₦airaland Forum

larrrymore:
it happen here..... a nurse give suggestions but the Dr ignore it.... later the patient die...... when the relative of the patient took it up.. the panel found out the Dr s guilty...to safe his job they transferred him to another hospital while the relative think they sack him

xreal:
Do you know the rigours pharmacist go through before being certified? Same goes to medical health records professionals who renew their certificates every year (either employed or not).

Relate with the physiotherapist, Radiologist and you will know how vital their role is in the hospital.

Don't let us mention nurses.

Being a medical doctor is by choice, just as being a medical laboratory scientist is.

Discrimination shouldn't be that obvious in a government established hospital.

Yes, doctors can earn more from call duty allowances, pharmacist also run call, virtually most of these professionals run one of either overtime, call, and so on. The difference can come from there and not salary scale.

Also if I am a Radiologist, let an experienced radiologist head my department and not a medical doctor.

I am sure if JOHESU keeps quiet as they had been, a medical doctor will head the works department ( if that hasn't been happening already).

oyatz:
You don't even know what you are saying.
A radiologist is a medical doctor with postgraduate specialization in radiology.

mfm04622:
So you want to earn same amount with doctors? Do you think it is fair for you a lab technician that spent 3 years in school and a doctor that spent 6 to earn the same?
When it comes to administration of hospitals, yes doctors should not be head of hospitals. Doctors don't have any advantage over other professionals when it comes to managing hospitals.

Solababa91:
I want you to know that this fight about emoluments have been on ground for a long time, but let me tell you the most recent episode, the strike JOHESU embarked on in 2016 was to push their grievances, the FG yielded, and promised to effect the payment from Sept last year or thereabout, JOHESU worried why it was not effected made it findings and found out NMA has hands in it, so JOHESU has a form of SOS had to publish that so as to inform the general public what they have been enduring so as to press home their demand. And as far as am concerned, there is nothing wrong with that, it is false that JOHESU wants equal pay with Doctors as NMA is saying because I. The amount JOHESU wants was also published, and it is not at par with NMA's. ii. The professional bodies under JOHESU (Nurses, Pharmacist, MLS and others) do not even get equal pay so how on earth would they be clamoring for equal pay with Doctors. I want you to know that disrespect is not only in name calling, or body language. That Doctors even see other licensed Professionals as people who don't treat patients or irrelevant and feels they are all encompassing and can do every man's job is equally disrespect. A Doctor would write a referral to a Physiotherapist and include in it the type of treatment that should be given the patient, I wonder why the Doctor will even refer in the first place he should have treated the patient himself since he knows what to do. This is disrespectful, the Physiotherapist is trained, licensed and certified to do whatever he deems fit, he is aware of his duties and responsibilities for God sake, he is not a TECHNICIAN, to be dictated to, he has gone through anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology for a number of years any other courses DEEMED FIT for his training and thereafter a Licensed and certified Professional to practice. The attitude you got from the MLS intern you referred to though wrong, I condemn it, but is a resultant effect of what she sees Doctors do to other professionals long before now. Do you know there are Doctors that still write referrals with prescription sheets? Even when the referral sheet is available? It is disrespectful, a lot of issues needs to be resolved. Until Doctors see patient care as multidisciplinary and that patient condition dictates who the head of a Medical team will be then, will we get it right, and there will be harmony amongst all professionals but if they still feel they are all in all, we are in for a long thing.

P.S.: You will be the first Doctor to approach issues politely on this thread, may be you serve as a point of reference to other arrogant ones. Once again I commend your maturity.

oyatz:
You don't even know what you are saying.
A radiologist is a medical doctor with postgraduate specialization in radiology.

xreal:
Since when?

Are you just awake?

Go back to sleep.

amaham:
I think the guy is right, do a check to confirm pls

DABMarkNig2019:
How i wish you can pass your PLAB or USMLE because you'll get to know how the health care system is operated. from there you'll become a change agent.

Deniceone:
Meaning the patient belongs to every member of the health team. if your mistake costs the patient, you go down for it! Patient belongs to everybody and to nobody!

careerwoman:
Yes, you have the right to discuss your finances with your employer. But why would you publish a comparison of salary between doctors and other health workers? Your ogas dragged doctors into the matter in the first place. I heard the right information about this strike even before it started. See, what your JOHESU ogas are after is for the removal of relativity and pay parity with doctors amongst other things. They were offered a salary raise at the first negotiation but they refused because it will automatically increase the doctor's salary. It's the relativity that's their problem not the salary raise (they haven't told you the truth). They know they have the numbers and will easily manipulate their junior members who already have had a bad experience with proud and poorly behaved doctors. When a doctor is proud or disrespectful, it's his personality and his problem. The profession is not to blame. All doctors are not proud or badly behaved. Stop the generalisation. That's the problem in the country. We make hasty generalisation of a particular group when we allow our emotions cloud our judgement.
Not all your members are saints either and some of them are also very rude and disrespectful. I've had my own good and bad experiences too..

