felixomor:
Yes she had.
One was Joses, another Jude

she has not, Joseph is a widower, jude and Joses d are step brothers of Jesus.

Syncan:


It is because Firstborn is a reality and a title, It is used to refer to the one who opened a womb, it is conferred naturally at birth, it does not wait to be given only when you get siblings. see Ex.13:2

"Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine".

Oh i like your references and persuasion. Yet this is not to be taken that Mary never had other children. She continued to remain the wife of Joseph after the birth of Jesus. If the equation of Joseph is refutted of what essence was he in the entire picture?

Reading the gospel account leaves no room to draw conclusion that Mary continued to remain a virgin. Those said to be BROTHERS of Jesus were actually his half brothers, children of Mary by Joseph. Where the context suggests otherwise it would have been indicated.

For instance, Elizabeth was referred to as Mary's COUSIN, Luke 1.36. And the other gospel writers make clear that Jesus had sisters too.

As there were many Marys so there were many Josephs, Judahs, Simeon, etc. And to a large extent some of these are actually related in some way. If those referred to as BROTHERS of Jesus were cousins or nephews, this would have been captured.

Joseph might have died before Jesus, hence Jesus handed his mother over to John his disciple-friend closest to him. Why? Apparently because his own half brothers by Mary were not yet believers according to John 7:5. But after his death, they became believers that is why subsequent Bible writers like Paul while writing endeavoured to differentiate the direct brothers of Jesus as he did in his letters at Galatians 1:19 and 1st Corinthians 9:5.

The apostle Luke who identified Elizabeth at Luke 1:36 would have done the same while referring to Jesus' half brothers as BROTHERS at Acts 1:14.

Yes, Mary had other children after her virgin birth of Jesus, hence Jesus is rightly called Mary's FIRSTBORN son, Luke 2:6-7.

In all, however, it does not justify praying through Mary or in her name when there is a clear command and principle that prayers should be said to God THROUGH Jesus Christ, who himself says I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me, John 14:6

1. James
2. Joses
3. Simon
4. Judas

Junny04:
1. James
2. Joses
3. Simon
4. Judas

The bible said they were Jesus brothers but never said Mary's children.

Seek the counsel of those who study the bible for about ten years. CATHOLIS PRIEST OR ANY MATURED CATHOLIC. if i were with you face to face i did help.let me just give you a hint.
1. MARY DID NOT BECOZ
2. Joseph the husband died early
3.some do say that john the beloved is his broda,he is not...

arsenic33:
Bible or Pastor who I go ask?

A TRUE CATHOLIC,TELL THEM. THEY CARRY BIBLE AROUNT WITHOUT KNOWING THE CONTENT AND THE TRADITIONS OF THE HEBREW.

Aleis:

Mary has no child apart from Jesus, that is why she still refer as Virgin.
IN the Hebrew, there is no clear distinction BTW cousins, brother and sons. Those u see mentioned, are his cousins not brothers.

Investnow2017:


Oh i like your references and persuasion. Yet this is not to be taken that Mary never had other children. She continued to remain the wife of Joseph after the birth of Jesus. If the equation of Joseph is refutted of what essence was he in the entire picture?

Reading the gospel account leaves no room to draw conclusion that Mary continued to remain a virgin. Those said to be BROTHERS of Jesus were actually his half brothers, children of Mary by Joseph. Where the context suggests otherwise it would have been indicated.

For instance, Elizabeth was referred to as Mary's COUSIN, Luke 1.36. And the other gospel writers make clear that Jesus had sisters too.

As there were many Marys so there were many Josephs, Judahs, Simeon, etc. And to a large extent some of these are actually related in some way. If those referred to as BROTHERS of Jesus were cousins or nephews, this would have been captured.

Joseph might have died before Jesus, hence Jesus handed his mother over to John his disciple-friend closest to him. Why? Apparently because his own half brothers by Mary were not yet believers according to John 7:5. But after his death, they became believers that is why subsequent Bible writers like Paul while writing endeavoured to differentiate the direct brothers of Jesus as he did in his letters at Galatians 1:19 and 1st Corinthians 9:5.

The apostle Luke who identified Elizabeth at Luke 1:36 would have done the same while referring to Jesus' half brothers as BROTHERS at Acts 1:14.

