₦airaland Forum

asuustrike2009:
I quoted exactly as it's. When Jesus left had poverty not being in existence till date? The most developed countries in the world still have the poor among them talk less of Nigeria. Before oyedepo and like came there had being poor persons and it was so high that those days when a preacher preach, he's called a church rat how much members of the church. Poverty will never reduce if the mindset doesn't change. You teach a man how to catch fish not continue feeding him with fishes

But the Early Church worked so well that there was no needy person among them. How did they do it? Through love. But today, the average Christian has his mind on prosperity and will rather hoard up than give out. But what do you expect when such Christians have materialistic men as pastors.

plainbibletruth:
Petra1, How did Jesus's LIFESTYLE compare to that of his disciples? How did the Apostle's lifestyles compare to that of their followers? Do we see the WIDE DISPARITY we see today between many of today's church leaders and followers? If a Pastor is given a billion by members and within his congregation there are those of low means does it make sense for him to live in opulence and those other ones in squalor? Would Jesus or the Apostles have chosen to live on affluence when some in their congregation live from hand to mouth?

It will be wrong for us to generalize . Many pastors are “ suffering . I recently met a pastor in a village in delta charging his phone at a Petrol station who said God told him to leave his work as editor at NTA And move to his village to start a work . He has been there for over a year preaching . Village children and women who don’t even give offerings . I had to buy him a power bank and took his Account number to be sending him money . Many times he was tempted to quit but he said he heard clearly . He’s not a failure . It’s God that know what his assignment is

It will be a sin if we Christians join sinners to attack our own body by giving impression that pastors are enjoying people money . If for any reason God raise a man one day to bless the pastor I talked about for his faithfulness and buys him a car builds the church . People will look at the villagers and say “ there goes your money . Let’s not generalize .lets not even judge . It’s a sin because we lack necessary information . If we must judge , let’s judge righteously . Deal with a specific case and get proper information from both sides . Did he use church money to buy that car or build that school ? Etc let’s get the facts then look at it if they are in line or not .

The devil will always attack ministers . No matter how . Even Jesus was called 419

John 7:12 (TLB)
There was a lot of discussion about him among the crowds. Some said, "He's a wonderful man," while others said, "No, he's duping the public."
.

BluntBoy:
Then how come millions are still poor. What stops your pastors from rejecting the gifts and telling the givers to give it to the poor instead?

Why should he stop them . It is scriptural . Didn’t Jesus receive money and gift . Must we always judge ministers .

John 12:4-6 (KJV)
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Anyone who is concerned about the poor should simply give to the poor .

The pastors are just greedy, selfish and materialistic. A minister should never like money or the acquisition of properties. Money should mean nothing to a true man of God. These men are businessmen. They are no different from businessmen like Dangote.

That’s your opinion because of what you read online . How many pastors are you close to to know know their lifestyles and their giving to God and to people ? Have we found out ? Many ministers sponsor others whom they don’t know in schools . Even the ministers we criticize here like Apostle Suleiman has many many students he sponsors . He can’t hear that someone is suffering and can’t go to school . Last year a woman I know and related to me and had been very rebelous was assisted by Apostle Suleiman with 500,000 but . When I got to know was able to get Apostle’s number by a miracle and I complained to him about the woman . He said he doesn’t even know her that she had been disturbing him that Land lord was going to throw her out . He has to ask his wife to send her half a million . This is just a case out of many o . It’s ministers that are mostly helping the poor . We accuse them of not helping because we don’t know what they do . And when When they pubisize some of their charity work we still criticize them for it quoting. “LET NOT YOUR RIGHT HAND SEE WHAT YOUR LEFT IS DOING

petra1:
It will be wrong for us to generalize . Many pastors are “ suffering . I recently met a pastor in a village in delta charging his phone at a Petrol station who said God told him to leave his work as editor at NTA And move to his village to start a work . He has been there for over a year preaching . Village children and women who don’t even give offerings . I had to buy him a power bank and took his Account number to be sending him money . Many times he was tempted to quit but he said he heard clearly . He’s not a failure . It’s God that know what his assignment is

