Still quoting the WHITE MAN's book. BLACK MAN THINK !!

SHALOM!

Your Problem is that you took your Beliefs from TRADITIONS OF MEN, instead of THE WORD OF GOD.

You never read it in THE BIBLE that Spirit Beings burn in Hell.

. DANIEL 3:1-30.

NEBUCHADNEZZAR the king
made an image of gold,
whose height was
threescore cubits,
and the breadth
thereof six cubits:
he set it up
in the plain of Dura,
in the Province of Babylon.
2. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king
sent to gather together
the Princes,
the Governors, and the Captains,
the Judges,
the Treasurers,
the Counsellors, the Sheriffs,
and all the rulers of the Provinces,
to come to the dedication of the image
which Nebuchadnezzar the king
had set up.
3. Then the Princes, the Governors,
and Captains, the Judges,
the Treasurers, the Counsellors, the Sheriffs,
and all the rulers of the Provinces,
were gathered together
unto the dedication of the image
that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up;
and they stood before the image
that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
4. Then an herald cried aloud,

"To you it is commanded,
O people, nations, and languages,

5. 'THAT AT WHAT TIME
YE HEAR
THE SOUND OF THE CORONET,
FLUTE, HARP, SACKBUT, PSALTERY,
DULCIMER,
AND ALL KINDS OF MUSICK,
YE FALL DOWN AND WIRSHIP
THE GOLDEN IMAGE THAT NEBUCHADNEZZAR THE KING HATH SET UP:
6. 'AND WHOSO
FALLETH NOT DOWN
AND WORSHIPPETH SHALL THE SAME HOUR BE CAST INTO THE MIDST OF A BURNING FIERY FURNACE.' "

7. Therefore at that time,
when all the people
heard the sound
of the cornet, flute,
harp, sackbut, psaltery,
and all kinds of musick,
all the people, the nations, and the languages,
fell down and worshipped
the golden image
that Nebuchadnezzar the king
had set up.
8. Wherefore at that time
certain Chaldeans came near,
and accused the Jews.
9. They spake and said
to the king Nebuchadnezzar,

"O king, live for ever.
10. "Thou, O king,
hast made a decree,

'THAT EVERY MAN THAT SHALL HEAR THE SOUND OF THE CORONET, FLUTE, HARP, SACKBUT,
PSALTERY AND DULCIMER,
AND ALL KINDS OF MUSICK,
SHALL FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP
THE GOLDEN IMAGE:
11. 'AND WHOSO FALLETH NOT DOWN
AND WORSHIPPETH,
THAT HE SHOULD BE CAST INTO
THE MIDST OF A BURNING FIERY FURNACE.'

12. "There are certain Jews
whom thou hast set over
the affairs of the Province of Babylon,
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego;
these men, O king,
have not regarded thee:
they serve not thy gods,
nor worship the golden image
which thou hast set up."

13. Then Nebuchadnezzar
in his rage and fury commanded
to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
Then they brought these men before the king.
14. Nebuchadnezzar spake
and said unto them,

"Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
do not ye serve my gods,
nor worship the golden image
which I have set up?
15. "Now if ye be ready
that at what time ye hear
the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer,
and all kinds of musick,
ye fall down and worship the image
which I have made; well:
but if ye worship not,
ye shall be cast the same hour
into the midst of a burning fiery furnace;
and Who is that God
That shall deliver you out of my hands?"

16. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
answered and said to the king,

"O Nebuchadnezzar,
we are not careful to answer thee
in this matter.
17. "If it be so,
our God Whom we serve is able
to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace,
and He will deliver us out of thine hand,
O king.
18. "But if not,
be it known unto thee, O king,
that we will not serve thy gods,
nor worship the golden image
which thou hast set up."

19. Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury,
and the form of his visage was changed
against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: therefore he spake,
and commanded that they should
heat the furnace one seven times more
than it was wont to be heated.
20. And he commanded the most mighty men
that were in his army to bind
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
21. Then these men were bound in their coats,
their hosen, and their hats,
and their other garments,
and were cast into the midst
of the burning fiery furnace.
22. Therefore because
the king's commandment was urgent,
and the furnace exceeding hot,
the flame of the fire
slew those men that took up
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
23. And these three men,
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
fell down bound into the midst
of the burning fiery furnace.
24. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king
was astonied, and rose up in haste,
and spake, and said unto his counsellors,

"Did not we cast three men bound
into the midst of the fire?"

They answered and said unto the king,

"True, O king."

25. He answered and said,

"Lo, I see four men loose,
walking in the midst of the fire,
and they have no hurt;
and the form of the fourth
is like The Son of God."

26. Then Nebuchadnezzar came near
to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace,
and spake,
and said,

"Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
ye Servants of The Most High God,
come forth,
and come hither."

Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
came forth of the midst of the fire.
27. And the princes, governors, and captains,
and the king's Counsellors,
being gathered together, saw these men,
upon whose bodies the fire had no power,
nor was an hair of their head singed,
neither were their coats changed,
nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
28. Then Nebuchadnezzar spake,
and said,

"Blessed be the God of Shadrach,
Meshach, and Abednego,
Who hath sent His Angel,
and delivered His Servants
that trusted in Him,
and have changed the king's word,
and yielded their bodies,
that they might not
serve nor worship any god,
except their own God.
29. "Therefore I make a decree,

'THAT EVERY PEOPLE,
NATION, AND LANGUAGE,
WHICH SPEAK ANY THING AMISS
AGAINST THE GOD OF SHADRACH,
MESHACH, AND ABEDBEGO,
SHALL BE CUT IN PIECES,
AND THEIR HOUSES
SHALL BE MADE A DUNGHILL:
BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
THAT CAN DELIVER AFTER THIS SORT.' "

30. Then the king promoted
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
in the Province of Babylon.

THIS IS A CASE OF SPIRITUAL HUMANS EXPOSED TO FIRE- THAT EVEN KILLED THOSE WHO THREW THEM INTO IT.

The Fire could not even harm their CLOTHES.

Such a thing happened in modern times. A Sailor named KEN CANTRELL serving on the Aircraft Carrier, THE LAKE CHAMPLAIN, in 1953, was in a Catapult-Room explosion of fuel stored there.

