₦airaland Forum

thesuave10:
Lol.. .. my man all these stuff tho. You have time sha. Women will never admit anything. Just leave her to be delusional. Reality will open her eyes soon and she'll come here and say it. Just leave her. If she was arguing reasonably it would have been understandable, she's just yarning dust

ToyinDipo:
Lol, it's actually difficult to argue with them.
The way they see things is just too linear

Sierusvirus:
If it's your sister, that means she's not well trained, she deserves it and I will surely be waiting for your reaction.

Martin0:
No I doubt,this is a crippy lie..

So u mean these men and women are not well trained by their parents

Lalas247:
Dem never jam person wey go deal with them ni

What guys don't understand if you cheat means you are trying to kill me yes.. because I don't know where he is dipping his stick, HIV is real and other STI etc on that note she suppose break the back window self .. nonsense

Organs:
LOL, Martin0, are you IPOB? you remind me of a typical IPOB member's mindset, you see they do not believe Buhari did not embezzle money, you know why, because they will embezzle if they were in his shoes so they imagine everyone else will do same. Ol Boy, nobi today. Why i go dey lie? I have been called "mumu"., idiot, gay etc all because i refused, most times cos she is married, or cos she is just not my type. Like i said i am not a saint.

Organs:
LOL, Martin0, are you IPOB? you remind me of a typical IPOB member's mindset, you see they do not believe Buhari did not embezzle money, you know why, because they will embezzle if they were in his shoes so they imagine everyone else will do same. Ol Boy, nobi today. Why i go dey lie? I have been called "mumu"., idiot, gay etc all because i refused, most times cos she is married, or cos she is just not my type. Like i said i am not a saint.

ToyinDipo:
Read through your posts, if you can't notice how you drifted, then I can't help
If they were not being allowed, list 3 logic based professions, where such occurred with proof.

Logically, people go into professions where there strength lies, no?
If you see a lot of women in modelling, chef..., what does that tell you.
I wasn't necessarily saying that you find the strongest men among those, but there is a very high probability that's where you find the strongest men, or where else?
That's why I typed the world sampling, it gives you an overview of the world's strongest men.

Why do you find it hard to get basic points
I asked since all those have been abolished, what are the giant strides to suggest that if not for all those, Africa would be developed.
Similar way that 100 years from now, you ladies will keep whining that they didn't give you equal opportunities, and that why you are where you at.

You see my point, you can't find simple link on your own
www . itworld . com/article/2823547/enterprise-software/158256-superclass-14-of-the-world-s-best-living-programmers . html
That's one of those...

There are more ladies in chef than women, and men tend to win chef competitions than women?

There are more women in chess now, than men in the 60s, no woman can match any of the men in the top 10 in the 60s, so?

If you can give just two valid factors to consider, I'll give up

ToyinDipo:
Lol, it's actually difficult to argue with them.
The way they see things is just too linear

thesuave10:
Try explaining physics to a 2yr old. It's the same thing

OwoLee:
off recent, a banker lady was killed by her husband who alleged her to be cheating? whats your judgment on that?

ibkayee:
Lol the burden of proof is on the person who made the claim, I can’t see where I drifted because I didn’t, so I’ve asked you, who made the claim, to show me, simple.

How long does it take to highlight the alleged drifting and say ‘This is where you drifted’? End of. You managed to respond to everything else so I doubt it’s down to a lack of time. It’s not that hard to point out.

Only points I have made are that men dominating most ‘logical’ professions isn’t down to a superior innate ability, I then gave reasons and examples, that’s it. You’re actually the one drifting by not answering a simple, straightforward question. If the drifting actually exists, just point it out it’s not hard lool

An example of restrictions in Law

Though there were exceptions, women were restricted from practicing law before the sex disqualification (removal) act in 1919

An excerpt from The Irish Jurist (Ireland's oldest established academic law journal) – The sex disqualification (removal) act in 1919 removed most of the legal restrictions on the appointment of women to public office or the professions but did nothing to assist them in obtaining appointments. Nor did it prevent discrimination in practice.

Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/44027263?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

An example of restrictions in Medicine

An excerpt from Women in Medicine: A Review of Changing Physician Demographics, Female Physicians by Specialty, State and Related Data – For the majority of American history, medicine was a male-dominated profession, with females serving other roles including nursing and midwifery. Medical schools, like the majority of higher level institutions, restricted admission to males only, and thus opportunities for integration and advancement for women in medicine were limited.

https://www.amnhealthcare.com/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/Staffing_Recruitment/Staffcare-WP-Women%20in%20Med.pdf

An excerpt from Women in medicine - The nursing role was seen as an extension of women's social role: caring and nurturing. However, there was not the same openness to women becoming doctors. Many women attempted to become doctors in the 1800s - Margaret Bulkley even masqueraded as a male doctor for 46 years. At the end of the century women gained the right to study for the same qualifications as men.

