true2god:
It is never a crime to be an atheist in the Christian world. Atheism, though I don't subscribe to it, is not a physical or social threat to any society. God has given everyone a divine right to 'freedom of conscious and belief'.

!

HYPOCRITE!!!!

Atheists DENIED Jesus Christ


Maybe you could be of help to this former pastor who is currently facing persecution by Christians.

RE : As-salaam 'alaykum WarahmatuLLAHI Wabarakatuhu,

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Please, kindly let us see to this challenge by sending our donations to this account details,

Account number :0073333743 Qasim Aminat T

Bank : Union Bank...

In Shaa Allah, this fundraiser stops on Monday 17th of September, 2018.

And if anyone will offer a house in Osogbo, Osun State preferably close to where PRISTINE ISLAM is being taught...

Contact these people for any enquiry and to talk to the Former Pastor involved...

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JazakumLlahu Khayr...

We have gotten 10,500 naira as at today, Sunday, September 16, 2018

Empiree:
HYPOCRITE!!!!

Atheists DENIED Jesus Christ


Maybe you could be of help to this former pastor who is currently facing persecution by Christians.

Gullible Muslims; easy to scam. Igbo hustlers scamming you guys big time; when will you learn?

You are shifting goal post bro. You lied that former Pope Benedict had become a Muslim I bursted your lies and you pretended you never saw my response.

You also claimed that many Christians are turning atheist and I gave you the Saudi example you pretended you never saw it. Please help me respond to your Muslim brothers turning atheist and are being called terrorist for that. In Islam atheism = terrorism, can you see Islamic mind?

Did Uthman ibn Affan burn the Quran or not? Did Mohammed compile the Quran by himself before his death, as a single book as being used today? I know you won't respond.

OK, I have also become a muslim, please open my own bank account as well. I wanna start getting credit alert ASAP; man must wack.

true2god:
Gullible Muslims; easy to scam. Igbo hustlers scamming you guys big time; when will you learn?

You are shifting goal post bro. You lied that former Pope Benedict had become a Muslim I bursted your lies and you pretended you never saw my response.

You also claimed that many Christians are turning atheist and I gave you the Saudi example you pretended you never saw it. Please help me respond to your Muslim brothers turning atheist and are being called terrorist for that. In Islam atheism = terrorism, can you see Islamic mind?

Did Uthman ibn Affan burn the Quran or not? Did Mohammed compile the Quran by himself before his death, as a single book as being used today? I know you won't respond.

OK, I have also become a muslim, please open my own bank account as well. I wanna start getting credit alert ASAP; man must wack.

rubbish

Empiree:
rubbish

Do you still believe that Pope Benedict XVI has 'reverted' to Islam? Will you condemn your mosques and madrasas for spreading lies?

true2god:
Do you still believe that Pope Benedict XVI has 'reverted' to Islam? Will you condemn your mosques and madrasas for spreading lies?

This is the video that surfaced online weeks ago. I didn't tell you I was definitive. No one has been able to confirm authenticity of the pope look-alike old man at haj.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoqFp2ZAF7k

It was said he was invited by Saudi authority to perform this year's Hajj. If this is pope Benedict 16, do you actually expect mainstream Christian terrorists media to propagate it?. If they did, that's the beginning of the end of the largest Christian sect, Catholic

I personally don't think he's.

Empiree:
This is the video that surfaced online weeks ago. I didn't tell you I was definitive. No one has been able to confirm authenticity of the pope look-alike old man at haj.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoqFp2ZAF7k

It was said he was invited by Saudi authority to perform this year's Hajj. If this is pope Benedict 16, do you actually expect mainstream Christian terrorists media to propagate it?. If they did, that's the beginning of the end of the largest Christian sect, Catholic

I personally don't think he's.

You don't win an argument by peddling rumours and unsubstantiated news. You win an argument by presenting a hard fact and not conjectures.

The major reason Pope Benedict XVI was forced to stand down and resign was his conservative and occasional controversial views. He said Islam was spread with sword and that there is nothing Mohammed brought except tears, blood and sorrow.

Even if the Pope becomes a Muslim today it wont change nothing. In the 1960s high profile African-Americans such as Malcolm X, Elijah Mohammed, Mohammed Ali, etc, became Muslims yet less than 2% of African-americans are Muslims today. A high profile convert is only good for Islamic propaganda and nothing more.

As a take away, always verify your source before spreading a false news. You don't use propaganda to win a debate.

true2god:

The major reason Pope Benedict XVI was forced to stand down and resign was his conservative and occasional controversial views. He said Islam was spread with sword and that there is nothing Mohammed brought except tears, blood and sorrow.

He apologized and retracted his statements. It was after that he went to Istanbul to pray salat at the mosque even though his prayer was just exercise because he was not a Muslim. So why did you bring back statements he already regretted?. To score cheap point?.

Even if the Pope becomes a Muslim today it wont change nothing. In the 1960s high profile African-Americans such as Malcolm X, Elijah Mohammed, Mohammed Ali, etc, became Muslims yet less than 2% of African-americans are Muslims today. A high profile convert is only good for Islamic propaganda and nothing more.

true but then, they created awareness. The reason their population of muslims is still low is due to media. It is informational struggle. Yet, every American you see would like to eat Halal food They know halal has to do with Islam. So awareness was created. And most of the African American Christian criminals in US jail usually embrace Islam and come out of prison as pure muslims and abandonrd Pauline Religion called Christianity.

Empiree:
He apologized and retracted his statements. It was after that he went to Istanbul to pray salat at the mosque even though his prayer was just exercise because he was not a Muslim. So why did you bring back statements he already regretted?. To score cheap point?.




true but then, they created awareness. The reason their population of muslims is still low is due to media. It is information struggle. Yet, every American you see would like to eat Halal food They know halal has to do with Islam. So awareness was created. And most of the African American Christian criminals in US jail usually embrace Islam and come out of prison as pure muslims and abandon Pauline Religion called Christianity.

You don't understand the psychology of human behavior. A negative remark made concerning a person/group under a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere is usually the truth statement. The Pope made an honest opinion about Islam and the entire Muslim world went hysterical, looting and burning churches, the trademark of Islam and the prophet. For peace to reign and to calm the nerves of hysterical Muslims, he had to issue an apology. The fact remained he made his opinion about Islam known and was removed from the office as a result. No wonder the current Pope Francis will go any length to kiss the ass of the Muslims; this what the globalists and the Soros-funded organization controlling the world order asked him to do. The current Pope is the worst Pope in the history of the papacy; a leftist to the core doing the bid of the global mafia.