About a dozen crewmen were killed immediately, when burning AVIATION FUEL engulfed them all.

KEN CANTRELL was on a 21-day Fast when this happened.

He was not harmed, and reported that he could not even FEEL the flames that killed his comrades.

He spent 30 minutes in the blaze, not knowing what to do.

Then a Voice told him not to be afraid, but leave. To do so, he had to pick up a red-hot tool (a Dog-Wrench,) and open the red-hot door, with his bare hands.

He was not harmed, and was able to walk out, the sole survivor.

Whereas, even the POPE acknowledged the Miracle at the time, and KEN CANTRELL testified of it publicly for DECADES afterward- having become ordained- THE US NAVY TODAY DENIES THAT THIS EVENT EVER TOOK PLACE.

Before the Internet, I was familiar with the Church that taught him Fasting.

The point is, that FIRE IS NOT HARMFUL to a Spirit Being.

Fire is, however, a CONDUIT and CONTAINMENT for Spiritual Powers and Entities.

It can act as a PRISON, a DOORWAY, or a WINDOW.

If a Fire were treated somehow, to DETAIN Spirit Beings, but still allow them to SEE OUT- that would be TORMENT.

That would be the Torment of HELL.

TATIME:
This is why all those religious groups failed to meet up with the high regard all of them are having for Jehovah's Witnesses!
There were 600 laws in total, God wrote TEN on stone tablets so that Israelites could SEE and believe that truly it is that same God{who brought them out of Egypt} that gave Moses all those laws to pass onto them.
The LAW COVENANT of God was between HIM and the nation of Israel{ONLY},Moses is the MEDIATOR of this covenant.
So when Jesus instituted Christianity the laws were not to continue because another COVENANT was established and Jesus is the MEDIATOR.
That's why the Christians kept asking Jesus questions because Jesus refused to keep the Sabbath law claiming He is the "Lord of Sabbath"! Mark 2:28
Later Christians living in Galatia were trying to keep part of those laws so Paul made it clear to them that {they were baptised as Christians NOT on the bases of the laws but on the bases of faith in Christ Jesus}. Galatians 3:1-5
Paul later concluded that those laws served as a guardian leading the Jews to faith in Jesus but since faith has arrived Christians are NO LONGER UNDER A GUARDIAN! Galatians 3:23-28
Now take note that when Jesus met Paul and appointed him as an Apostle,Jesus said Paul will serve as the Apostle of the nations{none Israelites including you and i} Act 9:15 compared to Romans 1:5
So Christians have NO business with any of those laws given to the Israelites my friend,whenever Christians are talking about God's commandment they are referring to Jesus' THOUGHTS,WORDS and ACTIONS which is vital for our salvation NOT any part of the old covenant laws! Hebrew 9:15 Whoever can master these three things automatically qualifies for everlasting life. John 3:16-18 compared to 1Corinthians 2:16
All these you can NEVER find any religious group that can get the understanding of the scriptures to the level of Jehovah's Witnesses because "we're associating based on the promises of the new covenant group" and nobody is given the spirit of understanding apart from these group! Zechariah 8:23
Even Daniel{one of God's prophet of old} asked God for the understanding of these sacred secrets regarding this end time but God told Daniel "go and rest till you're resurrected to come and have your own portion,because some will be given the understanding and some will NEVER understand" Daniel 12:8-10
So what will cause those ones NEVER to understand? It's simply because they'll refuse to learn from the CHOSEN ones whom Jesus is using in this end time!

You're not getting it, are you? The 10 commandments is not a part of the law you're talking about here. And Jesus ever kept the Sabbath. Check your Bible, he's always in the temple on the Sabbath. Even Paul and all the Apostles kept it.
It's only the Pharisees that accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath on the ground that he heals people on the day. On one of the occasions, he exposed their hypocrisy by telling them that none of them would would leave their Ox in the ditch on the Sabbath, but they wanted him not to heal a descendant of Abraham on the Sabbath.
Please take your time to read Acts 18:4, 11. Apostle Paul did always kept the Sabbath.
The fact that it's a part of the law that was written on stone and kept inside the ark of covenant is a testimony to its eternal relevance. The ceremonial laws are the only ones meant for the Jews and it's the only one that Jesus has come to abolish, not the moral law.
Revelation 11:19 says the heavenly temple was opened and the ark of covenant appeared in it. What exactly is inside this ark? It's only just the tablets containing the moral laws of God of which the Sabbath is an important part of it. It's a one law that tells us which God we're serving and no doubt, will determine our salvation in the end of days.

Hermes019:
I have heard this a couple of times,you are asked to imagine how it feels when a fire burns your skin,and then you are told that it would feel the same way or even worse to be cast into the lake of fire(hell). I have a problem with this illustration. When we are burned by fire or any hot object we feel hurt because we have a nervous system,if we didn't have a nervous system or if our nervous systems were not functioning we can't feel pain,even if your whole body is completely burnt u wouldn't feel any pain.Of course this is something we can relate to when you are given an anaesthetic maybe during surgery and that body region becomes numb no matter the manner of injury you inflict to that portion the person wouldn't feel any pain. Suffice to say it is not the fire that is really responsible for the pain,what causes u to feel pain is the reaction of your body(the pain receptors,brain and motor receptors) to the stimulus(the fire).
So having established this,we can say that no nervous system,no pain

So this brings us to my question

Does the spirit (if it actually exists as claimed)possess a nervous system or a replica of some sort ?
If it doesn't then how exactly will a spirit feel pain ?