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/themes/practisingmedicine/women

An example of restrictions in Science (Mathematics)

An excerpt from A Short History ofWomen in Science: From Stone Walls to Invisible Walls - Although there were no stone convent walls to limit women’s access to science education in the U.S.,women found themselves locked out of higher education by the stone walls of male-only colleges and universities. At that time in our history, education was largely the preserve of sons of wealthy families who were being prepared for the ministry.

Until the early 19th century, girls’ education was restricted to informal learning at “Dame
Schools” where instruction was offered by female teachers, usually in their homes. Young girls
were taught basic reading and writing, embroidery, and other “feminine” skills.

http://www.brandeis.edu/barnett/docs/7654.PDF


Logically, people go into professions where their strengths lie, I’m not disputing this, what I am disputing is the claim that it is solely down to innate ability.

I’m saying socialisation contributes to male and females working towards thus being the majority in certain professions, we are raised to be motivated by certain things and ‘groomed’ to focus more of our energy into certain fields, this is why more men end up applying for certain jobs more than women and vice versa.

If there aren’t as many women as men in a profession due to socialisation and historical factors I’ve pointed out, then obviously there will be more men in the sample…since there are more of them. (Refer back to the X and Y analogy for easier understanding lol)



Not really, you just went offtopic. One of the points I made to counter your argument was that past events have influenced the gap between male and female, so males have had a head start and females were at a disadvantage in comparison. Strides taken after is a different topic.

1. What are the factors that caused the gap between genders in professions?
2. What are the giant strides taken after?

Your ‘undeveloped Africa’ analogy didn’t make sense because it was asking a different question.
Women whining about being /where they’re at’ is a different discussion to what factors in the past caused them to be at a disadvantage in certain professions, stick to the point.

Women whining about being /where they’re at’ is a different discussion to what factors in the past caused them to be at a disadvantage in certain professions, stick to the point.

Having a head start = being more likely to have more males and dominate said field than the gender that didn’t

Dominating said field = appealing more to males then females

Appealing more to males than females = more men being in the profession

More men being in the profession = more likely to dominate than females



Would’ve been easier if you’d just said programmer, they’re linked but not necessarily the same thing (refer back to factors that influence women not being into tech as much as men lol)



Lol I’ve always heard that there are more male chefs actually

The amount of men didn’t just stop growing and women overtook them lol, there are more women in chess now than men in the 60s but the amount of men also grew too lool so it still isn’t proportionate lol


This discussion appears to be a lost cause if at the end of the writeup, you're asking for what exactly has been explained. I mentioned socialisation and historical inequalities as contributing factors, like, it’s literally all I’ve been talking about lol and it doesn't get anymore valid than that.

Have a nice afternoon sha

ibkayee:
Lol I've actually been anything but linear, that's why I haven't come to an aboslute conclusion without looking at all factors.

You've basically claimed that men are the more logical sex because they dominate certain professions and solely down to innate ability (no evidence on that besides 'they dominate'), completely ignoring the factors that have contributed to them being there in the first place. It doesn't get more 'linear' than that lol smh. Ok sha superior one

Lalas247:
Taking a life is a grave sin...

OwoLee:
the man that did it, didn't planned it, he did that out of emotions and annoyance, so you know that, just what she did was stupid and irrelevant... she could have walked away...she would surely pay for her sins...we all don't know the end!

Lalas247:
Judge not niqqa first rule
Leave it to God .. anyway that's non of my biz .. have u seen exchange rate today ? Happy days

Organs:
No matter the training lady wey dey vex can do anything, ever heard the expression "hell has no fury like a woman scorned"? Also, she destroy moto, a full grown woman you come say you go use the baseball bat on her ribs, well, long story short, do not put your hands on a woman, just waka comot, most of them get small ogbanje, again don't you ever put your hands on a woman. Bros, na beta advice i give you so, those who have ears, ......

ToyinDipo:
Law
Lol, since 1919, I'm sure you must be having a good laugh typing this
Do you know how many generations have succeeded and failed after this, not to talk of evolutions/revolutions
Medicine

Maths
18th century

Your analogy is only clear too you, tbh.
If it's not solely down to innate ability, then innate ability is the major factor, at least to logical people
There is no one socially discriminating against any logic based profession I know of, this isn't carpentry or masonry or mechanics, lol.