Thank God that you also identified that most African-american Muslims are ex-convicts. Most of them accepted Islam in the prison. What does that tell you? Islam is a very attractive religion for people that have criminal tendencies. Islam allow criminals to view themselves as victims of a wrong system instead of taking responsibility for their negative actions or past. 90% of American Muslims are either convicted armed robbers, thieves, murderer or a gang leader. Islam allow them to exhibit their real personality without any iota of conscious.

Take a look at Mike Tyson, Muslim convert (now plant and sell cannabis), Malcom X (assassinated by his fellow nation of Islam member), Mohammed Ali (went to jail for civil disobedience), etc.

Locally, look at Asari Dokubo, a Muslim convert now a hardened criminal and a jihadist.

Thank you for noticing this trend.

true2god:
You don't understand the psychology of human behavior. A negative remark made concerning a person/group under a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere is usually the truth statement. The Pope made an honest opinion about Islam and the entire Muslim world went hysterical, looting and burning churches, the trademark of Islam and the prophet. For peace to reign and to calm the nerves of hysterical Muslims, he had to issue an apology. The fact remained he made his opinion about Islam known and was removed from the office as a result. No wonder the current Pope Francis will go any length to kiss the ass of the Muslims; this what the globalists and the Soros-funded organization controlling the world order asked him to do. The current Pope is the worst Pope in the history of the papacy; a leftist to the core doing the bid of the global mafia.

Thank God that you also identified that most African-american Muslims are ex-convicts. Most of them accepted Islam in the prison. What does that tell you? Islam is a very attractive religion for people that have criminal tendencies. Islam allow criminals to view themselves as victims of a wrong system instead of taking responsibility for their negative actions or past. 90% of American Muslims are either convicted armed robbers, thieves, murderer or a gang leader. Islam allow them to exhibit their real personality without any iota of conscious.

Take a look at Mike Tyson, Muslim convert (now plant and sell cannabis), Malcom X (assassinated by his fellow nation of Islam member), Mohammed Ali (went to jail for civil disobedience), etc.

Locally, look at Asari Dokubo, a Muslim convert now a hardened criminal and a jihadist.

Thank you for noticing this trend.

Wow!!!

Bravo ! Bravo !! Bravo !!!

U deserve a doctorate degree !!!

I like the way u're tutoring this man .

Bravo once again !

true2god:
You don't understand the psychology of human behavior. A negative remark made concerning a person/group under a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere is usually the truth statement. The Pope made an honest opinion about Islam and the entire Muslim world went hysterical, looting and burning churches, the trademark of Islam and the prophet. For peace to reign and to calm the nerves of hysterical Muslims, he had to issue an apology. The fact remained he made his opinion about Islam known and was removed from the office as a result. No wonder the current Pope Francis will go any length to kiss the ass of the Muslims; this what the globalists and the Soros-funded organization controlling the world order asked him to do. The current Pope is the worst Pope in the history of the papacy; a leftist to the core doing the bid of the global mafia.

Pope's remarks was met with reprisal verbal attack by americans. I watched african american guy that time who embrace islam on his live youtube criticism of pope. I have been searching for the video but it seems it is removed. So now, does his remarks carried any weight now in 2018?. Absolutely not.

Thank God that you also identified that most African-american Muslims are ex-convicts. Most of them accepted Islam in the prison. What does that tell you?

Dont get it twisted. They were christian criminals before they went to jail. They were jailed while christians. Most of those average americans are christians including mass shooters, common criminal, adulterers, gamblers, pornstars, alcoholics, robbers,bandits you name it. Whether they are practicing christians or not, bottom line is they are christians and commit crimes and sent to jail. They were reformed in prison by Islam. So yes, most African american christians are convicted criminals until they embrace islam. In most cases they belong to baptist church.

Islam is a very attractive religion for people that have criminal tendencies.

No, they have always been criminals while christian. Stop twisting. Islam reforms them. It is in prison they get attracted to islam and clean up themselves. Malcolm x comes to mind.

Islam allow criminals to view themselves as victims of a wrong system instead of taking responsibility for their negative actions or past. 90% of American Muslims are either convicted armed robbers, thieves, murderer or a gang leader. Islam allow them to exhibit their real personality without any iota of conscious.

Any unbiased mind reading your post knows that you are false. It is common knowledge that they embrace islam after been convicted as christians.

Take a look at Mike Tyson, Muslim convert (now plant and sell cannabis), Malcom X (assassinated by his fellow nation of Islam member), Mohammed Ali (went to jail for civil disobedience), etc.

Propaganda

Locally, look at Asari Dokubo, a Muslim convert now a hardened criminal and a jihadist.

The biggest criminals GWB and Blair. Co-conspirators and unindicted christian terrorists. How about that. Maybe you can say Bush embrace islam too.

Empiree:
Pope's remarks was met with reprisal verbal attack by americans. I watched african american guy that time who embrace islam on his live youtube criticism of pope. I have been searching for the video but it seems it is removed. So now, does his remarks carried any weight now in 2018?. Absolutely not.



Dont get it twisted. They were christian criminals before they went to jail. They were jailed while christians. Most of those average americans are christians including mass shooters, common criminal, adulterers, gamblers, pornstars, alcoholics, robbers,bandits you name it. Whether they are practicing christians or not, bottom line is they are christians and commit crimes and sent to jail. They were reformed in prison by Islam. So yes, most African american christians are convicted criminals until they embrace islam. In most cases they belong to baptist church.



No, they have always been criminals while christian. Stop twisting. Islam reforms them. It is in prison they get attracted to islam and clean up themselves. Malcolm x comes to mind.


Any unbiased mind reading your post knows that you are false. It is common knowledge that they embrace islam after been convicted as christians.



Propaganda



The biggest criminals GWB and Blair. Co-conspirators and unindicted christian terrorists. How about that. Maybe you can say Bush embrace islam too.

You argue like a kid but I believe you are an adult.

Let's look at issue of African-american Muslim converts again. The blacks in the US are made up of about 13% of the population, about 50 million people. The population of blacks in the American prison system is almost 45% of the entire prison population which is a high when you look at the normal demographics of all blacks in the US vis-à-vis their representation in the prison yards. This means that there are enough blacks for Muslims to convert outside the prison system. Why are Muslim missionaries channelling their energies to convert incarcerated African-americans?

1) Most black prisoners are not educated and over 90% didn't even finish high school. Muslim nations/communities are the least educated worldwide. So it is natural for the uneducated elements in the US to embrace Islam.

2) Islam as a religion has a great appeal to anyone who is rebellious. If you want to go against a social order and want to have a religious angle to the struggle, you need Islam to achieve that. It is very easy to fight any govt if you play Muslim card very well. No wonder most popular civil right activist choose Islam.

3) Islam does not reform a man, it only make you have a family of like-minds. Most American Muslim converts retain their criminal elements after leaving the prison system.