Cc Ihedinobi3,originalkalokalo,Mutteylaff,rekinomtla,
budaatum,
Johnydon22,CAPSLOCKED,XxSabrinaxX,
Frank317,Seun

anybody that does not know that pain is of the physical,, needs to take a chair,, start all the way back at jss1 and study every medically science related thing their is on neurology...

even common day anesthetics used in surgeries should get any common man thinking on the plausibility of hell

CodeTemplar:
Same way flesh feel emotion without any trace in the flesh.

wow bro..you really need to read and be educated

DeOTR:

You're not getting it, are you? The 10 commandments is not a part of the law you're talking about here. And Jesus ever kept the Sabbath. Check your Bible, he's always in the temple on the Sabbath. Even Paul and all the Apostles kept it.
It's only the Pharisees that accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath on the ground that he heals people on the day. On one of the occasions, he exposed their hypocrisy by telling them that none of them would would leave their Ox in the ditch on the Sabbath, but they wanted him not to heal a descendant of Abraham on the Sabbath.
Please take your time to read Acts 18:4, 11. Apostle Paul did always kept the Sabbath.
The fact that it's a part of the law that was written on stone and kept inside the ark of covenant is a testimony to its eternal relevance. The ceremonial laws are the only ones meant for the Jews and it's the only one that Jesus has come to abolish, not the moral law.
Revelation 11:19 says the heavenly temple was opened and the ark of covenant appeared in it. What exactly is inside this ark? It's only just the tablets containing the moral laws of God of which the Sabbath is an important part of it. It's a one law that tells us which God we're serving and no doubt, will determine our salvation in the end of days.

It's OK,you can continue to keep your Sabbath as you have believed but as for over 8,000,000 JWs across the globe,our resolve is UNDERSTANDING the principles that anyday could be chosen for rest and anyday could be chosen for our sacred services to our God depending on individual circumstances! Jesus and Paul goes to the Temple during Sabbaths because that's the ONLY day those Jews were taught to avail themselves for sacred services. JWs also understood this principle that's why people are confused about our preaching and teaching program because they don't know that each JW has a day he/she has dedicated for the preaching work,moreover in different communities we have known the times our neighbours are available at home! God bless you.

Hermes019:
Oh lawd, how many times am I going to explain these things
Emotions are the handwork of the nervous system
The brain is the centre of the whole stuff, if the spirit or soul doesn't have the nervous system how does it "feel" anything, what is the mechanism ?

My dear friend, you did not pick up on the point I was trying to get you understand with using that grieving the spirit picture.

Hermes019, you know what grief is, right? The point is the soul can feel pain, sorrow, be hurt, be distressed independently of feeling them via organs or a nervous system. Case in point, the rich man in that famous parable, begging for a dip of the tip of Lazarus' finger in water to cool his tongue as he is tormented in hell. The other point is that, after death and over at the other side, you feel

Now Hermes019 when you starve the ego (i.e. I mean the image you have of yourself and/or your social mask) but feed the soul (i.e. your spirit man/essence/true self being nourished) you do this with faculties and/or organs, in terms of feeding with ¹sight with eyes, ²hearing or listening with ears, ³somatosensation with the body/hands, ⁴when tasting with the mouth and last but not the least when ⁵smelling with the nose, now all these are possibilities that one doesnt, with organs or nervous system necessarily need to perceive with. When one says they smell a rat, they arent outrightly smelling a rat, but really are saying something is not right. They know.

I dont want to go into the deep end with you on what the physiology, details and/or intricacies of the spirit is, aside saying, Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul. This means Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet) and spirit.
Now Hermes019, the Soul has the body and spirit on each opposite sides of it.

Mind you Hermes019, this next point is very important to note, and it is that the Soul is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about or over the Soul. All attack is ultimately targeted at acquisition of the Soul.

I am only dipping feet in water here because of your comment that the "... Emotions are the handwork of the nervous system. The brain is the centre of the whole stuff..."
The thing Hermes019 is that the Body, just as I earlier advanced has 5 faculties of senses, which are, to see via the eyes, hear via the ears, feel via applicable part of the body, smell via the nose and taste via the mouth). Now interestingly, the faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions and the faculties of the spirit comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition

"Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says,
"He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us"?"
- James 4:5

"Their actions do not allow them to return to their God, for a spirit of promiscuity is among them, and they do not know the LORD."
- Hosea 5:4

Aside James 4:5 and Hosea 5:4 above, to keep in mind, Hermes019 please hold on and stay tight closely with me. Now, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this Soul by way of the body and spirit. As a matter of fact, without the spirit, the Soul will just be like a cartoon character on a comic strip but with the spirit, the cartoon character becomes animated. This is part of what the spirit does to the Soul, it brings the soul alive. You see, when God breathed into the nostril of Adam, He gave Adam, with this thing called "ruach", the breath of life and it made Adam become a living soul. This thing known as "ruach" is part of the essence of God that I earlier said, returns back to God, whenever a person draws their last breath

Remember I earlier mentioned that the Soul has the body and spirit on each opposite sides of it? Well, the Soul, in effective, is the mediator between the body and spirit, and this for particularly good reasons of which discussing further about that here will derail the thread

On another point. Are you familiar with the saying in Leviticus 17:11 and Deuteronomy 12:23 or Genesis 2:7, Job 33:4 and Job 27:3 that:
the LIFE of the FLESH is in the BLOOD and the LIFE of the SOUL is in the breath/SPIRIT

The BLOOD makes the difference between the life and death of the BODY
(i.e. when blood stops circulating, the SOUL departs/exits the body)
- a body without a soul becomes a corpse or dead body

The SPIRIT makes the difference between the life and death of the SOUL
(i.e. when spirit leaves, the SOUL is empty)
- a soul without spirit becomes a dead soul

"Now may the God of peace make you holy in every way,
and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless
until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again."
- 1 Thessalonians 5:23

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me."
- Psalm 51:10

The Spirit, Soul and Body have distinct and different roles to play, and up there, 1 Thessalonians 5:23 hints about keeping the three above board whilst Psalm 51:10 reveals how important a clean heart and right spirit is

The spirit, typifies what has to do with our relation to God or our consciousness of God (i.e. relation with what is more than ourselves)
the soul, typifies what has to do with our relation to ourselves or our self consciousness
the body, typifies what has to do with our relation to the physical and material world (i.e. relation with what is less than ourselves)

Hermes019, "hell" will hurt the Soul because the reality of the difficult, unpleasant, awkward and/or embarrassing situation it finds itself at that time in, will infuse it with anguish, regret, misery, depression, discomfort, anxiety and literally gnash and/or grit teeth in agitation

As you can see DeOTR has got a handle on this too but I do wonder what DeOTR's take is on angels impregnating human beings. Anyway, Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo on. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits on family members, friends or detractors

Until Jesus in the New Testament, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in Old Testament (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol but it was Jesus in the New Testament that brought things into perspective for us, when He shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol, and that was with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side. Now it important to remember this, that just because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality in it, so same is to be understood with this parable

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood. The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, when talking about the afterlife, has interchangeably being replaced with the words, gehenna and Hell/Hades.