My team had an emergency surgery one morning and asked that I go to the lab for an urgent PCV to be done for the patient. I took the sample myself and went to the lab.. I met a fellow med lab intern, greeted her very well ooo (because once they know you're a doctor, they toughen up) begged her to help me do the PCV. This madam blatantly refused saying that I would have to wait for the next person on duty who will come an hour later. I begged and begged but she didn't move a muscle (Simple PCV that I can do myself). I left the room and met her colleague on the corridor, ask that one politely and she didn't even allow me finish. She immediately took the sample and within 15-20 mins gave me the result.
So you see, doctors aren't the only ones to blame..
Mutual respect is key!!

danilmo:
pls remain in ur house ,
keep the strike alive while patient patronise our private hospital..



all dsame, all na win win for doctors.

Cityguy:
Exactly! We don't have this kind of nonsense there because they all know their places and the doc is the BOSS! NMA is for doctors and the other co-workers have their individual associations but because of the fact that they do not match individually, the need to gang-up under the amorphous JOHESU to hold Nigerians to ransom arose. Government should simply outsource pharmacy and lab services and most of these problems will fizzle out. Alternatively, govt should just hands-off health. Privatise and let's see an investor that would keep the senior cadres of these allied professions who spend greater part of the day gossiping or aimlessly roaming the whole space in his or her employ.

Hairyrapunzel:
When the doctor was cracking his or her head to make diagnosis and lay out recommended treatment plan you were not there. Of course he is the boss. A boss can be corrected on a mistake by a lower employee and yet the boss is still the boss.
Most patients in Nigeria die because the get to the hospital late. A pharmacist who assumes he is a medical doctor will sell drugs to a Patient without prescription because he wants to make money. By the time the patient gets to the hospital it's already too late.
Thank God you said Sometimes drug drug interactions
Might not be right. It means this isn't always the case. Sometimes even drug drug interactions you consider wrong may be right for the patient after weighing the benefits to the risks. Have you ever asked a physician the rationale behind prescribing drugs in a certain way you don't agree with? You should ask before you conclude. You guys love painting doctors black and it's already a problem. I remember one pharmacist shouting at me in the presence of the patient I attended to that my prescription was wrong and I was to prescribe flagyl for plasmodiasis instead of coartem. Though I was angry, I still remained calm. When she finished shouting I told her to dispense as I wasn't going to change the prescription. She had to Google plasmodiasis before she went to dispense the drug. Another day I prescribed an antibiotic for a diabetic patient for 14days and she came to tell me I was wrong as the right thing was to give the drug for 5 days I tried explaining my reason and the pharmacist didn't agree. Another one I prescribed dly arthemeter of 160mg he said is a lie that is 80mg daily I tried explaining he still didn't agree. Most pharmacists have a very bad manner in which they approach issues like this. They feel since they learnt how to produce drugs and interpret prescriptions they know the diseases too. This is actually a very wrong notion.

You people are yet to mention the developed countries where pharmacists apart from prescribe drugs apart from OTC's to individuals who don't have doctors prescription.

Hairyrapunzel:
Thank God you did not come here to say you prescribe drugs.
At least the patient is alive to come for rehabilitation abi is it people you guys rehabilitate? Now will know that the doctor restores the life of the patient so you guys can work on a living Patient.
Physiotherapist will come into play when the physician decides the patient is ready for it.
At least you say pure medicine. I guess you consider your physiotherapy adulterated medicine.
Since you don't prescribe drugs or monitor the disease process, the doctor is responsible for this part. The patient with HIV meningoencephalitis who you say progressed to stroke will keep deteriorating if the doctors stop seeing him. Don't come here and give us lecture about you bringing the patient to the nearest state before the ailment when you don't know the pains people went through to keep that patient alive. You just want to undermine the doctors position in his patient's care so as to elevate your own.
Is it a dead Patient you will rehabilitate?

Hairyrapunzel:
What ignorance? Is it not the doctor that will decide whether or not a Patient needs rehabilitation? Is it a dead body you want to rehabilitate?

