iSpirit1:
Should you find it impossible?

Romans 5:12-21 explains that clearly.

12. "wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

6:23 says the same thing. Sin brought imperfection to the earth especially upon those who have sinned.

All have sinned and the consequencies of sin is upon all except those who Jesus have taken away their sins, those who have faith in Him.

Notice: The death of Jesus and the justification he brought is not automatically given to anyone, except those who have faith in him. There4, children are still under the condemnation brought upon all by Adam's sin.

I'll stop here.

If all these your unfounded claims were true, why do born again couple, still give birth to babies with deformity?


Didn't your God says that the soul that sin, shall die? What sin did infant commit?

iSpirit1:
Lemme quickly trash these questions.

1. From the beginning, God didn't creat robots. He created beings with freedom of choice both Angels and Humans alike.

Sin originated when a freewill being misused it's freewill and chose evil rather than good. That being was Lucifer. And afterwards, he led other Angels astray with himself, and ultimately, Humans.

They all being freewill beings, chose their paths themselves.

Why did God creat the Tree?

That's very simple. There's no freewill where there's no multiple choices.

Good, move to the next.

lepasharon:

and who made the humans?

God, remember?

HardMirror:
problem is the prayers never work, but I so seeking a better solution to expensive surgeries that the poor families have to fund. Do you have any suggestions

Eeyah, sorry you. However, you seem to have done absolutely nothing else given your level of concern and claims and better thinking than we believers. Who do you pray and fast to as an unbeliever?

MZLady39:


I define "sin" as the cause of imperfection.
Lack of perfection.
In the original design (our bodies) were created perfectly.
That would mean...void of any malformations, deformities or impairments (visual, auditory, physical etc.).
If our bodies decay.....which they do as we age...that means that we are imperfect.
If a person needs earring aids, glasses, a cane to walk etc....that shows a sign of an impairment(s)...as "small" as those may be.
Adam & Eve didn't need those things because their bodies were created perfectly.....
That baby born with only one eye...wasn't God's original perfect plan. Ideally, it would've had two eyes.
The original sin has caused havoc on this earth.
It causes situation to be "less than ideal".
It doesn't mean that it was anyone's fault that the deformity occurred. It could hapoen to anyone.
However, good can come from a challenging situation.
However, in the end, the world and the overcomers will be transformed back into its original state.
1 Cor. 15:53 (paraphrased) says that those who have surrendered to Christ and have overcome will have to be changed from "corruptible" to "incorruptible" bodies....from "mortality" to "immortality".
What does that tell you about our bodies then?

CC: HardMirror

I beg to disagree with ur Ist definition of sin. sin can never be the cause of imperfection. Reason being that there is nothing as perfection. Perfection is a utopian concept. therefore, sin can't be the cause of something that isn't in existence.
Having said that, Sin is every act and form of ungodliness and unrighteousness. Thanks

Image123:


Eeyah, sorry you. However, you seem to have done absolutely nothing else given your level of concern and claims and better thinking than we believers. Who do you pray and fast to as an unbeliever?

The utter, arrant stupidity of that last sentence is why I can no longer seriously engage with our people who profess Christianity. Even as sarcasm it makes no sense whatsoever.

IN WHOSE/WHAT'S IMAGE ARE THESE CHILDREN CREATED?

"The ultimate destiny of every human being is to achieve the opportunity of re-unity with God through the process of ennoblement, perfection and the full realisation of God within. The true image of God does not, as widely believed imply God has a human form after which everyone is fashioned, but rather
means the immortal Spirit

what/who is God?

"The Source: Everything in the Universe, all Energy, vibration and life flows from The Source. Everything in the Universe is an integral aspect of, and an expression of The Source. Nothing can exist outside of, or separate to The Source. The Source is at once omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. The
Source is everything that Is. "



Nick Vujicic, the well-known man with no arms and legs who inspired millions of people for his life-changing message of hope goes to Oprah. He left everyone in the show in awe of the illustration he showed when Oprah asked him how despite his disabilities he was able to become the person he is now and was blessed with more than what he could ever dreamed of.Nick boldly shared the love of Jesus in the show without hesitation. Watch and be blessed!


http://www.imsoblesseddaily.com/nick-vujicic-turn-oprah-show-church-glorifying-jesus/

In conclusion: the physical appearance of man has nothing to do with the true image of God. The image of God is spirit which is internal and eternal (not external like physical appearance) and the likeness is infinite energy which is not bound by space-time dimension.

iSpirit1:
Everything God made was good until sin came into the world.

Sin brought imperfections, troubles, death etc to the earth.

But donot fret, the promise of a PERFECT earth is still up for grab.

DON'T MISS OUT!