Ihedinobi3:
The Bible does not tell us whether spirits can feel or not. What it does say is that rebel angels today are afraid of being put in the Abyss which is a place supernaturally devoid of light in every respect. Thus, we can believe that the Lake of Fire must be able to affect them unpleasantly too.

Hermes019:
Fear is a feeling, so going by what you said the bible does suggest that spirits can feel, I would come back to this.
Mutteylaff says when a person dies the spirit returns to YHWH while the soul faces judent,hence it is the soul that is cast into hell, are you in agreement with this ?

Ihedinobi3:
I phrased things like I did because we can "feel" material stimuli, like touch or heat etc, which are all things we experience as physical beings. But we can also "feel" joy or peace or anger which do not require any material stimulus so that being physical is not necessary for such feelings.

The Bible does not tell us that spirits experience material stimuli, so I cannot say categorically that they feel in that sense. But, of course, they can experience fear as a feeling as well as pleasure etc.

My concern is always with what the Bible says, so I will only answer you from that perspective.

1.
[7]then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 NASB

This means that after death, our part is done and God's bit begins in earnest. To explain, yes, God rules Creation even while we live but He limits His influence to allow us to make free decisions about Him. But death ends our opportunity to freely make decisions about Him and then we must face the consequences of those decisions. This is what it means that our spirits return to God.

2.
[7]Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7 NASB

[45]So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 NASB

The above means that man is a spirit which God created to live in a physical body. That is, man is not a body, soul and spirit. Rather, he is a soul which is what results from the creation of a spirit that lives in a physical body. Therefore, it is not possible to separate a spirit which goes to God from a soul which goes to hell.

3.
[28]Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28 NASB

[22]Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
[23]In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
[25]But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:22-25 NASB

[2]Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 NASB

[28]Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
[29]and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28-29 NASB

[4]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
[12]And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
[13]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
[15]And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:4,12-13,15 NASB

The first passage in the above should be read in light of those that follow. The point in that verse is that it is God Who is to be feared because He is the Only One Who can truly harm us in every way. When our bodies are destroyed, we will still live. In fact, when this earthly body dies, we are given another interim one with which we wait for either the Resurrection of the Righteous or the Judgment of the Great White Throne. It is only God Who can truly harm not just our earthly bodies but our whole being. That is what the Lake of Fire is designed to do. It can damage spirits which otherwise cannot be affected at all except by the Abyss and Torments (both of which are still part of Hell and will be filled with this Lake in the end).

As the following passages above show, there is no separation of spirit from soul for punishment. We are rewarded or punished in our full composition as human persons (that is what "soul" means).

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
- Ecclesiastes 12:7

"For I won't accuse forever, nor will I always be angry; for then the human spirit would grow faint before me— even the souls that I have created."
- Isaiah 57:16

"Then the LORD said,
"My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh.
In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.""
- Genesis 6:3

I am not going to comment on all the above that Ihedinobi3 typed in response to you saying to him "Mutteylaff says when a person dies the spirit returns to YHWH while the soul faces judgement, hence it is the soul that is cast into hell" and then asking him the question "are you in agreement with this?" except that for him to post Ecclesiastes 12:7 which clearing states that "the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it", then I am cleared of any blame or suspicion of giving wrong information that isnt supported by the bible and I've been proven right by that verse and others like Isaiah 57:16 and Genesis 6:3 that the spirit does go back to God and that your Soul outlives you.

Make no mistake, we are breath-man, spirit-man who happen to be Souls, it is the breath of God, the ruach, the spirit that keeps the body and soul ticking on. When the last breath is drawn, the breath or spirit goes back to God and the Soul then departs this side of eternity. Ourselves, our Soul is like a ballon, it is like a ballon with air in it, and you know, as I dont have to explain what happens when there is air in balloons. We essentially are like balloons, we need air (i.e. ruach, God's breath and/or spirit source of life) inside, to become functional

The Bible, in Ezekiel 18:20 says, it is soul that sinneth, it shall die, it doesnt say it is the spirit that shall die. It also states in Ezekiel 18:4: "Behold, every soul belongs to Me; both father and son are Mine. The soul who sins is the one who will die", so please Hermes019, do not be, just like that be mixing up the soul with spirit. It is the Soul, that on judgement, will then, have to give account and explanations for every single deed, action, thought and statement it as a human being made whilst living on earth. God help the Soul, who has no Advocate to fight his or her corner for them, God have mercy on him or her who decides to represent themselves against Satan the Prosecutor

The devil doesnt hide the fact it is after the Soul, and all human beings to the devil are easy pickings, as the Soul is easy to steal, easy to get at when the spirit is subdued and/or killed off, so to attack, to steal and to destroy the Soul and all it owns, by weakening the spirit, by cutting off the Soul's access to God via a right, willing and vibrant spirit are all part of the devil's masterplan.

Though I've commented already on this but you still have repeated it again with Ihedinobi3, that: "If a person loses a dear one, there is no "physical" stimulus like heat or pressure but the person feels pain, all these are attributes of the nervous system particularly the brain, so the question I have posed is that you give an explanation (if you have one) of how a spirit/soul would feel pain if it doesn't have a nervous system", so let in a simplified way, say this, when the soul is hurt, it isnt something, it physically, is aware of through the senses, nervous system particularly the brain or whatnot, it just is aware of this and knows the feeling. When the Rich man in that famous parable asked for Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool his tongue, do you think there is a literal finger and tongue thing going on in there?

Hermes019, let me share with you another penny in the truth jar, you'll so far would have noticed that, the truth(s) in the Bible are like pearls mixed in with a lot of worthless pebbles, so the onus rests on you to sift through a lot of stuff, pick things up, look at them and when you stumble on pearls, to then dust them down, wipe, clean, brush and buff them until they bring out the shine, the luster, the sparkle and the light in them. Hermes019, note here, there is going to be two kinds of light, it could be a glow that illuminates or it might be a glare that obscures, but you will know which is which when it hits you.