Hairyrapunzel:
If the kangaroo diagnosis wasn't made and he wasn't treated you will rehabilitate a dead body.

Hairyrapunzel:
Hemiplegia and paresis are not diseases, Spasticity isn't a disease, muscular deformity isnt a disease too. Diseases have names. Let him stop taking the drugs and going to see his doctor and see if its not dead body you will rehabilitate. You have your job description yet you rely on the doctor to keep the patient stable. Who is boasting between two of us? First, you tried to undermine the very important role of the doctor, next you try to take up a role not meant for you giving people false impression and now you talk about boasting. See yourself

Hairyrapunzel:
What is disability? Like I said disability isn't a disease. You don't even know your work.
Thank God you said a disease is a disorder that leads to loss of function or structure.
Disability isn't the disorder that leads to loss of function or structure. You want to force yourself to treat diseases when you too don't know jack about treating diseases.
Fear did not allow you define disability. You rehabilitate and you don't treat diseases accept it.
A physiotherapists doesn't treat any disease. Their function is to rehabilitate people who have impairments or disability.
Diseases and accidents lead to disabilities. You rehabilitate patients with disabilities and do not treat the disease process. Stop lying to yourself. You don't even know your job.
See someone that thinks hemiplegia and muscular deformity is a disease.
Accept the fact that you don't treat diseases.
That's how you will be saying you treat diseases when you don't know jack about diseases.

Hairyrapunzel:
Nowhere in the google did they say physiotherapists treat diseases. If there was you would have taken a screen shot and shown me. A disabled patient is different from a Patient with disease. You don't even know your job description.
How are gait abnormality, hemiplegia and spasticity diseases? If they where diseases you would would have googled them and screen grabbed them to put on this thread. You guy don't even know the basic aim of physiotherapy.

You want me to define hemiplegia, spasticity and abnormal gait for you? See physiotherapist saying he treats diseases whereas he doesn't know the difference between disease and disability. It's only in Nigeria that physiotherapists say they treat diseases. Even google doesn't say so.

careerwoman:
Very saddening... A record officer claims he's on strike and refuses to bring out folders of old patients during clinic or open folders for new patients. However, his aunt suffers a cardiac arrest and he immediately shows up and opens a folder for her to see the doctor in the clinic. My consultant was very unhappy with him. If you're on strike, stay on strike. Don't offer preferential service. Better still, take her to your ogas at the top (consultant pharmacist and nurses) since they have said that they can manage patients without doctors too. The masses are the ones at the receiving end of this strike not the FG or the doctors.
Everyone should stop being greedy or selfish and look at things logically. Go back to the negotiation table and reason with FG on significant things like career progression, more funding of the health sector, and restructuring of the health system. Misinforming the public and insulting doctors on social media doesn't make you any better to take up higher (admin) positions. It simply means that if given the opportunity to head the sector, everything will go haywire. If you don't respect doctors now, how will you respect them when you're in an admin position..

Gliding:
When people decide to implement a rare first world occurrence in a third world country, disaster is always the result.
One advanced country appoints consultant technician, and Nigerian technicians demand same. When did one country become international best practice? Why haven't they imported things like locum lab scientist, automated laboratories (that don't require much personnel) , compulsory vetting of lab results by pathologists etc.

We are really interesting

Gliding:
"Spewing nonsense"" I knew you would show your true colors. Most people that don't have facts tend to become abusive.

To reiterate, decisions on patient are taken by the doctor (who is the head of the medical team) and he is responsible for the success or failure recorded.

Someone has to be the head and be held responsible. That's why football coaches are sacked for the team's poor performance. If the head feels someone is misbehaving, he deals with it.

sogodihno:
seriously? So a doctor will be held responsible for the mistake of a pharmacist? it's not worth arguing with you, after all, it's a pity. Take care.

ShldnCooper:
"NUC" AND CURRICULUM REVIEWS: CAREER PROGRESSION OR CARICATURE OF MEDICINE:
"DOCTORING" NIGERIANS TO DEATH!

By DR. KAYODE O.V.

"The world is a dangerous place not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing" (Albert Einstein).

It was about few years ago when I went to one of the pharmacies in town to get some drugs. There were so many people on the queue including Nursing mothers and their apparently ailing children (that is what is in vogue now, mothers with very ill children parading drug stores instead of hospitals).

