Jayloy:
Your logic in that test are not being done by doctors is flawed. Who declares an individual fit, a doctor or other allied medical workers. The purpose of this is to curb quackery and proliferation of many fake health reports that our corrupt system has allowed. An hospital gate man would get you a medical health report so far he has the hospital letter head and impersonate a doctor or a non existing doctor and these many lab people do. So, what NMA is doing is to get a personalised stamp that can be traced to every doctor. This is to make it easy to hold someone that is the doctor responsible for these reports which only them are licensed to issue.

Why not request for a personalized stamp from the lab scientist that administered the test then.
I don't know if you are aware, but there has been a king cold war between Doctors and all other medical practitioners in Nigeria.
Almost all major appointments in health are occupied by doctors from ministers to commissioners of health in states to heads of hospitals and even departments.
The most ridiculous of it all was when a doctor was appointed to head agency in charge of midwifery.
The doctors seem to usurp all powers and privileges to themselves while looking down upon other professionals.

ItsMeAboki:


Your position is also flawed and represents the notoriously resented over bearing attitude and bloated egos of medical doctors.

Medical certificates are always issued by recognised authorities (not individuals) - in most cases, govt hospital issued certificates are the ones recognised.

The certifying officer, who is usually a medical doctor (not necessarily the issuing officer) is only an employee of the above mentioned organisation; he therefore has no right to issue such certificate on his own as an individual nor does the NMA have the right to authenticate such certificate (as implied) by substitution of the organisational stamp of authority with the one given to its registered member i.e the medical doctor for his personal use.

You got it wrong, agreed the health institution issues the certificate but it is signed by someone who is a medical doctor, now in addition to your signing you have to include your official stamp containing your name and registration number this further pushes you to avoid signing what you are not sure of.
Nysc actually could be doing this to curb the issue of people who come up with health conditions to make them redeploy. You have to try and stop the fight against doctors, what we all in the health sector fail to understand is that our common enemy is the government who fail to be committed to properly funding healthcare not someone being a doctor.
Hope you are aware some people don't do only laboratory test, how about those that do respiratory test as in case of asthma who should state that they have asthma? How about those that would do ECG and have heart issues who should certify them?? Even your university certificate was signed by Simeon who probably never taught you any topic.

Ayodejioak:
This is called separating men from boys!

NYSC is now nothing but a joke

In my days, $hit was real

Nor b lie

yokiti:

DrP2000, your response to the op was wrongly marked as spam by the anti-spam bot, hence the ban on your account but it has been unmarked and your ban has been undone.
Apologies!

Thank you for the clarification

For the issue at hand
Pls let's not allow professional squabbles and hatred ruin our health sector more. What is happening in Nigeria is nothing to write home about, i practiced in Nigeria for years but since i left Nigeria, i realise its a different ball game altogether. Here Nurses, lab. Scientists etc work with love and passion, they respect doctors and takes order from you at every point in time but in Nigeria the reverse is the case, so who suffers these problem, its PATIENTS. Every doctor here has his or her stamp, you can't make a prescription or document on a patient file without signing and stamping it with your official stamp, even the nurses has stamp too, when you ask a nurse to administer drug, she will ask you to write it down and stamp it, when she carry out your instruction, she will stamp her own below yours showing she has done what you instructed. No one administers a drug without a doctor stamp on the prescription, then if there is any problem, the doctor can be traced and prosecuted. Lets welcome good developments for our own good especially in health sector.

Pls for your information, medical fitness is determined and certified by a doctor,when you need such certificate, you will approach a doctor in a hospital especially GOPD or family medicine dept, he is the one to determine the tests he wants you to do, to check your systems and few of such investigations are CXR for your lung and heart, Genotype, Hb or FBC to check your blood components and level, RBS for sugar level, Serology like HIV,HBV,HCVetc. He will also want the nurse to check your vital signs to know if your hypertensive etc. After or before all the tests, he will examine you physically, starting from head ,eyes to toe, examine your systems too, ask you some questions to ascertain you are mentally stable too,,you cant certify a mad man fit nah. With these results, vital signs and his findings in physical examination, he can then write a medical report certifying you mentally, physically and medically fit. That you went to lab to do tests alone does not make you fit or you did CXR does not make you fit. It is at his discretion as a doctor to request the tests he wants you to do.