4) It is very hard to convince an average educated African-american, who is not in prison, to accept Islam because they have more rational view of an ideology than the illiterate and the uneducated ones. The more educated an Africa-American is, the lower the tendency that he will convert to Islam.

5) Most African-american Muslims were outlaws, even without a prison experience, before accepting Islam. The religion assist them exhibit their full macho-man lifestyle which Christianity might restrict them.

6) Lastly, Christian 'criminal' are potential Muslim converts. Islam offer them the freedom to express themselves better without much control and also assist form a cult-like association with their fellow converts. It is all about the continuation of the brotherhood outside the prison system.

Go and watch the movie OX and you will see how Islamic brotherhood operates in American prisons, especially among the black convicts.

If you look at the life of Muhammad and his sahabas it is not different from the life of African-american muslim black convicts; looting, killing and raping of people who are not in the brotherhood (Qur'an 8:60, 9:29, 8:39, sahih Bukhari 4:52:220).

true2god:
You argue like a kid but I believe you are an adult.

Let's look at issue of African-american Muslim converts again. The blacks in the US are made up of about 13% of the population, about 50 million people. The population of blacks in the American prison system is almost 45% of the entire prison population which is a high when you look at the normal demographics of all blacks in the US vis-à-vis their representation in the prison yards. This means that there are enough blacks for Muslims to convert outside the prison system. Why are Muslim missionaries channelling their energies to convert incarcerated African-americans?

1) Most black prisoners are not educated and over 90% didn't even finish high school. Muslim nations/communities are the least educated worldwide. So it is natural for the uneducated elements in the US to embrace Islam.

2) Islam as a religion has a great appeal to anyone who is rebellious. If you want to go against a social order and want to have a religious angle to the struggle, you need Islam to achieve that. It is very easy to fight any govt if you play Muslim card very well. No wonder most popular civil right activist choose Islam.

3) Islam does not reform a man, it only make you have a family of like-minds. Most American Muslim converts retain their criminal elements after leaving the prison system.

4) It is very hard to convince an average educated African-american, who is not in prison, to accept Islam because they have more rational view of an ideology than the illiterate and the uneducated ones. The more educated an Africa-American is, the lower the tendency that he will convert to Islam.

5) Most African-american Muslims were outlaws, even without a prison experience, before accepting Islam. The religion assist them exhibit their full macho-man lifestyle which Christianity might restrict them.

6) Lastly, Christian 'criminal' are potential Muslim converts. Islam offer them the freedom to express themselves better without much control and also assist form a cult-like association with their fellow converts. It is all about the continuation of the brotherhood outside the prison system.

Go and watch the movie OX and you will see how Islamic brotherhood operates in American prisons, especially among the black convicts.

If you look at the life of Muhammad and his sahabas it is not different from the life of African-american muslim black convicts; looting, killing and raping of people who are not in the brotherhood (Qur'an 8:60, 9:29, 8:39, sahih Bukhari 4:52:220).

You are a liar. Come to US. Average African Americans on the streets are not Muslim. Maybe you can say 1 in every 10 households in America is a Muslim. I agree. But large number of African Americans are Southern Christian baptists. Of course in this day and age, many of them are familiar with Islam due to family relation and exposure to immigrant muslims.

But you copied nonsense on the internet to convince me would not work. Wikipedia tries to protect Christianity by excusing the religion from prison converts. But in reality, many African Americans are Christians and bear Christian and English names. What you posted from Google is fraud

Empiree:
You are a liar. Come to US. Average African Americans on the streets are not Muslim. Maybe you can say 1 in every 10 households in America is a Muslim. I agree. But large number of African Americans are Southern Christian baptists. Of course in this day and age, many of them are familiar with Islam due to family relation and exposure to immigrant muslims.

But you copied nonsense on the internet to convince me would not work. Wikipedia tries to protect Christianity by excusing the religion from prison converts. But in reality, many African Americans are Christians and bear Christian and English names. What you posted from Google is fraud

Bro, if you search through the internet from now till next year you will never see any of what I just wrote on the internet. I am not dull bro; I am more than an average person when it comes to academic and intellectual discipline. I wrote over 99% of what you read, except the internet link I attached which has to do with atheism in Saudi Arabia. If you can search the internet and show me where I copied what I wrote from I will send you a recharge card of 1k ( I know you are far bigger than that).

I seriously can't understand the point you tried to make. I still however maintained that most African-american Muslim converts are either not-yet arrested criminals, prisoners and ex-convicts. You can hardly see a hardworking, well educates, easy-going, focused and success-driven African-american who converted to Islam. I don't say it's impossible, but very very rare.

Islam is not made for a critically and rationally-minded person bro, unless you are born into Islam or grow up in an Islamic society.

Even the African-american ex-convicts, over 80% of them leave Islam within 5-10 years. Thank God they are in the US and not Saudi Arabia.

Samunique:
Wow!!!

Bravo ! Bravo !! Bravo !!!

U deserve a doctorate degree !!!

I like the way u're tutoring this man .

Bravo once again !

He is my boy, I will continue tutoring him till he open his mind and heart to reality.

I appreciate bro.

true2god:
Bro, if you search through the internet from now till next year you will never see any of what I just wrote on the internet. I am not dull bro; I am more than an average person when it comes to academic and intellectual discipline. I wrote over 99% of what you read, except the internet link I attached which has to do with atheism in Saudi Arabia. If you can search the internet and show me where I copied what I wrote from I will send you a recharge card of 1k ( I know you are far bigger than that).

I'm gonna give you benefit of the doubt. I read something similar in Wikipedia while we post back n forth. You might read it as well and then you paraphrased in your own way.

I seriously can't understand the point you tried to make. I still however maintained that most African-american Muslim converts are either not-yet arrested criminals, prisoners and ex-convicts. You can hardly see a hardworking, well educates, easy-going, focused and success-driven African-american who converted to Islam. I don't say it's impossible, but very very rare

First all, you are still not getting it. You are saying most African Americans are muslim converts. That's true. But this is not line of argument. What I'm saying is they are usually non muslims prior to been convicted criminals. They converted in prison which means they weren't muslim before then. What part of that you don't understand?.

Now you said well educated Africa Americans don't convert to Islam?. So Muhammad Ali or Malcolm x, who memorized 4000 words and meanings from the dictionary in prison was not educated?. That side. How about bunch of white muslim converts like cat Stephen, Yusuf Estes (former Christian minister) and many more, are they criminals too?.

You try to say Islam only attracts criminals but you failed to mention Christians who have been jailed.

Majority of those basketball players who are African Americans are Christians like LeBron james, but only when they get in trouble and sent to jail and they convert to Islam, then you realize they are criminals?