I just finished reading a few chapters of the book of revelation and it still sound dumb. Afterlife is wack

@Ihedinobi3,Mutteylaff I would have loved to address what each of u said specifically but I'm afraid we would end up arguing on transient stuff and the question I would remain unanswered
Let's define Pain Physiologically

Pain is the response from the body,orchestrated by the nervous system when the "pain centres" in the brain are sensitized

Following this definition we can see that pain is a function of the nervous system,pain can not be felt without the nervous system being present.
If the spirit/soul whichever of them that is cast in hell does not possess the nervous system then how can pain occur

I know that you believe that the spirit/soul feels pain,my question is how ?
Its just like saying that a living thing can "see" without possessing the eyes

The answer I want to get is the process/mechanism that would enable a supposed being feel pain if the mechanism/process that we know of is absent ?

Hermes019:
@Ihedinobi3,Mutteylaff I would have loved to address what each of u said specifically but I'm afraid we would end up arguing on transient stuff and the question I would remain unanswered
Let's define Pain Physiologically

Pain is the response from the body,orchestrated by the nervous system when the "pain centres" in the brain are sensitized

Following this definition we can see that pain is a function of the nervous system,pain can not be felt without the nervous system being present.
If the spirit/soul whichever of them that is cast in hell does not possess the nervous system then how can pain occur

I know that you believe that the spirit/soul feels pain,my question is how ?
Its just like saying that a living thing can "see" without possessing the eyes

The answer I want to get is the process/mechanism that would enable a supposed being feel pain if the mechanism/process that we know of is absent ?

Why do you find it hard believing that the Almighty who creates the mechanism behind pain cant also make you feel pain without that mechanism?
Lets not forget that what we can possibly explain is the physical mechanism of pain,but not the feeling itself.This also includes our feelings of emotions- happiness,love,hate,fear,hunger,our feeling of self...you name it- All this transcends a physical explanation.

Why do you find it hard believing that the Almighty who creates the mechanism behind pain cant also make you feel pain without that mechanism?

make no mistake,I am not asking you not to believe what you choose,belief is very easy its not the problem here,some other people believe that we reincarnate into other forms of life when we die,anyone can believe whatever they like,what I am asking for is a logical explanation, its either you have one or you don't

Let's not forget that what we can possibly explain is the physical mechanism of pain,but not the feeling itself.This also includes our feelings of emotions- happiness,love,hate,fear,hunger,our feeling of self...you name it- All this transcends a physical explanation.

I agree that "feelings" may not be vividly explainable since they are intangible but there are mechanisms responsible for them and I want to find out the ones responsible for the "feelings" a spirit/soul has

TATIME:
It's OK,you can continue to keep your Sabbath as you have believed but as for over 8,000,000 JWs across the globe,our resolve is UNDERSTANDING the principles that anyday could be chosen for rest and anyday could be chosen for our sacred services to our God depending on individual circumstances! Jesus and Paul goes to the Temple during Sabbaths because that's the ONLY day those Jews were taught to avail themselves for sacred services. JWs also understood this principle that's why people are confused about our preaching and teaching program because they don't know that each JW has a day he/she has dedicated for the preaching work,moreover in different communities we have known the times our neighbours are available at home! God bless you.

Jesus and Paul didn't keep the Sabbath because of the Jews, it's because it's the law of God. Check the verse I gave you about Paul keeping the Sabbath, he was with gentiles. On an occasion where he gave a sermon, they beseeched him to preach it again the next Sabbath. If it's their custom to worship on Sunday, they could have just tell him to preach it again the next day.
Sunday worship is a creation of the Roman Catholic. And as the Bible Antichrist (which JW is aware of) they've boasted of changing the laws of God by granting rest to man, not on the day designated by the Creator, but a different day instituted by them. Of all thing, I wonder how JW had to inherit a major doctrine of the Catholic, which is Sunday worship.
Consider the bolded parts of the book of Daniel and a quote from the Romantic Catholic Church and tell me Sabbath keeping is not important :
Daniel 7:25-He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,
and shall think to change the times and the law;
and they shall be given into his hand
for ba time, times, and half a time.

The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." (Canon and Tradition, p. 263)

@MuttleyLaff, Jesus never teaches the doctrine of immortal soul, neither did he talk about man being conscious spiritually after death. You'll know this if you read the verse where he raised Lazarus from the dead :

John 11:11-14 ...'These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.'

So Jesus spoke of death as sleeping. Not about going to heaven or hell when we die, but sleeping. And until when do we sleep in the grave?
Martha knew the answer ...
John 11:23-24 ...'Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' ...
You see Martha knew that Lazarus would rise again at the resurrection, which would be Jesus' second coming, but as we know, Jesus decided to resurrect Lazarus there and then.

It's as simple as ABC.

DeOTR:

Jesus and Paul didn't keep the Sabbath because of the Jews, it's because it's the law of God. Check the verse I gave you about Paul keeping the Sabbath, he was with gentiles. On an occasion where he gave a sermon, they beseeched him to preach it again the next Sabbath. If it's their custom to worship on Sunday, they could have just tell him to preach it again the next day.
Sunday worship is a creation of the Roman Catholic. And as the Bible Antichrist (which JW is aware of) they've boasted of changing the laws of God by granting rest to man, not on the day designated by the Creator, but a different day instituted by them. Of all thing, I wonder how JW had to inherit a major doctrine of the Catholic, which is Sunday worship.
Consider the bolded parts of the book of Daniel and a quote from the Romantic Catholic Church and tell me Sabbath keeping is not important :
Daniel 7:25-He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,
and shall think to change the times and the law;
and they shall be given into his hand
for ba time, times, and half a time.

The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." (Canon and Tradition, p. 263)

True Christians aren't bothered about Saturdays anymore since we're no more under obligation to keep the Sabbath! Colossians 2:16
Ceasar {Roman Emperor} decreed that Sunday should be taken for all sacred services{Romans 13:1} and since we're not tied to any particular day,it's no problem for true Christians as long as we'll have TIME for sacred services! Ecclesiastes 3:1 Moreover our worship is to preach and teach people about God's Kingdom,so if such decree will make us found people to preach to IT'S JUST OK!

