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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist (30134 Views)
The Failure Of Christian Deism / Deism, "-there Must Be Something" / From Christianity To Deism: My New Journey Has Just Started (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 11:59am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Kingebukasblog, nice bit of info. But as usual, you will twist and make nonsense of it |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:01pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
spacetacular: This is the last time I quote or answer you. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 12:01pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
CatfishBilly:EXACTLY. That implies pre-existing materials that God DIDN'T create. Just like we weren't responsible for the creation of the raw materials we use in industries. So if God created things from pre-existing materials, who created THEM? Creatio ex nihilo is just stupid.Hahahaha. It is incredibly absurd! Yet this is the only way Abrahamism can be valid. 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by hopefulLandlord: 12:01pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle:"Creation out of being of god" how meaningless can a sentence get? 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by spacetacular(f): 12:03pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: You still do not get it. The cyclical multiverse begins with a Big Bang and ends with a big crunch and propagates the theory of the universe coming from NOTHING. The cyclic model is highly regarded among many physicists partly because it allows them to avoid the question about the origin of the Universe. The start of each cycle is caused by the end of the previous one, but according to the model this process lasts forever, whereby it goes silent when it comes to the very first cycle. Do you not see the obvious error and vacuity? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:05pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: It is classic Christian theology 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 12:07pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle:I no be TLuvie o..... . And I'm a HE, sir. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by hopefulLandlord: 12:07pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: I even had to google that term and the mental gymnastics required to defend that stand was huge! |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:10pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
TLuzzie: A we talking of Christianity or theism? What concerns the scripture now because it does not even say the universe came from nothing. Created out of the being of God is somewhat like panentheism, whereby the universe is the material manifestation and God interprenates in it but the immaterial being is yet distinct and greater than its material manifestation. Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. I think this verse gives the greatest hint that everything was created from the being of God . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:10pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
TLuzzie: Bro. No vex. I was mixing you up with another person. Sorry |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by spacetacular(f): 12:10pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: Awww Jack is upset Stop hiding behind mood swings and deal with it(me). I will still quote you even if you refuse to respond simply because I know you would still read my comments. As long as I am able to impart some sense into you I am play with it. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by CatfishBilly: 12:10pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:I wonder who came up with the discipline of theology. It adds nothing whatsoever, just a bunch of fools, sitting together and making baseless claims. The fact that they award degrees is just extremely stupid. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:11pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: My brain ooooooo! Which kind bullshite be this? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by spacetacular(f): 12:13pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Colossians chapter 1 verse 16 and 17 16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:13pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: What? You never jam. Go and listen to kingEbuka's daddy, William Craig. Your brain will hang due to the sheer mental gymnastics the guy produces for his arguments. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:15pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: No it does not because without God the universe will not exist . The universe needs God to continously interact with it for it to exist from past infinitude That means God can decide to end the existence of the universe even though it has coexisted with It from past infinitude . You get? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by CatfishBilly: 12:15pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Can somebody explain this to me in simple English. Thanks. 3 Likes |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:16pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
spacetacular:Gbam ! This one even makes it clearer . Thanks |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by spacetacular(f): 12:17pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Read from verse 16 to 17. That holds true. 16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by CatfishBilly: 12:18pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Let me see if I get. The universe and god are not two parallel lines from the same "point" of origin, they intersect at some point and the universe continuously needs god for its existence? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:22pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: It simply means that God is like the soul of the universe . The same way you have a soul and your body is its material manifestation but it is still separate from your material body making it possible for the soul to exist without your body . |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by hopefulLandlord: 12:22pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: actually I used to watch him a lot, although I find ALL his arguments easy for me to counter except the cosmological argument speaking of which my longest post on this thread actually addresses it as it doesn't show anything about this so-called first cause where I actually found his dishonesty too Much to bear are 2 incidences 1. he claims his evidence for Christianity being true is that Jesus rose from the dead Mark Smith (atheist) then asked: Dr. Craig, for the sake of argument let’s pretend that a time machine gets built. You and I hop in it, and travel back to the day before Easter We park it outside the tomb of Jesus. We wait. Easter morning rolls around, and nothing happens. We continue to wait. After several weeks of waiting, still nothing happens. There is no resurrection- Jesus is quietly rotting away in the tomb. Craig told him he would still believe in the resurrection of Jesus, due to the “self-authenticating witness of the Holy Spirit.” at that point, I actually stopped taking him seriously, infact I now see him as more of a joke 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by hopefulLandlord: 12:24pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
2. in his debate with Arif Ahmed he said :"As long as reason is minister of the Christian faith, Christians should adhere to it." "We can know the truth, whether we have rational arguments or not." "Even though we are given no good reason to believe, and many persuasive reasons to disbelieve, even then the disbeliever has no excuse. Because the ultimate reason he does not believe is that he has rejected deliberately God's holy spirit." at that point I simply not only saw him as a joke but wondered why someone would even debate him at all, even Arif Ahmed was so perplexed by that statement that he told Craig to give him a good reason why they're not wasting their time debating and Craig couldn't address that point 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:25pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: There is no origin . And yes , the universe continously needs God for its existence. And God can decide to end the existence of the universe since it is greater than it and exist as a separate conscious being. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:29pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
spacetacular: Exactly !!! The bible has been screaming creatio ex deo yet some Christians support the creatio ex nihilo Now I wonder where they got that from 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by spacetacular(f): 12:33pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: I wonder about that too. 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by CatfishBilly: 12:33pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Creatio ex materia already said that the universe can exist separate from god, it just needs the continuous intervention from god in order the sustain it's existence. I think adding that caveat is some sort of ad hoc hypothesis to make the argument make sense. Going by the logic of creatio ex materia, god can go off in one direction dancing outside the universe and generally having fun, while the universe can go off on it's own to develop into the universe as we know and never the twain shall meet. Why does the universe need god for its sustainability? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:33pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: There is a game called SOUL BLADE. The soul blade (a sword) is a physical manifestation of a demonic entity but it is still separate from the sword aa the entity can appear in certain situations. Nna, see wetin you done reduce your God to- a mere videogame plot |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:35pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: One of his arguments for the ressurection of Christ is that there were witnesses and they could not have been mass hallucinating when they saw him. As if magicians don't have audiences to fool with illusions |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:36pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: Lolz .., you no well at all jack Instead of using that to understand the message being passed , you think it's a reason to mock the concept . I just dey look you 2 Likes
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Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by CoolUsername: 12:36pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: Maybe God killed himself to create the Universe? I think they call that pandeism. An interesting concept in my opinion, Scott Adams, maker of the newspaper cartoon, Dilbert wrote about in his piece, God's Debris. The guy believes that self-destruction is the only worthwhile challenge for an omnipotent being, causing God to kill himself with our Universe being a byproduct. Obviously, this is very unlikely due to argument of God being unnecessary which I always make but it is still a nice concept to consider. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 12:39pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Bros, na the oshogbo weed. The thing dey potent |
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