accusing every person who makes a reasonable submission of irrational emotionalism and lack of objectivity, as if you yourself are the epitome of objectivity and the beacon of rationality.

Have you considered how human history played out up to this point? Isn't that a very important factor? What about EXCEPTIONALLY RARE CHANCE EVENTS Or, considering those is no good for your purposes, 'cos they will show how flawed your premises are and have your arguments destroyed on the hard rock of reason, hun, Almighty objective Trudax? What about ENVIRONMENT? That's another important factor. You can't just center it around intelligence. There are too many chance events in history to be overlooked, most of which had they not happened, things would have been completely different today, and the shoe we wear down here in Sub-Saharan Africa will probably be on the other foot. This attitude of yours is an insult to every Negroid with a sense of pride and and self-worth out there. It is a disgrace, and very deserving of the sort of contempt with which it was met, and even much more.

Whatever the problem of Sub-Saharan Africa is, it certainly isn't purely intellectual, neither does it have anything to do with intellectual inferiority on the part of we Africans with respect to other races (WTF!!!), no matter how much you claim otherwise. It is much more complex than you assume and has a lot more to do with history, environment, and society (as moulded by historical, environmental and cultural factors), and having this kind of pointless discussion will only create more problems than solve any of the numerous ones on ground. There is everything wrong with this topic of yours. Shed that cloak you're wearing. Snap out of that shit quick.

there is no doubt those who think the negro race are inferior to other races are so in awe of the oganization and technological advancement of the caucasian and mongoloid dominated countries, BUT they fail to recognize that this is not a proof of the intellectual superiority of these communities but a function of influences in these communities. Leadership influences from philosophers of the great ancient Greek kingdom, the birth of the modern era intellectuallism, championed by great minds such as Aristotle, Socrates, Pluto and their schools. Their influence on leaderships of their communities and those responsible for medicine, politics and the military. How these great minds have been able to influence a school of thought that is the bedrock of scientific and technological even political revolution... Philosophy.
What about china, Japan, can we exempt their development from the inflences in philosophy even from the very Great Budha himself to confusus, influences that are evident in the leadership that has transformed a small fishing community known as japan into the technological hub it is today.
We quickly forget that their mathematical prowess is not an hereditory ability, but a cultural necessity based on the mandate parents put on their children even from their craddle years. A japanese or chinese parent would not tolerate his child being average, they are highly competitive and invest a lot to ensure that their children are the best academically. Their schools teach complex mathematical methods even from very early schooling stages.
Africa is lacking this sort of culture.
It is all about paradigm shift not a problem of genetics or being negros.
Being mongoloid or caucasian is not a provision for high intellect, it is merely an evolutionary adaptation to environment for a specie, the Homo sapian, which years of research and mental competitions in schools and offices has shown that the negros can reason and excel even better than the caucasian race, proving intelligence is not unique to a race.

HardMirror:
there is no doubt those who think the negro race are inferior to other races are so in awe of the oganization and technological advancement of the caucasian and mongoloid dominated countries, BUT they fail to recognize that this is not a proof of the intellectual superiority of these communities but a function of influences in these communities. Leadership influences from philosophers of the great ancient Greek kingdom, the birth of the modern era intellectuallism, championed by great minds such as Aristotle, Socrates, Pluto and their schools. Their influence on leaderships of their communities and those responsible for medicine, politics and the military. How these great minds have been able to influence a school of thought that is the bedrock of scientific and technological even political revolution... Philosophy.
What about china, Japan, can we exempt their development from the inflences in philosophy even from the very Great Budha himself to confusus, influences that are evident in the leadership that has transformed a small fishing community known as japan into the technological hub it is today.
We quickly forget that their mathematical prowess is not an hereditory ability, but a cultural necessity based on the mandate parents put on their children even from their craddle years. A japanese or chinese parent would not tolerate his child being average, they are highly competitive and invest a lot to ensure that their children are the best academically. Their schools teach complex mathematical methods even from very early schooling stages.
Africa is lacking this sort of culture.
It is all about paradigm shift not a problem of genetics or being negros.
Being mongoloid or caucasian is not a provision for high intellect, it is merely an evolutionary adaptation to environment for a specie, the Homo sapian, which years of research and mental competitions in schools and offices has shown that the negros can reason and excel even better than the caucasian race, proving intelligence is not unique to a race.