I didn't go off topic, except, you didn't grasp the analogy
If females were allegedly not allowed in certain occupations as you stated, now that 'they've been allowed', how are they faring,
There should be some impacts to suggest that in the nearest future, both sex will be on equal footings.
or they need a lifetime to catch up?

This is 21st century, where it's about survival of the fittest.
Women are venturing into roughly all professions at the same rate as men
If they found themselves being 'obscured', it's not due to lack of effort/participation, it's competition.

Have a nice afternoon too

ToyinDipo:
There are several ways I could prove my points, however, I decided to choose the more salient one, so as not to complicate it.
All the points you listed are no way deterministic.
They are just convenient excuses

ibkayee:
I cited 1919 because it’s an example of not being allowed at all rather than just being restricted

Laws like 1919 were more or less just formal agreements and didn’t necesarily mean a change in attitude, sexism was still carried through ‘generations’ despite being passed ‘since’

Women suffer more discrimination in hiring for jobs in mathematics

https://www.usnews.com/news/stem-solutions/articles/2014/03/26/study-women-heavily-discriminated-against-in-math-hiring

Dr. Vera Rubin rejected by Princeton for a graduate degree because their astronomy program didn't accept women. (Occurred in 1948, policy held until 1975)

‘Aspiring female lawyers faced a difficult educational and professional road. Women seeking to become lawyers were discouraged from doing so. They were explicitly or implicitly told that they would be outnumbered by men, that it would be nearly impossible to get a job in a firm, and, through the use of gendered pronouns and anecdotes, that law was a man's profession. Women lawyers were encouraged to stick to areas considered "well-suited" to them such as legal aid and government work, and they made only 60 percent of their male colleagues' salaries.’

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/library/collections/gender-legal-history/glh-summary.cfm?glhID=CD09BC44-EB0E-9C6D-4D45D050CEF41DC4

‘Aspiring female lawyers faced a difficult educational and professional road. Women seeking to become lawyers were discouraged from doing so. They were explicitly or implicitly told that they would be outnumbered by men, that it would be nearly impossible to get a job in a firm, and, through the use of gendered pronouns and anecdotes, that law was a man's profession. Women lawyers were encouraged to stick to areas considered "well-suited" to them such as legal aid and government work, and they made only 60 percent of their male colleagues' salaries.’

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/library/collections/gender-legal-history/glh-summary.cfm?glhID=CD09BC44-EB0E-9C6D-4D45D050CEF41DC4


There's quite a bit of research on it sha but ok lol

My analogy was based on my point that men and women are disproportionately represented in these fields partly because men have had a history of being socialised towards them more.

Overwhelming evidence indicates that women are socialized away from STEM (Johnson, 2007; Sadker & Sadker, 1994; Hall & Sandler, 1982).

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/library/collections/gender-legal-history/glh-summary.cfm?glhID=CD09BC44-EB0E-9C6D-4D45D050CEF41DC4

We’ll agree to disagree I guess.

You insinuated it was solely initially (main reason I disagreed with you), now it’s major.

Eh, I maintain my stance on male/female disparities in these professions not being primarily down to innate ability, there are too many confounding variables to put it down to one thing

It’s also an oversimplification to look at the differences in male/female behaviour and not take social conditioning in consideration at all, so we’ll just agree to disagree lol

Didn’t really get your last line.


Grasped the analogy, but I was focusing solely on the impact things had, you were talking about strides taken after the fact.

It only makes sense that in the years coming the gap will get smaller since we currently have the opportunities many didn’t have in the past, though it's not necessarily that we got smarter or anything, just more opportunities.


Lol a bit utopic, even as ethnic minorities, realistically we aren’t always on equal footing with others but ok .


Did you manage to find the part where I got emotional, drifted etc?

sunshineG:
please don't be annoyed, I am a local boy

Are you still arguing based on emotional intelligence or is your argument drifting towards the intelligence qouta as a whole

Cause if the case study for your argument is the woman on this thread then you have drifted into a new topic


Emotional intelligence deals with ability to remain calm under emotional stress, hence it deals with emotions such love, hate and anger, it has very little to do with intelligence qouta itself

These emotions can overwhelmed a very intelligent person and someone who is less intelligent may deal with it better

So I think if this thread is the basses of your arguments, you have lost me

Don't be angry at me, i attended one local school in ibadan, you can educate me
I won't mind

ibkayee:
Lool why do you keep saying you're local

I was talking about emotional intelligence with the first guy. The one I'm talking to currently brought up logic in professions for some reason so yeah it's a different topic

I agree with you

Why would I be angry?

sunshineG:
I am local boy from Ibadan now, who lives in the most local area in Ibadan
So I am a local champion

I am glad you agree with me on the topic.

