₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
Can you believe in the gospel without any fruits or results to show for it? What kind of gospel or belief is that?

You think a Faith without anything tangible to show for it takes you to Heaven just like that?

Argue with this clear statements:

Romans 3:24-27
[24]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Law of faith and works. Big NO.

Romans 5:1-2
[1]Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[2]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

JUSTIFIED by faith and works? NO!

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

With the heart man believeth and works towards righteousness? NO! He believes unto righteousness.

Galatians 2:16
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, [/b]and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Too clear!

Galatians 5:4-5
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Simply RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH.

[b] These are not parables subject to different meanings. They were not spoken before Christianity. These are the statements addressed to Christians in plain speeches.

Why build your life on statements not precisely addressed at you?

Then that could mean that the Parable of the Talents or the sermon on the True Vine by Jesus holds no water then...or maybe Jesus just cursed the barren fig tree for fun.

Here we go again with the parables.
Parables, as shown in Matthew 13:10-15 are not for us. They are meant to conceal meaning. Its from the word parabolē which means symbol. Its like riddles.

Its not meant for you to build a doctrine on it. Jesus spoke mostly in parables. He was speaking to men and women who were of the flesh: not saved.
That's why Paul will say this in the New Testament in comparison to the time before Jesus died.

2 Corinthians 3:12
[12]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

PLAIN TEACHING. NOT SYMBOLS.

The gospels and old testament are to be judged with respect to the epistles. They aren't addressed to the church.
ONLY the epistles are written to the church.

If I might ask...what makes one a good and faithful servant?

Do you recall where Jesus preached about two sons where one promised to do the work on his father's farm but did not do it eventually BUT the other son initially stated he won't do it BUT changed his mind and did it later? Any lessons from the teachings of Jesus here?

By the way...if you clearly understand what James said by "Faith without works is dead"... IF YOU HAVE A FAITH THAT HAS NOTHING (FRUITS OR WORKS) TO SHOW FOR IT...SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT FAITH

Lol. Parable again. Even that parable was meant to tackle the Pharisees who wouldn't submit themselves to the Lordship of Jesus.
The reason you keep mixing things up is your lack of appreciation of the New Testament which begins at Acts.

Hebrews 9:16-17
[16]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Until Jesus died, there was no new Testament. What was taught by Jesus was addressed at men if the flesh to confound them. We have our message in great plainness of speech. It is these plain speeches that help us understand the gospels and old Testament.


Faith is Faith. If it isn't faith it isn't faith. Its simply spelt out here.

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It us whether or not you believe. Nothing is ever wrong with faith.


James' message was for Christians to demonstrate that faith by love works. Its not to deny the faith. Its an to "show" the faith publicly with good works.

This is just too clear.

damosky12:
Argue with this clear statements:

Romans 3:24-27
[24]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Law of faith and works. Big NO.

Romans 5:1-2
[1]Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[2]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

JUSTIFIED by faith and works? NO!

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

With the heart man believeth and works towards righteousness? NO! He believes unto righteousness.

Galatians 2:16
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, [/b]and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Too clear!

Galatians 5:4-5
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Simply RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH.

[b] These are not parables subject to different meanings. They were not spoken before Christianity. These are the statements addressed to Christians in plain speeches.

Why build your life on statements not precisely addressed at you?




Here we go again with the parables.
Parables, as shown in Matthew 13:10-15 are not for us. They are meant to conceal meaning. Its from the word parabolē which means symbol. Its like riddles.

Its not meant for you to build a doctrine on it. Jesus spoke mostly in parables. He was speaking to men and women who were of the flesh: not saved.
That's why Paul will say this in the New Testament in comparison to the time before Jesus died.

2 Corinthians 3:12
[12]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

PLAIN TEACHING. NOT SYMBOLS.

The gospels and old testament are to be judged with respect to the epistles. They aren't addressed to the church.
ONLY the epistles are written to the church.





Lol. Parable again. Even that parable was meant to tackle the Pharisees who wouldn't submit themselves to the Lordship of Jesus.
The reason you keep mixing things up is your lack of appreciation of the New Testament which begins at Acts.

Hebrews 9:16-17
[16]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Until Jesus died, there was no new Testament. What was taught by Jesus was addressed at men if the flesh to confound them. We have our message in great plainness of speech. It is these plain speeches that help us understand the gospels and old Testament.


Faith is Faith. If it isn't faith it isn't faith. Its simply spelt out here.

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It us whether or not you believe. Nothing is ever wrong with faith.


James' message was for Christians to demonstrate that faith by love works. Its not to deny the faith. Its an to "show" the faith publicly with good works.

This is just too clear.

So the parables of Jesus has no meaning abi?

You think being a branch in the vine but bearing no fruits to show for it is fine? Feel free to discount the teachings of Jesus as mere parables...

Faith without works is trash bro...you can argue with Jesus on that when you meet with Him...

Bear in mind that before the Apostles or Paul became who they were...Jesus taught them and His other followers.
Check the teachings and parables of Jesus again...it's just too clear.

You got talents but you don't want to work with them? No problem...Jesus is clapping for you
You want to be a part of the vine with no fruits to show for it? Infact Jesus is doing thumbs up for you

Unless you think you'll make heaven like the thief on the cross beside Jesus without considering the fact that his circumstance is different from yours...the teachings and parables of Jesus is there, feel free to argue with those ones... Faith alone with nothing to show for it is taking you nowhere...

Can you be a part of the vine without faith? NO
Can you continue to be a part of the vine without any fruit to show for it? ABSOLUTELY NO! The vinedresser will prune you and throw you into the fire...

Bear in mind that even the GOATS know and believe Jesus...but why won't they make it into the Kingdom?

James clearly stated that Faith without works is DEAD... Dead faith no dey carry anyone go anywhere...interpret this cold reality anyhow you want it

damosky12:
Argue with this clear statements:

Romans 3:24-27
[24]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Law of faith and works. Big NO.

Romans 5:1-2
[1]Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[2]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

JUSTIFIED by faith and works? NO!