In house building, a civil engineer is incharge, that you are a carpenter does not make you an engineer, a labourer that mixes cement does not make you a civil engineer. If the house collapse its the engineer that will be arrested and prosecuted not the carpenter, surveyor, architect etc, they are subordinates.

Same applies in hospital, the doctor treats, he determines the illness you have, he tells you this is what i suspect but i need to do tests to confirm, he send you for test, while waiting for result,,he asks the pharmacy, get these drugs for this patient, Nurse administer these drugs, see how to give the drugs so as not to.make mistake. How does that make them now equal in profession. If anything happens to that patient who will be arrested, its the doctor, nurse will say doctor asked me to give this, pharmacist will say doctor ask me to give this, lab. Scientist will say doctor asked me to do these tests. Everybody will exonerate him.or herself leaving the doctor who owns and manages the patient.

Pls how is this difficult for people to understand,

DrP2000:

Thank you for the clarification

For the issue at hand
Pls let's not allow professional squabbles and hatred ruin our health sector more. What is happening in Nigeria is nothing to write home about, i practiced in Nigeria for years but since i left Nigeria, i realise its a different ball game altogether. Here Nurses, lab. Scientists etc work with love and passion, they respect doctors and takes order from you at every point in time but in Nigeria the reverse is the case, so who suffers these problem, its PATIENTS. Every doctor here has his or her stamp, you can't make a prescription or document on a patient file without signing and stamping it with your official stamp, even the nurses has stamp too, when you ask a nurse to administer drug, she will ask you to write it down and stamp it, when she carry out your instruction, she will stamp her own below yours showing she has done what you instructed. No one administers a drug without a doctor stamp on the prescription, then if there is any problem, the doctor can be traced and prosecuted. Lets welcome good developments for our own good especially in health sector.

Pls for your information, medical fitness is determined and certified by a doctor,when you need such certificate, you will approach a doctor in a hospital especially GOPD or family medicine dept, he is the one to determine the tests he wants you to do, to check your systems and few of such investigations are CXR for your lung and heart, Genotype, Hb or FBC to check your blood components and level, RBS for sugar level, Serology like HIV,HBV,HCVetc. He will also want the nurse to check your vital signs to know if your hypertensive etc. After or before all the tests, he will examine you physically, starting from head ,eyes to toe, examine your systems too, ask you some questions to ascertain you are mentally stable too,,you cant certify a mad man fit nah. With these results, vital signs and his findings in physical examination, he can then write a medical report certifying you mentally, physically and medically fit. That you went to lab to do tests alone does not make you fit or you did CXR does not make you fit. It is at his discretion as a doctor to request the tests he wants you to do.

In house building, a civil engineer is incharge, that you are a carpenter does not make you an engineer, a labourer that mixes cement does not make you a civil engineer. If the house collapse its the engineer that will be arrested and prosecuted not the carpenter, surveyor, architect etc, they are subordinates.

Same applies in hospital, the doctor treats, he determines the illness you have, he tells you this is what i suspect but i need to do tests to confirm, he send you for test, while waiting for result,,he asks the pharmacy, get these drugs for this patient, Nurse administer these drugs, see how to give the drugs so as not to.make mistake. How does that make them now equal in profession. If anything happens to that patient who will be arrested, its the doctor, nurse will say doctor asked me to give this, pharmacist will say doctor ask me to give this, lab. Scientist will say doctor asked me to do these tests. Everybody will exonerate him.or herself leaving the doctor who owns and manages the patient.

Pls how is this difficult for people to understand,

I love and appreciate your submission.

Personally, I dislike these fake medical certificates peddlers and I welcome the NYSC policy.

The main problem now is that this policy ought to have been announced before the commencement of registration for Batch C II.

Announcing this earlier would have given all concerned ample time to prepare and get it done.

Many PCMs have gotten their medical fitness reports before the policy came out.

It's just few days to Camp and they came up with this. They've known this about this menace for a while now.

What happens to those who have paid to get their done from government owned hospitals?

