₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
1) What of those that believe with no fruits to show for their faith?

2) Is God a Christian or a Jewish God? How was Job able to please God without being a Jew or following Jewish rites?

3) Per the bolded, what makes one an unbeliever?

As for me, on a personal note...it makes no sense to reject Jesus now that I know who HE REALLY IS...

damosky12:
A man is saved when he believes the gospel, not by works. Mark 16:16, John 3:18.

ROM 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto Righteousness.
ROM 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore, we conclude that a man us justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
ROM 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.

The confusion often come from James where he also lays emphasis on WORKS (of love) to be added to faith. A careful study of that portion will help us know that it was only an admonition for Christians to demonstrate their faith with works of love. It is however not saying that Christians who fall short here will go to hell.

See 1 Corinthians 3:3, they had envy, strife and divisions among themselves. They were carnal (worldly). Yet, he called them "babes IN CHRIST".



I answered you earlier.

Romans 2:14-16
[14] For when the Gentiles (non Jews), which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
[16]In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

That's how those in that category were judged.




Its straightforward. An unbeliever is one who rejects the gospel of Christ.

soulpeppersoup:
So you think God was stupid to make Jesus the only way to heaven and not love? If Abraham reasoned out all the instructions of God the way we do now, there would not have been Christianity through him.

Jesus preached to the dead before him. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1 Peter 4:6 (KJV)

After you have lost your faith through human knowledge don't blame anyone but yourself if you are a christian.

WhiskeyTangoFox:
U never said tithe was mandatory, bt some pastors try to pass d impression dat divine favor will elude those dat dnt pay tithes, thus, making it an obligation for "true christians". I am yet to see or read freeze attack men of God dat emphasise on loving ur neighbour as urself, which we all know is the biggest problem our country faces today. I hope u haven't read one of his posts dat had sarcasm written all over and misunderstood the message being passed. Please, clearly state when he has gone beyond tithes and attacked other aspects of Christianity without any valid basis. He spoke about Christmas and he has a point, until someone identifies where in the bible it was encouraged to celebrate the birth of Christ as we do His death.

Freeze's initial opinion about tithes "may" have bin subjective, aggressive and unlike a Christian to some, bt as soon as he began using the scripture to corroborate his point, those subjective opinions are becoming objective. Being gullible or a fanatic doesn't mean one is deep in the Christian race, please take note of dat. We tend to blur dat line so easily. You want him to show respect to pastors dat use the scripture to fuel their personal interest via capitalising on the gullible, I think not. They deserve to be called out as aggressively as possible. It is only in naija dat one wld b deemed as antichrist if u stand up to a pastor, dat's y u see alot of pple setting up churches, cos dey tend to leverage on dat. Even if he isn't born again, it doesn't mean he's lying on this subject matter. Say hypothetically he isn't born again, are u telling me he is incapable of the truth even if few times? Haba, even a faulty clock is right twice a day. My brother, I see this ur post encapsulating sentiments which shldn't be. U clearly dnt support his approach, dat's fine, bt doesn't mean he is talking trash. I respect him even more for going against the grain and standing up to what he believes in regarding a very sensitive topic. I repeat, no pro-tither or pastor has been able to back up their point with the scripture as much as freeze has done. He gave a good example of how polygamy and vengeance was supported in the old testament along with tithes, but pastors deliberately ignore the former two, yet hang on to the practise of tithes. Pls tell me why dat's the case? It's either we abide to all the examples mentioned, or drop them all completely. It is this mentality dat has made religion become a burden to dis country, amongst other factors, and it has to stop if we are to progress as Christians, and as a nation.

OkCornel:
Per the bolded in red, does Faith without works qualify one for Heaven? What lessons do you take from the following?

1) The Barren fig tree Jesus cursed
2) Jesus' sermon on the true vine - especially where dead branches are involved...
3) Parable of the talents

damosky12:
In Bible interpretation, its smarter to avoid building a doctrine on Parables. Parables were given for a reason. Jesus made that known to us.

Matthew 13:10-15
[10]And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11]He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
[12]For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
[13]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[14]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[15]For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Now, close to the end of his earthly ministery, Jesus also made it known that until they received the holy Spirit (which comes with salvation), they wouldn't understand certain things he would teach them.

John 16:12-13
[12]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

That leads us to one thing. THE EPISTLES (Romans to Jude) are the books written to the Christian. They are the books to build doctrines on.

You don't build doctrines on parables now that we have the meaning of the Parables.

That's why Paul would later say
2 Corinthians 3:12
[12]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:


No more parables. The answers are revealed in the epistles.

If we are to debate on parables, there will be confusion as to its actual interpretation, hence that's why we got the epistles written to the Christian in PLAIN SPEECH.

