₦airaland Forum

realmindz:
meaning you are a descendant of the Jews, and can you trace your ancestral tree to Abraham?

Yes nah.

[quote author=Emmanystone post=66306543]

Like i said, we all have ancestors. They are the 'Spirits' of the departed forefathers. The problem begins when you begin to ascribe to them powers which they didn't have while alive. When you begin to offer sacrifices to them, when you begin to adulate and Revere them. When you begin to appease them hoping or asking them to bless your land with this and that. Evoking them to do this or that for you.

they are not spirit of the departed forefathers, they are memory of the the departed forefathers ,No power is given to them , it is absolutely wrong information you have learn about true ATR. It is imperative you learn ATR before you attack it, you do not attack the idealogy you knew nothing about, it is called blasphemy. our Ancestors do not make plans to helps us unlike those of you Christianized thinkers waiting on a spook savior, It is the Living that must make the plans. The ancestor role is only to help us carry out the plans we have devised. Only Egu (revered ancestors) can do this; they are distinct from just from any dead person When you venerate their memory, you tap the will and the the power to positively help you.

However, if you are venerating cross like you did yesterday for good Friday who was unworthy of being ancestor since he belong to another race, you will introduce negativity in your live. Such an unworthy ancestors will only want to continue their unworthiness. and you will find yourself in a situation like Nigeria people that often celebrate any ancestor (worthy or unworthy) and that is part of the reason they wreck havoc in the country. They venerate character like Jesus and Muhammad and then you should wonder why NIGERIA is so addicted in sending negative signal to the world.


The modern Africans' rejection of their own ancestor and the embrace of worthless ancestor, is a major reason Blacks are in a downward spiral to self-destruction. so Let us suck on the tit of the ancestor and we will have all the nourishment we need to achieve all our ambitions.

Have you asked yourself this question? What powers did these forefathers possessed as humans while alive, and where did they all of a sudden get the powers you ascribe to them now that they are dead?

it is not about any magical power as you inclined, it is about the legacy this ancestor pass in us, not all ancestors are worthy to be venerated, only those who pass the true legacy are worthy. just like the way our country still remember someone like awolowo and azikwe and pay less attention to someone like abacha.

Putting it clearly; 'what powers do you have now while alive, to be placed in a position of a god when you die? When you die, you'll become a forefather, and the living will begin to pour libation, calling on you for this and or that. How will you come about the power they will ascribe to you? Do the dead possess power at death?

you are wrong again, ancestors are not equal to GOD, true ancestors are simply heroes who have impact positively in their lifetime before they pass away, i will only become a true ancestor worthy of veneration if i pass good legacy like that of the people of the past. my remembrance will awaken positiveness in them. the legacy of ojukwu is still well emphasized in igbo land.

Only Christianity exposes satan that is why he hates Christianity with venom. But for Christianity, satan will keep men in perpetual bondage of darkness. Demons/fallen angels have been masquerading as gods to men in all the cultures of men and in different ages. Only the light of the gospel reveals who and what they truly are.

i am not interested in attacking Christianity, even if you you found it fit to attack my faith due to your ignorance. i will only ask you a question. prove the evidence of Christianity beyond the light of the gospel. the light of the gospel is base on the written hands of men so it is not infallible.

Demons/familiar spirits possessed our forefathers just like they possess the pagans now, after their dead, these demons departs from the hosts, taking another body of even a baby in the womb as host, when that child is born, the memories of the old man who had been long dead gets downloaded into the new child, and the child will begin to say things grandpa did. because you don't know what happened, you call it 'reincarnation'. Lies. Satanic antics to keep you bound

. give me proof not assumptions, i have provided both logical and scientific explanation of reincarnation on my own created topic, go thru it. you are just being unnecessarily ignorant , if i can say. you believe it bcus your bible said it or because your pastor confirm it.

