₦airaland Forum

nelsonoba:
Did anybody tell you before that the early Christians were forced to pay their 100% tithes that they were dropping at the feet of the Apostles?? Who ever said they were forced? They did it because they loved God with all their hearts and they saw no big deal giving all they had to God unlike you who because of greed can't even give God ordinary 10%.

Go back again to your Hebrews 7 and see what Apostle Paul said about tithes! Start from verse 1 again, and see where Paul said there had been a change of PRIESTHOOD from that of Levi as was known in the law to that of Christ which is after the order of Melchizedek! He went further to explain using the collection of tithe by Melchizedek, and how when we pay tithes, men receive it here, but it is also received by Christ our new priest up in heaven.

Hebrews 7:7-8 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


JUST IN CASE YOU WANT TO USE GRAMMAR TO DECEIVE YOURSELF AGAIN, LOOK VERY WELL AT THE WORD "RECEIVE" IN VERSE 8. IT IS NOT A PAST TENSE, IT IS A PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE! SO AS PAUL WAS WRITING THAT LETTER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH WERE STILL PAYING TITHES AND CHRIST WHO IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVETH RECEIVES THEM IN HEAVEN!

openmine:
Bro it is what it is....the early believers GAVE FROM THEIR HEART AND MIND due to the love they had for those who are needy
Such was what Paul recommended for the Corinthians..
2 Corinthians 8:1-7


2 Corinthians 9:7


The idea was for Believers give WILLINGLY AND GENEROUSLY as much as 20% or 30% or even 5%....
However,the idea is to give from your heart and mind based on what you have decided and based on what you have and not what you don't have...
Like i have stated,clearly...tithe was a law and a Commandment as contained in the old covenant which was abolished...a better law of giving was ushered in by God(as written in Romans 13:8-10) which is to give with a heart of Love based on what you have as practiced by the believers in Acts 4!




Please can you honestly from the scriptures you outlined state where we are to pay tithes to pastors?
Can you also point where the receiving of a tenth of the plunder by Melchizedek now commands us to pay tithe to a pastor?
Bro i know you can read...i also know you can comprehend!
Please show me where its clearly stated in the scriptures that Paul asked all believers to tithe in Hebrews 7:1-10?





This is by far the worst of manipulations i have seen with tithers
Where was HEAVEN even written or even stated that it was Christ who received it in HEAVEN?
This is the height of deception!

Let me get you some translations of verse 8





The Melchizedek as stated in the bible had NO RECORD of HIS BEGINNING AND END!
It simply means he could have died,however...the scripture bears no record of such...
This doesn't imply that he is or was Christ! That's ridiculous!

The verse 8 states explicitly it was Melchizedek that was mentioned and not Jesus!
It was never stated in verse 8 that Jesus now receives it from HEAVEN!
Ohh God...stop allowing pastors to read bible for you!
This is the same issue martin luther king jr had with the catholic priests who they taught what was never in the bible!
Now you have you own bible and you cant see that verse 8 was referring to Melchizedek and not Jesus?


Lastly,have you accepted that Ananias and his wife was killed because they LIED and not because they kept some money for themselves?

TATIME:
That event has NOTHING to do with tithing, in fact the early Christians learnt a terrible lesson in a bitter way with that arrangement!, they didn't pray for God's guidance before the commencement of that program. Act 4:32-37
Jesus has warned them that as long as Satan is still on the loose, there will always be poor Christians amongst them. Matthew 26:11,Mark 14:7,John 12:8.
They were trying to ERADICATE poverty amongst them. For example, imagine if all Nigerians (both home and abroad) should gather what we all had into one common purse and then share everything equally,do you think there will be a Nigerian that won't have up to 10M in his Bank account? Well that's exactly what the Apostles were trying to do! So that there won't be a Christian who could boast of being "DANGEROUSLY RICH" while many of his Christian brothers and sisters will be "INSANELY POOR".
The event has a tragic end when a Christian couple was killed by God's Angel for trying to deceive the congregation of God! Act 5:1-12

nelsonoba:
Hebrews 7:8

Pls who is the person Apostle Paul talked about when he said here, "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth?
bro i gave you the verse in simplified versions of verse 8 nah
Paul was referring to "MELCHIZEDEK"....he wasn't referring to Jesus Christ!
Go back and check the simplified translations i gave you!