It will be a sin if we Christians join sinners to attack our own body by giving impression that pastors are enjoying people money . If for any reason God raise a man one day to bless the pastor I talked about for his faithfulness and buys him a car builds the church . People will look at the villagers and say “ there goes your money . Let’s not generalize .lets not even judge . It’s a sin because we lack necessary information . If we must judge , let’s judge righteously . Deal with a specific case and get proper information from both sides . Did he use church money to buy that car or build that school ? Etc let’s get the facts then look at it if they are in line or not .

The devil will always attack ministers . No matter how . Even Jesus was called 419

John 7:12 (TLB)
There was a lot of discussion about him among the crowds. Some said, "He's a wonderful man," while others said, "No, he's duping the public."

To generalize means, for example, to apply to ALL. I did not say all pastors.

I believe most, if not all, pastor will readily say they want to PATTERN their ministries after Christ's or at least even the Apostles.

My question therefore is: "How did Jesus's LIFESTYLE or those of the Apostles compare to that of their followers?"

And a follow-up : "Would Jesus or the Apostles have chosen to live in affluence when some in their congregation live from hand to mouth?"

plainbibletruth:
To generalize means, for example, to apply to ALL. I did not say all pastors.

As long as we are not dealing with a specific individual or his specific action to be judged by the word . As long as we say pastors” we are generalizing and helping the enemy against the church .

I believe most, if not all, pastor will readily say they want to PATTERN their ministries after Christ's or at least even the Apostles.

To a great extent Everyone have specific calling . You can only judge a man if You know his calling .
It’s only christ who calls that can judge a minister . But we can judge doctrines and character by the word . And you must hear the other side First because at least they should have a bible based reason . I would want to know what they believe . If there is error . It’s the belief system I need to judge . I have to be sure I am scriprurally cirrecr as well . I shouldn’t judge a man because inform like his style

My question therefore is: "How did Jesus's LIFESTYLE or those of the Apostles compare to that of their followers?"

You mean church members ? You have to be specifically clear

And a follow-up : "Would Jesus or the Apostles have chosen to live in affluence when some in their congregation live from hand to mouth?"

We have to be specific . I would have given you a straight “NO. But it shouldn’t be applied generally because cases differ .Affluence to A is different from B” .

Driving car is affluence to some but necessity to another . What Is the pastor affluence . A pastor lives in a big house and accommodates several people . Is it necessity or affluence . Mind you I know that any body can be materialistic . If a man of God is materialistic it’s not because he’s a pastor it’s his personal character . He’s judged as a christian . We judge false ministers by their doctrine . But personal character is Judged as a christian . We shouldn’t pick on ministers but we should deal with the character as a case study either you’re a minister or member .

The fact that a pastor has some poor brethren does mean he should be poor too .

John 12:4 (KJV)
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

Jesus didn’t say because people were poor he wouldn’t accept perfume. What the poor need firstly is teaching .

Luke 4:18 (KJV)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor

Secondly They should work and give .

2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJV)
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Ephesians 4:28 (KJV)
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.


I believe every church has plan to help the less privilege . You cannot be spoon feeding members . Many churches have to organize skill training programme even give capital or loans to brethren . Some brethren are very lazy . You can’t blame the pastor for that . They need discipline

petra1:
To a great extent Everyone have specific calling .

You mean church members ? You have to be specifically clear

We have to be specific . I would have given you a straight “NO. But it shouldn’t be applied generally because cases differ .Affluence to A is different from B”

I asked about Jesus, the Apostles and their followers and you still ask me to be specific? Seriously?

This is what happens when you assume an ulterior motive to a question and you now want to answer what you assume the questioner is getting at.

Petra1, I asked about Jesus and the Apostles so how specific do you want me to be?