The Spirits parading as forefathers are demons/familiar spirits. Our forefathers never possessed special powers while alive, no one gave them powers at death

they possess legacy which they pass to us that venerate them, it is not about magical power that your bible said jews ancestor possess. Mandela, Thomas Jefferson, Margrethe of the UK are all respective heroes of their time and the nations they represent still venerate them till today

They are demons/fallen angels/familiar spirits sir. It has nothing to do with morphology (words). It has everything to do with their mode of operations. How they act.

this is just a baseless assumption without proof. i do not follow blindly

Bad reference. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, David etc are our ancestors, yes. The question remains, what special powers did they possesses on their own to put them in the place of gods at death?

they are not my ancestors, they are are for the Jews, and they can only be your ancestor if you are of Jewish origin or family, bible ascribe supernatural to their feet, how true it is i do not know. at least Moses was recorded to divide the red sea. that is special power.

1. Do the Jews and Christians ascribe powers to these ancestors? No.
2. Do the Jews/Christians call these men for help? No
3. Do the Jews/Christians see these men as conduit to YHWH? Hell No.
4. Do they pour libation, offer sacrifices, and worship these men? No.

i have answer your postulation above, but let me ask you a question what is culture, define it? you have forgotten the ritual practices in the bible.the splitting of bird bloods and the rest.

The Jew's ancestors are not gods to them pls.

yes just like our ancestor are not the sole creator

Again, it's not the same. What your ancestors are to you, is worlds apart from what the ancestor are to the Jews.

That is where you are wrong. The demons parading as the ancestors misleads you, especially when it concerns your future. You are told there's no devil. They make you believe devil is only a myth propagated by the Christians. You believe them.

In ATR, your gods only do you good except you default. Even after that, after appeasements, it ends there. In ATR, no justice for the oppressed. No recompense for the wicked(maybe there's no wickedness in ATR?).
But the question you have not asked yourself is, 'why all these evil in the world? What happens to those who are so heartless as to behead another human for whatever reason. What will happen to a man or woman who in a quest to make money, kills a pregnant woman, cuts her open, takes the baby in her, pounds it into pulp to make money rituals?

In ATR, when you die, you become an ancestor automatically, since there's no hellfire or an authority that'll demands from you an accounts of what you did, what happens to the evil committed by you while alive?

When you think critically, you'll see that you have been deceived about your future. There is a day for accountability. No man will escape it.

Life is a Seed in itself, and everything we do, we sow seeds, when Seeds are sown, they bear fruits. Whatsoever a man sows, he shall reap it. Believe it or not.


@bolded. What they accomplished in the past for you?

Show respect to the dead? They are dead and awaiting to receive their rewards of how they lived on earth. Why do you think they need our respect?

No, i am not disrespecting my forefathers. My forefathers are dead, hence; has no need for my respect. They don't need my veneration because you venerate a living person. When it gets to the dead, it because idol worship.

Satan is exposed.

i am so tired of replying to you long epistle, there is too much misinformation on your part, but i will end up with a wisdom verse from odu ifa , the scriptures reference of the Yoruba,
the Odu Ifa: Ogbe Rosun

B'o ba se wipe ti Ifa
l'a ba ngbo,
A ba pe bi ara iwaju ti pe.
B'o ba se wipe ti
Orunmila l'a ba n to lehin,
A ba dagba bi
ara igbahun-igbahun.

"If we would listen
to the teachings of Ifa,
we would endure
like our ancestors endured.
If we follow the teachings of Orunmila
we would become reverred elders
like the ancients."


ALL i can feel from you reply is the presence of brainwashing. stop attacking what you do not know. ask question instead.

vaxx:
[/quote]they are not spirit of the departed forefathers, they are memory of the the departed forefathers ,No power is given to them , it is absolutely wrong information you have learn about true ATR. It is imperative you learn ATR before you attack it, you do not attack the idealogy you knew nothing about, it is called blasphemy. our Ancestors do not make plans to helps us unlike those of you Christianized thinkers waiting on a spook savior, It is the Living that must make the plans. The ancestor role is only to help us carry out the plans we have devised. Only Egu (revered ancestors) can do this; they are distinct from just from any dead person When you venerate their memory, you tap the will and the the power to positively help you.

Which of the memory is called Aja, Aje, Ayao, mawu, Nana buluku, and Egungun?
So you venerate memories, or memories have another meaning in ATR? You are almost sounding like a Catholic here.