WHO IS THE PERSON PAUL SAID IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVETH? If you cannot answer that question truthfully, then I have no business trying to carry on with this conversation because it is obvious you are arguing not because you want to know the truth but because you want to protect your greed that makes you feel 10% of your money is too much for God.

Those priests get a tenth, but they are only men who live and then die. But MELCHIZEDEK, who got a tenth from Abraham, continues to live, as the Scriptures say.

8 Priests receive a tenth, even though they are only men who live and then die. But Melchizedek, who received a tenth from Abraham, continues living, as the Scripture says.

8 Moreover, in the case of the cohanim, the tenth is received by men who die; while in the case of Malki-Tzedek, it is received by someone who is testified to be still alive.

8 In the case of the priests descended from Levi, they are mortal men who receive a tithe of one-tenth; but the Scriptures record no death of Melchizedek, the one who received Abraham’s tithe.

openmine:
No pun intended but do you have an issue with your sight?
I showed you different translations from the bible to show that scripture was referring to Melchizedek and not CHRIST IN HEAVEN
and yet you ignorantly say i should show you?
Let me show others more translations since you don't want to learn!

Verse 8 (ERV)


Verse 8 (NCV)


Verse 8 (CJB)


Verse 8(VOICE)


Bro My generous giving is freewill and its none of your concern if i give more or less!
One thing is certain, tithe is a law that has been abolished like other laws of Moses!
Scriptures have proven it!
Start studying scriptures for yourself rather than lazily giving up that part for a pastor who may be limited in that aspect!

nelsonoba:
No problem. The law has been abolished. You are now free to commit murder and adultery as well because they are no longer sin from the day the law was abolished by you.

nelsonoba:
No need to argue with you again. The best I can do for you is to pray for your salvation so you can encounter Christ.

Julivas:
Brethren, don't let us dwell on this issue and leave out the most important one. The most important thing is your and my salvation. If we have given our lives to Christ Jesus, then let's leave this issue of tithe to our conviction and don't let us judge.

As learned brethren, I think we can meditate on this scripture
Matthew 23 : 23
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. These ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.

Thanks

nelsonoba:
No problem. The law has been abolished. You are now free to commit murder and adultery as well because they are no longer sin from the day the law was abolished by you.

No need to argue with you again. The best I can do for you is to pray for your salvation so you can encounter Christ.

OkaiCorne:
So how did Joseph know that fornicating with Potiphar's wife is a sin against God?

How did Cain know he sinned against God by killing Abel?

How did they know when they were not under the Law too?

OkaiCorne:
Are you aware Matthew 23 v 23 was referring to the Mosaic Law?


Does the Mosaic Law apply to Christians?

nelsonoba:
When Jesus said "if any man looks lustfully on a woman, he has already committed adultery with her", was that also referring to Mosaic law only?

When Jesus said "it is written thou shall not commit murder, but i say to you that any one who is angry with his brother without a reason has already committed murder", was that also referring to the Mosaic law only?

When Apostle Paul was writing in Hebrews 7:1 - 8, especially where he said "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth", Was that also referring only to the Mosaic Law? At the time Paul wrote, were we still under the Mosaic law? Go and study Hebrews 7 very well.

JESUS SAID "I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW, BUT TO FULFIL IT".

The same Jesus that him and his disciples would sometimes not wash their hands before eating as was part of the ordinaces according to the Mosaic law, and the Pharisees would accost him to demand why they wouldn't wash their hands before eating, and Jesus would tell them that "it is what comes out of a man's heart that defiles him, and not what he eats".

FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, GOD DID NOT ABOLISH HIS LAWS(Just as Jesus said he didn't come to do so). Jesus only took away the ORDINANCES WHICH FORMED TRADITIONS OF MEN THAT WERE AGAINST US, AND THE BIBLE IS CLEAR IN DEFINING WHAT TYPES OF ORDINANCES WITHIN THE LAW THAT WERE ABOLISHED......such as not eating some kind of foods etc. Tithe was never mentioned among them. Not one place in the bible from old to new testament was it mentioned that tithe has now been done away with. THE GIVER OF THE LAW HIMSELF UPHELD TITHE IN MATTHEW 23:23, SO DADDY FREEZE IS A NOBODY TO TELL ME OTHERWISE!

nelsonoba:
Hebrews 7:8

Pls who is the person Apostle Paul talked about when he said here, "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth?
WHO IS THE PERSON PAUL SAID IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVETH? If you cannot answer that question truthfully, then I have no business trying to carry on with this conversation because it is obvious you are arguing not because you want to know the truth but because you want to protect your greed that makes you feel 10% of your money is too much for God.