But when they are playing and earning you attribute Christianity to them forgetting that they committed crimes while they are Christian. I know the drill. How about CONVICTED CHRISTIAN Michael Vick who was sentenced to 23 months in prison for dog fighting, he invoked Jesus Christ after his released and pledged not do that again in Jesus name...amen. How about CONVICTED CHRISTIAN movie star like Wesley Snipe who was jailed for tax fraud. You are so senseless. And you are yet to address all those white Christians who carried out all mass shootings in the US. Those are muslims too?.

Islam is not made for a critically and rationally-minded person bro, unless you are born into Islam or grow up in an Islamic society

Bigot spotted. Sensible readers know you are a bigot. So Samuel Shrophisire and millions like him are not rationally minded?. You are incredible. Mr. Shrophisire is American from North Carolina. He's muslim convert.

Even the African-american ex-convicts, over 80% of them leave Islam within 5-10 years. Thank God they are in the US and not Saudi Arabia.

You are so ignorant. Many american converts live in Saudi currently, especially those rappers

true2god:
Bro hardworking, well educates, easy-going, focused and success-driven African-american who converted to Islam. I don't say it's impossible, but very very rare.

Islam is not made for a critically and rationally-minded person bro, unless you are born into Islam or grow up in an Islamic society.

Empiree:
I'm gonna give you benefit of the doubt. I read something similar in Wikipedia while we post back n forth. You might read it as well and then you paraphrased in your own way.



First all, you are still not getting it. You are saying most African Americans are muslim converts. That's true. But this is not line of argument. What I'm saying is they are usually non muslims prior to been convicted criminals. They converted in prison which means they weren't muslim before then. What part of that you don't understand?.

Now you said well educated Africa Americans don't convert to Islam?. So Muhammad Ali or Malcolm x, who memorized 4000 words and meanings from the dictionary in prison was not educated?. That side. How about bunch of white muslim converts like cat Stephen, Yusuf Estes (former Christian minister) and many more, are they criminals too?.

You try to say Islam only attracts criminals but you failed to mention Christians who have been jailed.

Majority of those basketball players who are African Americans are Christians like LeBron james, but only when they get in trouble and sent to jail and they convert to Islam, then you realize they are criminals?


But when they are playing and earning you attribute Christianity to them forgetting that they committed crimes while they are Christian. I know the drill. How about CONVICTED CHRISTIAN Michael Vick who was sentenced to 23 months in prison for dog fighting, he invoked Jesus Christ after his released and pledged not do that again in Jesus name...amen. How about CONVICTED CHRISTIAN movie star like Wesley Snipe who was jailed for tax fraud. You are so senseless. And you are yet to address all those white Christians who carried out all mass shootings in the US. Those are muslims too?.



Bigot spotted. Sensible readers know you are a bigot. So Samuel Shrophisire and millions like him are not rationally minded?. You are incredible. Mr. Shrophisire is American from North Carolina. He's muslim convert.



You are so ignorant. Many american converts live in Saudi currently, especially those rappers

I will really appreciate if you can provide the Wikipedia link which I paraphrased to build my argument. To be fair with you, I never say I haven't gotten any material from the internet; over 90% of what I wrote is my personal opinion.

On the black American converts, what I said is that most of them are Christian 'criminals' prior being arrested. Islam in prison only help them to fraternise and create a sense of brotherhood. Watch many American prison life to see how it works. Angry and disgruntled black criminals are easily attracted to Islam. It is part of human behavior; you are attracted to a group/organization that suits your social/human behaviour. Islam give them a spiritual angle to their inate lifestyle.

Lebron James, and many other black stars, can also become Muslim, especially when the system goes against him and he becomes disgruntled. 95% of African-american Muslim converts are disgruntled elements. Mention a single popular black American Muslim convert who is not a disgruntled element to the American govt, especially with respect to race relation?

And don't get me wrong, we have 1000s of African-americans who are Christians and are serving jail terms.

You have to google the internet in search of American converts to Islam, cut the crap bro. The US is almost 500 million in population and you will surely see many converts on the internet. The good news is that they are protected by the 1st Amendment which guaranteed religious freedom. Can a Christian convert remain in Saudi Arabia without being killed or jailed? Is there religious freedom in Saudi Arabia?

Empiree:
Many irrelevant stuff you wrote.

Be bold to point out any irrelevant stuff I write otherwise we'll take it that you're being cowardly and simply running away from issues involved.

Empiree:
I am only replying to specific concernsCovenant is set of rules. Where are they mentioned in your NT?. Pls dont come up with blood of Jesus or he died for you. That one is bogus.

Empiree, I thought you were smarter than that. "COVENANT" is not a set of rules. Or is that an Islamic definition?

Empiree:

Serious allegation you made. Can you show us where Quran mentioned the book of luke?

You are beginning to make me think that you don't examine the comments one made before you reply.
I hope it's just that and not a more serious matter of comprehension.
This is what I stated:
" ... the koran acknowledged the gospels of which the book of Luke is one"
That shouldn't be difficult to understand; should it?
Or are you going to deny that the koran acknowledges the gospel?

Empiree:

Good i like this. It means you and true2god knew the truth all along but you chose to argue otherwise. You and him have accused our prophet(saw) of authoring Quran. See how you easily revealed the truth?. So yes, prophet Muhammad(saw) didnt write Quran. It was revelation by God. But Angel Gabriel(as) reviewed Quran with him twice towards the end of his life. And he also supervised his scribes hard copy in his lifetime.

Show us evidence that:
"Angel Gabriel(as) reviewed Quran with him twice towards the end of his life"and that Mohamed supervised "his scribes hard copy in his lifetime."

Empiree:

Good. Another confirmation of truth. I like the way you spill the bean

Thanks again for saying the truth.

This "confirmation of truth" requires a reflection from you: If people other than Mohamed wrote the koran and hadiths, can we say that they were INSPIRED and so we can trust their work? If so, then Allah had other "MESSENGERS" after Mohamed. He was therefore not the final messenger of Islam.
If, on the other hand, those people were not INSPIRED, then they acted on their own authority. Therefore we cannot trust their work.

So, on which side of these two are you Empiree?

I missed Empiree, where is he?

plainbibletruth:

Empiree, I thought you were smarter than that. "COVENANT" is not a set of rules. Or is that an Islamic definition?

You simply have nothing to show for it. If not you wouldn't be wasting your time. You could simply post what your covenants. It is very simple. Covenant is that you worship One God. That's the first if all in both O & NTs, not 3nity. That's rule number and that's all I'm interested in.

You are beginning to make me think that you don't examine the comments one made before you reply.
I hope it's just that and not a more serious matter of comprehension.
This is what I stated:
" ... the koran acknowledged the gospels of which the book of Luke is one"
That shouldn't be difficult to understand; should it?
Or are you going to deny that the koran acknowledges the gospel?