Pls quote me rightly, i didn't your ancestors makes plans for you. I said, you call them for help. All the deities i mentioned up there, do certain things (your plans) for you people, Where do they get their powers from?

The Living and the deed, who shd be stronger? The dead? Why?

vaxx:
[/quote]However, if you are venerating cross like you did yesterday for good Friday who was unworthy of being ancestor since he belong to another race, you will introduce negativity in your live. Such an unworthy ancestors will only want to continue their unworthiness. and you will find yourself in a situation like Nigeria people that often celebrate any ancestor (worthy or unworthy) and that is part of the reason they wreck havoc in the country. They venerate character like Jesus and Muhammad and then you should wonder why NIGERIA is so addicted in sending negative signal to the world.

Hahahahahahaha. Imao. Only the dead who remain dead are called and worshipped as ancestors, yeah? Well, Jesus is not dead. He is alive for ever. I don't worship a dead god.

And it is very laughable to say because He is not African He is not qualified to be an ancestor. Hahahahahahaha. So, only Africans have ancestors? Abeg no kill me with laf.

How did Muhammed come in here? You and muhammed serves demons. Allah is satan if you haven't decoded that, then sorry.

vaxx:
[/quote]The modern Africans' rejection of their own ancestor and the embrace of worthless ancestor, is a major reason Blacks are in a downward spiral to self-destruction. so Let us suck on the tit of the ancestor and we will have all the nourishment we need to achieve all our ambitions.

I dont reject my ancestors, just don't worship demons who p
Masquerade as the spirits of my dead relatives. The dead stays dead until Judgment Day. No more, no less.

It ia the deep worship of demons called ancestors that has brought curses on Africans the way they.

God says anyone who worships idols shall be cursed and their generations shall be cursed to the fourth generation, and if the fourth generation continues in idolatry, the curse continues.

Can't you see how wretched witch doctors are? Their children never amounts to anything in life. The ones who try ends up saddled with backwardness and obscurity.

Paganism is African's undoing.

Emmanystone:
they are not spirit of the departed forefathers, they are memory of the the departed forefathers ,No power is given to them , it is absolutely wrong information you have learn about true ATR. It is imperative you learn ATR before you attack it, you do not attack the idealogy you knew nothing about, it is called blasphemy. our Ancestors do not make plans to helps us unlike those of you Christianized thinkers waiting on a spook savior, It is the Living that must make the plans. The ancestor role is only to help us carry out the plans we have devised. Only Egu (revered ancestors) can do this; they are distinct from just from any dead person When you venerate their memory, you tap the will and the the power to positively help you.
Which of the memory is called Aja, Aje, Ayao, mawu, Nana buluku, and Egungun?
So you venerate memories, or memories have another meaning in ATR? You are almost sounding like a Catholic here.

Pls quote me rightly, i didn't your ancestors makes plans for you. I said, you call them for help. All the deities i mentioned up there, do certain things (your plans) for you people, Where do they get their powers from?

The Living and the deed, who shd be stronger? The dead? Why?


However, if you are venerating cross like you did yesterday for good Friday who was unworthy of being ancestor since he belong to another race, you will introduce negativity in your live. Such an unworthy ancestors will only want to continue their unworthiness. and you will find yourself in a situation like Nigeria people that often celebrate any ancestor (worthy or unworthy) and that is part of the reason they wreck havoc in the country. They venerate character like Jesus and Muhammad and then you should wonder why NIGERIA is so addicted in sending negative signal to the world.
Hahahahahahaha. Imao. Only the dead who remain dead are called and worshipped as ancestors, yeah? Well, Jesus is not dead. He is alive for ever. I don't worship a dead god.

And it is very laughable to say because He is not African He is not qualified to be an ancestor. Hahahahahahaha. So, only Africans have ancestors? Abeg no kill me with laf.

How did Muhammed come in here? You and muhammed serves demons. Allah is satan if you haven't decoded that, then sorry.


