This is the continuation of my efforts to distinguish the difference between a righteous christian and a true Jesus' disciple.

For provided below is a saying of Jesus that absolutely encapsulates what it requires to be a true disciple of His, and hence why the righteous Christians have not yet become His true disciples.

For Jesus said:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26-33 (KJV)

So as you can see it would cost you more to be a true disciple of Jesus than a righteous christian, so the difference can be measured in the extent of sacrifice.

Hard saying

What makes the false disciples leave and the true ones remain.

Who is a disciple of Christ?

What it takes to become a true disciple of Jesus.

This one no be by mouth saying "i'm a Christian, i'm a christian"

The hardest way.

Hard saying

Jesus say so

All the false disciples should hear this

The Words of the Spirit.

From the Master's mouth

The only people I see obeying this injunction are monks and nuns, even you jesusjnr have not forsaken all you have for Jesus.

LordReed:
The only people I see obeying this injunction are monks and nuns, even you jesusjnr have not forsaken all you have for Jesus.

Well you seem to know much more about me than I know myself, Lolreed!

jesusjnr:
Well you seem to know much more about me than I know myself, Lolreed!

Dude you are accessing the internet from your own personal device are you not? Why haven't you forsaken it?

LordReed:


Dude you are accessing the internet from your own personal device are you not? Why haven't you forsaken it?

You really want to do a Nicodemus eh, and try to know about the inside things from the outside right?

Don't come inside first to understand that leaving and forsaking things as such doesn't necessarily mean living it physically or literally, but mentally where it is no longer a factor in your decision making process with respect to one's walk with God.

For instance Peter was still married right? But he had forsaken everything inclusive of his wife, and hence had become a true disciple of Jesus because they were no longer decisive factors in such a walk, for it was all about God.

Now even before the coming of Jesus this was yet a level that God wanted those that walked with Him to come to, and hence despite that Abraham yet had Isaac his most prized earthly possession alive and with him, as God had not allowed him to carry through with the literal or physical sacrifice, Abraham had forsaken all inclusive of Isaac to follow God.

And that why God appreciated his effort to the extent that He did swear to Abraham by His own name, and why Abraham was called a friend of God, because it's about leaving and forsaking everything in one's mind, and one's decision making to extent that they are no longer factorial in one's walk with God.

So that's how I have forsaken everything i had and all i ever knew for the sake of the Kingdom of God, inclusive of the device in my hand, even though I yet have it, because in my decision making process and mentality it is all about God, and none about anything else, such as this device

And as you can see this device is being used to propagate the Gospel of the Kingdom to all and sundry inclusive of your lordship self, so even though it's with me, it's all about God.

jesusjnr:
You really want to do a Nicodemus eh, and try to know about the inside things from the outside right?

Don't come inside first to understand that leaving and forsaking things as such doesn't necessarily mean living it physically or literally, but mentally where it is no longer a factor in your decision making process with respect to one's walk with God.

For instance Peter was still married right? But he had forsaken everything inclusive of his wife, and hence had become a true disciple of Jesus because they were no longer decisive factors in such a walk, for it was all about God.

Now even before the coming of Jesus this was yet a level that God wanted those that walked with Him to come to, and hence despite that Abraham yet had Isaac his most prized earthly possession alive and with him, as God had not allowed him to carry through with the literal or physical sacrifice, Abraham had forsaken all inclusive of Isaac to follow God.

And that why God appreciated his effort to the extent that He did swear to Abraham by His own name, and why Abraham was called a friend of God, because it's about leaving and forsaking everything in one's mind, and one's decision making to extent that they are no longer factorial in one's walk with God.

So that's how I have forsaken everything i had and all i ever knew for the sake of the Kingdom of God, inclusive of the device in my hand, even though I yet have it, because in my decision making process and mentality it is all about God, and none about anything else, such as this device

And as you can see this device is being used to propagate the Gospel of the Kingdom to all and sundry inclusive of your lordship self, so even though it's with me, it's all about God.

Yeah but supposedly Jesus told that rich man go sell everything you have and give to the poor didn't he?

LordReed:


Yeah but supposedly Jesus told that rich man go sell everything you have and give to the poor didn't he?

I said it before, and I would say it again, the saying of Jesus concerning what it required to be his disciple doesn't necessarily mean forsaking everything one has literally and physically, but mentally where it doesn't have power over the decision one makes.

For the problem is not the riches or whatever things as such that one has, but that mentally speaking it is usually allowed by humans to control them and hence the decisions they make as such.

For as you could see from the reaction of the rich man to the instruction of Jesus, that his riches and such possessions had so much control over his mind, that he hadn't left it or wasn't willing to leave it mentally, needless say literally or physically.

And so despite that he loved God to some extent, his love for God was eclipsed by his love for his riches and such things which he had. And that was why it made him to sorrowfully leave Jesus and to disobey His Word.

And that was why Jesus said such things about how hard it was for a rich man to enter in the Kingdom of God which is the same thing as becoming His disciple, for there it is God that determines the decisions that one makes and nothing else.