Yes, Mary had other children after her virgin birth of Jesus, hence Jesus is rightly called Mary's FIRSTBORN son, Luke 2:6-7.

In all, however, it does not justify praying through Mary or in her name when there is a clear command and principle that prayers should be said to God THROUGH Jesus Christ, who himself says I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me, John 14:6

Please understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than brothers of same womb. One could take it to mean biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

There is NO WHERE in scripture where those people were called CHILDREN OF MARY, but every where you see Mary mother of Jesus.

Again I maintain that EX.13:2 continues to tell us that you do not wait till you get siblings before dedicating the "Firstborn" to God. Firstborn is not first out of many, but first to open the womb, this is scripture speaking and i have shown you where. Jesus is Firstborn because He opened the womb of Mary, not because he is first among many.

Investnow2017:


Oh i like your references and persuasion. Yet this is not to be taken that Mary never had other children. She continued to remain the wife of Joseph after the birth of Jesus. If the equation of Joseph is refutted of what essence was he in the entire picture?

Reading the gospel account leaves no room to draw conclusion that Mary continued to remain a virgin. Those said to be BROTHERS of Jesus were actually his half brothers, children of Mary by Joseph. Where the context suggests otherwise it would have been indicated.

For instance, Elizabeth was referred to as Mary's COUSIN, Luke 1.36. And the other gospel writers make clear that Jesus had sisters too.

As there were many Marys so there were many Josephs, Judahs, Simeon, etc. And to a large extent some of these are actually related in some way. If those referred to as BROTHERS of Jesus were cousins or nephews, this would have been captured.

Joseph might have died before Jesus, hence Jesus handed his mother over to John his disciple-friend closest to him. Why? Apparently because his own half brothers by Mary were not yet believers according to John 7:5. But after his death, they became believers that is why subsequent Bible writers like Paul while writing endeavoured to differentiate the direct brothers of Jesus as he did in his letters at Galatians 1:19 and 1st Corinthians 9:5.

The apostle Luke who identified Elizabeth at Luke 1:36 would have done the same while referring to Jesus' half brothers as BROTHERS at Acts 1:14.

Yes, Mary had other children after her virgin birth of Jesus, hence Jesus is rightly called Mary's FIRSTBORN son, Luke 2:6-7.

In all, however, it does not justify praying through Mary or in her name when there is a clear command and principle that prayers should be said to God THROUGH Jesus Christ, who himself says I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me, John 14:6

In the Jewish tradition a firstborn son has a special significance Ex 34:19 -20
The first offspring from every womb belongs to Me, and all your male livestock, the first offspring from cattle and sheep. "You shall redeem with a lamb the first offspring from a donkey; and if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck You shall redeem all the firstborn of your sons None shall appear before Me empty-handed.

An only child qualifies as a firstborn.

Oma307:
she had other children

She didn't not...with evidence

You can't defend what you don't know. Mary has no other child/ren apart from Jesus

Aleis:

Mary has no child apart from Jesus, that is why she still refer as Virgin.
IN the Hebrew, there is no clear distinction BTW cousins, brother and sons. Those u see mentioned, are his cousins not brothers.

When you said he that is why she is always refer to as Virgin. Where in the Bible is Mary always refers to as Virgin Mary apart from Catholic church doctrine.
Are you telling me Joseph did not have sex with many after Jesus was born. If he did how is Mary always a virgin?,,

Mark 6:3 "This is the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon, is it not? And his sisters are here with us, are they not?” So they began to stumble because of him."

That scripture indicate that Mary have other children. She never remain a virgin through out her life

Some verses in the holy scriptures referring to first born son. There is a special significance to a firstborn. It does not depend on having more than one child

Exodus 4:22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus said the LORD, Israel is my son, …

Exodus 13:2 Sanctify to me all the firstborn, whatever opens the womb among the …

Deuteronomy 21:17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, …

Psalm 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them…

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should …

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. …

Primebuilders:


When you said he that is why she is always refer to as Virgin. Where in the Bible is Mary always refers to as Virgin Mary apart from Catholic church doctrine.
Are you telling me Joseph did not have sex with many after Jesus was born. If he did how is Mary always a virgin?,,

Mark 6:3 "This is the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon, is it not? And his sisters are here with us, are they not?” So they began to stumble because of him."