Don't get worked up bro. The Gospel that Qur'an talks about was the Gospel ACCORDING TO JESUS, not the Gospel according to Mr. Luke. Very simply isn't?. So where is the Gospel according to Jesus?. It should be one Gospel but what you have today are Gospels according to many people

Show us evidence that:
"Angel Gabriel(as) reviewed Quran with him twice towards the end of his life"and that Mohamed supervised "his scribes hard copy in his lifetime."

and if you are shown evidence would you believe?. I'm sure not. Anyways, you may ponder over these.


Ibn Abaas (radi Allahu anhu) said, “The (Angel) Jibreel used to meet the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) every night in Ramadan and study the Qur’an with him.”

[Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim]

Ibn Abass was companion of the prophet, which means he saw, ate, walked and dined with prophet Muhammad. This is the meaning of companion (sahaba).



As the above Hadith informs us, Jibreel used to come to the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) every night in Ramadan, and study the Qur’an with him.


In another narration, Abu Hurayrah (radi Allahu anhu) said that Jibreel used to review the Qur’an with the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) once each year, and in the year in which he died, he reviewed it with him twice. From this it may be understood that it is mustahabb (strongly recommended) to read Qur’an a great deal and to study it during the month of Ramadan.

Abu Hurayrah was also companion.

This "confirmation of truth" requires a reflection from you: If people other than Mohamed wrote the koran and hadiths, can we say that they were INSPIRED and so we can trust their work? If so, then Allah had other "MESSENGERS" after Mohamed. He was therefore not the final messenger of Islam.
If, on the other hand, those people were not INSPIRED, then they acted on their own authority. Therefore we cannot trust their work.

So, on which side of these two are you Emp.iree?

You are trying to be smart, aren't you?. Qur'an was WRITTEN DOWN IN THE LIFETIME OF THE PROPHET, not after him. Which means he supervised it.

true2god:
I will really appreciate if you can provide the Wikipedia link which I paraphrased to build my argument. To be fair with you, I never say I haven't gotten any material from the internet; over 90% of what I wrote is my personal opinion.

forget it. For the fact that you got infos from net was enough evidence.

On the black American converts, what I said is that most of them are Christian 'criminals' prior being arrested. Islam in prison only help them to fraternise and create a sense of brotherhood. Watch many American prison life to see how it works. Angry and disgruntled black criminals are easily attracted to Islam. It is part of human behavior; you are attracted to a group/organization that suits your social/human behaviour. Islam give them a spiritual angle to their inate lifestyle.

You have just said the truth, that they are Christian criminals prior to beeing jailed and Islam reforms them. That's all I need. That's all I have been saying. You didn't need to quote "CRIMINALS". They are indeed CHRISTIAN CRIMINALS at the time of their arrest. Thanks for speaking the truth.

Lebron James, and many other black stars, can also become Muslim, especially when the system goes against him and he becomes disgruntled. 95% of African-american Muslim converts are disgruntled elements. Mention a single popular black American Muslim convert who is not a disgruntled element to the American govt, especially with respect to race relation?

Story story. Yes, they are disgruntled because of unfair and biased pro CHRISTIAN LAWS.

And don't get me wrong, we have 1000s of African-americans who are Christians and are serving jail terms.

now that pressure is up you begin to speak the truth. You are just agreeing with everything I have been saying all along. But you acted like Christians can not be terrorists and criminals. Thanks for speaking the truth. Don't switch mouth again

You have to google the internet in search of American converts to Islam, cut the crap bro. The US is almost 500 million in population and you will surely see many converts on the internet. The good news is that they are protected by the 1st Amendment which guaranteed religious freedom. Can a Christian convert remain in Saudi Arabia without being killed or jailed? Is there religious freedom in Saudi Arabia?

Lie. There are Christians in Saudi. They simply have their community and their population is low. But the reason they are not famous is the same reason Muslims aren't famous in vatican. Plus, 1+1+1=1 according to Christians.

But according to Muslims 1+1+1=3.

So no educational sector would hire Christians to teach pupils mathematics because it is a recipe for disaster. This is the reason Saudi Arabia could not tolerate them to gain ground and teach their children 3nity

true2god:
I missed Empiree, where is he?

he no fit show face

OLUWABIG:


he no fit show face

I don't even know what you have contributed so far beyond hiding behind liars.

Empiree:
forget it. For the fact that you got infos from net was enough evidence.




You have just said the truth, that they are Christian criminals prior to beeing jailed and Islam reforms them. That's all I need. That's all I have been saying. You didn't need to quote "CRIMINALS". They are indeed CHRISTIAN CRIMINALS at the time of their arrest. Thanks for speaking the truth.



Story story. Yes, they are disgruntled because of unfair and biased pro CHRISTIAN LAWS.



now that pressure is up you begin to speak the truth. You are just agreeing with everything I have been saying all along. But you acted like Christians can not be terrorists and criminals. Thanks for speaking the truth. Don't switch mouth again




Lie. There are Christians in Saudi. They simply have their community and their population is low. But the reason they are not famous is the same reason Muslims aren't famous in vatican. Plus, 1+1+1=1 according to Christians.

But according to Muslims 1+1+1=3.

So no educational sector would hire Christians to teach pupils mathematics because it is a recipe for disaster. This is the reason Saudi Arabia could not tolerate them to gain ground and teach their children 3nity

No person who don't use the Internet, either for learning or research works unless you are not educated. You lied that I listed all my points from the Wikipedia and I asked you to produced the URL which you have failed to do. As I said earlier, I will repeat again, stop making a claim you cannot defend.

In any society we will surely have criminal elements and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The only thing the govt will do is to create a correctional system (or prison system) to reform them. Most criminal elements in the US that are imprisoned, or even the mainstream society, find Islam attractive. You can hardly see any decent American that finds Islam attractive. What does this tell you? Islam appeals to criminals and find them as easy recruits to drive Islamic agenda in the US. Over 90% Muslim converts in the US are from the prison system.

The Christian legal system is the fairest worldwide; all men are seen as equal irrespective of race or religious affiliation. No wonder Muslims will rather choose (or go to ) the Christian west over any Islamic country to settle down and make a career and a living. Over 90% of Muslims will rather choose the US or Britain instead of Saudi Arabia or Iran. Why? Muslim countries are not conducive for decent and sane mind.

The Islamic Sharia makes Muslims superior to non-muslims. Christians are second class citizens in Saudi Arabia. No Saudi citizen will retain his citizenship status if he leaves Islam. He will either be jailed or killed. Can you mention the so-called Christian community in Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia cannot tolerate Christianity yet you claimed there is a Christian community in Saudi Arabia? Nawa for you bro! You just buttressed my point, Islam is the most intolerant and violent ideology worldwide. Where is the principle of tolerance after all Quran 2: 256 said 'there is no compulsion in religion? Oh sorry, allahh had changed his mind in Quran 9:29, fight the Christians and the Jews.

