LaudableXX:

I sign my letters, and send them. But applying an e-mail signature to an application for a job? Nope. It maybe standard practice within your own organisation, but it is not standard practice in several organisations, that I know. For top-level management positions, we use more of head-hunting exercises. People that have easily verifiable performance track records, do not need to go through that route, you listed up here. If you have the skills, qualification, experience and ability to get the job done, and we have proof you have done so in other organisations, we would not ignore you, simply because you didn't attach an e-mail signature to your application.

So you are saying your organisation don't advertise for top level position?

Do you know poaching is unethical? If you poach any of our staff or client's staff we would sue you.

Again filling top level position without advertising is illegal in Nigeria if you are recruiting for government.

For a big company, the Board might terminate your contract.

Again, if you approach me for job and offer it to me, do you think the loyalty I would bring to that job would be the same if I had applied?

Anyway, in our organisation, we expect top level management to sign their applications, unless we are filling that position using Placements.

Following

Someone mentioned me about the difference between Application Letter and Cover Letter, but I couldn't find again.

We rarely use Application Letter in Nigeria. You use Cover Letter if you are submitting a CV. Cover Letter basically shows the position you are applying for, how you saw the opening, why you are the best person for the job.

Application covers everything including your skills, qualifications and job experience.

usibengate:
Following

Welcome.

OfficialAPCNig:
So you are saying your organisation don't advertise for top level position?

Do you know poaching is unethical? If you poach any of our staff or client's staff we would sue you.

Again filling top level position without advertising is illegal in Nigeria if you are recruiting for government.

For a big company, the Board might terminate your contract.

Again, if you approach me for job and offer it to me, do you think the loyalty I would bring to that job would be the same if I had applied?

Anyway, in our organisation, we expect top level management to sign their applications, unless we are filling that position using Placements.

Poaching is unethical? Interesting. And we advertise top-level positions, in addition to head hunting. When suitable candidates are identified, they still have to apply online. And we do not need e-mail signatures, to confirm their identity.

When I was head hunted for my second job by a multinational telecoms firm, which offered me better career prospects, as well as international travel assignments, should I have told them that poaching was illegal? Guy, you are too funny for words...

If you are a thorough-bred professional, you would bring the same level of hard work, loyalty and performance to any job you do, irrespective of if you were approached to do the job, or if you had initially applied for it. Your name and reputation are at stake here, and NOT the method of application. Comprende?

And why should the Board terminate my contract, if another company approaches me based on my reputation and hardwork? All I have to do, is to be transparent about it. I did not ask the recruiter to approach me, did I? All I need to do, is to inform the recruiter that my contract is still in place, so no I cannot take up their offer, or vice versa.

Last line: Our former company secretary, who was also head of our legal dept was 'poached' by a multinational FMCG group. She was also a member of our board. Nobody raised an eyebrow, and we were all sad to see her leave. She had worked with us, for 11 years. So who would have sued whom?

Tell Us About Yourself

This is the point you are hired. Forget about the other questions, they are just periphery.

Get this wrong and your chances might go up in flames.

To be continued

LaudableXX:

Poaching is unethical? Interesting. And we advertise top-level positions, in addition to head hunting. When suitable candidates are identified, they still have to apply online. And we do not need e-mail signatures to confirm their identity. When I was head hunted for my second job by a multinational telecoms firm, which offered me better career prospects, as well as travel plans, should I have told them that poaching was illegal? Guy, you are too funny for words...

In my company, we expect cover letters for top level management position to be signed.

Which position did the multi-national offered you?

LaudableXX:

If you are a thorough-bred professional, you would bring the same level of hard work, loyalty and performance to any job you do, irrespective of if you were approached to do the job, or if you had initially applied for it. Your name and reputation are at stake here, and NOT the method of application. Comprende?

If you practice HR in Nigeria, you would see always see how arrogant some Nigerians are.

LaudableXX:

And why should the Board terminate my contract, if another company approaches me based on my reputation and hardwork? All I have to do, is to be transparent about it. I did not ask the recruiter to approach me, did I? All I need to do, is to inform the recruiter that my contract is still in place, so no I cannot take up their offer, or vice versa.

I wasn't talking about the employee, but the recruiting agency.