That scripture indicate that Mary have other children. She never remain a virgin through out her life

Isaiah 7:14, Mathew 1:23
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.

Syncan:



hahahaha, now you want scripture to mention the four, when scripture already mentioned them in an earlier verse, so each time scripture mentions them it should call the four right, You should tell that to Jude who was mentioned as one of them, but decided to say thus :Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James. Tell Jude to mention others too na. Note he called himself servant of Jesus, but brother of James. Same James whose brothers are also Simon and Joses, and whose mother is the wife of cleopas and not Joseph. MK.15:40, Jn19:25

Like I stated you've brought assumptions into this. The Bible didn't speak of the Pharisees referring to Mary's sister but directly mentioned those names as Jesus' brothers.

They are the ones given birth to after the birth of Christ.

When you quoted Jude 1:1, it doesn't validate any point as to no existence of Jude being Jesus' brother. Can I show you what Galatians 1:19 says - I saw none of the other apostles —only James, the Lord’s brother.

Tell me, if the Bible also made an error here.

We speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where it doesn't

bros clean ya mouth...Joseph consumated his marriage oh...cos he had other children and it was mentioned in the bible..when they came to see him

AkunnaTochi:


Yes, it is possible Joseph never consummated his marriage. You are trying to analyse an event that took place over 2000 years with your 21st century brain.

AkunnaTochi:


Yes, it is possible Joseph never consummated his marriage. You are trying to analyse an event that took place over 2000 years with your 21st century brain.

So ur 21st century brain tells u dat pple of 2000 years ago gets married only to be starring at their wife for d rest of their life. U're obviously a Catholic, u guy are always clouded with doctrines.
In Mathew 1 Vs 25 Jesus was referred to as the 'FIRST BORN CHILD' of Mary, does dat mean anything to u?
Also on dat same verse, dat Joseph did not sleep with Mary was b4 she gave birth to Jesus, the Bible says TILL she gave birth, take note of the word 'TILL'
So please read d passage I gave u nd think like a human being.

Syncan:


Please understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than brothers of same womb. One could take it to mean biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

There is NO WHERE in scripture where those people were called CHILDREN OF MARY, but every where you see Mary mother of Jesus.

Again I maintain that EX.13:2 continues to tell us that you do not wait till you get siblings before dedicating the "Firstborn" to God. Firstborn is not first out of many, but first to open the womb, this is scripture speaking and i have shown you where. Jesus is Firstborn because He opened the womb of Mary, not because he is first among many.

It was Luke who reported Elizabeth being the COUSIN of Mary. If the biological brothers of Jesus were cousins or nephews Luke would have indicated that when writing the book of Acts of the apostles Chapter 1:14.

If Joseph had other children BEFORE Jesus, where does the Bible say that?

Mary was bethrothed to Joseph before Jesus was born. Why would Joseph want to marry if he had no need to have children. If he never wanted a child would he not have voiced his complaint when he noticed that Mary was pregnant. Was it the custom of the Jews back then to marry without the prospect of raising children?

Those who knew better referred to Jesus as having brothers and sisters as reported in the Holy Scriptures.Mark 6:3, 1st Cor 9:5 etc.

Of most important though is the vital role of Jesus Christ in the outworking of God's purpose to sanctify his illustrious Name.

BenzEne1:


Ummm, it's true the mods for some ignoble reason put the shahadah as a requirement for comments on an Islamic topic. I dunno about mist muslims on here but its totally flawed. I think.some muslims feel the insults from you folks aren't permissible. This doesn't stop some of you from clicking yes to the shahadah and spewing same insults. So its really not useful. And a gain our prophet has told us to seek for knowledge and teach others that knowledge for some have been misled about affairs of the religion. If the mods could take down the shahadah and employ it for its real purpose in welcoming converts, it would give us that much needed civility.

Then to your.insults tho. Are those really necessary. I'm a muslim and I'm circumcised. I would show it to you but that is haram and unethical. Where do you get the idea that muslims don't circumcise. This is another reason you need the right knowledge about Islam.

o brother u hv a clear knowkedge of wat Islam is all abt e.g. 9/11, France-charlie hebdou, ISIS, BH e.t.c

Nauttyprof:


Like I stated you've brought assumptions into this. The Bible didn't speak of the Pharisees referring to Mary's sister but directly mentioned those names as Jesus' brothers.