It's even difficult to get in touch with very FEW Doctors that have the stamps and now camp is fast approaching.

This is welcome development but it's coming at the wrong time.

It should be fully implemented with the new Batch as all concerned parties would have made adequate preparations.

Op you are being economical with truth.

What NYSC management referred to are medical certificates of fitness. These are issued by respective hospitals SIGNED by a MEDICAL DOCTOR. No other professional in health sector issues medical certificate.

As for the stamp, it is an NMA initiative that requires all doctors to use official NMA stamp on all official documents they sign.

I don't see the basis for this write-up.

The guy made a point.
Even medical scientists and radiographers are in the process of developing their own stamp to curb fake medical laboratory investigations and quacks.

Many unqualified criminals and charlatans run medical tests that they are not qualified to run and when something goes wrong it is the Scientists that are blamed for 'misdiagnosis'. Scientists also use personalized stamps when signing out results in some advanced countries.

Lab report make up 70% of the fitness test, so the Scientist's stamp is also imperative to curb quackery.

Etizz:
It's just one of the way to make things more difficult for people ...

I swear I hate Nigeria,and the people making things difficult for us.... Imagine a course they do in Ghana for 6 months, Naija own na 9months.. Same course....

Here we take everything to serious without any reasonable benefits...

They only do it with the intention to slow us down

Gr8amechi:

You got it wrong, agreed the health institution issues the certificate but it is signed by someone who is a medical doctor, now in addition to your signing you have to include your official stamp containing your name and registration number this further pushes you to avoid signing what you are not sure of.
Nysc actually could be doing this to curb the issue of people who come up with health conditions to make them redeploy. You have to try and stop the fight against doctors, what we all in the health sector fail to understand is that our common enemy is the government who fail to be committed to properly funding healthcare not someone being a doctor.
Hope you are aware some people don't do only laboratory test, how about those that do respiratory test as in case of asthma who should state that they have asthma? How about those that would do ECG and have heart issues who should certify them?? Even your university certificate was signed by Simeon who probably never taught you any topic.

You are the one not getting the point; NMA is a private organisation (a mere association) for medical doctors, with no authority to authenticate the work of govt organisations such as hospitals - including the medical certificates which they produce.

Nma is free to issue stamps of authentication for the personal use of its members but these cannot and should not substitute for the ones of the organisations in which they are employed.

NMA is not the owner of these hospitals nor the owner of the certificates which the produce; even if signed by one its member as part of his duty as an employee - whose contribution is only a part of the total work that went towards producing the said certificate.

Pls tell me, who should be held liable and responsible in the event of a law suit pertaining to a false or incorrect released medical certificate - the issuing authority i.e. govt hospital, the medical doctor who signed it as part of his job or NMA who is presumably guaranteeing the doctor and by extension the authenticity of the certificate by use of its membership stamp?


NMA is wrong on this one and same goes for anyone failing to see it for what it is - NMA is seemingly encroaching on the responsibility of the MD & DCN which is the official regulatory body for doctors; even it too has no powers to authenticate medical certificate issued by hospitals.

We Nigerians are constantly turning this country into a joke. My sister about to serve told me the new rule and I can't seem to understand whether they mean that any doctor without being attached to hospital can write a letter and then stamp and they accept. This is quackery in the highest order.

zubby4567:


NMA IS PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION NOT REGULATORY AGENCY NYSC GET IT RIGTH



Just like Pharmaceutiacal Society of Nigeria(PSN), Association of Medical Laboratory Scientist of Nigeria (AMLSN)etc, so also NMA.I just read it at the twitter handle of National Youth Service Corps that each Medical certificate /fitness most be accompanied with NMA stamp....."just to curb quackery ....."


My questions to NYSC are as follows

I. Where can I get NMA hospital NOT Federal, State or Any other Primary health care in this country?


II. Is the NMA responsible for the medical check up OR the hospitals?


Iii. Is the stamp from respective hospital managenents not enough ?