I had just finished paying when I realized the woman behind me was carrying a grunting child (the child was having laboured breathing) while still asking for more medications. In her words: "the child never get better o, infact he still dey cough and no dey sleep well at night. Na so so 'hun - hun' he dey do". I moved away as if I was leaving the store but I realized the attending shop owner (a Pharmacist by the way) was trying to give another rounds of bottled drugs. I was unsure of what to do. This is Nigeria where any attempt to introduce yourself and help as a doctor is perceived as pride so I tried to move on.

Here is a child who needs supplemental Oxygen and intravenous antibiotics at the least, being stuffed with oral drugs. No one tries that in developed climes selling antibiotics on the counter without prescription. Yet we want to copy those concepts that soothe us from UK or US while ignoring what made those novel ideas work.

Going further, I managed to slow down momentarily at the second thought and quickly made a side turn towards the woman while her child drugs were being put together. " Madam, I said , take this child to the hospital, he needs serious medical attention."
What a joke I was. She didn't move an inch, instead looked at me for a split of seconds and then turned to pay for her drugs.

And of course, the shop owner was so displeased that he was trying to get my identity. That is the kind of health system Nigeria operates. No regulation whatsoever and you are wondering why we still lead the mortality packs? And that is the fault of the doctors?

Whereas you cannot get a dose of antibiotics in US or UK unless prescribed, you can have dozens on the counter here in Nigeria just by naming the drugs verbally at any chemist or pharmacy stores. And who cares?

That is the country that wants to empower more non-medically qualified as consultants.

My country now has decided to offer Medical laboratory scientists: Doctor of Medical laboratory science (MLS -D) as a 6 - year undergraduate course! Magical!

Even in Britain, Ireland and USA which we always like to "copy copy" as an example of international standard, MLS - D is a postgraduate degree.

More than 10years ago, MLS was a 4- year course and then within few years of starting this degree of a course that used to be a diploma, it was "updated" to a 5 - year course. See career progression o!

And May this year, MLS is now a 6- year course with more courses from Medicine and Surgery being added to their curriculum! More Pharmacology and therapeutics, more Embryology and more dissection in gross anatomy as an undergraduate of MLS!

National Universities Commission (NUC) - U na weldone o! Is this a Medical student curriculum or what? I read that document and I knew Nigeria has missed it again!

Prof. Abubakar Rasheed of the NUC sir, creating a pseudo - medical degree in the name of curriculum update in a country that loves empty titles and quackery is the worst thing to do for humanity in this part of the world. This is a major blunder sir and I don't know which global University you are copying sir.....How did you get this job sir?

Every health allied course now strives to do internship and to upgrade their curriculum thus extending their years in Schools in the name of career progression. It is highly noted.

No one becomes a medically qualified doctor by wishes, it is by going to a medical school. Neither, does the number of years one spends in a particular school equate the knowledge acquired in that school to practicing medicine.

Otherwise, Catholic Priests would have been the most qualified for the job of practicing medicine, spending 9 straight years learning Philosophy, Theology and doing Pastoral work. Albeit they are doctors of souls, Priests like that know their self - worth and what they have been called to do!

Prof Rasheed Abubakar should be ready to upgrade other allied health sciences in the nearest future really:

Undergraduate students of Nursing, Physiotherapy, Radiography, Pharmacy, Generator technicians and students studying Transport management with love for hospital work should get ready to have 1 or 2 extra years without having carry- overs, it is a year of career progression!

It is interesting to note that doctoral programme in clinical laboratory in UK is just becoming popular as a postgraduate degree! (You can search the web please). Here Nigeria is starting a doctorate undergraduate degree....incurable madness. Who cursed this nation? Oh Flora, oh Lugard: you did more harm than good really!

Ours is faulty amalgamation.

What else?

The politicians are so happy presently, they have given us something to chew for a very long time. At this time when we should be scouting for better leadership, we are cocooned into myriads of requests on career progression: Consultancy, Postgraduate fellowship like a a sandwiched programme, curriculum extension, equity. Only in this already asphyxiating health care sector? Incredible.....

Should Britain have been operating full of flaws like this, President Buhari and his political appointees would have stayed behind from London Doctors!

Or is it the London Scientists Doctor they were seeing? Very inundating I must say.

While we praise and salute the courage of those Nurses, Pharmacists, Technicians and other respected health care workers who have travelled far and near. Who are exposed to international practice of appointments and promotions, who understands the ethics and formidable roles they play without being undermined as part of the health team, we would not allow pretentious individuals pass their unfounded claims as the truths uncontrollably!