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

With the heart man believeth and works towards righteousness? NO! He believes unto righteousness.

Galatians 2:16
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, [/b]and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Too clear!

Galatians 5:4-5
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Simply RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH.

[b] These are not parables subject to different meanings. They were not spoken before Christianity. These are the statements addressed to Christians in plain speeches.

Why build your life on statements not precisely addressed at you?




Here we go again with the parables.
Parables, as shown in Matthew 13:10-15 are not for us. They are meant to conceal meaning. Its from the word parabolē which means symbol. Its like riddles.

Its not meant for you to build a doctrine on it. Jesus spoke mostly in parables. He was speaking to men and women who were of the flesh: not saved.
That's why Paul will say this in the New Testament in comparison to the time before Jesus died.

2 Corinthians 3:12
[12]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

PLAIN TEACHING. NOT SYMBOLS.

The gospels and old testament are to be judged with respect to the epistles. They aren't addressed to the church.
ONLY the epistles are written to the church.





Lol. Parable again. Even that parable was meant to tackle the Pharisees who wouldn't submit themselves to the Lordship of Jesus.
The reason you keep mixing things up is your lack of appreciation of the New Testament which begins at Acts.

Hebrews 9:16-17
[16]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Until Jesus died, there was no new Testament. What was taught by Jesus was addressed at men if the flesh to confound them. We have our message in great plainness of speech. It is these plain speeches that help us understand the gospels and old Testament.


Faith is Faith. If it isn't faith it isn't faith. Its simply spelt out here.

Romans 10:6-10
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It us whether or not you believe. Nothing is ever wrong with faith.


James' message was for Christians to demonstrate that faith by love works. Its not to deny the faith. Its an to "show" the faith publicly with good works.

This is just too clear.

Let's not overflog this...if you plant a seed, water it...manure the soil, and the tree has no fruits to show for it (when you expect fruits for your labor!)...you will be content with the tree because it's just there growing with nothing to show for it abi?

Jesus' sermons and parables are too straightforward for anyone with open minds to decipher. Knowledge and understanding must go hand in hand...

Have you bothered asking yourself why John stated..."we overcame the Devil by (1) the blood of the Lamb and (2) the words of our testimony"? What exactly is testimony here? evidence or proof of something! Just like a good fruit is the evidence of a good tree.

Actions & Belief (Faith) without results is an exercise in futility and will take you nowhere. Faith is not enough unless you are expecting your life to be cut short prematurely like the thief on the cross who had no chance to bear fruits for His faith in Christ.

Faith and Works (fruits) MUST complement each other...there's no way dodging this mehn...

BY THE WAY, GOING BY YOUR POSITION...A SERIAL RAPIST WHO BELIEVES IN THE "GOSPEL ONLY" IS DESTINED FOR HEAVEN ABI? WITH NO EVIDENCE OF A NEW LIFESTYLE TO SHOW AS EVIDENCE FOR HIS BELIEF IN CHRIST

damosky12:
If you will build a doctrine on this, do it well.

Did Jesus mention believing in the gospel? No! If you will interprete it the way it appears,since there is no mention of gospel or believing, then you will have to say that any atheist can make heaven so far he is benevolent.
How true will that be?

You must know that these statements were made to Jews and it has no bearing with the new testament church since it is not proven in the epistles.

The gospels were written to record Jesus' life and some of his teachings on earth. Its not a book that is addressed at the church.





The word religion there is the Greek thrēskeia. It means "ceremonial observance". Its akin to Jewish ordinances.
That's why verse 26 says " if any man seem to be religious among you"...

Its not for the church to be religious. The church is built on the Word of faith.

Romans 10:1-10
[1]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[2]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[3]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[4]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[5]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Wait a minute! I just bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying the huge number of people following Jesus while He preached to them were Jews alone?

I am waiting for your response with sufficient historical evidence to back this up...

asuustrike2009:
Yes you lack the holy spirit. The holy spirit doesn't teaches his children to argue unnecessary. You have beingg arguing unnecessary without pointing out a verse from the bible that says don't pay tithe. You keep beating around the bush

Since you're full of the Holy Spirit, kindly point out a verse in the bible that says we shouldn't do this (in addition to this tithing you support)

Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12;
11"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.…

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

If you are not doing these, what could be your reasons sir?

OkCornel:
Wait a minute! I just bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying the huge number of people following Jesus while He preached to them were Jews alone?

I am waiting for your response with sufficient historical evidence to back this up...

Oga.... Don't make a fuss about nothing. Get the context. The statements was not made to Christians.

Simple.

damosky12:
Oga.... Don't make a fuss about nothing. Get the context. The statements was not made to Christians.

Simple.

So you're saying the teachings of Jesus ain't meant for Christians (a.k.a. followers of Jesus) plus His parables but for Jews only?

By the way...if being a Christian means to be Christlike...what would you call the followers of Jesus (who are definitely not Jews only) who were following Him and dutifully obeying His teachings before He was crucified?

OkCornel:
So the parables of Jesus has no meaning abi?

You think being a branch in the vine but bearing no fruits to show for it is fine? Feel free to discount the teachings of Jesus as mere parables...

Faith without works is trash bro...you can argue with Jesus on that when you meet with Him...

LOL. Your challenge is lack of understanding of the new Testament.
I beseech you. Please read CAREFULLY

John 15:1-5
[1]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus spoke about the new Testament. How do you abide in Jesus?
Simply by being BORN AGAIN which is by faith.
2 Corinthians 5:17,21
[17]Therefore if any man be in Christ , he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...
[21]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If you no sabi NT, you no go fit sabi Jesus' statements. Stop confusing yourself.

Now, for every man in Christ who is born again by faith, he has the HOLY SPIRIT which serve as his SEAL.

Ephesians 1:13
[13]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

"After that ye believed." OK.

Now, every one in Christ has LOVE as a fruit of his Spirit. See

Romans 5:5
[5]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

So, John 15 speaks about the man in Christ. He isn't talking about works.
How ever, its a different thing to have love in your heart and another to walk in love which is by the spirit. That's why Galatians addresses it this way...