Asalama lekum!

true2god:
No person who don't use the Internet, either for learning or research works unless you are not educated. You lied that I listed all my points from the Wikipedia and I asked you to produced the URL which you have failed to do. As I said earlier, I will repeat again, stop making a claim you cannot defend.

In any society we will surely have criminal elements and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The only thing the govt will do is to create a correctional system (or prison system) to reform them. Most criminal elements in the US that are imprisoned, or even the mainstream society, find Islam attractive. You can hardly see any decent American that finds Islam attractive. What does this tell you? Islam appeals to criminals and find them as easy recruits to drive Islamic agenda in the US. Over 90% Muslim converts in the US are from the prison system.

You still dont get it. Maybe you chose to ignore the point. Does finding Islam attractive denotes criminal intent?. No. It reforms them. Also you keep saying islam doesn't appeal to decent Americans, i showed some people both white and black influentials who are muslims. Afterall, if they found islam attractive, it simply means it gives them second chance or a new life. You can try harder by trying to link islam with criminals, it will not work. Fact still remain that they committed crimes and were arrested while christians. And there are also undercover affluent muslims who in New York City,both males and females.

The Christian legal system is the fairest worldwide; all men are seen as equal irrespective of race or religious affiliation.

No my friend. Thats not christian legal system. That's secular laws. Your legal system is in the Old Testament. You are not following Jesus if you fail to apply old Laws.

No wonder Muslims will rather choose (or go to ) the Christian west over any Islamic country to settle down and make a career and a living. Over 90% of Muslims will rather choose the US or Britain instead of Saudi Arabia or Iran. Why? Muslim countries are not conducive for decent and sane mind.

Question is, why did christian destroy and colonize muslim countries?. You did that and destroyed and stole their resources through slave trades. The bible taught you how to steal.

The Islamic Sharia makes Muslims superior to non-muslims. Christians are second class citizens in Saudi Arabia. No Saudi citizen will retain his citizenship status if he leaves Islam. He will either be jailed or killed. Can you mention the so-called Christian community in Saudi Arabia?

Propaganda!!!. And if you want to know about christian community, go find out on your own.

Saudi Arabia cannot tolerate Christianity yet you claimed there is a Christian community in Saudi Arabia? Nawa for you bro! You just buttressed my point, Islam is the most intolerant and violent ideology worldwide. Where is the principle of tolerance after all Quran 2: 256 said 'there is no compulsion in religion? Oh sorry, allahh had changed his mind in Quran 9:29, fight the Christians and the Jews.

!

Vatican comes to mind

Empiree:
You simply have nothing to show for it. If not you wouldn't be wasting your time. You could simply post what your covenants. It is very simple. Covenant is that you worship One God. That's the first if all in both O & NTs, not 3nity. That's rule number and that's all I'm interested in.

Don't get worked up bro. The Gospel that Qur'an talks about was the Gospel ACCORDING TO JESUS, not the Gospel according to Mr. Luke. Very simply isn't?. So where is the Gospel according to Jesus?. It should be one Gospel but what you have today are Gospels according to many people

and if you are shown evidence would you believe?. I'm sure not. Anyways, you may ponder over these.

Ibn Abaas (radi Allahu anhu) said, “The (Angel) Jibreel used to meet the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) every night in Ramadan and study the Qur’an with him.”

[Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim]

Ibn Abass was companion of the prophet, which means he saw, ate, walked and dined with prophet Muhammad. This is the meaning of companion (sahaba).

As the above Hadith informs us, Jibreel used to come to the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) every night in Ramadan, and study the Qur’an with him.
In another narration, Abu Hurayrah (radi Allahu anhu) said that Jibreel used to review the Qur’an with the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) once each year, and in the year in which he died, he reviewed it with him twice. From this it may be understood that it is mustahabb (strongly recommended) to read Qur’an a great deal and to study it during the month of Ramadan.

Abu Hurayrah was also companion.

You are trying to be smart, aren't you?. Qur'an was WRITTEN DOWN IN THE LIFETIME OF THE PROPHET, not after him. Which means he supervised it.

AGAIN, note what I've stated earlier: "Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth"

Islam is full of CONTRADICTIONS. It is therefore easy for Moslems to run to any side and argue that the claim of anyone against Islam is wrong.

Even when it is CLEAR from Islamic literature that a thing is recorded Moslems like you, looking for a way out, then run to "weak " or "strong", and where that will not work the placard of "chain of narrators" is thrown up. How convenient! How very convenient!

So, Islam and Moslems decide which portion of an Islamic document to choose as correct and which one to see as inaccurate. Even then, when a negative is pointed out in the portion they have chosen they resort to other claims to seek a way of "escape".

Mohamed is said to be a "MERCY". Yet from the Koran to the hadiths and biographies it is CLEAR that Mohamed NEVER showed mercy to any person he considered to be opposed to him.


1. The koran
Q.9: 5

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Note that it says when the sacred months have passed. This means they were not under attack. If they were, the Koran would have asked them to defend themselves so there would have been no waiting.
Even if Moslems today claim that it does not apply today, it still showed that the koran AUTHORISED KILLING during Mohamed's time.
Do we need "chain of narrators" here too?

2. Sahih Bukhari - Volume 3, Book 29, Number 72. :
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Messenger entered Mecca in the year of its Conquest wearing an Arabian helmet on his head and when the Prophet took it off, a person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is holding the covering of the Ka`ba (taking refuge in the Ka`ba)." The Prophet said, "Kill him".

3. Sahih Muslim 1:30

"The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

4. Ibn Ishaq (Mohamed's Biography), Bukhari, & others
"When the tribe of . . . Quraiza was ready to accept Sad’s judgment, Allah’s Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah’s Apostle said (to the Ansar) [or Helpers], "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah’s Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."

ALL THESE are from Islam's books. Anyone today who wants us to believe otherwise is trying to OFFEND OUR SENSIBILITIES. And that is wicked and evil!

The Koran was written down as WHAT during the time of Mohamed?
Was it in a SINGLE BOUND VOLUME?
IF SO, what did Uthman do later on about its COMPILATION?

Is there anywhere that it was written in the koran that the gospel referred to is "the Gospel ACCORDING TO JESUS"? Why are you trying to feed people with LIES?
Is there no limit to the extent you guys would go in your PROPAGANDA?
Okay, I get it, there is no integrity in Islam as long as it furthers the course of Islam.
Is that what drives you?

plainbibletruth:

AGAIN, note what I've stated earlier: "Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth"

Islam is full of CONTRADICTIONS. It is therefore easy for Moslems to run to any side and argue that the claim of anyone against Islam is wrong.