There are procedures for filling C-level positions and you must adher to them.

Again it is very expensive to fill C-level positions through that head-hunting.

I am speaking from experience.

In my organisation, my level never reach to lead recruitment for C-level positions, the highest I have gotten was a panel member.

I lead for Mid-level positions, including training and appraisals.

I am ways above entry position, I supervise my team that does that, but sometimes I join the panel. But most of the times, I leave before the end of the entire interview.

My job is to do quality assurance and approve the process before forwarding to management.

OfficialAPCNig:

Sorry, we are not just hiring skills.

In fact, skills make up just 60% of what we are looking for.

We look at character and one way to approximate the type of person you are (serious or unserious, professional or unprofessional) without meeting you is by looking at your email.

Don't forget we ain't begging you. There are others that would gladly take your place.

If you think you have skills, there are much more people better than you.

We don't just need your skills, we need a total human being.

So you think when someone uses an email address that fits your spec that automatically makes him "a complete human being". It becomes proof he or she is a responsible person? You are funny.

If you think there are many skilled people out there to choose from you must be joking. There are people at the apex position of skill level. They are the best out there and you can't find anything better. Lionel Messi for instance is currently seen as the best footballer. So if Messi uses an email address that didn't fit your spec you will leave him and hire an inferior footballer who used your email spec? This partly explains why Nigeria doesn't provide excellent services in many areas. The best people are not hired due to one silly reason or the other.

The reason you are saying all this is only because of the high unemployment rate in the country. Assuming there is shortage of labour all these your email specs wouldn't matter to you anymore.

LaudableXX:


Last line: Our former company secretary, who was also head of our legal dept was 'poached' by a multinational FMCG group. She was also a member of our board. Nobody raised an eyebrow, and we were all sad to see her leave. She had worked with us, for 11 years. So who would have sued whom?

In my organisation, we don't joke with staff turn over either in our organisation or that of our client.

If our organisation handles HR for your company, we would have investigated that and sue that FMCG if there are reasons to do so.

Again, top level positions give 1 months notice before resigning, once we receive that notice, we will start investigating.

We spend much on training so we won't allow any company to steal our investments.

Anyway, they won't even poach us. That is the truth.

All these recruiters with their different standards. Recruiter A's meat will be recruiter B's poison. Can't you people create an umbrella body to set a particular standard or requirements for application. Everyday you read DOs and DONTs of different recruiting agencies, so how do you people expect a job seeker to know the rules to follow for a particular agency........

I tire oooo

glassy:
All these recruiters with their different standards. Recruiter A's meat will be recruiter B's poison. Can't you people create an umbrella body to set a particular standard or requirements for application. Everyday you read DOs and DONTs of different recruiting agencies, so how do you people expect a job seeker to know the rules to follow for a particular agency........

I tire oooo

Yes, we have.

I am a Charterd Personnel Manager and my organisation is also chartered to provide HR services. By this Chartership, I and my organisation are recognised as HR Practitioner by Nigerian law.

Most of the things I am saying are standard practices and only few fell into personal preferences and out of experience practicing in Nigeria.

Nigeria and serenre.. So many people have been employed by top organizations without all these plenty 'rules'.. Op is talking as if he has monopoly of recruitment..

nice one op, I can relate to all except that of top level position.
I once saw a CV with primary sch included in it, I was like what for? She doesnt want it to be more than 2pages, yet, she includes primary sch, 2sec schs and her Uni, but excludes all voluntary works she did in sch and nysc(about 5 active volountary post/membership)
I dont even take hey, xup from people on social media on first meeting.
I once tried talking to an old sch mate about a professional exam, I got his contact through a mutual friend/class mate, I sent him "hello, good day, this is Sam from So so, i need you to help with this this"
The guy replied later that what kind of msg is that, I cant even create a form of familiarity before proceeding to make a request.
op, I think you should add these two;
1; Address, if the company isnt one having branches in almost every town of the state and there is no plan for accomodation, dont use an address far away from the company location, no company wants you to be the last to resume and first to close just because of your distance from home to work.
Social Media; if you are the type that's too lousy and informal on social media, ensure your contacts(email and phone number) are not linked to your social media account. Also, avoid friends that tag you on irrelevant or obscene post, you can delete yourself from such post if tagged.
btw, I'm not into HR, but I know these things.
cc: OfficialAPCNig

OfficialAPCNig:
Someone mentioned me about the difference between Application Letter and Cover Letter, but I couldn't find again.