The modern Africans' rejection of their own ancestor and the embrace of worthless ancestor, is a major reason Blacks are in a downward spiral to self-destruction. so Let us suck on the tit of the ancestor and we will have all the nourishment we need to achieve all our ambitions.
I dont reject my ancestors, just don't worship demons who p
Masquerade as the spirits of my dead relatives. The dead stays dead until Judgment Day. No more, no less.

It ia the deep worship of demons called ancestors that has brought curses on Africans the way they.

God says anyone who worships idols shall be cursed and their generations shall be cursed to the fourth generation, and if the fourth generation continues in idolatry, the curse continues.

Can't you see how wretched witch doctors are? Their children never amounts to anything in life. The ones who try ends up saddled with backwardness and obscurity.

Paganism is African's undoing.

you are not ready to learn, let me know when you make up your mind. it is very dangerous to argue with someone who possess zero knowledge of the argument. it is called blind argument.

vaxx:
[/quote]it is not about any magical power[/b]as you inclined, it is about the legacy this ancestor pass in us, not all ancestors are worthy to be venerated, only those who pass the true legacy are worthy. just like the way our country still remember someone like awolowo and azikwe and pay less attention to someone like abacha.

Sir, you did not answer my queation. You pour libation calling on the ancestors for rain, good harvest, healing, the sun, fertility and the rest. If they don't have thw powers to give you what you ask of them, you won't ask. So, where do they get their powers from, seeing they were men like you and i, and while alive didn't have power.

Keep veneration aside.

vaxx:
[/quote]you are wrong again, [b]ancestors are not equal to GOD, true ancestors are simply heroes who have impact positively in their lifetime before they pass away, i will only become a true ancestor worthy of veneration if i pass good legacy like that of the people of the past. my remembrance will awaken positiveness in them. the legacy of ojukwu is still well emphasized in igbo land.

Why then do you demand from them only what God can do?
And i promised you, no Igbo man can ask the spirit of Ojukwu for rain, now or ever.

vaxx:
[/quote]i am not interested in attacking Christianity, even if you you found it fit to attack my faith due to your ignorance. i will only ask you a question. prove the evidence of Christianity beyond the light of the gospel. the light of the gospel is base on the written hands of men so it is not infallible.

Me. I am the evidence beyond the pages of the Bible. I know who i used to be. When i tell you that serious work has been done in me, believe me.

My attitude, ah. Habits. The things used to without any iota of shame or guilt, i can't do them today.

My life now is the opposite of who i use to be. There are certain character traits i knew i'd overcome, as i see myself rising and falling. But, today, i am solidly free. All by prayers and doing what the Bible says.

Haven't you heard of Prostitutes or Armed robbers repenting? I have seen native doctors repent. Satan worshipers repent and leave everything they knew to do before.

Christianity is not in the pages of paper, it is expressed in our every day life.

vaxx:
[/quote]give me proof not assumptions, i have provided both logical and scientific explanation of reincarnation on my own created topic, go thru it. you are just being unnecessarily ignorant , if i can say. you believe it bcus your bible said it or because your pastor confirm it.

The only thing you know about reincarnation is what the demons have convinced you about and because you don't know who is behind it, you believed.

Demons/familiar spirits attached to family bloodlines are responsible for the reincarnation charade.

Ask yourself this, Why does reincarnation happen only in the Families of those who worship idols? Why not in Christian homes? Have you ever heard a Christian family reporting that their child has memories of a certain great grand father? No. Why not?

If our forefathers come back, they won't only come back to certain families but won't come in some.

[quote author=vaxx post=66310083][/quote]This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read on Nairaland.

I'm a 24/7, 360 degrees unbeliever and sceptic, but what you've laid out contains so much love of humanity, GOOD information and straightforward common sense that it can only be Kryptonite to the Xtian and Muslim slaves amongst us.

I sometimes feel like giving up completely on Naija and our continent in general but posts like this remind me there are others out there who have dreams beyond being anointed, blessed and reborn as sons and daughters of our slavemasters war gods.

Emmanystone:
It ia the deep worship of demons called ancestors that has brought curses on Africans the way they.

God says anyone who worships idols shall be cursed and their generations shall be cursed to the fourth generation, and if the fourth generation continues in idolatry, the curse continues.