The issue is, what would Jesus or the Apostles have done?

plainbibletruth:
I asked about Jesus, the Apostles and their followers and you still ask me to be specific? Seriously?

If I don’t get you clearly I should ask for clarity . Is it the followers of the apostles you’re taking about or the followers of the pastors .

This is what happens when you assume an ulterior motive to a question and you now want to answer what you assume the questioner is getting at.

Titus 1:15 (KJV)
15 Unto the pure all things are pure:

Dont assume

Petra1, I asked about Jesus and the Apostles so how specific do you want me to be?

The issue is, what would Jesus or the Apostles have done?

About what ? Let me read your post again . Maybe I’m not getting your point

As far as am concern, all pastors are scammers....using people gullibility to enrich themselves..

Look at the life of those who brought Christianity to us, see how they practice it..

look at a nation as poor as Nigeria where because u a man of God u buy jet...Where 70% of the citizenry can not eat 3 square meal a day.

Even nations that are well to do, their spiritual leaders don't do such.

you go to any Nigerian church and all you see is strive and porverty..yet the so call leader of such gathering is cruising around with Jet.

what is happening in Nigerian churches is the same thing happening in Nigeria. where leaders flex with people"s Money.

a situation where a spiritual leader wakes up one day and become rich in an environment where people can hardly eat. not that the so called leader discovered gold on the ground or he was Manufacturing a product or providing an essential services.

just because he was preaching about Jesus Christ. that people should accept Christ as there personal saviour....if that is justifiable, how come Jesus Christ and the disciple were not rich because they are also into gospel too.

they will still tell u that "yet they are of in this world but they are not of the world"

They are not of the world but love the things of the world...

the different is that Jesus and the Disciples never monetise the Gospel as seen today.

And the truth is that they will use their sweat to justify their greed...May God help us.

petra1:
You’re correct



Firstly is it every minister that is wealty? The one that you call wealthy have you found out the source . Church money is not Pastors money .

Bishop Oyedepo does not collect money from church . His plane was not bought offering . A pastor who give gets . A pastor who bless people get Blessed . I sent a Car gift twice to a pastor who helped me spiritually in the 90s . He’s a genuine man of God who sacrificed for me . He didn’t see it coming . He didn’t have a car . I traced his house and sent the car to him 2 times now. You heard how some members bought pastor Adeboye a jet . You heard how a member in winners built a church with billions as a gift to bishop oyedepo last week .

If a pastor make impact in lives of people . He can’t be forgotten . So if you see a pastor riding a car . Don’t think “here’s goes the offering

you are nothing but a big fool and a disgrace to not only your family but Nigeria as well. So you had no poor person to give around you? Have you ever been to an ophanage home? Who have you ever helped out of the gutter?? Is everyone in your family rich?? But you have time Tracing your fraudsterlent pastor's house because you believe he is the sole reason for your blessing and the reason god blessed you was to give him and him alone.......I shame for you walahi and your case is much more critical ,it will take more than a few online debate to redeem your head fr this stupidity.

That why Nigeria will never change because everyone is of the same mindset that govt will help each and everyone, if you and I took that tithe we give to these Yahoomen and give to the poor, others practice the same thing wouldn't there be a spread in wealth Ode!!! *Spits"

I think u are blessed abi, I laugh u and ur dirty peanut money, Even kidnapper Evans is better that you at least he gave to motherless homes

asuustrike2009:
The Bible made it clear in John 12:8 that there will always be poor among us. Even if bishop oyedepo sells his wealth to help the poor and needy,there will still be poverty. The poor had always being there from beginning

poverty is by grade, yes even you who is rich is also poor in the eyes of some but there is am average level of proverty that should be maintained that should bring any cause for alarm. Even America has poor ppl but their poor can only be compared to the average or even the rich here in Nigeria.....use ur head, u have no point, if you have then back it up with your Bible....think of it, why are these pastors so worried and restless, why can't one of them just come out and say ""okay oo, we don't need your tithe, keep ur tithe and see how god will Bleep you ur life real soon"""