They are the ones given birth to after the birth of Christ.

When you quoted Jude 1:1, it doesn't validate any point as to no existence of Jude being Jesus' brother. Can I show you what Galatians 1:19 says - I saw none of the other apostles —only James, the Lord’s brother.

Tell me, if the Bible also made an error here.

We speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where it doesn't

The quote on Gal 1:19 Says James is the Lord brother. Now check Luke 6:15. You would see that this James is also the son of Alpheus. The other James is the Son of Zebedee

jamislaw:
Nawao for this ur religion o, Your god has four Brothers, I can't stop laughing.

TELL US MORE ABOUT AISHA, D little 6 yrs old girl, dem d oldman no take am easy on her though.

Here is my thought on the whole issue;

Jesus was the first son of Joseph through the conception of the holy Spirit.

Mary and Joseph tried having other children but it didn't work because no man can share the same place with the Lord of host.

Joseph married other wives and bored half brothers and sisters for Jesus....

Mary died as the only woman to conceive through divine intervention but as a virgin, after her childbirth, her hymen was already broken. It is safe to say, she was no longer a virgin after Christ birth but remained the mother through holy conception.

Hati13:
Investnow2017,

The Ethiopian Bible is the most completed one compared to others.

Apart from the book of Enoch, what other extra books (also not found in the catholic bible) does it have?

BenzEne1:


Ummm, it's true the mods for some ignoble reason put the shahadah as a requirement for comments on an Islamic topic. I dunno about mist muslims on here but its totally flawed. I think.some muslims feel the insults from you folks aren't permissible. This doesn't stop some of you from clicking yes to the shahadah and spewing same insults. So its really not useful. And a gain our prophet has told us to seek for knowledge and teach others that knowledge for some have been misled about affairs of the religion. If the mods could take down the shahadah and employ it for its real purpose in welcoming converts, it would give us that much needed civility.

Then to your.insults tho. Are those really necessary. I'm a muslim and I'm circumcised. I would show it to you but that is haram and unethical. Where do you get the idea that muslims don't circumcise. This is another reason you need the right knowledge about Islam.

o yea i do hv a perfect knowledge of Islam; 9/11, FRANCE; CHARLIE HEBDOU, BH, ISIS e.t.c.

toye440:

I notice NL to b a very bias platform. on Fridays wen this uncircumcised Philistines upload their trash Christians r blocked from commenting, in fact u hv to take oath. but wen it comes to Christian matters every Philistine is given access easily. Since wen has NL start taking sides?

I wonder why it is so, everything about them speaks of violence, how can I take oath just to comment on their thread.

toye440:

o yea i do hv a perfect knowledge of Islam; 9/11, FRANCE; CHARLIE HEBDOU, BH, ISIS e.t.c.

These are acts of terror. Some muslims carry out acts of terror same as some christians. This does not mean the christianity or islam is about violence. If you can back that up with detailed teachings from the quran or sunnah of the prophet. You would have a point then.

Investnow2017:


It is a pity. So those books encourage you to pray through Mary and maintain that she remained a virgin after giving birth to Jesus.

How much are you familiar with the 66 books that make up the Bible that you have to go reading books that cannot claim any inspiration from God? Like i said earlier God sealed his inspired book the Bible urging everyone not to add or take away - Revelation 22: 18,19. Here God is presenting the Bible to us as a COMPLETE book and so it has proved to be for those who exercise faith in God and in his Only Begotten son Jesus Christ.
I encourage you to spend quality time to read the Bible daily - it means your life.

Don't deceive yourself like as if the bible is infallible.And what I wrote has nothing to do with catholicism If you like believe it or not.Nigerian Christians want to know more than the people that brought it.

Ezumakingsley:
Seek the counsel of those who study the bible for about ten years. CATHOLIS PRIEST OR ANY MATURED CATHOLIC. if i were with you face to face i did help.let me just give you a hint.
1. MARY DID NOT BECOZ
2. Joseph the husband died early
3.some do say that john the beloved is his broda,he is not...

Where in d bible was it written dat Joseph died early. Even if he did, How early was it? Twelve years after their marriage and after d birth of Jesus, was it not Mary and Joseph dat was Luking for Jesus when Jesus was teaching d elders? let's assume he died after dat event, So 4 twelve years he was starring at his wife abi?