We rarely use Application Letter in Nigeria. You use Cover Letter if you are submitting a CV. Cover Letter basically shows the position you are applying for, how you saw the opening, why you are the best person for the job.

Application covers everything including your skills, qualifications and job experience.

correct..... Never knew this

majekdom2:
how did you get your UN job? You have zero attention to detail. He said he will not allow figures for email as this lekan18 but will allow for lekanidris18. Go back and read

.




majekdom2, you again? That was how you attacked me then. We quarreled here.

OfficialAPCNig and LaudableXX, we are following you guys here.

This is clash of the titan Among two professional HRs.


No retreat, No surrender.

OfficialAPCNig And LaudableXX, please reply my email messages I sent to both of you.


Thanks

@op I've been following your points step-by-step, and I must thank you for enlightening me free of charge. I would like to know more about signature, because I once applied for a job where signature was needed and I got lost. Please is it like normal signature or what?

OfficialAPCNig:


We have recruited for a top oil servicing company 3 times and 1st quarter next year, we would be doing that again.

Greetings to you Sir @ OfficialAPCNig, I have followed through your thread keenly and I really do appreciate your effort in creating the time out of your busy schedule to pass down such knowledge.

Please, I'll like to contact you personally(via mail hopefully) especially in view of the above quote as it is related to my geoscience career.

Thanks in anticipation of a favourable response.

OfficialAPCNig:
In my organisation, we don't joke with staff turn over either in our organisation or that of our client.

If our organisation handles HR for your company, we would have investigated that and sue that FMCG if there are reasons to do so.

Again, top level positions give 1 months notice before resigning, once we receive that notice, we will start investigating.

We spend much on training so we won't allow any company to steal our investments.

Anyway, they won't even poach us. That is the truth.

Oga, you are a real joker, honestly. You would investigate and sue the FCMG? In this Nigeria? For what? Abeg, let me laugh very well in my native dialect! So employees do not have free will anymore?

A person worked with a multinational firm for 11 years, and you are saying she should not have taken up a better offer, when she was approached? Is her umbilical cord tied to that company? You think she does not have other career plans, too? Did the employee sign a contract to work with the company for life? You will conduct investigation, my left foot!

If you do not joke with staff turnover, then it is best to treat your staff right, with dignity and respect, while providing them with great opportunities, and even greater pay! Ever heard of the Gartner's Great Place to Work International Awards? It measures multinationals on how well they treat their employees, by examining everything from medical care, to work-life balance and pay structure! Top firms do not joke with the ratings, because they know that in order to retain their staff, they need to perform on all the listed indices.

Unfortunately, a lot of Nigerian firms do not care about such things, so they resort to threats, intimidation and downright compulsion to try & retain staff. Unfortunately, it rarely works!

So what.... if you spend money on training? I am sure some other applicants you must have recruited in the past, or skilled hires who had work experience elsewhere, would have received training from their previous employers, too. Someone would have invested money to train them. So why did you accept to recruit them? Didn't you think about the amount spent on their training too?

And yes, our former company secretary gave one month's notice before resigning, and we even did a fine farewell party for her and bought her gifts, as well! With the blessings of the board!

badinfluence:
Nigeria and serenre.. So many people have been employed by top organizations without all these plenty 'rules'.. Op is talking as if he has monopoly of recruitment..

Thank you, o jare! HR practitioners who work inside top multinationals, do not even make noise like he does. I think because he has done small recruitment for Shell, he is feeling cool with himself.

OfficialAPCNig:
In my company, we expect cover letters for top level management position to be signed.

Well, in my company we do not.

Which position did the multi-national offered you?

Why do you want to know? I was recruited as an experienced hire. I will not divulge more than that.

If you practice HR in Nigeria, you would see always see how arrogant some Nigerians are.

There are good, bad and ugly people, with a wide range of different attitudes. So do not generalise. Most thorough bred professionals I have met & worked with, are not arrogant. They have a name to protect, and a reputation to uphold, so they will give their best anywhere they work. In fact, you feel flattered when you are head hunted, because it means someone has either recommended you based on your performance, or noticed you based on your output. And if that offer comes from outside your industry, all the better!