Julivas:
Brethren, don't let us dwell on this issue and leave out the most important one. The most important thing is your and my salvation. If we have given our lives to Christ Jesus, then let's leave this issue of tithe to our conviction and don't let us judge.

As learned brethren, I think we can meditate on this scripture
Matthew 23 : 23
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. These ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.

Thanks

OkCornel:
Certain fraudsters and charlatans are desperate to smuggle in tithing into Christianity by coining up false terminologies and doctrines such as;

1) Spiritual Levites

2) 100% tithe

3) Jesus is Melchizedek, and received tithe from Abram

4) Tithe is 10% of profit/earnings

nelsonoba:
When Jesus said "if any man looks lustfully on a woman, he has already committed adultery with her", was that also referring to Mosaic law only?

When Jesus said "it is written thou shall not commit murder, but i say to you that any one who is angry with his brother without a reason has already committed murder", was that also referring to the Mosaic law only?

When Apostle Paul was writing in Hebrews 7:1 - 8, especially where he said "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth", Was that also referring only to the Mosaic Law? At the time Paul wrote, were we still under the Mosaic law? Go and study Hebrews 7 very well.

JESUS SAID "I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW, BUT TO FULFIL IT".

The same Jesus that him and his disciples would sometimes not wash their hands before eating as was part of the ordinaces according to the Mosaic law, and the Pharisees would accost him to demand why they wouldn't wash their hands before eating, and Jesus would tell them that "it is what comes out of a man's heart that defiles him, and not what he eats".

FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, GOD DID NOT ABOLISH HIS LAWS(Just as Jesus said he didn't come to do so). Jesus only took away the ORDINANCES WHICH FORMED TRADITIONS OF MEN THAT WERE AGAINST US, AND THE BIBLE IS CLEAR IN DEFINING WHAT TYPES OF ORDINANCES WITHIN THE LAW THAT WERE ABOLISHED......such as not eating some kind of foods etc. Tithe was never mentioned among them. Not one place in the bible from old to new testament was it mentioned that tithe has now been done away with. THE GIVER OF THE LAW HIMSELF UPHELD TITHE IN MATTHEW 23:23, SO DADDY FREEZE IS A NOBODY TO TELL ME OTHERWISE!

CodeTemplar:
I think he that liveth is he thay was alive in the spirit when he/she died.
The verse is talking about the fact that men receive the tithe physically here on earth but it is accounted unto he who pays in his "record" with Jesus.
The problem with the attackers of Christianity is that they are carnally minded and don't want to accept the analogies of the bible. The world is basically spiritual and the complexity and dynamics of the the spirit realm was being relayed to humans through analogy. That's why the bible calls us sheep to describe our followership and and usrs the analogy of a vine to describe our prosperity/dynamics of wealth. The bible is filled with analogies.

openmine:
Romans 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


Galatians 3:19-26

19 Now you’re asking yourselves, “So why did God give us the law?” God commanded His heavenly messengers to deliver it into the hand of a mediator for this reason: to help us rein in our sins until the Offspring, about whom the promise was made in the first place, would come. 20 A mediator represents more than one, but God is only one. 21 “So,” you ask, “does the law contradict God’s promise?” Absolutely not! Never was there written a law that could lead to resurrection and life; if there had been, then surely we could have experienced saving righteousness through keeping the law. But we haven’t. 22 Scripture has subjected the whole world to sin’s power so that the faithful obedience of Jesus the Anointed might extend God’s promises to everyone who has faith. 23 Before faith came on the scene, the law did its best to keep us in line, restraining us until the faith that was to come was fully revealed. 24 So then, the law was like a tutor, assigned to train us and point us to the Anointed, so that we will be acquitted of all wrong and made right by faith. 25 But now that true faith has come, we have no need for a tutor. 26 It is your faith in the Anointed Jesus that makes all of you children of God 