Therefore it's so hard for rich men both materially and "knowledge-wise" to be able to meet the requirement, which is leave such at least mentally speaking, for to such ones that is usually their "god" in truth as such is usually the author and finisher of their decisions, and not God, as it was in the instance of the rich young man.

And i already gave you the example of Abraham in my previous response, for that is the target of God, even for nothing else but Himself to control the decision that one makes, and not such things that ones has as such.

So i wouldn't have been surprised if Jesus had done the same thing to the rich young man that God had done to Abraham, had the rich young man instead shown that he'd mentally left such things which he had as Abraham had done, and hence called the rich young man back and told him to follow Him immediately because He had already done what was required of him to be able to become His disciple and to enter into the Kingdom of God, even without the rich young man literally or physically leaving such things yet.

That said, you gave the instance of monks, and nuns as the only ones who you believe to keep this saying, so are you telling me such ones also left clothes and sandals and even their bodies to convince you to this extent?

So yes one may have to leave some things literally, physically, socially etc., in the process as I have already done, but the objective is to leave everything mentally speaking such that even the things I have yet with me are not factorial in my decision making process, but only God.

So that even if He tells me this very moment to leave this device with which I'm typing this post literally, it would be one of the easiest instructions I have ever received in this respect, because mentally speaking I have already forsaken it, so it's would only be mere confirmation of what has long taken place in my mind.

jesusjnr:
I said it before, and I would say it again, the saying of Jesus concerning what it required to be his disciple doesn't necessarily mean forsaking everything one has literally and physically, but mentally where it doesn't have power over the decision one makes.

For the problem is not the riches or whatever things as such that one has, but that mentally speaking it is usually allowed by humans to control them and hence the decisions they make as such.

For as you could see from the reaction of the rich man to the instruction of Jesus, that his riches and such possessions had so much control over his mind, that he hadn't left it or wasn't willing to leave it mentally, needless say literally or physically.

And so despite that he loved God to some extent, his love for God was eclipsed by his love for his riches and such things which he had. And that was why it made him to sorrowfully leave Jesus and to disobey His Word.

And that was why Jesus said such things about how hard it was for a rich man to enter in the Kingdom of God which is the same thing as becoming His disciple, for there it is God that determines the decisions that one makes and nothing else.

Therefore it's so hard for rich men both materially and "knowledge-wise" to be able to meet the requirement, which is leave such at least mentally speaking, for to such ones that is usually their "god" in truth as such is usually the author and finisher of their decisions, and not God, as it was in the instance of the rich young man.

And i already gave you the example of Abraham in my previous response, for that is the target of God, even for nothing else but Himself to control the decision that one makes, and not such things that ones has as such.

So i wouldn't have been surprised if Jesus had done the same thing to the rich young man that God had done to Abraham, had the rich young man instead shown that he'd mentally left such things which he had as Abraham had done, and hence called the rich young man back and told him to follow Him immediately because He had already done what was required of him to be able to become His disciple and to enter into the Kingdom of God, even without the rich young man literally or physically leaving such things yet.

That said, you gave the instance of monks, and nuns as the only ones who you believe to keep this saying, so are you telling me such ones also left clothes and sandals and even their bodies to convince you to this extent?

So yes one may have to leave some things literally, physically, socially etc., in the process as I have already done, but the objective is to leave everything mentally speaking such that even the things I have yet with me are not factorial in my decision making process, but only God.

So that even if He tells me this very moment to leave this device with which I'm typing this post literally, it would be one of the easiest instructions I have ever received in this respect, because mentally speaking I have already forsaken it, so it's would only be mere confirmation of what has long taken place in my mind.

This is one of the problems of religion, where almost everything is happening unseen so that even where the expectation is for a physical manifestation, one can easily dismiss it by claiming it is happening "in the spirit". Now, I don't doubt that you are sincere in your beliefs, I once was but it remains a problem because it mostly never gets translated to anything meaningful physically. Or when it does some other possibility may have brought it about but the "spiritual" people will claim it was their piety that caused it.

If today a poor person came to you hungry, I doubt you will sell your device (say in the case where you didn't have money or food to give) and give to the person to feed, you most likely will pray for a miracle blessing towards them. Then when some other kindhearted person manages to give them something, you'll claim that your prayer worked.

LordReed:


This is one of the problems of religion, where almost everything is happening unseen so that even where the expectation is for a physical manifestation, one can easily dismiss it by claiming it is happening "in the spirit". Now, I don't doubt that you are sincere in your beliefs, I once was but it remains a problem because it mostly never gets translated to anything meaningful physically. Or when it does some other possibility may have brought it about but the "spiritual" people will claim it was their piety that caused it.

If today a poor person came to you hungry, I doubt you will sell your device (say in the case where you didn't have money or food to give) and give to the person to feed, you most likely will pray for a miracle blessing towards them. Then when some other kindhearted person manages to give them something, you'll claim that your prayer worked.