TATIME:
True Christians aren't bothered about Saturdays anymore since we're no more under obligation to keep the Sabbath! Colossians 2:16
Ceasar {Roman Emperor} decreed that Sunday should be taken for all sacred services{Romans 13:1} and since we're not tied to any particular day,it's no problem for true Christians as long as we'll have TIME for sacred services! Ecclesiastes 3:1 Moreover our worship is to preach and teach people about God's Kingdom,so if such decree will make us found people to preach to IT'S JUST OK!

Colossians 2:16 is talking about meat, drinks and ordinance. It has nothing to do with Sabbath of the Lord. The Sabbath days (notice the plural) refers to other Jewish holidays (yom Kippie, pass over, etc?) not the weekly Sabbath.
It's all about who you chose to obey, God, or a pagan emperor.
It's not use teaching people who are not obeying God's law.

Hermes019:
@Ihedinobi3, Mutteylaff I would have loved to address what each of u said specifically but I'm afraid we would end up arguing on transient stuff and the question I would remain unanswered
Let's define Pain Physiologically

Pain is the response from the body,orchestrated by the nervous system when the "pain centres" in the brain are sensitized

Following this definition we can see that pain is a function of the nervous system,pain can not be felt without the nervous system being present.
If the spirit/soul whichever of them that is cast in hell does not possess the nervous system then how can pain occur

I know that you believe that the spirit/soul feels pain,my question is how ?
Its just like saying that a living thing can "see" without possessing the eyes

The answer I want to get is the process/mechanism that would enable a supposed being feel pain if the mechanism/process that we know of is absent ?

The moniker is MuttleyLaff and not Mutteylaff and to be honest with you Hermes019, you are just being difficult, now continue reading on for more of my response next below

BeLookingIDIOT:
Why do you find it hard believing that the Almighty who creates the mechanism behind pain cant also make you feel pain without that mechanism?
Lets not forget that what we can possibly explain is the physical mechanism of pain,but not the feeling itself. This also includes our feelings of emotions- happiness, love, hate, fear, hunger, our feeling of self...you name it- All this transcends a physical explanation.

You are a confirmed god for making this, very deep, profound and very beautiful statement

Hermes019:
make no mistake, I am not asking you not to believe what you choose, belief is very easy its not the problem here, some other people believe that we reincarnate into other forms of life when we die, anyone can believe whatever they like, what I am asking for is a logical explanation, its either you have one or you don't
I agree that "feelings" may not be vividly explainable since they are intangible but there are mechanisms responsible for them and I want to find out the ones responsible for the "feelings" a spirit/soul has

"^26aThen God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...
^27aSo God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them;"
- Genesis 1:26a-27a

First Hermes019, please why just cant you take to being corrected not to keep mistaking spirit for Soul. The two are distinct and different from each other. We are not human beings on a spiritual journey. We are souls, infused with the breath ruach of God, that makes us spiritual beings on a human journey, having a human being experience on earth

Now Hermes019, you are familiar with Genesis 1:26a-27a above, I am sure, but then about your continuing and prolonged demanding for an explanation for the mechanisms responsible for pain, well, I once read a woman, I think Vanna Bonta RIP, is her name, who said:
"The body knows no pain, not like the soul. At least a nerve has limits, a body part a name. But the soul... the soul... There is no bandage ..." so the fact of the matter, is that pain can be felt with or without physical impulses or mechanisms to convey the pain message because pain originally is an image of something else not physical or be felt with physical mechanisms

DeOTR:
@MuttleyLaff, Jesus never teaches the doctrine of immortal soul, neither did he talk about man being conscious spiritually after death. You'll know this if you read the verse where he raised Lazarus from the dead :

DeOTR, please reproduce verbatim where and when MuttleyLaff advanced anything about a "doctrine of immortal soul". If you are unable to, which I am quite sure would be the case, please then retract that statement you launched at me and ask for clarification of my comment if not sure of what I've typed

DeOTR:
John 11:11-14 ...'These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.'

So Jesus spoke of death as sleeping. Not about going to heaven or hell when we die, but sleeping. And until when do we sleep in the grave?
Martha knew the answer ...
John 11:23-24 ...'Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' ...
You see Martha knew that Lazarus would rise again at the resurrection, which would be Jesus' second coming, but as we know, Jesus decided to resurrect Lazarus there and then.

It's as simple as ABC.

You are conflating two Lazaruses my friend. There was Lazarus, the real human being plus a friend of Jesus and there was Lazarus, the hypothetical or imaginary human being in the famous parable. The two are chalk and cheese

The thing that is as simple as ABC, is that every dead person really is sleeping, as they are oblivious to what is happening in the land of the living.

Next time, question me, ask me questions to clear up whatever I have typed, instead of jumping to conclusions and incorrectly saying things I never advanced, say or mean

Also DeOTR what is your take on angels allegedly impregnating human beings.

I once read a woman, I think Vanna Bonta RIP, is her name, who said:
"The body knows no pain, not like the soul. At least a nerve has limits, a body part a name. But the soul... the soul... There is no bandage ..." so the fact of the matter, is that pain can be felt with or without physical impulses or mechanisms to convey the pain message because pain originally is an image of something else not physical or be felt with physical mechanisms

I guess the answer is not in your bible,hence you resort to quoting human philosophy,@ the bolded is false,pain can not be felt without the nervous system being involved and I used an anaesthetic to demonstrate that,u have not presented even one mechanism and that is the problem I wish to point out,you christians don't have any explanation to anything all you have is your belief and even when an explanation is brought forth you would not waste time to dispute it if it negates ur belief

DeOTR:

Colossians 2:16 is talking about meat, drinks and ordinance. It has nothing to do with Sabbath of the Lord. The Sabbath days (notice the plural) refers to other Jewish holidays (yom Kippie, pass over, etc?) not the weekly Sabbath.
It's all about who you chose to obey, God, or a pagan emperor.
It's not use teaching people who are not obeying God's law.

God's word says "be obedient to the superior authorities" Romans 13:1
So if they say Wednesday is the day we're allowed to go for our sacred services,it's OK! All we must do is render sacred services to our God,the particular day or venue is NO MORE important. John 4:21-24

Hermes019:
I guess the answer is not in your bible, hence you resort to quoting human philosophy, @ the bolded is false, pain can not be felt without the nervous system being involved and I used an anaesthetic to demonstrate that

Hermes019 you know as well as I do, that I have already shown you where in the bible, without the nervous system being involved, discomfort and/or pain is felt, now I literally just had to laugh out loud at the sneaky games you are playing at, like avoiding to mention me, so I wont reply you back and clutching at straw, saying that lady of blessed memory who is a believer, made that remark using human philosophy

Hermes019:
u have not presented even one mechanism and that is the problem I wish to point out

You see, I know why you are so concerned about this pain issue but your problem is that you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system or other bodily part to convey the pain message.