Syncan:


Answers
1a. 1 Timothy 4:13, Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?

1b. 1corinthians 15:25, For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet

Does this mean Christ reign will end afterwards?

2. Firstborn is a reality and a title, It is used to refer to the one who opened a womb, it is conferred naturally at birth, it does not wait to be given only when you get siblings. see Ex.13:2

"Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine".

You are making a rookie grammatical error in thinking that, the usage of 'until' in 1 Tim4:13 and 1 Cort 15:25 are the same as 'till' used in Matt 1:24-25...

1. Mathew was writing from a historical perspective and as a third person, narrating events that took place in the past and here Mathew wrote that, 'Joseph did not consummate his marriage until after Mary gave birth to Jesus'. He was giving account f what has occurred and was not quoting the scriptures, not quoting the old testament...Paul was writing as a first person giving instruction to Timothy do something until he comes. The clear interpretation of this is, Paul will give Timothy further instructions when he eventually came, but there was no indication that he did.

2. Mathew rendition clearly told us what happened on either side of the word 'till or until'...before the 'till' Joseph did not consummate his marriage and after the 'till' he did....you are clearly ignoring the grammatical implication of the inclusion of the word not. Once you include 'not', you are clearly connecting two opposite events or things...Paul in the writings you indicated, did not use that connection. e.g.

a. Kanu was popular when he was playing in the premiership league.
b. Kanu was not popular until he was playing in the premiership league.

The first statement only gave us the account of his popularity when he was playing in the premiership league and was silent if he was popular or not before then, this is Paul's usage in the writings you quoted. However, the inclusion of 'not' in the second statement clearly tells us that, he was not popular until he started playing in the premiership league, this was the usage in Matthew 1:24-25.

Finally, Mathew and Luke used 'firstborn son' and not 'firstborn' which have a special meaning in the Bible.

Nauttyprof:


Like I stated you've brought assumptions into this. The Bible didn't speak of the Pharisees referring to Mary's sister but directly mentioned those names as Jesus' brothers.

They are the ones given birth to after the birth of Christ.

When you quoted Jude 1:1, it doesn't validate any point as to no existence of Jude being Jesus' brother. Can I show you what Galatians 1:19 says - I saw none of the other apostles —only James, the Lord’s brother.

Tell me, if the Bible also made an error here.

We speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where it doesn't

The first bold: You can never show me where you got that assumption from scripture, so you are now the one speaking where the bible was silent.

Second bold: Which error are you talking about, I have shown you who the mother of those mentioned is, Scripture clearly pointed it out, so you won't be in this error, but you still fell into it.

Chronology of events:

1. The names were mentioned as brothers of Jesus (Note:not children of Mary), Mk.6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

2. The mother of those brethren of Jesus is mentioned .......MK.15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome".Mk15:40

3. The woman is identified properly... john19:25."Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene".

4. The earlier mentioned Jude confirms he is brother of James, who is also son of the other Mary in Jude 1:1 "Jude, servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James".

5. This James called brother of Jesus is also His apostle, James the less. Gal 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother"

Now from the above, counting from

5. We see that James the less is the apostle of Jesus and mentioned as his brother,
4, we see that this James has a brother who is Jude,
3, We see wife of cleopas identified
2, we see that James has another brother who is Joses, and their mother is "wife of cleopas" as seen in 3.
1, All three brothers are mentioned including Simon as brothers of Jesus, but we have already now identified at least Joses and James as Children of the other Mary, wife of cleopas.

This is scripture.

BenzEne1:


These are acts of terror. Some muslims carry out acts of terror same as some christians. This does not mean the christianity or islam is about violence. If you can back that up with detailed teachings from the quran or sunnah of the prophet. You would have a point then.

Guess this should do for more pls let me know

joey150:


Lol. Shey una no dey think?

When revelation was written, was there a bible?
Did it even exist?

Common sense should tell you that the phrase is referring to only the book of revelation.

Quick to argue, slow to think.

What you find at Revelation is equally written in Deuteronmy 4:2. God is simply telling us to be careful not to add to his word. It is a tone that resonates throughout the Bible. Gal 1:8, 1st Cor 4:6. Do not go beyond the things that are written.

That is the point dear.