These imperfections affect animals too so have they sinned aswell

TrajansKong:


The utter, arrant stupidity of that last sentence is why I can no longer seriously engage with our people who profess Christianity. Even as sarcasm it makes no sense whatsoever.

You've never seriously engaged anyone all through life. Do you even know the meaning of serious? The fellow said he fasted and prayed, yet i know him as an unbeliever. A serious minded person should ask who he fasted and prayed to. Pity you probably can't still grasp that. You've gotten that coveted attention, now run along.

lepasharon:


what sins did animals commit as they have imperfections too?

The animals committed no sin. They, being creatures on the earth, have been affected by the sin committed by Adam & Eve.. as well as all of nature.

iSpirit1:
Misusage of Freedom of Choice.

Absolutely correct.....

MZLady39:


The animals committed no sin. They, being creatures on the earth, have been affected by the sin committed by Adam & Eve.. as well as all of nature.

so u, a christian, are saying that without sin, you can still be punished for no reason? as far as dumb posts go, this one is right there at the top.

iSpirit1:
Lemme quickly trash these questions.

1. From the beginning, God didn't creat robots. He created beings with freedom of choice both Angels and Humans alike.

Sin originated when a freewill being misused it's freewill and chose evil rather than good. That being was Lucifer. And afterwards, he led other Angels astray with himself, and ultimately, Humans.

They all being freewill beings, chose their paths themselves.

Why did God creat the Tree?

That's very simple. There's no freewill where there's no multiple choices.

Wow brother,
You've basically answered these questions as I would have.....very scripturally sound.
Thank you for this.....beautifully stated......

AccidentalGenius:


so u, a christian, are saying that without sin, you can still be punished for no reason? as far as dumb posts go, this one is right there at the top.

Brother,
The command to not eat from the tree of "good and evil" was given to the two humans....Adam and Eve...(Gen 3:1-3)...not the animals.
However, the entire planet (including the animals) was and has been affected.
There is hope though....if you surrender your life to Christ.....and be restored to the original plan.

MZLady39:


Brother,
I do agree about the spiritual death, but didn't they both have to also die physically..cause had they not eaten from the tree they would've lived eternally right?

No, they would have died instantly....the same day they disobeyed. He said, IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT, YOU (ADAM) SHALL SURE DIED.

MZLady39:


Brother,
The command to not eat from the tree of "good and evil" was given to the two humans....Adam and Eve....not the animals.
However, the entire planet (including the animals) was and has been affected.
There is hope though....if you surrender your life to Christ.....and be restored to the original plan.

don't wish such evil upon me! i'd imagine you have surrendered you life to your mythical jesus, thats why its the way it is. original plan

MZLady39:


Brother,
The command to not eat from the tree of "good and evil" was given to the two humans....Adam and Eve....not the animals.
However, the entire planet (including the animals) was and has been affected.
There is hope though....if you surrender your life to Christ.....and be restored to the original plan.

No, the command was given to Adam but all things was in Adam and him in charge of all things.

mrmrmister:

You're calm, I love that.

Kindly answer one of the questions below:

"Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit"

1. Who created the forbidden tree?
And why?

2. God had a perfect plan but created a tree that could disrupt the whole plan. Discuss.

3. The "Garden of Eden" story is the most crappy story in the bible. Give your answers for or against.

Brother,
Thanks....I really am trying to do better at keeping calm in all circumstances....
Not to leave you hanging, but my brother here (iSpirit1) beautifully answered the questions in the manner I would've...so no need for me to repeat. In fact, all his posts on this thread were correct.
But I think I'm gonna pass on your last question also...cause you didn't play "fairly" in constructing it

Goshen360:


No, they would have died instantly....the same day they disobeyed. He said, IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT, YOU (ADAM) SHALL SURE DIED.

Brother,
Hold on please.....let me answer 2 more mentions before I answer this....
Thanks

Collyno82:
I beg to disagree with ur Ist definition of sin. sin can never be the cause of imperfection. Reason being that there is nothing as perfection. Perfection is a utopian concept. therefore, sin can't be the cause of something that isn't in existence.
Having said that, Sin is every act and form of ungodliness and unrighteousness. Thanks

Hi Brother,
Ok....let me rephrase what I mean.
Disobedience by our first parents =cause of sin.
Results of sin= imperfection of earth (death, wars, violence, disease, strife etc.)
The Garden of Eden was not a utopian concept.
It was an actual place...a paradise of perfection.
It had to be "perfect" because sin had not entered.
There was no need of repair there in any form.
Everything God made was "good".
A perfect God, a perfect paradise, and a perfect pair of people.
If sin (which is negative and imperfect) is every act of " ungodliness" & "unrighteousness".....then the absense of sin is every act of "righteousness" & "Godliness".....which means perfection.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
Thanks for commenting though

Goshen360:


No, they would have died instantly....the same day they disobeyed. He said, IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT, YOU (ADAM) SHALL SURE DIED.