However, your argument with him can never have any logical conclusion.
His points are valid that most of top jobs that requires high iQ are occupied by males, but yours is also valid that social issues is one of the key reasons for that
But how much of a role social issue plays is a subject that can be debated forever.

I hope I made sense

Arrm I don't want to annoy beautiful damsel from london so that you don't use Queen's English to destroy my head

ibkayee:
I'm not saying that natural logical reasoning doesn't contribute to it, I'm just saying it isn't the only contribution, whereas he initially put it down to innate ability entirely.

So we can't say it's the only reason/without a doubt that males dominate certain professions since there are many confounding variables like social issues

sunshineG:
this part I understand that social issue is a major issue why some women are not able to reach their full potential
This is a different argument all together because you are drawing conclusion based on a debatable reason that is yet to be concluded. So are you saying those women who are not able to reach full potential due to social issues will be better than those men in those top positions without any evidence to support the fact that those women are actually better?

Lmao you won't, I like to learn from discussions, I'm not necessarily always right Chisos what ?
Opiniative London lady

ibkayee:
Nah I'm not claiming that women would be better, I'm not even saying women are perfect

I'm saying that we can't conclude without a doubt that men are in such positions primarily because of innate ability, social factors should come into consideration

sunshineG:
so your arguments is only based on the social issues being a major reason for limited numbers of women in top position based on mental capacity, not that they will automatically be in top position if given the chance
Hope I made sense

Don't mind my pry 2 grammar

ibkayee:
Socialisation (gender stereotyping from birth) i.e. Robot for boy, doll for girl
Historical inequalities
Covert structural/institutional sexism
Being encouraged into more domesticity roles (children etc)

Studies show women are scoring slightly higher than men in technology and engineering literacy

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/05/data-girls-stem/483255/

'but according to a study commissioned by Microsoft in Europe, the problem occurs when young women lose interest in these subjects or are dissuaded from involvement at around the age of 15 (CNN). “Conformity to social expectations, gender stereotypes, gender roles, and lack of role models continue to channel girls’ career choices away from STEM fields” (CNN).'

I'm saying It's not necessarily because they lack the ability, choosing a career is not just linked to how good you are at something. It is also about whether you like it (things like socialisation come into play), and if you want to work at it.

'The evidence has piled up for years. In 1990, Janet Shibley Hyde, PhD, a psychologist at the University of Wisconsin, and colleagues published a groundbreaking meta-analysis that compiled data from 100 different studies of math performance. Synthesizing data collected on more than 3 million participants between 1967 and 1987, the researchers found no large overall differences between boys and girls in math performance. Girls were slightly better at computation in elementary and middle school. In high school, boys showed a slight edge in problem solving, possibly because they took more science classes that emphasized those skills. But boys and girls understood math concepts equally well and any gender differences actually narrowed over the years, belying the notion of a fixed or biological differentiating factor.'

'The research suggests that perceived or actual differences in cognitive performance between males and females are most likely the result of social and cultural factors.that. For example, where girls and boys have differed on tests, researchers believe social context plays a significant role. Spelke believes that differences in career choices are due not to differing abilities but to cultural factors, such as subtle but pervasive gender expectations that kick in during high school and college.'

http://www.apa.org/action/resources/research-in-action/share.aspx

sunshineG:
so your arguments is only based on the social issues being a major reason for limited numbers of women in top position based on mental capacity, not that they will automatically be in top position if given the chance
Hope I made sense

Don't mind my pry 2 grammar

sunshineG:
1) some of the studies you use as evidence are cross sectional in nature ( which means the information were only collect at once from the participants and at a particular time) while these studies are great in measuring opinion of a certain place or people it will be very difficult to draw absolute conclusion from it

2)loosing of interest is something that happen in both genders. Although, it is true that women may be pressured into loosing interest more than men because of societal issues

3)I never dispute the cognitive performance of women in any way. However, does that mean that men who reach top position through their cognitive abilities wouldn't have done that if women are more motivated. I doubt it

hope I made sense

Gwaihir:
Why do you think women are not in top positions as proportionate to men?

Also how frequent do you see women pursuing a career in petroleum engineering or mechanical engineering? What are the probability that a woman would take up such pursuit given she has the mental capacity? Do you honestly think she would end up in an executive position in such career if she pursues it?

Do you know a woman was responsible for the capture of Bin Laden and she was chosen primarily based on social consideration than mental? Even as such,has there ever been a female CIA director?

If am not mistaken, i think the British monarchy were reluctant to make Elizabeth Queen despite by blood she qualifies than any other.

Take the Trump example over Clinton, neither of those two i like but Clinton was way more qualified than Trump and if Clinton were a man, do you think she would have lost, to Trump?