Ephesians 2:11-19
11 So never forget how you used to be. Those of you born as outsiders to Israel were outcasts, branded “the uncircumcised” by those who bore the sign of the covenant in their flesh, a sign made with human hands. 12 You had absolutely no connection to the Anointed; you were strangers, separated from God’s people. You were aliens to the covenant they had with God; you were hopelessly stranded without God in a fractured world. 13 But now, because of Jesus the Anointed and His sacrifice, all of that has changed. God gathered you who were so far away and brought you near to Him by the royal blood of the Anointed, our Liberating King.

14 He is the embodiment of our peace, sent once and for all to take down the great barrier of hatred and hostility that has divided us so that we can be one. 15 He offered His body on the sacrificial altar to bring an end to the law’s ordinances and dictations that separated Jews from the outside nations. His desire was to create in His body one new humanity from the two opposing groups, thus creating peace. 16 Effectively the cross becomes God’s means to kill off the hostility once and for all so that He is able to reconcile them both to God in this one new body.

17 The Great Preacher of peace and love came for you, and His voice found those of you who were near and those who were far away. 18 By Him both have access to the Father in one Spirit. 19 And so you are no longer called outcasts and wanderers but citizens with God’s people, members of God’s holy family, and residents of His household.



Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If a perfect method of reconciling with God—a perfect priesthood—had been found in the sons of Levi (a priesthood that communicated God’s law to the people), then why would the Scripturesspeak of another priest, a priest according to the order of Melchizedek, instead of, say, from the order of Aaron? What would be the need for it? It would reflect a new way of relating to God 12 because when there is a change in the priesthood there must be a corresponding change in the law as well.


Hebrews 7:18-21
18 Because the earlier commandment was weak and did not reconcile us to God effectively, it was set aside— 19 after all, the law could not make anyone or anything perfect. God has now introduced a new and better hope, through which we may draw near to Him, 20 and confirmed it by swearing to it. 21 The Levite order of priests took office without an oath, but this man Jesus became a priest through God’s oath:

The Eternal One has sworn an oath
    and cannot change His mind:
You are a priest forever.

openmine:
Romans 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


Galatians 3:19-26

19 Now you’re asking yourselves, “So why did God give us the law?” God commanded His heavenly messengers to deliver it into the hand of a mediator for this reason: to help us rein in our sins until the Offspring, about whom the promise was made in the first place, would come. 20 A mediator represents more than one, but God is only one. 21 “So,” you ask, “does the law contradict God’s promise?” Absolutely not! Never was there written a law that could lead to resurrection and life; if there had been, then surely we could have experienced saving righteousness through keeping the law. But we haven’t. 22 Scripture has subjected the whole world to sin’s power so that the faithful obedience of Jesus the Anointed might extend God’s promises to everyone who has faith. 23 Before faith came on the scene, the law did its best to keep us in line, restraining us until the faith that was to come was fully revealed. 24 So then, the law was like a tutor, assigned to train us and point us to the Anointed, so that we will be acquitted of all wrong and made right by faith. 25 But now that true faith has come, we have no need for a tutor. 26 It is your faith in the Anointed Jesus that makes all of you children of God 


Ephesians 2:11-19
11 So never forget how you used to be. Those of you born as outsiders to Israel were outcasts, branded “the uncircumcised” by those who bore the sign of the covenant in their flesh, a sign made with human hands. 12 You had absolutely no connection to the Anointed; you were strangers, separated from God’s people. You were aliens to the covenant they had with God; you were hopelessly stranded without God in a fractured world. 13 But now, because of Jesus the Anointed and His sacrifice, all of that has changed. God gathered you who were so far away and brought you near to Him by the royal blood of the Anointed, our Liberating King.

14 He is the embodiment of our peace, sent once and for all to take down the great barrier of hatred and hostility that has divided us so that we can be one. 15 He offered His body on the sacrificial altar to bring an end to the law’s ordinances and dictations that separated Jews from the outside nations. His desire was to create in His body one new humanity from the two opposing groups, thus creating peace. 16 Effectively the cross becomes God’s means to kill off the hostility once and for all so that He is able to reconcile them both to God in this one new body.