Brother,
I think you misunderstood the question....
But they did eat and they disobeyed....sin entered the picture and although the death wasn't instant...their bodies began the deterioration process....meaning they would experience mortality...as opposed to if they hadn't eaten the fruit.

MZLady39:


The animals committed no sin. They, being creatures on the earth, have been affected by the sin committed by Adam & Eve.. as well as all of nature.

Why have they been affected too? Thats not fair is it?

Goshen360:


No, the command was given to Adam but all things was in Adam and him in charge of all things.

I agree that Adam (being the head) was the one who God held accountable once they had eaten the fruit (Gen. 3:9-12).
However, they both ate. Eve was able to convince Adam to eat....although he wasn't fooled by the serpent.
The command wasn't given to Adam alone.
It was also given to Eve (Gen. 3:1-3).
They got caught and started the blame game...
Consequences for their actions began on that day (Gen. 3:14-17).

lepasharon:


Why have they been affected too? Thats not fair is it?

Sin affects all....regardless of race, sex, creed, culture, creature etc.
Sin's not fair. But for now, this world is ravaged by it....
That's why people sometimes wonder why situations happen to some people and not others. It's not even that people are the cause of some things that happen....
But it won't always be this way....

Akiintom:

If all these your unfounded claims were true, why do born again couple, still give birth to babies with deformity?


Didn't your God says that the soul that sin, shall die? What sin did infant commit?

To answer that first paragraph:

"the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon the righteous. . .the parent's righteousness cannot be accorded to the child"

And the 2nd:

"for by the sin of one man, Adam, ALL were made sinners".



Also, read the answer I gave earlier, again.

lepasharon:


These imperfections affect animals too so have they sinned aswell

Adam(Mankind) was the chief creation of God. The whole earth was put under him. Therefore, his subordinates were affected by his sin.

MZLady39:


Wow brother,
You've basically answered these questions as I would have.....very scripturally sound.
Thank you for this.....beautifully stated......

Thanks to God Almighty.

Goshen360:


No, they would have died instantly....the same day they disobeyed. He said, IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT, YOU (ADAM) SHALL SURE DIED.

They died the same day they ate the fruit.

HOW?

Remember it was God who said it. So, to grasp that, we need to understand what "one day" means to God.

Well, truly, in God's calculation/reckoning, no man has lived a day old.

The oldest man to have lived on earth, being Methuselah, lived 969years old, and that, is not up to a day in God's calculation.

2Peter 3:8 shows us clearly how God counts Days.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Psalms 90:4 "for a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night"


A day in God's Calendar = A thousand years on earth.

AccidentalGenius:


don't wish such evil upon me! i'd imagine you have surrendered you life to your mythical jesus, thats why its the way it is. original plan

1Corinthians 1:18-31

"18. for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. . .21. for after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22. for the Jews require a sign, and the Greek seek after wisdom: 23. but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblinblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24. but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25. because the foolisness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."


Mr AccidentalGenius, be it known to you that "there's none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12).

iSpirit1:
To answer that first paragraph:

"the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon the righteous. . .the parent's righteousness cannot be accorded to the child"

And the 2nd:

"for by the sin of one man, Adam, ALL were made sinners".



Also, read the answer I gave earlier, again.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Akiintom:


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Chai, you dae read Bible o-o. I need to revisit that bible sef again

MZLady39:


Hi Brother,
Ok....let me rephrase what I mean.
Disobedience by our first parents =cause of sin.
Results of sin= imperfection of earth (death, wars, violence, disease, strife etc.)
The Garden of Eden was not a utopian concept.
It was an actual place...a paradise of perfection.
It had to be "perfect" because sin had not entered.
There was no need of repair there in any form.
Everything God made was "good".
A perfect God, a perfect paradise, and a perfect pair of people.
If sin (which is negative and imperfect) is every act of " ungodliness" & "unrighteousness".....then the absense of sin is every act of "righteousness" & "Godliness".....which means perfection.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
Thanks for commenting though

Good morning MZlady39. u tried but ur still not there. Firstly, Garden of Eden is a fact, a natural place of rest, but it wasn't perfect. Is not a perfect paradise as u painted it to be. Reason being that in the middle of the garden, there is a tree of life and tree of death( tree of wisdom unto destruction). Also there is serpent and satan DAT made them to no BTW good n evil. therefore a perfect place ought not to have those attributes mentioned above.
Having said that, DISOBEDIENCE IN ITSELF IS NOT SIN. but disobedience to some certain things are sin. Listen attentively, Disobedience to an unlawful order or instruction is not sin its godly. thanks for ur reply. looking forward to put me right if am wrong.Shalom