Can't you see how wretched witch doctors are? Their children never amounts to anything in life. The ones who try ends up saddled with backwardness and obscurity.

Paganism is African's undoing.

Please, stop trolling. Our people are drowning in genocidal self-hatred & wilful ignorance. There's a time for jokes, but not here and not now.

Abeg.

vaxx:
[/quote]They possess legacy which they pass to us that venerate them, it is not about magical power that your bible said jews ancestor possess. Mandela, Thomas Jefferson, Margrethe of the UK are all respective heroes of their time and the nations they represent still venerate them till today

What do you mean by the bolded? How do you possess legacy?
And, i never heard anyone pouring libation to Mandela, or Thomas Jefferson or Moses. And asking them to give them rain, good harvest healing and protection. Only you the ancestors worshippers do. Yet you compare your ancestors with people who were just people and died.

You didn't answer me where your ancestors got the power to give rain or protection from. Oh wait it's legacy right?

vaxx:
[/quote]they are not my ancestors, they are are for the Jews, and they can only be your ancestor if you are of Jewish origin or family, bible ascribe supernatural to their feet, how true it is i do not know. at least Moses was recorded to divide the red sea. that is special power.

But, you compared them to your own ancestors, only these ancestors do not have powers, but yours do. How. Moses divided the Red Sea or God? Lolzzzz.

vaxx:
[/quote]i have answer your postulation above, but let me ask you a question what is culture, define it? you have forgotten the ritual practices in the bible.the splitting of bird bloods and the rest.

Sorry sir, you didn't answer any if my questions. Pls don't jump to something else when we are not done here.
These are the questions again.
1. Do the Jews and Christians ascribe powers to these ancestors? No.
2. Do the Jews/Christians call these men for help? No
3. Do the Jews/Christians see these men as conduit to YHWH? Hell No.
4. Do they pour libation, offer sacrifices, and worship these men? No.

If you have answered them, then point me to them.

vaxx:
[/quote]yes just like our ancestor are not the sole creator

But you do oblations to them. You appease them by sacrificing to them. You evoke them to give to you what only God can give. What does that tell you?

Sir, the spirits parading as ancestors seeking your worship are demons.

@Emmanystone

This thread is purposely opened for the adherents of ATS to rub mind and exchange knowledge, and those who will to learn about traditional. You have done so well by derailing this long. Can you please leave peacefully and join your colleagues in faith where topic founded on Christianity is the talk? Thanks

@Pagan9ja

The thread has been derailed but not withstanding, we can still keep on with the purpose the thread is determined to serve, which I believe is Education. Kindly explain what you want us to share. Or kinda example of what you have in mind that should be shared.

FOLYKAZE:
@Emmanystone

This thread is purposely opened for the adherents of ATS to rub mind and exchange knowledge, and those who will to learn about traditional. You have done so well by derailing this long. Can you please leave peacefully and join your colleagues in faith where topic founded on Christianity is the talk? Thanks

Same nonsense happened on a thread which someone who was having existential crisis opened. The thread turned to atheist/Christian suicide debate from the third post and OP had to abandon his own thread www.nairaland.com/4422525/looking-what-die-hence-theres

I blame those that are responding, if y'all ignored and faced the purpose of the thread this wouldn't have happened. I understand that being called "wretched" and "Invalid" can hurt a bit but its the internet where anything goes

@pagan9ja, check out this thread https://www.nairaland.com/4392592/thread-questions-vaxx-religion-yoruba

vaxx:
[/quote]"If we would listen
to the teachings of Ifa,
we would endure
like our ancestors endured.
If we follow the teachings of Orunmila
we would become reverred elders
like the ancients."

And here is advise for you.
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs:14:12

The worship of demons may seem right now, but the end, you shall meet your maker, then it shall be too late.

CuteMadridista:
Same nonsense happened on a thread which someone who was having existential crisis opened. The thread turned to atheist/Christian suicide debate from the third post and OP had to abandon his own thread www.nairaland.com/4422525/looking-what-die-hence-theres

I blame those that are responding, if y'all ignored and faced the purpose of the thread this wouldn't have happened. I understand that being called "wretched" and "Invalid" can hurt a bit but its the internet where anything goes

And here is hopefullandlord a suppose atheist who does not believe in gods.

