KingEbukasBlog:


The theory of the cyclic universe has been debunked by science . I'm on a mobile device now , I would have explained in details.



There are three concepts of creation

1. Creatio ex deo - creation out of the being of God which I subscribe to

2. Creatio ex materia - eternal universe coexisting with God from past infinitude.

3. Creatio ex nihilo - creation out of nothing

Not everyone subscribes to creation out of nothing . And there are theists who object creatio ex nihilo

Apparently, you are mocking in ignorance which is just a pitiful thing to see .

Kingebukasblog, nice bit of info.

But as usual, you will twist and make nonsense of it

spacetacular:


So now it's science fiction and no longer pure scientific proof?

Jack oh Jack!

And there was Mr Dalaman talking to me about physical perception. I think he also needs to talk to you about it Jack or is science fiction also physical perception or felt by the senses.

This is the last time I quote or answer you.

CatfishBilly:

Creatio ex materia renders god redundant in my opinion. I see nothing for god to do in that scenario.

EXACTLY. That implies pre-existing materials that God DIDN'T create. Just like we weren't responsible for the creation of the raw materials we use in industries. So if God created things from pre-existing materials, who created THEM?

Creatio ex nihilo is just stupid.

Hahahaha. It is incredibly absurd! Yet this is the only way Abrahamism can be valid.

JackBizzle:


Kingebukasblog, nice bit of info.
But as usual, you will twist and make nonsense of it

"Creation out of being of god" how meaningless can a sentence get?

JackBizzle:



The fact is that I do not know how the universe came about. The most plausible theory, albeit sci-fi, to me is the cyclical multiverse.

Tluvie is saying the same thing albeit in his/her own way.

Ogbeni, SWERVE

You still do not get it. The cyclical multiverse begins with a Big Bang and ends with a big crunch and propagates the theory of the universe coming from NOTHING.

The cyclic model is highly regarded among many physicists partly because it allows them to avoid the question about the origin of the Universe.

The start of each cycle is caused by the end of the previous one, but according to the model this process lasts forever, whereby it goes silent when it comes to the very first cycle.

Do you not see the obvious error and vacuity?

hopefulLandlord:


"Creation out of being of god" how meaningless can a sentence get?

It is classic Christian theology

JackBizzle:



The fact is that I do not know how the universe came about. The most plausible theory, albeit sci-fi, to me is the cyclical multiverse.

Tluvie is saying the same thing albeit in his/her own way.

Ogbeni, SWERVE

I no be TLuvie o..... . And I'm a HE, sir.

JackBizzle:


It is classic Christian theology

I even had to google that term and the mental gymnastics required to defend that stand was huge!

TLuzzie:
Oh, interesting. Can you tell me how CREATION OUT OF THE BEING OF GOD occurs, and which part of the scriptures of your theistic religion of Christianity backs it up?

A we talking of Christianity or theism? What concerns the scripture now because it does not even say the universe came from nothing.

Created out of the being of God is somewhat like panentheism, whereby the universe is the material manifestation and God interprenates in it but the immaterial being is yet distinct and greater than its material manifestation.

Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I think this verse gives the greatest hint that everything was created from the being of God .

TLuzzie:
I no be TLuvie o..... . And I'm a HE, sir.

Bro.

No vex. I was mixing you up with another person. Sorry

JackBizzle:


This is the last time I quote or answer you.

Awww Jack is upset

Stop hiding behind mood swings and deal with it(me). I will still quote you even if you refuse to respond simply because I know you would still read my comments. As long as I am able to impart some sense into you I am play with it.

hopefulLandlord:


"Creation out of being of god" how meaningless can a sentence get?

I wonder who came up with the discipline of theology.
It adds nothing whatsoever, just a bunch of fools, sitting together and making baseless claims.
The fact that they award degrees is just extremely stupid.

KingEbukasBlog:


A we talking of Christianity or theism? What concerns the scripture now because it does not even say the universe came from nothing.