Galatians 5:16
[16]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

That a Christian is however walking in the flesh doesn't make him a sinner. The Corinthian church is an example.
That's why Paul called them "babes IN CHRIST" (1Corinth 3:3). They have love in their Spirits (ROM 5:5, Gal 5:22), yet they were led by the flesh.

A man is saved by grace. He is expected to walk in the Spirit always, not to try to make heaven but to live in conformity with his nature as being in Christ.
However, not all Christians have developed to the stage of being led. This is why Paul called them BABIES IN CHRIST. That's why Peter admonished


1 Peter 2:2
[2]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

A baby IN CHRIST is in Christ whether or not he mixes his faith with works.

Bear in mind that before the Apostles or Paul became who they were...Jesus taught them and His other followers.
Check the teachings and parables of Jesus again...it's just too clear.

You got talents but you don't want to work with them? No problem...Jesus is clapping for you .
You want to be a part of the vine with no fruits to show for it? Infact Jesus is doing thumbs up for you
.

God help!

You surely can't prove that the Parable of talents was talking about mixing faith with works. If you can, please do. Also, show us that part that talks about faith in the Parable.

Matthew 25:24
[24]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Prove to us from THE ABOVE how that the man who said this had faith and had the love of God shed abroad in his heart.

Prove to us how this completely describes the new Testament?

You seem not to really read posts all in the name of wanting to argue.

The gospels were written to convince non-Christians about Christianity by showing them the life of Jesus in earth as explained by eye witnesses.

Luke 1:1-4
[1]Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
[2]Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
[3]It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
[4]That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

It wasn't for you to build your Christian life on. Early Christians lived on the epistles not the gospels. Check your history. The gospels are well explained by the Apostles. They are the ORIGINAL RECIPIENTS of it. They are in the Ones appointed by the Spirit to teach the church. That's why Paul said.

1 Timothy 3:15
[15]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I previously explained the Parable of the vine.

Unless you think you'll make heaven like the thief on the cross beside Jesus without considering the fact that his circumstance is different from yours...the teachings and parables of Jesus is there, feel free to argue with those ones... Faith alone with nothing to show for it is taking you nowhere...

If you understand English. What does this mean (pay a special attention at the bold)?

Ephesians 2:4-5,8-9
[4]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Can you be a part of the vine without faith? NO
Can you continue to be a part of the vine without any fruit to show for it? ABSOLUTELY NO! The vinedresser will prune you and throw you into the fire...

Bear in mind that even the GOATS know and believe Jesus...but why won't they make it into the Kingdom?

James clearly stated that Faith without works is DEAD... Dead faith no dey carry anyone go anywhere ..interpret this cold reality anyhow you want it

Its clear that any body IN CHRIST (born again) abides in the vine. Its clearly explained in the epistles.

Goats don't OBEY THE GOSPEL. Goats no dey obey, oga.
Those who believe are Saved (SHEEP) John 3:18. Those who don't (Goats) are damned.

Goats don't obey the gospel. Those who obey and believe Gospel aren't goats.

If you can't show where James says a Christian without works is damned, then, sir, its smart to keep quiet.

I think its clear enough that "dead faith" only refers to the state of having faith without showing it out. However,

Ephesians 2:8
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Oga, if person no sabi epistles wells, he no sabi gospels.

damosky12:
LOL. Your challenge is lack of understanding of the new Testament.
I beseech you. Please read CAREFULLY

John 15:1-5
[1]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus spoke about the new Testament. How do you abide in Jesus?
Simply by being BORN AGAIN which is by faith.
2 Corinthians 5:17,21
[17]Therefore if any man be in Christ , he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...
[21]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If you no sabi NT, you no go fit sabi Jesus' statements. Stop confusing yourself.

Now, for every man in Christ who is born again by faith, he has the HOLY SPIRIT which serve as his SEAL.

Ephesians 1:13
[13]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

"After that ye believed." OK.

Now, every one in Christ has LOVE as a fruit of his Spirit. See

Romans 5:5
[5]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

So, John 15 speaks about the man in Christ. He isn't talking about works.
How ever, its a different thing to have love in your heart and another to walk in love which is by the spirit. That's why Galatians addresses it this way...

Galatians 5:16
[16]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

That a Christian is however walking in the flesh doesn't make him a sinner. The Corinthian church is an example.
That's why Paul called them "babes IN CHRIST" (1Corinth 3:3). They have love in their Spirits (ROM 5:5, Gal 5:22), yet they were led by the flesh.

A man is saved by grace. He is expected to walk in the Spirit always, not to try to make heaven but to live in conformity with his nature as being in Christ.
However, not all Christians have developed to the stage of being led. This is why Paul called them BABIES IN CHRIST. That's why Peter admonished


1 Peter 2:2
[2]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

A baby IN CHRIST is in Christ whether or not he mixes his faith with works.




God help!

You surely can't prove that the Parable of talents was talking about mixing faith with works. If you can, please do. Also, show us that part that talks about faith in the Parable.

Matthew 25:24
[24]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Prove to us how we can said THE ABOVE the man who said this had faith and had the love of God shed abroad in his heart.

Prove to us how this completely describes the new Testament?

You seem not to really read posts all in the name of wanting to argue.

The gospels were written to convince non-Christians about Christianity by showing them the life of Jesus in earth as explained by eye witnesses.

Luke 1:1-4
[1]Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
[2]Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
[3]It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
[4]That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

It wasn't for you to build your Christian life on. Early Christians lived on the epistles not the gospels. Check your history. The gospels are well explained by the Apostles. They are the ORIGINAL RECIPIENTS of it. They are in the Ones appointed by the Spirit to teach the church. That's why Paul said.

1 Timothy 3:15
[15]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I previously explained the Parable of the vine.





If you understand English. What does this mean (pay a special attention at the bold)?

Ephesians 2:4-5,8-9
[4]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.





Its clear that any body IN CHRIST (born again) abides in the vine. Its clearly explained in the epistles.

Goats don't OBEY THE GOSPEL. Goats no dey obey, oga.
Those who believe are Saved (SHEEP) John 3:18. Those who don't (Goats) are damned.