Iv. What really NMA members contributes in medical report/fitness



If we really know the answers to above questions I wonder if NYSC is not promoting Quackery rather than trying to Checkmate it because out of morthern 10 different investigations, non of them is been done by NMA member rather other medical professionals



All tests eg HbsAg, Genotype, Urine/stool analysis, Hb, PCV, HCV, TB etc are done and signed by qualified Medical Laboratory Scientists


X-rays and visual test are carried out by Radiographers and Optometrist respectively...

So in these case, What NYSC are they really telling us, is this not promoting quackery by accepting a signed document from the person who is not qualified and liecensed to carried it out?

Similarly, it will be a rediculous if a memeber of particular profession can sign a the document, it means that there will be no authentication, and the members might be deciding to accept or demand something and the aim is totally defeated.


THE WAY FORWARD

1.That Hospital Managements should be and the only way to get medical report/fitness as it comprises the input of different Health professionals


2. If any body most stamp it should be regulatory body Eg Medical laboratory Science Council of Nigeria(MLSCN) Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria (MDCN) etc not professional association who are not affiliate to any government parataltas.





3.If any Professional Association has to Sign, it should be of equal proportion by signing what your respective profession contribute




Finally I hope that the Government, NYSC and Other respective profession involve will figure out a workable solution to avoid any further rediculous way of fighting quackery.


ADAMU

yokiti:
The op failed to address the menace of the "Oluwole" medical certificate merchants.
.
Methinks, the NMA stamp is to authenticate the certificate because the doctors' integrity will be at stake. No one will like to lose his/her license because of that petty issue.
.
As for the fake medical certificates of fitness retailers, you will soon meet your Waterloo.
.
I know those retailers have devised means to operate multiple accounts in order to perpetrate your acts here on the forum but I assure you; you will still meet us there.

What do you mean by Oluwole certificate merchant?

ItsMeAboki:


You are the one not getting the point; NMA is a private organisation (a mere association) for medical doctors, with no authority to authenticate the work of govt organisations such as hospitals - including the medical certificates which they produce.

Nma is free to issue stamps of authentication for the personal use of its members but these cannot and should not substitute for the ones of the organisations in which they are employed.

NMA is not the owner of these hospitals nor the owner of the certificates which the produce; even if signed by one its member as part of his duty as an employee - whose contribution is only a part of the total work that went towards producing the said certificate.

Pls tell me, who should be held liable and responsible in the event of a law suit pertaining to a false or incorrect released medical certificate - the issuing authority i.e. govt hospital, the medical doctor who signed it as part of his job or NMA who is presumably guaranteeing the doctor and by extension the authenticity of the certificate by use of its membership stamp?


NMA is wrong on this one and same goes for anyone failing to see it for what it is - NMA is seemingly encroaching on the responsibility of the MD & DCN which is the official regulatory body for doctors; even it too has no powers to authenticate medical certificate issued by hospitals.

You are making too much sense but being too fast, calm down and breathe down.

Agreed NMA isn't a licensing agency like the MDCN but have you seen the seal that's been talked about??
How about if NMA issued it in conjunction with MDCN?

On the issue of who is held responsible, lawsuits doesn't involve just the hospital management but also involves the issuing Doctor, it's his duty to answer to what he issued,

No one is replacing or trying to take over the relevance of the issuing hospital but ensuring that in addition to the letter head of the hospital, the signature of the doctor should have his seal which has his registration number with which he can be easily traced. Hope you understand.
I agree with you to an extent but there should be a way to make these guys more cautious, it has its pros and it's cons

Gr8amechi:

You are making too much sense but being too fast, calm down and breathe down.

Agreed NMA isn't a licensing agency like the MDCN but have you seen the seal that's been talked about??
How about if NMA issued it in conjunction with MDCN?

On the issue of who is held responsible, lawsuits doesn't involve just the hospital management but also involves the issuing Doctor, it's his duty to answer to what he issued,

No one is replacing or trying to take over the relevance of the issuing hospital but ensuring that in addition to the letter head of the hospital, the signature of the doctor should have his seal which has his registration number with which he can be easily traced. Hope you understand.
I agree with you to an extent but there should be a way to make these guys more cautious, it has its pros and it's cons

I repeat, neither NMA nor MDCN have the legal right to authenticate medical certificates; simply because one cannot validate what he does not produce - how can the private seal of an employee override that of he employer?