LordReed why are you so stiffnecked? This is one the reasons why I don't enjoy my conversations with you, because regardless of how I try to consider to chat with you and make you see reason, you still make it seem as though i'm always wasting my time with you.

Do you really care about the poor? Tell me the truth Lordreed, and since you've been here how many threads have you done to assist the plight of the poor or how many people have you helped on this platform financially or you are just looking for just another excuse to justify your atheistic tendencies?

I am the last person on this platform that you should accuse of such things that you're doing, or do you want me to start publishing my charitable deeds on this platform alone to you as though you have not seen the extent to which I go to help and assist the poor with my efforts here through my threads here and otherwise, and if you want to know why I go to such extent for the poor and the needy, it's God because He's the one I learnt such from.

Though as things stand I don't think i can keep up with this your attitude that makes me feel i'm wasting my time with you, for you are not the only athiest here that I relate with, for I in truth love talking to some of them, but conversations with you are some of my worst moments here I must say.

So i'm sorry but i can't continue this way except i'm able to be convinced that i'm not wasting all my efforts as such, as you can see these things didn't come cheap they cost me everything, so i can't keep giving it to someone that doesn't know the value of it, and would make a waste of it.

So if to you it's atheism till death do you part, then stay there with it, for you're not among those to whom i'm sent here.

jesusjnr:
LordReed why are you so stiffnecked? This is one the reasons why I don't enjoy my conversations with you, because regardless of how I try to consider to chat with you and make you see reason, you still make it seem as though i'm always wasting my time with you.

Do you really care about the poor? Tell me the truth Lordreed, and since you've been here how many threads have you done to assist the plight of the poor or how many people have you helped on this platform financially or you are just looking for just another excuse to justify your atheistic tendencies?

I am the last person on this platform that you should accuse of such things that you're doing, or do you want me to start publishing my charitable deeds on this platform alone to you as though you have not seen the extent to which I go to help and assist the poor with my efforts here through my threads here and otherwise, and if you want to know why I go to such extent for the poor and the needy, it's God because He's the one I learnt such from.

Though as things stand I don't think i can keep up with this your attitude that makes me feel i'm wasting my time with you, for you are not the only athiest here that I relate with, for I in truth love talking to some of them, but conversations with you are some of my worst moments here I must say.

So i'm sorry but i can't continue this way except i'm able to be convinced that i'm not wasting all my efforts as such, as you can see these things didn't come cheap they cost me everything, so i can't keep giving it to someone that doesn't know the value of it, and would make a waste of it.

So if to you it's atheism till death do you part, then stay there with it, for you're not among those to whom i'm sent here.

LMFAO! What effect were you expecting? That I would convert because of your sweet words of wisdom? LoL. If that is what you think will happen let me tell you straight up you are wasting your time. I came out of religion and I doubt any thing I have seen so far can convince me to go back. Very few religionists model the virtues they preach so I'd rather behave as well as I can than labour to fulfill unrealistic ideals. This in general is my point but you seem to think I come to antagonise you.

As for this your particular post, my penultimate post was directed at pointing out a problem with religion and I even stated that I do not doubt your sincerity but instead of taking my points into consideration you feel offended for what I don't know.

LordReed:



LMFAO! What effect were you expecting? That I would convert because of your sweet words of wisdom? LoL. If that is what you think will happen let me tell you straight up you are wasting your time. I came out of religion and I doubt any thing I have seen so far can convince me to go back. Very few religionists model the virtues they preach so I'd rather behave as well as I can than labour to fulfill unrealistic ideals. This in general is my point but you seem to think I come to antagonise you.

As for this your particular post, my penultimate post was directed at pointing out a problem with religion and I even stated that I do not doubt your sincerity but instead of taking my points into consideration you feel offended for what I don't know.

So don't come out now, see me see wahala oh! Na me you dey do?

I wonder what brought you back here in the first place, for it should be obvious to you that i'm not here for pointless arguments and fruitless debates.

Hence this is the last response I would oblige any comments you make here or anywhere else on this platform even if you mention me, except something drastic happens.

So goodbye LordReed!

jesusjnr:
So don't come out now, see me see wahala oh! Na me you dey do?

I wonder what brought you back here in the first place, for it should be obvious to you that i'm not here for pointless arguments and fruitless debates.

Hence this is the last response I would oblige any comments you make here or anywhere else on this platform even if you mention me, except something drastic happens.

So goodbye LordReed!

Public forum so I will respond or not respond as I please. Your response is similarly your business.

Sayonara!

No mercy for the devil's work's right here!

The minimum requirement.

The Kingdom Of God.

Minimum requirement

No be I believe in Jesus

No be by mouth

Shh no noise! It's the Master speaking!

jesusjnr:
Shh no noise! It's the Master speaking!

what do you have to say about Joseph of arimathea Bro.


When the even was come, there came a rich man[/b]of Arimathaea, named Joseph, [b]who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

Matt 27:57


Note: I don't want argue just want to learn more.