Created out of the being of God is somewhat like panentheism, whereby the universe is the material manifestation and it interprenates in it but the immaterial being is yet distinct and greater than its material manifestation.

Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I think this verse gives the greatest hint that everything was created from the being of God .

My brain ooooooo!

Which kind bullshite be this?

KingEbukasBlog:


A we talking of Christianity or theism? What concerns the scripture now because it does not even say the universe came from nothing.

Created out of the being of God is somewhat like panentheism, whereby the universe is the material manifestation and it interprenates in it but the immaterial being is yet distinct and greater than its material manifestation.

Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I think this verse gives the greatest hint that everything was created from the being of God .

Colossians chapter 1 verse 16 and 17

16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

hopefulLandlord:


I even had to google that term and the mental gymnastics required to defend that stand was huge!

What? You never jam. Go and listen to kingEbuka's daddy, William Craig. Your brain will hang due to the sheer mental gymnastics the guy produces for his arguments.

CatfishBilly:

Creatio ex materia renders god redundant in my opinion. I see nothing for god to do in that scenario.

Creatio ex nihilo is just stupid.

No it does not because without God the universe will not exist . The universe needs God to continously interact with it for it to exist from past infinitude

That means God can decide to end the existence of the universe even though it has coexisted with It from past infinitude .

You get?

KingEbukasBlog:


A we talking of Christianity or theism? What concerns the scripture now because it does not even say the universe came from nothing.

Created out of the being of God is somewhat like panentheism, whereby the universe is the material manifestation and it interprenates in it but the immaterial being is yet distinct and greater than its material manifestation.

Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I think this verse gives the greatest hint that everything was created from the being of God .

Can somebody explain this to me in simple English.
Thanks.

spacetacular:


Colossians chapter 1 verse 17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Gbam !
This one even makes it clearer .
Thanks

KingEbukasBlog:


Gbam !

This one even makes it clearer .

Thanks

Read from verse 16 to 17. That holds true.

16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

KingEbukasBlog:


No it does not because without God the universe will not exist . The universe needs God to continously interact with it for it to exist from past infinitude

That means God can decide to end the existence of the universe even though it has coexisted with It from past infinitude .

You get?

Let me see if I get.
The universe and god are not two parallel lines from the same "point" of origin, they intersect at some point and the universe continuously needs god for its existence?

CatfishBilly:

Can somebody explain this to me in simple English.
Thanks.

It simply means that God is like the soul of the universe . The same way you have a soul and your body is its material manifestation but it is still separate from your material body making it possible for the soul to exist without your body .

JackBizzle:




What? You never jam. Go and listen to kingEbuka's daddy, William Craig. Your brain will hang due to the sheer mental gymnastics the guy produces for his arguments.

actually I used to watch him a lot, although I find ALL his arguments easy for me to counter except the cosmological argument speaking of which my longest post on this thread actually addresses it as it doesn't show anything about this so-called first cause

where I actually found his dishonesty too Much to bear are 2 incidences

1. he claims his evidence for Christianity being true is that Jesus rose from the dead

Mark Smith (atheist) then asked:

Dr. Craig, for the sake of argument let’s pretend that a time machine gets built. You and I hop in it, and travel back to the day before Easter We park it outside the tomb of Jesus. We wait. Easter morning rolls around, and nothing happens. We continue to wait. After several weeks of waiting, still nothing happens. There is no resurrection- Jesus is quietly rotting away in the tomb.


Craig told him he would still believe in the resurrection of Jesus, due to the “self-authenticating witness of the Holy Spirit.”


at that point, I actually stopped taking him seriously, infact I now see him as more of a joke

2. in his debate with Arif Ahmed he said :"As long as reason is minister of the Christian faith, Christians should adhere to it."

"We can know the truth, whether we have rational arguments or not."

"Even though we are given no good reason to believe, and many persuasive reasons to disbelieve, even then the disbeliever has no excuse. Because the ultimate reason he does not believe is that he has rejected deliberately God's holy spirit."

at that point I simply not only saw him as a joke but wondered why someone would even debate him at all, even Arif Ahmed was so perplexed by that statement that he told Craig to give him a good reason why they're not wasting their time debating and Craig couldn't address that point

CatfishBilly:

Let me see if I get.
The universe and god are not two parallel lines from the same "point" of origin, they intersect at some point and the universe continuously needs god for its existence?