As Water answers to the face, so the deep calls to the deep. If you understand this you will stop pretending you are not a satanist.

Emmanystone:
And here is hopefullandlord a suppose atheist who does not believe in gods.

As Water answers to the face, so the deep calls to the deep. If you understand this you will stop pretending you are not a satanist.

Okay

TrajansKong:
Please, stop trolling. Our people are drowning in genocidal self-hatred & wilful ignorance. There's a time for jokes, but not here and not now.

Abeg.

Perhaps you are the joker here. People are evoking demons thereby bringing curses on the land, but here you are talking about jokes.

Why aren't you there saving us from the herdamen?

An atheists said, Christ was invented to keep people from retaliating when unjustly maltreated. Yes, we don't fight back, but what is stopping you? No law binds you, why aren't you out there?

FOLYKAZE:
@Emmanystone

This thread is purposely opened for the adherents of ATS to rub mind and exchange knowledge, and those who will to learn about traditional. You have done so well by derailing this long. Can you please leave peacefully and join your colleagues in faith where topic founded on Christianity is the talk? Thanks

We need to warn people from dead. The worship of ancestors, is the worship of demons. Idolatry brings curses on the land. See our country? We are the way we are as a result of the blood that has been offered to satan by you guys.

OUR LAND IS CURSED because OF YOUR ACTIVITIES.

vaxx:
you are not ready to learn, let me know when you make up your mind. it is very dangerous to argue with someone who possess zero knowledge of the argument. it is called blind argument.

Not ready to learn Paganism? Wait!!! Not ready to learn the worship if demons. Wonderfullll.

I should come back to the darkness i left off? No way sir. Here i am praying the scales on your eyes falls off.

Emmanystone:
People are evoking demons thereby bringing curses on the land, but here you are talking about jokes.

Stop.

You are not 4 years old. You are a legal adult. Demons are not real. You are. 'Curses' cant be brought on any land, but your feeble-minded slavish cowardice can.

If you genuinely believe what you claim (and I doubt this strongly), you are a perfect example of our hopeless, inferiority-complexed, fear-driven, slowpoke-masses.

You can never be saved by outside or higher powers. Knowing this, you perish inwardly and outwardly minute by minute, every day.

Please leave Africa alone with your foolishness...

...and stop trolling...

TrajansKong:
Stop.

You are not 4 years old. You are a legal adult. Demons are not real. You are. 'Curses' cant be brought on any land, but your feeble-minded slavish cowardice can.

If you genuinely believe what you claim (and I doubt this strongly), you are a perfect example of our hopeless, inferiority-complexed, fear-driven, slowpoke-masses.

You can never be saved by outside or higher powers. Knowing this, you perish inwardly and outwardly minute by minute, every day.

Please leave Africa alone with your foolishness...

...and stop trolling...

Lord should i respond to this 24/7days 365 days round the clock satan worshiper? No.
So, pls shift. If you were a lil close to the light, we could talk. You know not what you say, or pretend not to know, either way, Gerarahia.

Emmanystone:
Wow, PaganNaija, is that you? Hmmm. But are you people so wretched and backward?

You guys claim to do great things for people, but you and your immediate families are always so poor and mostly the kids turnout invalids, like im.becilse. Why?

You need to read this

https://www.nairaland.com/4431445/life-meaningless-need-exit

FOLYKAZE:
@Pagan9ja

The thread has been derailed but not withstanding, we can still keep on with the purpose the thread is determined to serve, which I believe is Education. Kindly explain what you want us to share. Or kinda example of what you have in mind that should be shared.

What I had in mind should've been discussed from the start of the thread to keep it fruitful, informative and on track.

I wanted information. stuff you cant get from books. From personal experiences and homes of individual Nairalanders from different tribes.

There are many deities that are extinct or their reverance on the brink. some rituals some festivals discontinued. Some of the knowledge remains with the elders. Maybe they saw it pacticed in their youth? If each Nairalander could contribute such quintissential details from their elders we could peace together a whole lot of useful information especially from people belonging to minority tribes.