I take gawd beg u bro, have sense and reason for a minute,

Abudu2000:
poverty is by grade, yes even you who is rich is also poor in the eyes of some but there is am average level of proverty that should be maintained that should bring any cause for alarm. Even America has poor ppl but their poor can only be compared to the average or even the rich here in Nigeria.....use ur head, u have no point, if you have then back it up with your Bible....think of it, why are these pastors so worried and restless, why can't one of them just come out and say ""okay oo, we don't need your tithe, keep ur tithe and see how god will Bleep you ur life real soon"""

I take gawd beg u bro, have sense and reason for a minute,

They are not restless. Should they say they don't want tithes in churches, they will pay dearly for it because God will deal with them squarely. Whatever a pastor preach in church must have biblical backing so if they say we shouldn't pay tithe whereas the Bible say otherwise, they have committed big sin. America poverty is low because it's their government not the churche same with Nigeria. There will always be poor people whether you like it or not. It has being like that from beginning

petra1:
It will be wrong for us to generalize . Many pastors are “ suffering . I recently met a pastor in a village in delta charging his phone at a Petrol station who said God told him to leave his work as editor at NTA And move to his village to start a work . He has been there for over a year preaching . Village children and women who don’t even give offerings . I had to buy him a power bank and took his Account number to be sending him money . Many times he was tempted to quit but he said he heard clearly . He’s not a failure . It’s God that know what his assignment is

It will be a sin if we Christians join sinners to attack our own body by giving impression that pastors are enjoying people money . If for any reason God raise a man one day to bless the pastor I talked about for his faithfulness and buys him a car builds the church . People will look at the villagers and say “ there goes your money . Let’s not generalize .lets not even judge . It’s a sin because we lack necessary information . If we must judge , let’s judge righteously . Deal with a specific case and get proper information from both sides . Did he use church money to buy that car or build that school ? Etc let’s get the facts then look at it if they are in line or not .

The devil will always attack ministers . No matter how . Even Jesus was called 419

John 7:12 (TLB)
There was a lot of discussion about him among the crowds. Some said, "He's a wonderful man," while others said, "No, he's duping the public."
.

so being a pastor automatically means you have to enjoy all the good things of life but being a member means your blessing is waiting in heaven when you die Abi? THIS is how I travelled to my village to find a Catholic father using a Corolla priced it at 5m, in a village where some can't even send their children to school, in a village where even most of them are almost clotheess yet church building alone by rough estimation is close to 60m..,the same politicians they accuse of stealing are now rubbing shoulder with these fraudsters , and it seems like a political officer will loot 1b and give 100m as tithe then the pastor will gladly bless him and open his gate of heaven for him...

If I reason how you sheeples have been caged, I'm almost in tears

Abudu2000:
so being a pastor automatically means you have to enjoy all the good things of life

What is wrong with having good things of life’. Is your life for suffering ?

3 John 1:2
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

but being a member means your blessing is waiting in heaven when you die Abi?

God blessing is for all . Brethren give testimony Day by day . They dedicate new cars some even give Car to their pastor . Poor sheepy are in the imagination of internet propagandist

THIS is how I travelled to my village to find a Catholic father using a Corolla priced it at 5m,

What if the car was bought by his children or an individual .just as you said Can a village church afford it . Did he buy it from offering? Does he have control to use church money to buy anything as he like ? Does he not have his stipends?

in a village where some can't even send their children to school, in a village where even most of them are almost clotheess yet church building alone by rough estimation is close to 60m..,the same politicians they accuse of stealing are now rubbing shoulder with these fraudsters , and it seems like a political officer will loot 1b and give 100m as tithe then the pastor will gladly bless him and open his gate of heaven for him...

If I reason how you sheeples have been caged, I'm almost in tears

Your anger is the comfort of the catholic priest . Even if it’s not church money .