17 The Great Preacher of peace and love came for you, and His voice found those of you who were near and those who were far away. 18 By Him both have access to the Father in one Spirit. 19 And so you are no longer called outcasts and wanderers but citizens with God’s people, members of God’s holy family, and residents of His household.



Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If a perfect method of reconciling with God—a perfect priesthood—had been found in the sons of Levi (a priesthood that communicated God’s law to the people), then why would the Scripturesspeak of another priest, a priest according to the order of Melchizedek, instead of, say, from the order of Aaron? What would be the need for it? It would reflect a new way of relating to God 12 because when there is a change in the priesthood there must be a corresponding change in the law as well.


Hebrews 7:18-21
18 Because the earlier commandment was weak and did not reconcile us to God effectively, it was set aside— 19 after all, the law could not make anyone or anything perfect. God has now introduced a new and better hope, through which we may draw near to Him, 20 and confirmed it by swearing to it. 21 The Levite order of priests took office without an oath, but this man Jesus became a priest through God’s oath:

The Eternal One has sworn an oath
    and cannot change His mind:
You are a priest forever.

God Bless you my Brother

kotaru:
Acts 15:1-32, The Law and all its Legalistic ordianances (Like compulsory Tithe) are not for Gentile Christians (or Christians in general), but for the Children of Israel.

CodeTemplar:
You are too ignorant for me to start explaining.

nelsonoba:
Oga, you know both of us concluded our discussion yesterday because you are not interested in truth. You have made up your mind that you won't part with 10% of your money which you feel is too big for God. You are one of the kinds of 'christian' I fear to ever do business with, because a christian who sees 10% as too much to hand over to God that gave him the life he has MAY not think too much to defraud me of my 50% share from a business we do together, especially if he feels he can do it and get away with it somehow. I would rather do business with a total unbeliever who I know i have to watch with both eyes open until the business is concluded than do business with your type of greedy christian......except if i have no other choice at all.

nelsonoba:
I ask you again;

1)DID JESUS ABOLISH THE 10 commandments? If yes, Does that mean it is no longer a sin if i take a gun and kill you?

nelsonoba:
When Jesus said "if any man looks lustfully on a woman, he has already committed adultery with her", was that also referring to Mosaic law only?

When Jesus said "it is written thou shall not commit murder, but i say to you that any one who is angry with his brother without a reason has already committed murder", was that also referring to the Mosaic law only?

nelsonoba:
When Apostle Paul was writing in Hebrews 7:1 - 8, especially where he said "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth", Was that also referring only to the Mosaic Law? At the time Paul wrote, were we still under the Mosaic law? Go and study Hebrews 7 very well.

nelsonoba:
JESUS SAID "I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW, BUT TO FULFIL IT".

nelsonoba:
Oga, you know both of us concluded our discussion yesterday because you are not interested in truth. You have made up your mind that you won't part with 10% of your money which you feel is too big for God. You are one of the kinds of 'christian' I fear to ever do business with, because a christian who sees 10% as too much to hand over to God that gave him the life he has MAY not think too much to defraud me of my 50% share from a business we do together, especially if he feels he can do it and get away with it somehow. I would rather do business with a total unbeliever who I know i have to watch with both eyes open until the business is concluded than do business with your type of greedy christian......except if i have no other choice at all.

OkCornel:
You are contradicting yourself. How did Cain know he committed a sin by killing Abel...even when he was not under the Law?
Was there anything like the 10 commandment in Cain's lifetime?

alBHAGDADI:
If you are saying Melchizedek is not Jesus, please come clean with your statement which would be against the Bible. And do show me who Melchizedek is

nelsonoba:
Bros you have not answered my 2 questions. Stop dodging them. They are straight forward "yes" or "no" questions. When you have answered them, then we can proceed from there. Until then, I go siddon dey look you

nelsonoba:
Because sin was already sin even before the law was given. THE LAW WAS ONLY GIVEN FOR MAN TO UNDERSTAND HOW SINFUL HE IS, SO THAT HE WOULD COME TO UNDERSTAND HIS NEED FOR A SAVIOUR.

nelsonoba:
I ask you again;

1)DID JESUS ABOLISH THE 10 commandments? If yes, Does that mean it is no longer a sin if i take a gun and kill you?