Goats don't obey the gospel. Those who obey and believe Gospel aren't goats.

If you can't show where James says a Christian without works is damned, then, sir, its smart to keep quiet.

I think its clear enough that "dead faith" only refers to the state of having faith without showing it out. However,

Ephesians 2:8
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Oga, if person no sabi epistles wells, he no sabi gospels.

The gospel states WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling...

What does that mean?

You are definitely struggling to understand the simple message I'm passing across because you are;

1) Analyzing Faith and works in isolation; both of them go hand in hand

2) You cannot be a part of the vine and afford to have no fruits to show for it...is this too difficult for you to comprehend that Faith alone is not sufficient? If you are a branch that bears no fruit, then the vinedresser would prune you off and throw you into the fire...

3) Can a serial rapist have Faith alone without any testimony of a renewed mind and lifestyle as a fruit to show for his Faith and just make Heaven like that?

4) You are also thinking works here means achievement by your strength as opposed to inspiration from the Spirit of God...it's not by power nor by might...but by my spirit sayeth the Lord!

When the word of God is sown into your Heart...the Fruits of the Spirit is expected to manifest in your life with the passage of time. Those fruits are the works (evidence) of your faith I am referring to...

I hope this is not too difficult to digest now

OkCornel:
The gospel states WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling...

What does that mean?

That's the epistles. Good question.

Philippians 2:12-13
[12]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[13]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


That's an admonition for the church to live out what they have in the inside. Like I explained earlier, the Christian has LOVE as a fruit of his the HOLY SPIRIT living in his Spirit. ROM 5:5, Gal 5:22. He is expected to live out that Love.

That's why verse 13 made it known that IT IS GOD THAT WORKS IN YOU....

Yours is to work out what God is doing in you.
Also fear and trembling shouldn't confuse one. See how it is used here.

Jeremiah 33:9
[9]And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

So, it connotes ACKNOWLEDGING GOD as the One that works in you.

Nevertheless, that a Christian is led of the flesh doesn't mean God doesn't work in him. He is only led of the flesh. He is as much a Christian as anyone who led. Why?

They are not saved by that work. They are saved by Grace through FAITH.

Ephesians 2:8
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

They are ONLY expected to live out the good in them, not to try to make heaven,

...but as a WILFUL show of Love for God and for men which comes with Spiritual growth.

They are not forced to do it to make heaven. They are already saved. The doing part flows out the more they grow in God.

OkCornel:
The gospel states WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling...

What does that mean?

You are definitely struggling to understand the simple message I'm passing across because you are;

1) Analyzing Faith and works in isolation; both of them go hand in hand

2) You cannot be a part of the vine and afford to have no fruits to show for it...is this too difficult for you to comprehend that Faith alone is not sufficient? If you are a branch that bears no fruit, then the vinedresser would prune you off and throw you into the fire...

3) Can a serial rapist have Faith alone without any testimony of a renewed mind and lifestyle as a fruit to show for his Faith and just make Heaven like that?

4) You are also thinking works here means achievement by your strength as opposed to inspiration from the Spirit of God...it's not by power nor by might...but by my spirit sayeth the Lord!

When the word of God is sown into your Heart...the Fruits of the Spirit is expected to manifest in your life with the passage of time. Those fruits are the works (evidence) of your faith I am referring to...

I hope this is not too difficult to digest now

Oga, You simply want to argue not to learn.

I read your posts very well and address them fully. You keep repeating the same things I gave addressed without proving me wrong.

My posts are there to be read when you are ready to learn. The scriptures I posted and analysed are lucid enough for any willing person.

Selah.

damosky12:
Oga, You simply want to argue not to learn.

I read your posts very well and address them fully. You keep repeating the same things I gave addressed without proving me wrong.

My posts are there to be read when you are ready to learn. The scriptures I posted and analysed are lucid enough for any willing person.

Selah.

1) Can you help us understand what Jesus meant by unfruitful branches being pruned off the vine and burnt? or are you thinking being a part of the vine is just enough to keep you safe?

2) Can you also go through Matthew 25 v 31-46 to tell us in plain English in that very passage what differentiates the goats from sheeps? you don't need to stray too far...the answer is within that passage.

3) In the context of my previous posts, what is your definition/understanding of works? Achievements made by your strength or through the Spirit of God?

4) Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up her dead, which were in her, and death and hell delivered up the dead, which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

If works had no weight, why would it be considered as a criteria for names to be in the book of life?

Bros...Faith without works (evidence or testimony) to show for it is a dead one and is taking you nowhere...

Faith and works (spirit driven & not flesh driven) is what the gospel teaches...not "faith alone"

OkCornel:
1) Can you help us understand what Jesus meant by unfruitful branches being pruned off the vine and burnt?

there is no burnt there. Here is the place.

John 15:1-5
[1]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

[5]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

From verse 5, Jesus says He that abideth in him bringeth forth fruit. Now, clearly, the branch in verse 2 doesn't abide in Him. He didn't use the word abide there. Abide means to DWELL.
That means the man in verse 2 is not IN CHRIST. To abide in Him is to be in Him. How? By being born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17
[17]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Does He bear fruit, YES! How?

Galatians 5:22
[22]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith....

They are the fruits of his Spirit. The problems with babies in Christ who aren't showing these works in the physical is their walking in the flesh. Hence, the admonition

Galatians 5:16
[16]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

The church at Corinth walked in the flesh. Yet Apostle Paul said they are in Christ?
Is he wrong?
Of course not. They are born again: Saved by grace Through FAITH, not by works.

This is not to say they should go about living in the flesh. They are expected to develop themselves towards living continually in the Spirit. That's Gods perfect will for them. BUT YET, WHAT SAVED THEM IS FAITH ALONE. NOT WORKS.

Ephesians 2:9
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2) Can you also go through Matthew 25 v 31-46 to tell us in plain English in that very passage what differentiates the goats from sheeps? you don't need to stray too far...the answer is within that passage.