Hermes019:
you christians don't have any explanation to anything all you have is your belief and even when an explanation is brought forth you would not waste time to dispute it if it negates ur belief

Hermes019 dont get personal and becoming unneccesarily frustrated. There is a distinction between beliefs and truth, beliefs are not necessarily truths. I will again advise you to confirm what light you're looking at, is it a glow or might it be a glare?

Hermes019:
@Ihedinobi3,Mutteylaff I would have loved to address what each of u said specifically but I'm afraid we would end up arguing on transient stuff and the question I would remain unanswered
Let's define Pain Physiologically

Pain is the response from the body,orchestrated by the nervous system when the "pain centres" in the brain are sensitized

Following this definition we can see that pain is a function of the nervous system,pain can not be felt without the nervous system being present.
If the spirit/soul whichever of them that is cast in hell does not possess the nervous system then how can pain occur

I know that you believe that the spirit/soul feels pain,my question is how ?
Its just like saying that a living thing can "see" without possessing the eyes

The answer I want to get is the process/mechanism that would enable a supposed being feel pain if the mechanism/process that we know of is absent ?

I have actually answered you a few times already. I will try one more time in another way.

Here are the points:

1. Spirits are different from physical beings because they do not possess physical bodies. This means that they do not have nervous systems like physical beings do.

2. But spirits do feel fear and joy and pleasure and anger among other things, according to the Bible. Therefore, it is to be expected that they are capable of feeling pain even if not physical pain since they lack physical bodies with which to register physical damage.

3. That is, the Bible teaches that spirits will suffer pain in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10).

4. But, it does not teach how they do in fact feel anything at all. This is the answer to your question. Christians who are diligent to study and follow the Bible cannot tell you how spirits feel anything at all because the Bible does not say.

5. Finally, the lack of that information is deliberate on God's Part. The goal of the Bible is not to tell us everything we want to know. It is only to tell us what we need to know in order to make the choice that we are here on earth for, namely, whether to trust God and submit to Him or to reject Him and rebel against His Authority.

DeOTR:
First, humans are not of body spirit and soul.
Genesis 2:7 ...'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul'.
As you can see, man was not given a soul, he became a living soul through the breath of God (spirit. The Greek and Hebrew words translated as spirit simply means, air, or breath).
So what happens when we die (lose our breath)?
Genesis 3:19 ...' In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.'
As simple as that. We return to the same state we were.
As for the question of the OP, since the righteous dead will take on a new body at resurrection at the end of days, it's sensible that the damned will be destroyed in the lake of fire bodily.

False teachings of a spirit surviving after death is the cause of this confusion. When you die, you die. There's nothing like your spirit wandering the universe. That's a demonic teaching and it's not supported by the Bible. The Bible only said, the dead are sleeping.

"It is appointed for man to die once, and after this, judgement"
How do you explain this?

MuttleyLaff:
Hermes019 you know as well as I do, that I have already shown you where in the bible, without the nervous system being involved, discomfort and/or pain is felt, now I literally just had to laugh out loud at the sneaky games you are playing at, like avoiding to mention me, so I wont reply you back and clutching at straw, saying that lady of blessed memory who is a believer, made that remark using human philosophy

You see, I know why you are so concerned about this pain issue but your problem is that you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system or other bodily part to convey the pain message.

Hermes019 dont get personal and becoming unneccesarily frustrated. There is a distinction between beliefs and truth, beliefs are not necessarily truths. I will again advise you to confirm what light you're looking at, is it a glow or might it be a glare?

Ok,so in conclusion what is the mechanism ?

Ihedinobi3:

I have actually answered you a few times already. I will try one more time in another way.

Here are the points:

1. Spirits are different from physical beings because they do not possess physical bodies. This means that they do not have nervous systems like physical beings do.

2. But spirits do feel fear and joy and pleasure and anger among other things, according to the Bible. Therefore, it is to be expected that they are capable of feeling pain even if not physical pain since they lack physical bodies with which to register physical damage.

3. That is, the Bible teaches that spirits will suffer pain in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10).

4. But, it does not teach how they do in fact feel anything at all. This is the answer to your question. Christians who are diligent to study and follow the Bible cannot tell you how spirits feel anything at all because the Bible does not say.

5. Finally, the lack of that information is deliberate on God's Part. The goal of the Bible is not to tell us everything we want to know. It is only to tell us what we need to know in order to make the choice that we are here on earth for, namely, whether to trust God and submit to Him or to reject Him and rebel against His Authority.

If this be the case then doesn't it show that as human beings we can not imagine what naturr of "pain" hell fire would cause ?

Hermes019:
Ok, so in conclusion what is the mechanism?

Ihedinobi3 and I have already told you in different, similar and same ways, but you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part that conveys the pain message.

Hermes019:
If this be the case then doesn't it show that as human beings we can not imagine what naturr of "pain" hell fire would cause ?

I laughed so hard at this comment that I almost knocked over my glass of rouge. I earlier told you I know why you are so concerned about this pain and your obsession to know the mechanism of feeling it

Why arent you interested in the pleasures therein, of being in Abraham's bosom, which now is paradise, instead of this preoccupation with knowing the mechanism for the pain. If I am none the wiser, I would have thought that, it's like your are trying to shack yourself up and prepare yourself for the place with the knowledge you might have obtained or extracted from this thread. Anyway like I've said earlier, I know why you are devoted to this question

Hermes019:

If this be the case then doesn't it show that as human beings we can not imagine what naturr of "pain" hell fire would cause ?

Yes indeed, it does, as I believe I mentioned earlier. We have loads of wiggle room with free will. Because we must be free to decide to submit to God or not to as we please, spiritual realities are largely kept hidden from us. For example, the locations of both the Third Heaven where God's Throne currently is and Hades where the Abyss, Torments and the empty Paradise are and which the Lake of Fire will fill in the end are inaccessible to us humans even though angels can access them easily.