OkCornel:
Just to further buttress your position, I find it somewhat ridiculous that someone would state tithing which is a Jewish custom to be mandatory to Christianity.

I wonder if soulpeppersoup ever bothered to ask if Hebrews was addressed to Jewish Christians or to Gentile believers... I also wonder if Paul wrote that letter with the mindset that it would be for those existing 2000 years later in Africa after he wrote that epistle...

It would be nice if soulpeppersoup can bring out further points on tithing from any of the letters Paul addressed to the Gentile church.
Of course he can't because tithing never applied to Gentile Christians nor is it obligatory on the Jewish Christians in the first place!

Cheers.

OkCornel:
Just to further buttress your position, I find it somewhat ridiculous that someone would state tithing which is a Jewish custom to be mandatory to Christianity.

I wonder if soulpeppersoup ever bothered to ask if Hebrews was addressed to Jewish Christians or to Gentile believers... I also wonder if Paul wrote that letter with the mindset that it would be for those existing 2000 years later in Africa after he wrote that epistle...

It would be nice if soulpeppersoup can bring out further points on tithing from any of the letters Paul addressed to the Gentile church.
Of course he can't because tithing never applied to Gentile Christians nor is it obligatory on the Jewish Christians in the first place!

Cheers.

paxonel:
You are absolutely correct bro,
Most of these things we read in scriptures are what happened in the past, about 2000 years ago, some of which do not apply anymore this current day.
Even today Jews don't pay tithe anymore. They keep wondering, what are today christians doing especially in Africa?

paxonel:
You are absolutely correct bro,
Most of these things we read in scriptures are what happened in the past, about 2000 years ago, some of which do not apply anymore this current day.
Even today Jews don't pay tithe anymore. They keep wondering, what are today christians doing especially in Africa?

MarchLegend:
Bro u have nailed it hook, line and sinker. Nothing more to be said to that dude.
Personally I do not like Daddy Freeze as an individual. But when it comes to issues of the bible, especially tithing, the dude is the messiah.
How come no pastor, most of whom have spent decades studying the bible, most of whom have had bible schools way before freeze was born, most of whom have taught pastors who have taught pastors etc, cannot come out to dispel Daddy Freeze with one (just one) biblical backing to dismiss all his points?
You see, Christians in this part of the world are majorly hypocrites. When u try to criticise their pastor, they say the devil is using u, but when he does obvious wrong (like divorce or infidelity) they say he's human.
At Shiloh 2016, Oyedepo said 'the only way to prosperity is through tithing and sacrificial giving to the church, no two ways about it'. My people abeg make una help me judge am rationally if na true. I was watching it live. Nobody, not even a single person during d testimonies talked about God blessing dem freely. They either gave cars, salary, or whatever to the church before God blessed them. Even the couple that had twins. (Let me not even go there). I was just shaking my head and looking at d gullible people shouting upandan. Even my friend dat invited me felt ashamed when I mentioned to him dat the church is a rip off.

Anyways, all that matters to me is love to mankind. I don't bloody care about being a church member or tithe payer. Nuff said

Idecievedyou:
ok listen to your self quoting the Bible without understanding..its shows its shows you have a long way to go understanding the scripture...its funny how you think jesus actually preached to the dead..a part in the Bible your read and took literally...it must be a massive crusade jesus had with the dead...may be we should all be allowed to live our sinful lives without the knowledge of Christ then later get saved in an unpleasant state called death..my dear I do not think God is stupid at all from creation human has what we call WILL u can either do good or evil with this will of your....and without the knowledge of the existence of Christ been a preacher of love and righteousness, when a person is doing the wrong thing he knows when he or she does evil he knows...and the reason why people the evil is people their is a shortage of love in their heart..without you can't be righteous...now for God so love the word that he gave his only be gotten son that who so ever believes in him should not die but have everlasting life..out of love God gave his son the righteous one..love came first and for you to even confess Jesus you have to see the love of God first true that LOVE heaven smiles on all...Amen.!

soulpeppersoup:
What you are saying is that Christ death didn't bring the gentile into the blessings of Abraham? Selective word study is dangerous.

OkCornel:
I thought the parables were clear enough with intepretations for some of them by Jesus Himself...e.g. Parable of the seedsower

My question remains...can a dead faith i.e. Faith without works qualify one for Heaven?

damosky12:
Why go for parables when the epistles were addressed to answer your questions?

Galatians 3:6-11
[6]Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7]Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8]And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9]So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[10]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[11]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

A man is saved by faith ONLY.

It is Religion that teach people that you have to "bribe" God with good works to be qualified before him. We are saved by faith ONLY.