You mislead yourself to ask me to narrow down the whole of salvation to this portion that talks about giving.

What if the giver is a thief?
What if he is an atheist?
That portion doesn't address it. In fact, it will be against your idea that a man has to believe in Jesus.
Certain religions also quote this verse to say its not about accepting Jesus.

I have said it over and over that the whole of that portion was not addressed to men of this age (New Testament age) It was addressed to a people who were given laws to guarantee their relationship with God (old Testament)

Jesus had not birthed the Church. There was no new Testament.

Hebrews 9:15-16
[15]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

The new-testament man is not saved by what he does or doesn't do. It is by grace THROUGH FAITH.


Ephesians 2:8
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

When Jesus was about to live, nowonder he had to show the insufficiency of His teachings thus far. See what He said.

John 16:12-13
[12]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

They wouldn't understand New Testament teachings until they were bornagain. Yet, Jesus had to die for them to be born again.

That's why those things Jesus wanted to say are revealed by the Holy Spirit in the epistles. They are the materials for the new Testament.

The gospels ,( Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) have to be subjected to the epistles.

3) In the context of my previous posts, what is your definition/understanding of works? Achievements made by your strength or through the Spirit of God

No matter your definition of works. A man is NEVER justified by what he does in the new Testament. He is saved simply by grace through faith (believing the gospel of Jesus).

Romans 10:5-10
[5]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[6]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Good works come after being saved. Not as per trying to make heaven but as a culture of a man developed in Christ.

Selah.

damosky12:
I beseech you in the name of God, please go through my last few posts, I addressed some of these severally. Haba!



I will modify and address each of the points in a moment.

I have gone through them... Just explain how it is possible to think that being part of the vine with no fruits to show for it is just enough to keep you safe from the vinedresser...

I hope you understand what I am saying now. Don't mistake a part of the message to be the whole...

Cheers

damosky12:
I beseech you in the name of God, please go through my last few posts, I addressed some of these severally. Haba!



I will modify and address each of the points in a moment.

By the way, you are diverting my attention from those spreading the doctrine of obligatory monetary tithing...

I am still waiting for their response to my last question

GoldNiagara:
Lolz! You quoted me first remember!

check Again

OkCornel:
4) Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up her dead, which were in her, and death and hell delivered up the dead, which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

If works had no weight, why would it be considered as a criteria for names to be in the book of life?

In addressing your no 4. This is one of my earlier replies to you.


You also have to know that the book of Revelation isn't interpreted literally, being a prophetic book. Its got to be in line with the epistles.
Only believers are judged by God on the last days according to their works to be regarded according to what they did in the flesh.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13]Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14]If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
That was talking to Christian.
The unbeliever does not need to be judged. He is condemned already. Mark 16:16 says: Whosoever believeth not shall be dammed (condemned). He is condemned the moment he rejects the Gospel.
Also see John 3:18
"...but he that believeth not on him is CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten son of God.
These unbelievers aren't the ones to stand before God. Only the believers will stand before God to be rewarded bases on their works. That day is the day Paul alludes to
2Timothy 4:8 Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day...
Not everyone will meet God. Nope!
Hebrews 12:14
...without which no man shall see the Lord.
So how will all men stand before God?
Revelations 20: 12-13, when read contextually deals with those whose names are written. They are the ones standing before God being judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. Note, the things they did were written in the book of life (verse 12). Apparently, that couldn't refer to all since not all are written in the book of life.
Clearly, its a judgement of reward.
Verse 14-15 then deals with those not written in the book. These ones, remember, have been condemned already. They aren't standing before God.

Bros...Faith without works (evidence or testimony) to show for it is a dead one and is taking you nowhere...

1 Corinthians 3:1,3
[1]And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[3]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

They are walking in the flesh. He say they are babies IN CHRIST. I guess someone that is going to hell can not be said to be in Christ.
Think, if you got any other reason why he said they are in Christ despite their lack of works, abeq teach me.

Faith and works (spirit driven & not flesh driven) is what the gospel teaches...not "faith alone"

Babies don't start living like adults once they are born. Yet, they are 100% humans as you are as an adult. Same with Spiritual babies. They don't start walking in the Spirit immediately. It takes time. Yet, they are as saved as any other Christian is.

He may not be perfect in deeds, yet as a believer of the gospel, he is SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

That's explains why Paul calls those fighting Christians " babies in Christ ". It also explains Peter's admonition

1 Peter 2:2
[2]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

damosky12:
In addressing your no 4. This is one of my earlier replies to you.


You also have to know that the book of Revelation isn't interpreted literally, being a prophetic book. Its got to be in line with the epistles.
Only believers are judged by God on the last days according to their works to be regarded according to what they did in the flesh.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13]Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14]If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
That was talking to Christian.
The unbeliever does not need to be judged. He is condemned already. Mark 16:16 says: Whosoever believeth not shall be dammed (condemned). He is condemned the moment he rejects the Gospel.
Also see John 3:18
"...but he that believeth not on him is CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten son of God.
These unbelievers aren't the ones to stand before God. Only the believers will stand before God to be rewarded bases on their works. That day is the day Paul alludes to
2Timothy 4:8 Henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day...
Not everyone will meet God. Nope!
Hebrews 12:14
...without which no man shall see the Lord.
So how will all men stand before God?
Revelations 20: 12-13, when read contextually deals with those whose names are written. They are the ones standing before God being judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. Note, the things they did were written in the book of life (verse 12). Apparently, that couldn't refer to all since not all are written in the book of life.
Clearly, its a judgement of reward.
Verse 14-15 then deals with those not written in the book. These ones, remember, have been condemned already. They aren't standing before God.



1 Corinthians 3:1,3
[1]And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[3]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

They are walking in the flesh. He say they are babies IN CHRIST. I guess someone that is going to hell can not be said to be in Christ.
Think, if you got any other reason why he said they are in Christ despite their lack of works, abeq teach me.




Babies don't start living like adults once they are born. Yet, they are 100% humans as you are as an adult. Same with Spiritual babies. They don't start walking in the Spirit immediately. It takes time. Yet, they are as saved as any other Christian is.