Even when it is CLEAR from Islamic literature that a thing is recorded Moslems like you, looking for a way out, then run to "weak " or "strong", and where that will not work the placard of "chain of narrators" is thrown up. How convenient! How very convenient!

Weak or srong, that's classification of fiction from nonfiction literatures. You may try to fault hadith. Thats your issue but you can not fault Quran bcus entire Quran is mutawatir.

So, Islam and Moslems decide which portion of an Islamic document to choose as correct and which one to see as inaccurate. Even then, when a negative is pointed out in the portion they have chosen they resort to other claims to seek a way of "escape".

Well, when it comes to character of our prophet, only Quran, which is ABSOLUTE revelation has already described his character. Anything else outside of that, that may be problematic must be weighed side by side with Quran first and then in its historical context.

Mohamed is said to be a "MERCY". Yet from the Koran to the hadiths and biographies it is CLEAR that Mohamed NEVER showed mercy to any person he considered to be opposed to him.

I am sure that many of your evangelical supporters will even disagree with you on this. You used the world "NEVER" to narrowed down chances that he NEVER showed mercy. This makes you a bigot. James White, a christian apologist would disagree with you.

1. The koran
Q.9: 5

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Note that it says when the sacred months have passed. This means they were not under attack. If they were, the Koran would have asked them to defend themselves so there would have been no waiting.
Even if Moslems today claim that it does not apply today, it still showed that the koran AUTHORISED KILLING during Mohamed's time.
Do we need "chain of narrators" here too?

If i quote violent verse from your bible now you will start screaming "out of context" or "parable". Dont you think you are been dishonest?. So now read from chap. 1 to 6 and that should clear the air, bigot.

2. Sahih Bukhari - Volume 3, Book 29, Number 72. :
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Messenger entered Mecca in the year of its Conquest wearing an Arabian helmet on his head and when the Prophet took it off, a person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is holding the covering of the Ka`ba (taking refuge in the Ka`ba)." The Prophet said, "Kill him".

3. Sahih Muslim 1:30

"The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Very simple. You have similar narration in your bible. Mr. Luke recorded in his Gospel


But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.


There is no parable in that. Simple and short. We can deduce from Luke 19:27 that your Jesus didnt want freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of choice.

Whereas, Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion" Sura Baqara


Common sense should tell you that you are quoting ahadith categorized in military expedition to make cheap point?. Even our modern constitutions have this type of thing. I didnt wanna bother to post about Ibn Khatal knowing that you will still never be satisfied, but i should.

Since you believe in wikipedia, it has this to say about him.


Abdullah ibn Khatal (died 629 C.E.) was a Muslim tax collector who committed treason against the State of Medina by defecting to Mecca and becoming an Apostate. He was killed shortly after the Conquest of Mecca on the orders of Muhammad being one of the 12 inhabitants of Mecca not granted immunity. It is said that he was hanging to the curtains of the Kaaba in Mecca, where he attempted to take refuge but was executed before being able to enter the Ka'aba . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Khatal

4. Ibn Ishaq (Mohamed's Biography), Bukhari, & others
"When the tribe of . . . Quraiza was ready to accept Sad’s judgment, Allah’s Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah’s Apostle said (to the Ansar) [or Helpers], "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah’s Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."

You never get over Banu Qurayza?. Even your seniors James White, David Wood, Nabeel Qureshi, Jay Smith had given up debate on Qurayza battle. I debated this before with ifeann and i am never going back to this. Conclusion is judgement was passed on them and they accepted their crimes and that was it.

The Koran was written down as WHAT during the time of Mohamed?
Was it in a SINGLE BOUND VOLUME?
IF SO[, what did Uthman do later on about its COMPILATION?

Instead of arguing back n forth, all you have to do to prove Quran wrong is BRING ANOTHER QURAN THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM OUR CURRENT ONE. Simple, isnt? We all know the story. You can save our time on endless arguments by doing the needful @bold

Is there anywhere that it was written in the koran that the gospel referred to is "the Gospel ACCORDING TO JESUS"? Why are you trying to feed people with LIES?

You scared?. Common sense should tell you that Jesus was the messenger and prophet. He was the one Gospel was revealed to. Hence, Quran is referring to Gospel according to Jesus. God had no business with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. These aforementioned people who wrote their own Gospels was according to each and every one of them ABOUT JESUS. But Gospel given to Jesus was for Jesus. Therefore, any other gospels different from Gospel according to Jesus, are hearsays or are written ABOUT him.

If history is written about you Mr. plainbibletruth, it means YOU ARE NOT THE AUTHOR. In another word, Jesus was not the author of Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Simple, isnt?

Empiree:

I am sure that many of your evangelical supporters will even disagree with you on this. You used the world "NEVER" to narrowed down chances that he NEVER showed mercy. This makes you a bigot. James White, a christian apologist would disagree with you.


There is no parable in that. Simple and short. We can deduce from Luke 19:27 that your Jesus didnt want freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of choice.

Common sense should tell you that Jesus was the messenger and prophet. He was the one Gospel was revealed to. Hence, Quran is referring to Gospel according to Jesus. God had no business with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. These aforementioned people who wrote their own Gospels was according to each and every one of them ABOUT JESUS. But Gospel given to Jesus was for Jesus. Therefore, any other gospels different from Gospel according to Jesus, are hearsays or are written ABOUT him.

If history is written about you Mr. plainbibletruth, it means YOU ARE NOT THE AUTHOR. In another word, Jesus was not the author of Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Simple, isnt?

1. I wrote: "it is CLEAR that Mohamed NEVER showed mercy to any person he considered to be opposed to him."
You DELIBERATELY picked "NEVER", rephrased it in your words, and now want to present that as what I stated. That is deceitful.

2. To insist that what a writer wrote as a parable is not it, is simply ridiculous.

3. You insist that what the "companions" said and "chain of narrators" is valid in Islam. Now when it comes to the gospels you now argue against the INSPIRED WRITINGS of Jesus' Apostles. What do you call that?

Jesus and Mohamed: Major Differences (1)
Islam has a lot of strategies it employs in order to blur things. But anyone with an objective mind can easily look at issues and see clearly where the truth lies.

Let’s compare few words of Mohamed, Allah and Koran with that of Jesus.
“Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do”, (Luke: 23:34)
“And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you
out,” (Q: 2.191)

“If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew: 5.39)
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;” (Q:8.12)
“For he who insults you (Muhammad) will be cut off” (Q: 108.3).