It is out of love for God and for men (that He loves) that we do good works. That's what the epistles teach holistically.

soulpeppersoup:
What the word says is what I follow not my thinking. Now in the realm of the spirit a thought connects all the spirit that thought is meant for at once not separately. I mean thought.

OkCornel:
But the same Epistle states that Faith without works is dead OR are you also implying Jesus did not have a reason for;

> Teaching the Parable of the Talents
> Preaching sermon on the True vine
> Cursing the Barren fig tree?


Please tell me what differentiates the sheeps from the goats in Matthew 25 v 31-46, is it faith alone?

Afterall, even the goats know and believe Jesus as well, that's why they were surprised and asked Jesus the questions they asked Him and Jesus still told them "I KNOW YOU NOT"

Being fruitful or having works to show for your faith does not translate to "bribing" God...

Don't fall for the trap of practicing or encouraging others to practice a dead faith without works (fruits) to show for it...

Cheers

damosky12:
You seem fixated in this parable bla bla bla. Your meanings of the Parables are definitely not the true interpretation. So, let's mind the epistles instead.

Did James say that a man who has faith without works is condemned?

Why would Paul call a carnal, envying and fighting Corinthian church "babies IN CHRIST" and not children of the devil?

Why will the epistles teach that "a man is saved by faith, the just lives by faith, whosoever believes is saved, etc" and then later say "until you do good works, you are not saved by faith?

Is it not clear that something is wrong with such an interpretation?

OkCornel:
So what differentiates a sheep from a goat as per Matthew 25 v 31-46...is it Faith alone?

At least Matthew 25 v 31-46 is not a parable na...

damosky12:
It is what distinct them in Mark 16:16, John 3:18, John 5:24, 6:35, 6:40....

Goats don't obey the gospel. Sheeps believe the gospel. Its so simple.

OkCornel:
And the gospel preaches faith alone?

Kindly read what Jesus held against the goats...it wasn't their faith or belief in Him...but no actions (fruit or results from love) to show for it

damosky12:
Lol. Then the benevolent atheists would make heaven if its about giving. Didn't you observe that Jesus didn't say anything at all about believing in that portion.

If that's your basis, then we you are saying we should forget believing the gospel for sharing goods.

Nasa28:
I am in support of no one, but my dear, I am not sure freeze ever said you should not give to the pastors. personally i believe in free will giving. Let the word of God lead you and not sentiment or sympathy. What did Jesus teach about tithe, what did the apostles teach?

Why are we still binding ourselves to the law? Are you still under the Law? If you are, then Check your foundation. When people talk about this issue of tithe, it pains me because they tend to portray God as only someone who repays. God gives freely to his people, just believe in Christ. And when you believe and love God you will be able to give freely if you have to. Freewill giving is what should be encouraged .

Anything given out of fear or compulsion is like sowing to the flesh and you will reap corruption

OkCornel:
Matthew 25:31-46

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

31 ¶ [a]And when the Son of man cometh in his glory and all the holy Angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory,

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations, and he shall separate them one from another as a shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats.

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, and the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the king say to them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of my father: take the inheritance of the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I thirsted, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in unto you.

36 I was naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?

38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in unto us? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the king shall answer, and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me.

41 Then shall he say to them on the left hand, Depart from me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I thirsted, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in unto you: I was naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, and say, Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting pain, and the righteous into life eternal.

James 1:27
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God, even the Father, is this, to visit the fatherless, and widows in their adversity, and to keep himself unspotted of the world.

OkCornel:
Faith and Works (Fruits & Results) must complement each other...they cannot be mutually exclusive...

That's my point. Try not to read portions of the bible in isolation. Moreso, the teachings of Jesus is the core of the Bible...anything that digresses from it is one-chance mehn...

damosky12:
Try read Bible in context.
The teachings of Jesus are NOT the core of the Bible. See.

John 16:12-13
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


If the Bible were complete with the sayings of Jesus, He wouldn't have said the bolded. The epistles came by the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through the Apostles.
The epistles are the message to the church.


A man is saved ONLY by faith. I showed it over and over in previous posts. He only dies good works as a function of how much of Gods word he is got in him.


You aren't saved by how you live. You are saved by believing the gospel ONLY.

ROM 10:7-10

soulpeppersoup:
What you are saying is that Christ death didn't bring the gentile into the blessings of Abraham? Selective word study is dangerous.

OkCornel:
My brother...the thing just tire me mehn...the way some people dey read their bible sef, too much knowledge with little understanding to back it up.

Reminds of me students cramming stuffs just to pass exams for passing sake and not to understand what they are reading...

deebrownneymar:
You keep proving my point

paxonel:
Error