He may not be perfect in deeds, yet as a believer of the gospel, he is SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

That's explains why Paul calls those fighting Christians " babies in Christ ". It also explains Peter's admonition

1 Peter 2:2
[2]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

I agree with the part of your message I bolded in red, and that was why I brought up the case of the thief crucified alongside Jesus who was saved by "faith alone". Does his circumstance apply to other followers of Jesus who have ample time to bear fruits? or rather mature from Spiritual babies into adults?

You haven't mentioned anything about the fate of barren branches that are part of the vine.
If you are part of the vine through Faith with no fruits to show for it...how can you be saved from being pruned and thrown into the fire?

OkCornel:
I agree with the part of your message I bolded in red, and that was why I brought up the case of the thief crucified alongside Jesus who was saved by "faith alone". Does his circumstance apply to other followers of Jesus who have ample time to bear fruits? or rather mature from Spiritual babies into adults?

You haven't mentioned anything about the fate of barren branches that are part of the vine.
If you are part of the vine through Faith with no fruits to show for it...how can you be saved from being pruned and thrown into the fire?

I addressed your first three points including the vine and branch part in my last post before the one you just quoted. Its quite well expounded.

damosky12:
I addressed your first three points including the vine and branch part in my last post before the one you just quoted. Its quite well expounded.

Going by your post, you are saying all Christians that have faith in Jesus are automatically fruitful even of there's nothing to show for it?

I hope you are not including churchgoers who confess this faith with no evidence whatsoever in their lives to show for it.

OkCornel:
Going by your post, you are saying all Christians that have faith in Jesus are automatically fruitful even of there's nothing to show for it?

I hope you are not including churchgoers who confess this faith with no evidence whatsoever in their lives to show for it.

These are not my opinions. They come from a careful study of the Bible and listening to seasoned teachers of the Word.

The salvation message is clear enough. A man is saved by Faith alone. He is then admonished to live out the qualities of the Holy Spirit in Him after salvation. This living out is not what saves him. It is just Gods perfect will as to his life in the flesh.

Not every one is able to live out good works, those who are struggling with the flesh are hence, referred to as undeveloped; babies in Christ. They are saved by Grace just as every other Christian, but spiritually limited.
They are saved, but not displaying the realities of their salvation in the physical. They are the babies.
If it were by works, these won't be Christians,...

Ephesians 2:4-5,8-9
[4]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

damosky12:
These are not my opinions. They come from a careful study of the Bible and listening to seasoned teachers of the Word.

The salvation message is clear enough. A man is saved by Faith alone. He is then admonished to live out the qualities of the Holy Spirit in Him after salvation. This living out is not what saves him. It is just Gods perfect will as to his life in the flesh.

Not every one is able to live out good works, those who are struggling with the flesh are hence, referred to as undeveloped; babies in Christ. They are saved by Grace just as every other Christian, but spiritually limited.
They are saved, but not displaying the realities of their salvation in the physical. They are the babies.
If it were by works, these won't be Christians,...

Ephesians 2:4-5,8-9
[4]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You are not getting what works means then...

There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God.

Which of these works do you think I've been hammering on since?
Does it make sense to be grafted into the vine through faith and you have no fruits to show for it later on?
If you think its impossible...why did Jesus mention what will happen to an unproductive branch in the vine per His parable?

To make it easier for you, go read up Paul's text on works of the flesh and works (fruits) of the Spirit. Either ways...you must bear fruits (works) either good or bad...

On a side note, I think we have digressed from the reason this thread was opened...if you want to continue this discussion on faith and works, please open another thread and invite me there...

I want to discuss further with the pro-tithers here. Thanks

OkCornel:
You are not getting what works means then...

There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God.

Which of these works do you think I've been hammering on since?
Does it make sense to be grafted into the vine through faith and you have no fruits to show for it later on?
If you think its impossible...why did Jesus mention what will happen to an unproductive branch in the vine per His parable?

To make it easier for you, go read up Paul's text on works of the flesh and works (fruits) of the Spirit. Either ways...you must bear fruits (works) either good or bad...

On a side note, I think we have digressed from the reason this thread was opened...if you want to continue this discussion on faith and works, please open another thread and invite me there...

I want to discuss further with the pro-tithers here. Thanks

LOL. How ironic that I have scholarly analyzed Paul's texts many times here when all your works theology came from Jesus' parables and James. How come I am the one to go and read Paul here.
I guests you are the ones to read the Pauline quotes I have sufficiently provided on this thread. Sincerely, I believe they will help you a lot.

I have also pointed out your vine/branch brouhaha fallacy in my posts countlessly.


Besides,
You said:
1. "There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

If you really you know what you are saying, provide a clear scripture for this.

Thanks.

2. "Does it make sense to be grafted into the vine through faith and you have no fruits to show for it later on?"

I guess Paul was not as versed in the scriptures as you are when he called a bad behaving Corinthian congregation "babes in Christ". Maybe he doesn't know it doesn't make sense.


conclusion.

"There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

No work is achieved through the flesh.

Paul said:

Romans 7:18-19
[18]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Good work is only achieved by the Spirit of God. Its a fruit of the Spirit. You let it out by walking in the Spirit. Gal 5:16.

To try to please God to make heaven is not of the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't do good to try to make heaven or to be saved BUT out of the love of God. ROM 5:5.

Those who are genuinely led of the Spirit know that they are saved by Grace. They know that they don't need to try to please God. They know that God loves them irrespective of their sins. It us this revelation of God that spurs them to live for HIM.

No vine that abides in Him is cast out. He has fruits (Gal 5:22). They are packages of his Spirit, whether or not he has grown to walk in them.


OK.

damosky12:
LOL. How ironic that I have scholarly analyzed Paul's texts many times here when all your works theology came from Jesus' parables and James. How come I am the one to go and read Paul here.
I guests you are the ones to read the Pauline quotes I have sufficiently provided on this thread. Sincerely, I believe they will help you a lot.

I have also pointed out your vine/branch brouhaha fallacy in my posts countlessly.