There is no origin . And yes , the universe continously needs God for its existence. And God can decide to end the existence of the universe since it is greater than it and exist as a separate conscious being.

spacetacular:


Read from verse 16 to 17. That holds true.

16. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Exactly !!! The bible has been screaming creatio ex deo yet some Christians support the creatio ex nihilo

Now I wonder where they got that from

KingEbukasBlog:


Exactly !!! The bible has been screaming creatio ex deo yet some Christians support the creatio ex nihilo

Now I wonder where they got that from

I wonder about that too.

KingEbukasBlog:


There is no origin . And yes , the universe continously needs God for its existence. And God can decide to end the existence of the universe since it is greater than it and exist as a separate conscious being.

Creatio ex materia already said that the universe can exist separate from god, it just needs the continuous intervention from god in order the sustain it's existence.

I think adding that caveat is some sort of ad hoc hypothesis to make the argument make sense.

Going by the logic of creatio ex materia, god can go off in one direction dancing outside the universe and generally having fun, while the universe can go off on it's own to develop into the universe as we know and never the twain shall meet.

Why does the universe need god for its sustainability?

KingEbukasBlog:


It simply means that God is like the soul of the universe . The same way you have a soul and your body is its material manifestation but it is still separate from your material body making it possible for the soul to exist without your body .

There is a game called SOUL BLADE.

The soul blade (a sword) is a physical manifestation of a demonic entity but it is still separate from the sword aa the entity can appear in certain situations.


Nna, see wetin you done reduce your God to- a mere videogame plot

hopefulLandlord:


actually I used to watch him a lot, although I find ALL his arguments easy for me to counter except the cosmological argument speaking of which my longest post on this thread actually addresses it as it doesn't show anything about this so-called first cause

where I actually found his dishonesty too Much to bear are 2 incidences

1. he claims his evidence for Christianity being true is that Jesus rose from the dead

Mark Smith (atheist) then asked:

Dr. Craig, for the sake of argument let’s pretend that a time machine gets built. You and I hop in it, and travel back to the day before Easter We park it outside the tomb of Jesus. We wait. Easter morning rolls around, and nothing happens. We continue to wait. After several weeks of waiting, still nothing happens. There is no resurrection- Jesus is quietly rotting away in the tomb.


Craig told him he would still believe in the resurrection of Jesus, due to the “self-authenticating witness of the Holy Spirit.”


at that point, I actually stopped taking him seriously, infact I now see him as more of a joke

One of his arguments for the ressurection of Christ is that there were witnesses and they could not have been mass hallucinating when they saw him.


As if magicians don't have audiences to fool with illusions

JackBizzle:


There is a game called SOUL BLADE.

The soul blade (a sword) is a physical manifestation of a demonic entity but it is still separate from the sword aa the entity can appear in certain situations.


Nna, see wetin you done reduce your God to- a mere videogame plot

Lolz .., you no well at all jack

Instead of using that to understand the message being passed , you think it's a reason to mock the concept .

I just dey look you

hopefulLandlord:


"Creation out of being of god" how meaningless can a sentence get?

Maybe God killed himself to create the Universe? I think they call that pandeism. An interesting concept in my opinion, Scott Adams, maker of the newspaper cartoon, Dilbert wrote about in his piece, God's Debris. The guy believes that self-destruction is the only worthwhile challenge for an omnipotent being, causing God to kill himself with our Universe being a byproduct.

Obviously, this is very unlikely due to argument of God being unnecessary which I always make but it is still a nice concept to consider.

KingEbukasBlog:


Lolz .., you no well at all jack

Instead of using that to understand the message being passed , you think it's a reason to mock the concept .

I just dey look you

Bros, na the oshogbo weed. The thing dey potent