I wasn't talking about the employee, but the recruiting agency.

Again, you have no business suing another recruitment agency. The employee still has free will or freedom of choice, to decide on his career trajectory. If he is unhappy with his present employers, you cannot force him to stay put with them. Companies who treat their workers right, and give them room to grow or thrive, will not find it difficult to retain them. In fact, the worker will shun any overtures made to him by other firms, if he has a good deal with his current employer. But if he does not, he will look elsewhere. It is not a crime to do so.

There are procedures for filling C-level positions and you must adher to them.

Again it is very expensive to fill C-level positions through that head-hunting.

I am speaking from experience.

In my organisation, my level never reach to lead recruitment for C-level positions, the highest I have gotten was a panel member.

I lead for Mid-level positions, including training and appraisals.

I am ways above entry position, I supervise my team that does that, but sometimes I join the panel. But most of the times, I leave before the end of the entire interview.

My job is to do quality assurance and approve the process before forwarding to management.

Yes, C-level positions are expensive to fill. So you cannot rely on just job advertisements to fill such spaces, as many qualified ones would not apply, especially if they do not know the name of the organisation. And if it is a specialised role, it might remain open for months. So most people combine both adverts & head hunting, to fill such positions, if they need good candidates quickly.

The skills, aptitude, expertise, experience etc that candidates at such levels possess, do not come cheap. They have a track record of performance, that can easily be verified. It has taken them several years to build. And their present organisation or employers, would have also provided them with some perks/benefits, that do not come cheap. Some of those levels come with official deluxe accommodation, cars, annual holidays abroad, club memberships etc. So how can it be easy or cheap to fill such slots? "Those who pay peanuts, get monkeys". Have you heard the adage before?

EdoBoy90:
OfficialAPCNig And LaudableXX, please reply my email messages I sent to both of you.

Thanks

Guy I am sorry, but unfortunately I do not have access to that e-mail box I used to register with NL. So I may not be able to see your e-mail. If you ask your questions here on this thread, then maybe I can assist with some answers, to the best of my humble knowledge.

Thank you. I appreciate.

Heavance:
Can I buy you a beer?
Because you just nailed it all

You too have a long fulfilled life.

He, as well as other commenters, made a suggestion of using full name

LaudableXX:


Oh my dear, may you live long! You just took the words right out of my mouth. These days, anyone can follow the so-called 'rules' just to get noticed by a recruiter, and called up for an interview.

But the real test is in the suitability of the candidates for the job, and how much skill, knowledge, ability and expertise, he is able to bring on board. Some people have the most professional e-mail addresses, the best CVs etc, why? Because they have employed so called experts, to help them rewrite their CVs and create professional e-mail addresses, and also teach them how to answer standard interview questions.

Put them on a job, that requires them to think outside the box, or apply specific skills to resolve an aberrant situation, and then you see their sheer incompetence, shining through!

One of the best candidates I ever employed was a guy who sent me his CV. After reading through his CV, I was fascinated by one of his hobbies. So I called him up for an interview. That was when I noticed his e-mail address. It was excalibur@drx.com. Well, being a true fan of the mythical King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table in Camelot, I was intrigued.

During the interview, I discovered he had skills in other IT areas, not even listed in his CV, that would come in useful on another project we were about to embark upon. Guess what? We employed him, sharp-sharp. He proved to be one of our best hires, ever. He was always quick on the ball, and had a great aptitude for designing creative solutions, and thinking outside the box! On one of the projects he handled for us, we made an additional 35% profit, because the client was impressed with the way he executed it. He was later head-hunted from our firm, by that same client, and we were really sorry to let him go.

My own submission is simple. Give everyone a level playing field. Disenfranchising a potential candidate, by using a criteria that does not add any value whatsoever to his ability to do the job, is highly unfair. Did the recruiter put it in his job advert, that submissions should be only made using e-mail addresses that contain the candidate's full name?

LaudableXX:

Oga, you are a real joker, honestly. You would investigate and sue the FCMG? In this Nigeria? For what? Abeg, let me laugh very well in my native dialect! So employees do not have free will anymore?