Besides,
You said:
1. "There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

If you really you know what you are saying, provide a clear scripture for this.

Thanks.

2. "Does it make sense to be grafted into the vine through faith and you have no fruits to show for it later on?"

I guess Paul was not as versed in the scriptures as you are when he called a bad behaving Corinthian congregation "babes in Christ". Maybe he doesn't know it doesn't make sense.


conclusion.

"There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

No work is achieved through the flesh.

Paul said:

Romans 7:18-19
[18]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Good work is only achieved by the Spirit of God. Its a fruit of the Spirit. You let it out by walking in the Spirit. Gal 5:16.

To try to please God to make heaven is not of the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't do good to try to make heaven or to be saved BUT out of the love of God. ROM 5:5.

Those who are genuinely led of the Spirit know that they are saved by Grace. They know that they don't need to try to please God. They know that God loves them irrespective of their sins. It us this revelation of God that spurs them to live for HIM.

No vine that abides in Him is cast out. He has fruits (Gal 5:22). They are packages of his Spirit, whether or not he has grown to walk in them.


OK.

Concluding that faith alone guarantees one access to Heaven is as funny as concluding that gaining admission to a university alone is sufficient enough to earn a degree.

I keep referring you to the teachings on Jesus on the importance of how works cannot be divorced from Faith to validate it.

Even Jesus taught that works would be tested by fire.

I refer you to the works of the master and yet you keep emphasizing on the teachings of His servant Paul...so ironic mehn...

What are the works of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit? what do they mean to you?

The fruits you bear validates or invalidates your faith...

Please have a wholistic view when reading your bible

damosky12:
LOL. How ironic that I have scholarly analyzed Paul's texts many times here when all your works theology came from Jesus' parables and James. How come I am the one to go and read Paul here.
I guests you are the ones to read the Pauline quotes I have sufficiently provided on this thread. Sincerely, I believe they will help you a lot.

I have also pointed out your vine/branch brouhaha fallacy in my posts countlessly.


Besides,
You said:
1. "There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

If you really you know what you are saying, provide a clear scripture for this.

Thanks.

2. "Does it make sense to be grafted into the vine through faith and you have no fruits to show for it later on?"

I guess Paul was not as versed in the scriptures as you are when he called a bad behaving Corinthian congregation "babes in Christ". Maybe he doesn't know it doesn't make sense.


conclusion.

"There's work achieved by the effort of the flesh...then, there's work achieved through dependence on the spirit of God."

No work is achieved through the flesh.

Paul said:

Romans 7:18-19
[18]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Good work is only achieved by the Spirit of God. Its a fruit of the Spirit. You let it out by walking in the Spirit. Gal 5:16.

To try to please God to make heaven is not of the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't do good to try to make heaven or to be saved BUT out of the love of God. ROM 5:5.

Those who are genuinely led of the Spirit know that they are saved by Grace. They know that they don't need to try to please God. They know that God loves them irrespective of their sins. It us this revelation of God that spurs them to live for HIM.

No vine that abides in Him is cast out. He has fruits (Gal 5:22). They are packages of his Spirit, whether or not he has grown to walk in them.


OK.

The part of your quote which I bolded in red means you have not seen how this passage fits into the context of our discussion;

Galatians 5:19-23
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)


19 Moreover the works of the flesh are manifest, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, wantonness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,

21 Envy, murders, drunkenness, gluttony, and such like, whereof I tell you before, as I also have told you before, that they which do such things, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperancy: against such there is no law.

Bros, unless you are preaching that it is possible to profess faith in Jesus and manifest no fruit of the Spirit (which is the works I'm referring to) in your life and still make heaven...then I leave you to this brand of false doctrine...

Jesus and Paul cannot be speaking from both sides of their mouth. Again, I advice you to read the teachings of Jesus to His followers and that of the Apostles to the Church so you can see the bigger picture. DO NOT MISTAKE A PART FOR THE WHOLE

MEANWHILE, I ADVISED THAT YOU SHOULD OPEN A SEPARATE THREAD AND MENTION ME THERE...DON'T DISTRACT ME ON THIS THREAD

OkCornel:
The part of your quote which I bolded in red means you have not seen how this passage fits into the context of our discussion;

Galatians 5:19-23

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)


19 Moreover t[b]he works of the flesh[/b] are manifest, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, wantonness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies,

21 Envy, murders, drunkenness, gluttony, and such like, whereof I tell you before, as I also have told you before, that they which do such things, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperancy: against such there is no law.

So, envy, murders and the likes are what you mean by those works that are ACHIEVED through the flesh?

Park well, Oga. E nor fit.

You are confused, sir.

damosky12:
So, envy, murders and the likes are what you mean by those works that are ACHIEVED through the flesh?

Park well, Oga. E nor fit.

You are confused, sir.

I have quoted the words of Paul for you...and he stated clearly what the works of the flesh are...unless you are saying Paul is confused...
Perhaps you are using your words to invalidate that of Paul...

You that is not confused, kindly demonstrate your understanding of that scripture let us see...

Before I continue with this discussion on this thread...I need to know your position on tithing in Christendom just to be sure you are not distracting me here

damosky12:
So, envy, murders and the likes are what you mean by those works that are ACHIEVED through the flesh?

Park well, Oga. E nor fit.

You are confused, sir.

[s]Just as I thought! You are one of the peddlers of this false doctrine on obligatory monetary tithing in Christendom. So you are trying hard to make me veer off the purpose of this thread being opened right?

No wonder I told you to open a separate thread for Faith & Works and yet you still insisted on continuing the discussion here with a view of proving me wrong...smh, very weak and dissappointing!

I've seen some of your topics...keep it up!
https://www.nairaland.com/4171061/what-sheeples-need-know-tithing

1) Do well to show me where God instructed that tithes be paid monetarily like the church is doing today...


2) Also explain how Jesus can fulfill the Law...yet, parts of it such as tithing is obligatory and binding on His followers[/s]

OkCornel:
Concluding that faith alone guarantees one access to Heaven is as funny as concluding that gaining admission to a university alone is sufficient enough to earn a degree.

