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Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Hermes019: 12:18pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
MuttleyLaff:Ihedinobi what do you think,do you agree with him ? |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Hermes019: 12:23pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
BeLookingIDIOT:You are right but in this context we are bringing it down to the actual mechanism that creates the effect,the "cause" is not the stimulus(hell),the cause is the nervous system. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by DeOTR: 4:59pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
TATIME:Not when it runs contrary to the law of God. Would you go to war if the "superior authorities" told you to? You don't even say the national anthem or the pledge. Since when is earthly authority having upper hand in deciding what you do in JW? There are hundreds of denominations going back to the right ways of worshipping on the Sabbath as it should be. The moment the global government pass a law to observe a rest day different from what God directed in his commandments (they're already working towards it with all the noise about global warming) , know it's the end. There's no way you're going to rationalize the breaking of the Sabbath. God never sanctified or blessed any other day for us to spend time with him. Check from Genesis to Revelation, you won't find any verse to support your view. By the way, JW could gain access to me because I'm a Sabbath keeper, otherwise I would be in Church most times they come knocking on my gate on Sundays. 1 Like |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by MuttleyLaff: 5:21pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Hermes019:Hermes019, when one is dead, there is no body, so expectedly, there's no more a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part to convey or transmit the pain message. This is a fact and not an opinion Hermes019 You have an issue with the truth, not what I believe in, what I believe in doesnt matter, it is the truth that matters, and that truth, which doesnt fit the bets you're try to hedge on, which doesnt align with your agenda, is that, pain can be and will be felt, in absence of a body, absence of a nervous system or other bodily mechanism Hermes019:The question you should have asked, is that, is what I wrote in the bible or not. Was the rich man in the parable tormented or not tormented, did the bile say or not that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? Hermes019:Do you know that, Jesus, after resurrection, walked through a wall, or was it door? 1 Like |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by DeOTR: 5:23pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Seandisputed:Whether it's a thousand years before the coming of Christ, it's a fact that judgement comes after death. We die once, and after this (not immediately after this), judgement. It's written all over the Bible that the dead are sleeping, so I wouldn't where we are get this idea of (immortal soul or spirit that survives the body after death) or judgement immediately after death. If all men are judged immediately after death, what then is the essence of the great white throne judgement at the last day? |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Hermes019: 5:32pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
when one is dead, there is no body, so expectedly, there's no more a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part to convey or transmit the pain message. This is a fact and not an opinion Hermes019 Have you any experience of what you are saying ?,you are not the one to determine if it is a fact or not,what makes it a fact is the evidence you bring You have an issue with the truth, not what I believe in, what I believe in doesnt matter, it is the truth that matters, and that truth, which doesnt fit the bets you're try to hedge on, which doesnt align with your agenda, is that, pain can be and will be felt, in absence of a body, absence of a nervous system or other bodily mechanismTruth that is not backed by sufficient evidence is no better than a hunch The question you should have asked, is that, is what I wrote in the bible or not. Was the rich man in the parable tormented or not tormented, did the bile say or not that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?I did not say you were wrong,I only solicited his opinion Do you know that, Jesus, after resurrection, walked through a wall, or was it door?Do you know that Mohammed split the moon ? |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by frank317: 5:35pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Abuventure: Spiritual fire ke So spirits also need spiritual fire to cook spiritual food and burn spiritual bush? Smh @ spiritual fire, how does this one even look... I bet they need spiritual matches to start this. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Nobody: 5:58pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
DeOTR:That's where discernment comes in my friend. Jesus said "give Caesar's things to Ceasar,and God's things to God" Ceasar is the superior authority so whatever they demands as long as it stands clear not colliding with the laws of Jehovah we will obey them. The Sabbath was NEVER instituted from the beginning so Jesus made it clear that it was given for men to make use of it and NOT for the Sabbath to make use of man! Mark 2:27 So since we've understood the purpose of Sabbath *make time for spiritual matters. *make time for rest We're no under compulsion to say it must be so and so day,therefore if the authorities says the day i use for sacred services should be used for work,i'm sure they can't make a law that there shouldn't be REST so i'll make use of such a day for my sacred services to my God. Don't worry yourself about our own Jehovah my friend because we understand HIM and HE also understands our limitations. Psalms 103:13,14 Killing means judging if someone is fit for life or not so we must not JUDGE as in terminate life. National anthem is swearing ones faith to a particular authority whereas our whole soul service should be for our God,so we can't do that because doing so will mean giving all my soul and strength and mind to a particular worldly government in some location. No my friend our obedience to them is relative NOT whole soul,whoever mount that position we will obey since our own government is from heaven! For better understanding of this aspect,imagine a thief ordering you to sit,stand or move. Surely you will continue to obey at gunpoint but when another superior authority with weapons starts giving orders,you will change and start obeying the SUPERIOR. That is the condition we finds ourselves until God's kingdom comes to wipe them all away! Daniel 2:44 |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Seandisputed(m): 7:32pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