A person worked with a multinational firm for 11 years, and you are saying she should not have taken up a better offer, when she was approached? Is her umbilical cord tied to that company? You think she does not have other career plans, too? Did the employee sign a contract to work with the company for life? You will conduct investigation, my left foot!

If you do not joke with staff turnover, then it is best to treat your staff right, with dignity and respect, while providing them with great opportunities, and even greater pay! Ever heard of the Gartner's Great Place to Work International Awards? It measures multinationals on how well they treat their employees, by examining everything from medical care, to work-life balance and pay structure! Top firms do not joke with the ratings, because they know that in order to retain their staff, they need to perform on all the listed indices.

Unfortunately, a lot of Nigerian firms do not care about such things, so they resort to threats, intimidation and downright compulsion to try & retain staff. Unfortunately, it rarely works!

So what.... if you spend money on training? I am sure some other applicants you must have recruited in the past, or skilled hires who had work experience elsewhere, would have received training from their previous employers, too. Someone would have invested money to train them. So why did you accept to recruit them? Didn't you think about the amount spent on their training too?

And yes, our former company secretary gave one month's notice before resigning, and we even did a fine farewell party for her and bought her gifts, as well! With the blessings of the board!

I am by Nigerian Law chartered to practice HR and my organisation is not just a top of the counter agency.

If not because of the history of this moniker I would have mentioned the name of the organisation. We have recruited virtually for most of the MNCs including banks and currently we are running training programmes for many of them now.

Do you know we spend about $25K training certain positions and you think you would wake up and poach any of them?

I am not going to share our procedures, they are strictly classified.

Believe me, your organisation will never come near our clients.

Sleyanya1:


Greetings to you Sir @ OfficialAPCNig, I have followed through your thread keenly and I really do appreciate your effort in creating the time out of your busy schedule to pass down such knowledge.

Please, I'll like to contact you personally(via mail hopefully) especially in view of the above quote as it is related to my geoscience career.

Thanks in anticipation of a favourable response.

I saw your mail.

Associating this moniker to my person or organisation is a risk I will never take.

We just concluded the discussion with the company and that task have never been assigned to any team, but since my team have rich experience recruiting for that company, I am hopeful we would get assigned.

When it happened, I will create a thread and mention you. Respond and drop the full name on your CV. Then I will give you the keywords you will use on your CV and I will personally receive them.

LaudableXX is also a recruiter, contact him also. But they prefer poaching to building from scratch. Lol

Just remind me pls.

OfficialAPCNig:

I saw your mail.

Associating this moniker to my person or organisation is a risk I will never take.

We just concluded the discussion with the company and that task have never been assigned to any team, but since my team have rich experience recruiting for that company, I am hopeful we would get assigned.

When it happened, I will create a thread and mention you. Respond and drop the full name on your CV. Then I will give you the keywords you will use on your CV and I will personally receive them.

LaudableXX is also a recruiter, contact him also. But they prefer poaching to building from scratch. Lol

Just remind me pls.

I added you with 2points, kindly check above.

LaudableXX:


Thank you, o jare! HR practitioners who work inside top multinationals, do not even make noise like he does. I think because he has done small recruitment for Shell, he is feeling cool with himself.

I wish I know you personally, seriously you won't say that.

I joined my organisation at the age of 23 as Support Analyst. At that age I was already an Associate of CIPM and within 6 years I became a Lead Recruiter. I just married last year.

My portfolio would throw you off balance. Learn to choose your words carefully. Bash me in politics section, no qualms.

But have you ever asked yourself why in-house HRs are not allowed to conduct certain recruitments or training?

OlujobaSamuel:

I added you with 2points, kindly check above.

I have seen your mail. But I was asked to contact you and doing that would give out my personal details. I don't want that please.

OfficialAPCNig:

I have seen your mail. But I was asked to contact you and doing that would give out my personal details. I don't want that please.

not a mail, will mention you in the post I'm referring to.
modified
I've mentioned you now so you can see the post. Thanks

majekdom2:
how did you get your UN job? You have zero attention to detail. He said he will not allow figures for email as this lekan18 but will allow for lekanidris18. Go back and read

God bless you.

Lekan18@gmail.com is different from Lekanidris18@gmail.com.

Many HR software would filter out the first.