Therefore, for all those vituperations and absurdities I have read and witnessed since this JOHESU brouhaha started, I have these to say:

While exposure level to international practice by various individuals determines their responses to different posts on the social media and other public domains, such responses also reflect the cerebral complacency and one's neuronal maturation dictated by circumstances of birth vis-à-vis: severely jaundiced or not; asphyxiated or well oxygenated at birth?

Some experience both disasters at birth and thus making further engagements on issues like this a tempestuous calamity.

Never argue with an inept!

What meaningful discussion can one hold with an autistic child who is always in his or her own world: fantasizing and conjuring! If you know, you know!

There is also the theory of redefining terms as ingredients or part of this career progression attempts or is it elongation?

Such attempt of redefining known language or terminologies is similar to someone with waves of ideas as occurs in neologisms of cerebro-vascular accident or of frontal lobe lesions in central nervous system tumours or hysteria of "transmission transmission" aetiology! Such people can thus go to any length to discredit facts but that does not invalidate the truth!

For better understanding of these tirades: How do you explain that someone defining medical students as all students who attend the faculty of health sciences namely, the Nursing students, the Pharmacy students, the students of Radiography and other what have you.

Lumping Medical students who study medicine to become physicians with allied health sciences is the height of delusion. At this age when Google or Wikipedia is so handy, may such ailing souls receive healing soon enough!

This is all in the name of rewriting the history to sell the "equity theory". " Ko joo o" Frog and toads are different, just drop it.....

If we had decided to let go of all the frenzies about equity of pay and not equality of work. How a generator technician should have pay parity with the Pharmacists or the gatemen with the hospital legal team is what I have not been able to wrap around my torso. It doesn't worth my brain really.

But how do you then reconcile the NUC curriculum update of MLS -D with international practices of Universities worldwide?

When there are increasingly less doctor - patient ratio in Nigeria, NUC decided to give us more Dr of Medical laboratory sciences. What a home goal!

"Itsorite" By the time we finish our politics and sentiments in the health sector, government hospitals would be a very good monument!

Every silence is a consent, we are done keeping it cool therefore!

For the more we had kept mute, the more we have been "jostled by the buncombe, and deafening gobbledygook of information persistently flooding our screens, it is time we spoke for posterity's sake.

After all, it is the era of self reporting journalism as we shift from our primary roles of caring for the sick masses to inflicting further pains on already drained citizens. The citizens too cannot feign ignorance of these caricature of a health system or it will be fatal.

For the Medically qualified ones, stand tall and maintain your ethics. Be happy you are being copied....no one copies an idiot! But guide the profession well to the admiration of the Ancestry Hippocrates!

Meanwhile, Kudos to the selfless team of Irrua Doctors who saved the 19 victims of road crash. Either JOHESU members were there or not, no human life is worth loosing. You guys have further corroborated that medicine is more of empathy than spineless emotions. Thank you.

In closing, the political quandary and quagmires of the present Nigeria's clinical state cannot be sorted out even by the best of hands working tirelessly in the best ICU, yet the only song that has filled our ears has been creating parallel promotions and alternatives to studying Medicine in dissimilar fields.

No sensible homo sapien is against career progression because human minds abhor monotonous. But requesting for such career progression must never be by using entirely divergent career templates. That is to say the least ambiguous, fraudulent, chaotic unfounded and counter productive.

The Federal government must rise up against all these multi - hydra requests and caricature of career progression and equity or Nigeria slips further down the line in health indices!

But apparently, its may be none of the FG business; German and London doctors are waiting!

By that time we are done keeping quite, Codeine and tramadol abuse will be the least of our problems that time; antibiotics resistance from proliferation of quacks will be small compare to Ebola hemorrhagic disease!

Abeg! Call me the Consultant HOSPITAL driver with all due respect I need to leave this place NOW!

Hairyrapunzel:
Is prescribing now a job description? For a prescription to be given a diagnosis has to be made. That is an individual is confirmed to have an illness therefore, a treatment plan is laid down. Only the doctor does this.
Pharmacists don't do this, lab scientists don't do this, nurses don't do this, physiotherapists don't do this, radiographers don't only doctors. Try prescribing for an individual that has no prescription from a doctor in developed countries and see if they will not jail you. Are we saying you don't contribute to patient care? It's obvious you guys like twisting things. The doctor makes the decision in managing a patient. He names the disease and lays out the treatment plan. Abi you want to start managing disease you don't know jack about? You make me laugh.
Wanting to do a job that's not your own because you want people to see you as something you are not. Mtcheww. Prescriber of the universe.

chukel:
For those looking for international best practices.

nurain150:
A specialist to a Young Pharmacist guy stop comparing that nosnesne