DeOTR:Did you read the guy who quoted me before your reply? What is your perspective on his submission. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Ihedinobi3: 8:27pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Hermes019:I think it is obvious that not everyone fears hell. You don't, I assume. Nor do many other atheists on this website, if their own words are anything to judge by. As I said, it is all about free will. We can choose to fear God. Or to not fear Him. Those who do essentially take His Word for the unpleasantness of Hell. Those who don't, don't. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Hermes019: 8:40pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3:I don't believe that hell exists,so I can't be afraid of it But for those who believe like yourself,why would you fear hell if you can not relate with the "pain" it would cause,some even draw parallels with things like normal fire |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Ihedinobi3: 9:18pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Hermes019:Let me clarify that I am willing to both provide answers about the Bible and defend those answers but I would rather not be asked for an opinion on other people's positions on the Bible. Their positions are theirs and mine are mine. As for what the Bible actually says here, Hell is at this time in three compartments: Paradise, Torments and the Abyss. The first is where Abraham and Lazarus are seen to have been in that parable that the Lord Jesus gave and the same place that the Lord promised to be in with the repentant thief on the Cross. This is where all believers who died before the Cross were taken. It was a layover for them because human sin had not yet been paid for. But after the Cross, the Lord Jesus took all those believers to the Third Heaven with Him. So, that part of Hell/Hades/Sheol is empty. It was a very delightful place where they had fellowship with God. Torments is where the rich man was taken. That is where all unbelievers are deposited after death. There are flames, as the parable shows. It is also clearly a place where the rich man regretted his choices (that is what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is all about). It is a place which does call to mind the Lake of Fire but it may not be quite the same. The Abyss is a prison for disobedient angels. Some of them are chained up there. Some are not. But it is a place of supernatural darkness that terrifies rebel angels. Satan will be chained and imprisoned there with a seal set on it to prevent any possibility of escape at the beginning of the Millennium. The Lake of Fire is where all unbelievers and all disobedient angels will be deposited after the Judgment of the Great White Throne. We see that it is fiery. We see also that it is supernaturally dark with a palpable, painful darkness. We see also that it is a place of torment for all those who end up in it. Finally, "Death and Hades will be thrown into it". That means that the Lake will fill the location of Hades consuming all three compartments. Now, these descriptions may indeed call up images in one's head. The Bible does offer graphic enough descriptions of these things to make it possible for us to relate to them in some degree. However, our imaginations of them are necessarily only in terms of what we know in the physical world, so we will necessarily fail to properly appreciate these things as they really are. Neither Hades nor the Third Heaven is a part of this Universe. So we really cannot imagine them. We can try but we will necessarily fall short of the reality of them. As for how literal they are, they are very literal indeed. There is no biblical reason to think that they are not. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Ihedinobi3: 9:31pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Hermes019:That is my point. You are able to not believe because it is not possible to really imagine Hell. We cannot imagine what Hell is really like, but we do have fire in our physical experience, and we also have regret as part of our experience today. It is enough for us to know that Hell would offer fiery pain and emotional pain in the form of regret on a level beyond anything we have experienced in this life. We cannot imagine how any experience in this life can be exceeded by that much but we can believe it or we can choose not to believe it. Finally, I do not fear Hell. If I did, it would be because I don't understand what the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus accomplished for me. Just believing in the Lord Jesus has eliminated any need for me to be concerned about going to Hell. So, my concern right now is just pleasing the Person Who did something so incredibly generous for me, not to try to avoid going to Hell. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by DeOTR: 11:23pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
TATIME:This is your own personal opinion, not that of God or what the Bible says. You said the Sabbath was not instituted from the beginning, so which day exactly did God set apart for rest after creation? I suppose you know the answer. Sabbath is made for man, yes, but Jesus was not telling you to break it at will. If you read that part in context, you'll understand why he said that. Why would you refuse to save a life on Sabbath just because you're keeping it? Doing things that can not wait till the next day is not breaking the Sabbath (of course, going shopping and the sort is not of them). The Sabbath law is a part of the ten commandments, except you're ready to clean out the fourth commandment (unfortunately, they're all written on stone), you're committing a sin by breaking it. You're not serving another God, you don't kill, you don't steal, yet trying to wish away a part of the same law not comfortable for you? Sorry, it's not possible. It's OK if earthly authorities are the ones you rely upon to decide your day off. As for me and my family, Sabbath is it. Peace. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by DeOTR: 11:38pm On Feb 18, 2019 |
Seandisputed:It's just his personal opinion. There's no judgement taking place anywhere at the moment. The dead (righteous or not) are sleeping. The great white throne judgement is the only judgement I know that will take place. God is a God of justice. The last day judgement is meant to expose the evil deeds of the damned, and it won't be shrouded in secrecy, which he is suggesting. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by DeOTR: 12:09am On Feb 19, 2019 |
@MuttleyLaff, sorry for misquoting you. As for the texts in Genesis 6, I think it's plain as it comes. No hidden meaning. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Seandisputed(m): 12:59am On Feb 19, 2019 |
DeOTR: I think i agree with your's more. |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Nobody: 5:42am On Feb 19, 2019 |
DeOTR:It's OK Sir keep your Sabbath,as for close to 9,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses globally our Sabbath is anytime convenient for sacred services! So you and other Sabbath keepers can also take your Sabbath keeping gospel to people since Jesus instruct His followers to go and teach their neighbours ALL THAT HE COMMANDED THEM! Matthew 28:20 |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by Abuventure: 1:36pm On Feb 20, 2019 |
frank317:hahaha!!! don't miss your talent you are a very good comedian |
Re: Why Would Hell Fire Hurt A Spirit by MuttleyLaff: 9:29pm On Feb 21, 2019 |
Hermes019:Everything I share with you is from the evidence of the bible. It is in that same bible, that a dead rich man, without any body, without a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part to convey or transmit pain messages begged for water because it was tormented, this is the fact that one can then feel pain without necessarily havng a human body, without a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part to convey or transmit the pain messages Hermes019:I didnt make up what I wrote, I became aware of them from reading the bible. Hermes019:So you agree, accept and know that the rich man in the parable was tormented and that the bible says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, right? Why solicit Ihedinobi3 opinion, if you knew what I typed, wasnt wrong, huh? Hermes019:Dont make me laugh please. Even God Almighty wouldnt think something silly like splitting the moon. Please tell me, to what purpose and end would Mohammed want to split the moon for? You are taking tit for tat, too far, with this your Mohammed malarkey 1 Like |
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