Good

You mentioned three important things that influence and develop the intellect of a man.

1. Leadership 2. Culture 3. Environment. (4. Religion)

Why can't we organize ourselves and fix these 3 (four) determinants in order to advance as a people?

HardMirror:
there is no doubt those who think the negro race are inferior to other races are so in awe of the oganization and technological advancement of the caucasian and mongoloid dominated countries, BUT they fail to recognize that this is not a proof of the intellectual superiority of these communities but a function of influences in these communities. Leadership influences from philosophers of the great ancient Greek kingdom, the birth of the modern era intellectuallism, championed by great minds such as Aristotle, Socrates, Pluto and their schools. Their influence on leaderships of their communities and those responsible for medicine, politics and the military. How these great minds have been able to influence a school of thought that is the bedrock of scientific and technological even political revolution... Philosophy.
What about china, Japan, can we exempt their development from the inflences in philosophy even from the very Great Budha himself to confusus, influences that are evident in the leadership that has transformed a small fishing community known as japan into the technological hub it is today.
We quickly forget that their mathematical prowess is not an hereditory ability, but a cultural necessity based on the mandate parents put on their children even from their craddle years. A japanese or chinese parent would not tolerate his child being average, they are highly competitive and invest a lot to ensure that their children are the best academically. Their schools teach complex mathematical methods even from very early schooling stages.
Africa is lacking this sort of culture.
It is all about paradigm shift not a problem of genetics or being negros.
Being mongoloid or caucasian is not a provision for high intellect, it is merely an evolutionary adaptation to environment for a specie, the Homo sapian, which years of research and mental competitions in schools and offices has shown that the negros can reason and excel even better than the caucasian race, proving intelligence is not unique to a race.

Indeed, exactly so. You're on point. The advent of the ancient Greek philosophers really was a blessing to the West, to which it will forever be indebted. The "Flash of Genius" of that era was a rare CHANCE EVENT owing to a lot of factors of which the Ancient Indians and Egyptians were part. This topic is more complex than Trudax and his ilk want to have us believe. There's so much more involved than the mere "average" intelligence of a particular race. In issues such as this, employing Aristotelian logic is ridiculous. Aristotelian logic is either black OR white, which is as extreme as you can get, and rather simplistic in nature. Obviously, the issue we're addressing is more complex than mere black OR white logic being applied to it. It is GREY and cloudy, since so many factors are involved. This is entirely rational and easy for any objective person to see. Why Trudax and the others keep emphasizing on that single factor of intelligence while accusing every other person of denial and emotionalism, as if like some obstinate fanatic, is quite beyond me.

Spengler and Toynbee envisaged history in terms of SEPERATE, autonomous cultures and civilizations. But Hegel took the stand that all cultures and civilizations are dialectically HARNESSED TOGETHER. All of them are affecting each other and are in dialectical loops with each other. Everything reacts to everything else. Just as no man is an island, nor is any culture or civilization.

Everything takes place within a context. No one starts a new culture or civilization out of nothing. It's always a REACTION to something else, hence is dialectical. During the Medieval ages when Europe was caught in religious frenzy and people can see demons and spirits everywhere, religious hysteria was all over the place, and an Islamic Golden age was flourishing in the Arab World (owing to the works of the Classical World). Were the Arabs the most intelligent at this time? Were the Caucasians incredibly dumb then? Was it all GENETIC? What would have happened to the civilization of the "more intelligent on average" Caucasians if the works of the ancient Greeks haven't found their way back to Europe through Arab conquests, (with a number of BONUSES) which was primarily responsible for the return of a Faustian West, to which the West is indebted to this day?

It's really not as simple as they think. I blame myself for not knowing enough history to be capable of delving deeper into this.