University is not heaven. That's a fallacy. Use Bible.

Tackle these.

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you can't prove to me from these Scriptures how that a man is not saved by faith alone. Please, don't quote me again, sir.

I keep referring you to the teachings on Jesus on the importance of how works cannot be divorced from Faith to validate it.

.
and I keep explaining to you how all your interpretations are wrong.

Even Jesus taught that works would be tested by fire.

Jesus didn't teach that. Paul did in 1 Corinth 3:13. He was talking about the labours of every Christian on earth how that some will be rewarded and some won't but yet will be saved.

I refer you to the works of the master and yet you keep emphasizing on the teachings of His servant Paul...so ironic mehn...

I keep showing you how that Jesus Himself said His words in His earthly ministry were not all of the truth (John 16:12-13) and how that the gospels (Matthew, mark,Luke, John) are not the materials written to the Church. I showed you how that the epistles of the Apostles make church doctrine. You choose to stay fixated to error.

See the early church.

Acts 2:42
[42]And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine (Teaching).

Did it say in Jesus' teachings?

Mehn! Try and learn, sir.

What are the works of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit? what do they mean to you?

The fruits you bear validates or invalidates your faith...

My Bible teach that a man is saved by grace through faith and not by works.

When faith says faith is dead, he isn't saying its inexistent. He is saying its not active. Simple.

Any intelligent student of the Bible will investigate an unclear or arguable statement from the perspective of the clearer one

James NEVER said anyone who has faith without works is a sinner. He knows that faith saved him, even while he admonishes him to demonstrate that faith.

Please have a wholistic view when reading your bible

Sincerely, with love, I think the statement is for you. I quoted from the gospels and the epistles even the old Testament. Yet, all your emphasis came from the gospels and James. Isn't it?

Who is the holistic one here?

OkCornel:
Just as I thought! You are one of the peddlers of this false doctrine on obligatory monetary tithing in Christendom. So you are trying hard to make me veer off the purpose of this thread being opened right?

No wonder I told you to open a separate thread for Faith & Works and yet you still insisted on continuing the discussion here with a view of proving me wrong...smh, very weak and dissappointing!

I've seen some of your topics...keep it up!
https://www.nairaland.com/4171061/what-sheeples-need-know-tithing

1) Do well to show me where God instructed that tithes be paid monetarily like the church is doing today...


2) Also explain how Jesus can fulfill the Law...yet, parts of it such as tithing is obligatory and binding on His followers

No wonder you know so little. You don't read.

Please read the message on the thread first.

damosky12:
University is not heaven. That's a fallacy. Use Bible.

Tackle these.

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you can't prove to me from these Scriptures how that a man is not saved by faith alone. Please, don't quote me again, sir.


.
and I keep explaining to you how all your interpretations are wrong.





Jesus didn't teach that. Paul did in 1 Corinth 3:13. He was talking about the labours of every Christian on earth how that some will be rewarded and some won't but yet will be saved.




I keep showing you how that Jesus Himself said His words in His earthly ministry were not all of the truth (John 16:12-13) and how that the gospels (Matthew, mark,Luke, John) are not the materials written to the Church. I showed you how that the epistles of the Apostles make church doctrine. You choose to stay fixated to error.

See the early church.

Acts 2:42
[42]And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine (Teaching).

Did it say in Jesus' teachings?

Mehn! Try and learn, sir.




My Bible teach that a man is saved by grace through faith and not by works.

When faith says faith is dead, he isn't saying its inexistent. He is saying its not active. Simple.

Any intelligent student of the Bible will investigate an unclear or arguable statement from the perspective of the clearer one

James NEVER said anyone who has faith without works is a sinner. He knows that faith saved him, even while he admonishes him to demonstrate that faith.



Sincerely, with love, I think the statement us for you. I gave quoted from the gospels and the epistles even the old Testament. Yet, all your emphasis came from the gospels and James. Isn't it?

Who is the holistic one here?

You are using scriptures from the Bible to argue against scriptures from the same Bible.

Read Romans 3:27-28 again...you are confusing works of the Law for fruits of the Spirit which is the works James was referring to...how else can I pass this message across again? with concordance?

Please don't tell me you are confusing the works James was referring to as works of the Law Paul was preaching about in Romans 3:27-28

The teachings and Parables of Jesus are there for you to read. If you are not comfortable, go and argue with Jesus & Paul on;

1) what He meant by barren branches being pruned off the vine.
2) What the teachings on works being tested by fire meant
3) How professing a faith without fruits of the Spirit to show for it can take you to heaven.

Read Ephesians 2 v 9...it is a caution not to let the works of the Spirit bring pride into you just like how it has done to "Men of God" before their fall...you can read God's Generals for further details on how some great men started well and ended badly... WORKS ALONE...cannot get you into heaven...neither can FAITH ALONE, both are a complement of each other. Works (not of the Law or Flesh ooo) is evidence of a functioning faith. Absence of it...is a dead faith that would get you nowhere!

As for the University analogy I gave you which you couldn't connect the dots, people whose mind are more open to the truth will understand the message I've passed across there...but since yours is still closed to a collection of 66 books determined by the council of Nicaea to be the Bible as we know it...that's your limit...


[s]BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MATTER ON GROUND...YOU SEEM TO BE A PRO-TITHER...can you help asuustrike2009 and your other pro-tither colleagues answer my questions on tithing?[/s]

damosky12:
No wonder you know so little. You don't read.

Please read the message on the thread first.

My bad... I made a hasty conclusion there. Sound write up.

Back to our discussion now that the tithe part is clear...I could swear I thought I read something on Sheeples to keep on paying tithes to Pastors in the name of giving though...Once more, my sincere apologies on the hasty conclusion. BUT please bear in mind that the major thing is for these false doctrines not to be preached or implemented in church as opposed to condoning it...

I share the same opinion on tithing as per your write up. It is not only unscriptural...but also unrealistic to tithe the way God demands it...

Now we can continue our discussions on Faith and Work