“Love your enemies and pray those who persecute you” (Matthew: 5.44)
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of
him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost’ (Q: 3.85)
“And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the
messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need)” (Q: 8.41)
“How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our
terror came unto them” (Q: 7.4)

It is clear from the above who stood for peace and who did not. It is clear who expressed MERCY through and through and who did not. Moslem apologists rather than face the issues usually will resort to DEFLECTION. Instead of taking the issues raised they will bring up other extraneous matters in order to muddle up things. However, to the discerning the TRUE PICTURE can be easily seen and the right decisions made.

plainbibletruth:


1. I wrote: "it is CLEAR that Mohamed NEVER showed mercy to any person he considered to be opposed to him."
You DELIBERATELY picked "NEVER", rephrased it in your words, and now want to present that as what I stated. That is deceitful.

SMH

You never heard of or read about prophet Muhammad's last sermon all these years?. You never heard about peaceful Conquest Of Mecca?. Skeptic like you would say prophet muhammad(saw) could easily forgive his enemies because he was weak. How about when he was religiously and politically powerful and in a position of power he could have easily destroy his enemies?. Or when the opportunity presents itself, humans are known for abusing their authority and punishing their enemies brutally.

Here, too, the Prophet demonstrated exemplary behavior. The most well-known example of this is during the peaceful takeover of Mecca by the Muslims. At a time when he could have easily destroyed his worst enemies, Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, showed remarkable restraint. This is even more significant given the culture of vicious tribal rivalry and guilt by association practiced at the time.


Among those the Prophet forgave were Abu Sufyan, a Quraysh leader who was among those who led the opposition to Islam; Ikrimah ibn Abu Jahl, an enemy whose father was one of the Prophet's most vehement opponents; Hind, the wife of Abu Sufyan, who ripped open the corpse of the Prophet's beloved uncle Hamza after the Battle of Uhud and ripped out his heart and liver; Wahshi, the man commissioned by Hind to murder Hamza; Utbah, the son of another of the Prophet's greatest foes, Abu Lahab, who had divorced the Prophet's daughter Ruqayyah under pressure from his father. None of these individuals were harmed or punished for their crimes.

2. To insist that what a writer wrote as a parable is not it, is simply ridiculous.

I still don't understand why you want to impose parable on Luke 19:27 when it is clear as daylight that it is a violent passage?. This is just like the way you insist Quran breeds violence.

Wait ooo, did you just say "the writer". Who was the writer?. Definitely not Jesus. This shows that it was the writer's opinion. The "only way" I will leave you alone on this topic is that you either admit that the writer was not inspired but he wrote that verse and that verse has nothing to do with Jesus or we keep dragging it?.

The implication is that if you reject the passage that it was not inspired, it means your bible is corrupt as we always said. You have two desperate options. Chose one

3. You insist that what the "companions" said and "chain of narrators" is valid in Islam. Now when it comes to the gospels you now argue against the INSPIRED WRITINGS of Jesus' Apostles. What do you call that?

your bible doesn't have impressive chain of narrations and chain of authority.

Who was the writer of Luke 19:27? And does the "chain" of the passage reached Jesus himself?. If it did, could you give evidence where Jesus said it was parable?.

Mohamed’s Capture of Mecca

Mohamed took over Mecca by USE OF force. He was NOT invited by its inhabitants to come and rule over them; neither was he elected through any PEACEFUL means to become their leader. THIS IS THE FACT OF HISTORY.

This is how it came about: As a result of his numerous raids Mohamed took over the properties of those he raided. These raids eventually made him very wealthy. As a result, he was able to amass a large number of followers and weaponry. He therefore felt no reservations in subduing whoever he wanted to either by force of arms or DECEPTIVE DIPLOMACY.

Having attained the level of strength he felt he was comfortable with, he turned his attention on Mecca, a city he ignominiously escaped from several years back. [I have noted previously that Medina which was originally called Yathrib accommodated Mohamed when he left Mecca disgracefully but he ended up taking it over].

A treaty for peace had been made between the Meccans and Mohamed. It was to be a ten-year truce. However, before the expiration of this treaty Mohamed, looking for an opportunity to take over Mecca, came up with a spurious charge that the Meccans violated the terms of the treaty. Consequently, he claimed he now had the right to retaliate and capture Mecca.

Entreaties to Mohamed were rebuffed.

Having what some record say were up to ten thousand (10,000) men at his command, Mohamed marched on Mecca. When told about the massive size of Mohamed’s army [Yes! Mohamed maintained an ARMY] at their doorstep and with the capacity of that number of men to take over the city and annihilate its population if they were to go into physical combat, the Meccans felt the better option was to capitulate.

That is how Mohamed entered the city without resistance.

After taking over Mecca however, Mohamed committed a series of crimes including killing within the precinct of the Kaaba, in direct violation of what the koran said in chapter 2:125. At one instance Mohamed chided his followers for not cutting off a man’s head but they claim they were waiting for an order from him; he expected them to know his positions on things by now and didn’t have to give a direct order verbally or by a sign.

In spite of the surrender, Mohamed killed a number of Meccans who had reverted to their former religion from Islam.

Abu Sofian escaped death only because he was smart enough to embrace Islam and Mohamed. That was why Mohamed let him off the hook. It was not because of any magnanimity or “exemplary behaviour” on the part of Mohamed. He served Mohamed’s purpose when he made this move.

What Empiree failed to say was that this same Abu Sofian had previously approached Mohamed when Mohamed was still in Medina to explain things and sort out the matter BUT MOHAMED SNUBBED HIM – so much for an “exemplary behaviour”! Maybe Empiree should tell us how Abu Sofian became a Moslem.

A man with an army is out for WAR! This should be clear even for a kid. But, maybe Moslem apologists like Empiree will now tell us that Mohamed NEVER had an army; that what he had was a band of “peaceful worshippers”. He may even go on to tell us that they were just a handful when they arrived Mecca but the people “willingly” gave over their city to them.

The conquest of Mecca was peaceful only to the extent that the people felt overwhelmed and took a decision they thought was best for the preservation of their city and people.

Mohamed had in fact given orders for the Moslems to march on Mecca. Can Empiree tell us what a military order to march on a location means? Is it to go on a “friendly” visit? The only credit Empiree gets for this is that he agreed it was a “conquest” and not an acceptance of Mohamed by Meccans.

Attempts at whitewashing history will just not work in today’s information age.

On Luke 19:27

I still don't understand why you want to impose a literal position on Luke 19:27 when it is clear as daylight that it is a parable.
That verse is part (repeat "PART" ) of a narrative.
The narrative started in verse 11 which says: " ... he (Jesus) went on to tell them a PARABLE ..."
If you now want to insist that it is not a parable you're simply trying to force your own meaning on it.
You cannot just take that verse in isolation of all that went before it.

On chain of narrators
On page 9 you said: "And yes, chain of transmission doesn't always guarantee authenticity of a report." So, why are you hung up on that.

The writers of the GOSPELS were FIRST HAND WITNESSES and divinely INSPIRED to do what they did.