Yes, I have seen a sample of the seal, it had already been uploaded here in this thread; it still does not matter whether it is traceable back to the doctor or even to his DNA'; what should only count and authenticate the validity of a certificate is the official stamp of the issuing hospital (nothing more and nothing less) - otherwise every other professional would likewise feel obliged to countersign his work with a seal from his own association or union.

Can you imagine if university lecturers should later insist on co-signing your degree certificate with the stamp from their association - haba!

In case of a lawsuit, the doctor like any other employee is indemnified against prosecution while acting as an agent of his employer; only the hospital is liable; except of course if a prima facie case of gross misconduct or professional negligence can be proven against him.

Like I had earlier said, medical doctors are yet again simply allowing their egos to get ahead of common sense.

Harbioye:


What do you mean by Oluwole certificate merchant?

Hello, I got your pm, please permit me to answer the question here.
.
Oluwole certificate /documents mean : a document that is not genuinely acquired I.e FAKE.
.
Oluwole is an area in Lagos island ( some time ago, it was in the news that the Lagos state government will/has resettled the occupants to a new location.) notorious for PRODUCING FAKE documents ranging form educational certificates to travel visas and passports but the bottom line is that; it is not GENUINE no matter how original it may appear.
.
Do have a glorious service year ahead.

yokiti:

Hello, I got your pm, please permit me to answer the question here.
.
Oluwole certificate /documents mean : a document that is not genuinely acquired I.e FAKE.
.
Oluwole is an area in Lagos island ( some time ago, it was in the news that the Lagos state government will/has resettled the occupants to a new location.) notorious for PRODUCING FAKE documents ranging form educational certificates to travel visas and passports but the bottom line is that; it is not GENUINE no matter how original it may appear.
.
Do have a glorious service year ahead.

Thank you very much.
I really appreciate

ItsMeAboki:


I repeat, neither NMA nor MDCN have the legal right to authenticate medical certificates; simply because one cannot validate what he does not produce - how can the private seal of an employee override that of he employer?

Yes, I have seen a sample of the seal, it had already been uploaded here in this thread; it still does not matter whether it is traceable back to the doctor or even to his DNA'; what should only count and authenticate the validity of a certificate is the official stamp of the issuing hospital (nothing more and nothing less) - otherwise every other professional would likewise feel obliged to countersign his work with a seal from his own association or union.

Can you imagine if university lecturers should later insist on co-signing your degree certificate with the stamp from their association - haba!

In case of a lawsuit, the doctor like any other employee is indemnified against prosecution while acting as an agent of his employer; only the hospital is liable; except of course if a prima facie case of gross misconduct or professional negligence can be proven against him.

Like I had earlier said, medical doctors are yet again simply allowing their egos to get ahead of common sense.

You are so biased try and calm down and read again, I never told you that the stamp overrides the issuing hospital, what the stamp authenticate is that it was signed by a doctor and stop the whole fuse.
Allied health workers can't issue or sign medical certificate for you enough of these inter departmental fight. Any course you did you should be proud of what you do and face your job.
Do each lecturer that taught you sign your certificate?
Who signs your certificate is the head of your institution, the essence of the stamp is to make sure it's signed by a medical doctor who by law has the right to issue a signed health certificate on behalf of the hospital

Gr8amechi:

You are so biased try and calm down and read again, I never told you that the stamp overrides the issuing hospital, what the stamp authenticate is that it was signed by a doctor and stop the whole fuse.
Allied health workers can't issue or sign medical certificate for you enough of these inter departmental fight. Any course you did you should be proud of what you do and face your job.
Do each lecturer that taught you sign your certificate?
Who signs your certificate is the head of your institution, the essence of the stamp is to make sure it's signed by a medical doctor who by law has the right to issue a signed health certificate on behalf of the hospital

You do not personalise official documents of a govt organisation with your own externally sourced personal seal - it is presumptuous and not done anywhere else in the world, except Nigeria by doctors.

[quote author=otunbalahrry post=72181248][/quote]

No. I didn't serve in Akwa Ibom State.