So, we can receive what the Bible says as Truth or we can insist that unless we see things for ourselves we won't believe. This choice is exactly the same as choosing to trust God or to reject Him.

We cannot imagine what Hell is like. Really, if we could, nobody would dare to disobey God. But now we know that God says that it exists and that it is unpleasant in the extreme. We can believe that and submit to God. Or we can deny it and rebel against Him. That is how true free will works.

Hermes019:
If this be the case then doesn't it show that as human beings we can not imagine what naturr of "pain" hell fire would cause ?

Ihedinobi3:
Yes indeed, it does, as I believe I mentioned earlier. We have loads of wiggle room with free will. Because we must be free to decide to submit to God or not to as we please, spiritual realities are largely kept hidden from us. For example, the locations of both the Third Heaven where God's Throne currently is and Hades where the Abyss, Torments and the empty Paradise are and which the Lake of Fire will fill in the end are inaccessible to us humans even though angels can access them easily.

So, we can receive what the Bible says as Truth or we can insist that unless we see things for ourselves we won't believe. This choice is exactly the same as choosing to trust God or to reject Him.
We cannot imagine what Hell is like. Really, if we could, nobody would dare to disobey God. But now we know that God says that it exists and that it is unpleasant in the extreme. We can believe that and submit to God. Or we can deny it and rebel against Him. That is how true free will works.

Hermes019, we can imagine what hell is like because of the narrative of the famous parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, in it, the rich man is begging for a dip of the tip of Lazarus' finger in water to cool his tongue as he is tormented in there. He even additionally begged to have his brothers be warned about the place, but his request wasnt granted. Elsewhere, like I previously mentioned, the bible, also about fiery furnace, said there will be weeping there and gnashing of teeth in there, obviously not to be taken literally, but still

raphieMontella:


wow bro..you really need to read and be educated

About what?

Seandisputed:

"It is appointed for man to die once, and after this, judgement"
How do you explain this?

Judgement is going on presently and it started during the times of John the baptist because whoever refused to listen to John is no more going to be resurrected after death! Matthew 11:13
Jesus continued the preaching about God's kingdom and He made it clear that whoever disbelieve Him has been JUDGED ALREADY! John 3:18
So the after death judgement simply means many of those people who lived by conscience but had no opportunity of knowing true righteousness which Jesus taught Christians will be resurrected in order for such persons to have the same opportunity,they will be taught by Christians who will welcome them back to life for your information that's why the dead in Christ must be resurrected FIRST! Revelation 20:12,13
The idea that people will all stand like in a court~room before a judge does not correlate with other scriptures so it's NOT to be taken literal!
The Bible already declared that death is what sinners will get as payment and they're dead already{Romans 6:23 compared to Genesis 3:19} it is those who have responded to the Goodnews of God's kingdom that God has their names in HIS memory for REMEMBRANCE! Malachi 3:16 compared to Revelations 20:15
So any resurrected unbeliever must have lived a life that's stringent with good conscience so God will allow such persons to know HIS own righteousness which is "Christ". Romans 10:1-4 But all those who ignore or reject the teachings of Jesus Christ are already destroyed that is why Jesus referred to all those who had the opportunity to know Him but refused to use such chances as DEAD! Luke 9:60 All these things you can't fully grasp the understanding unless you HUMBLY make effort to know the REAL Christians and they will TEACH you! Matthew 28:20 compared to Matthew 5:5,Zephaniah 2:2,3
God bless you!

Hermes019:
make no mistake,I am not asking you not to believe what you choose,belief is very easy its not the problem here,some other people believe that we reincarnate into other forms of life when we die,anyone can believe whatever they like,what I am asking for is a logical explanation, its either you have one or you don't
I agree that "feelings" may not be vividly explainable since they are intangible but there are mechanisms responsible for them and I want to find out the ones responsible for the "feelings" a spirit/soul has

There is a difference between a logical explanation and a scientific one- The explanation I had given is hope I wont be causing u to multitask...interrupting ur chats with important humans in ya life this morning again? logical.
The cause is hell and the effect will be pain-that's a simple enough mechanism.

MuttleyLaff:
Ihedinobi3 and I have already told you in different, similar and same ways, but you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part that conveys the pain message.

I laughed so hard at this comment that I almost knocked over my glass of rouge. I earlier told you I know why you are so concerned about this pain and your obsession to know the mechanism of feeling it

Why arent you interested in the pleasures therein, of being in Abraham's bosom, which now is paradise, instead of this preoccupation with knowing the mechanism for the pain. If I am none the wiser, I would have thought that, it's like your are trying to shack yourself up and prepare yourself for the place with the knowledge you might have obtained or extracted from this thread. Anyway like I've said earlier, I know why you are devoted to this question

You are still repeating what you have been saying
I don't have an issue with what you believe,you can believe that souls can feel pain without the nervous system
I want to know the mechanism that would produce such pain its either you know it or you don't
I don't know why we are going over this again,so let me ask you directly
Mutteylaff do you know the mechanism/process through which souls would feel pain since the one we know(the nervous system) is absent ?

P.S the bolded in ur post is your personal opinion there is no reason for me to agree with that,pain can not come out from anywhere,it must have a mechamism

Ihedinobi3:

Yes indeed, it does, as I believe I mentioned earlier. We have loads of wiggle room with free will. Because we must be free to decide to submit to God or not to as we please, spiritual realities are largely kept hidden from us. For example, the locations of both the Third Heaven where God's Throne currently is and Hades where the Abyss, Torments and the empty Paradise are and which the Lake of Fire will fill in the end are inaccessible to us humans even though angels can access them easily.

So, we can receive what the Bible says as Truth or we can insist that unless we see things for ourselves we won't believe. This choice is exactly the same as choosing to trust God or to reject Him.

We cannot imagine what Hell is like. Really, if we could, nobody would dare to disobey God. But now we know that God says that it exists and that it is unpleasant in the extreme. We can believe that and submit to God. Or we can deny it and rebel against Him. That is how true free will works.

The bolded is the aspect I appreciate in ur post,but if it stands correct then why do people fear hell,even if YHWH says its unpleasant we cannot relate to what unpleasance is without our physical senses so any "unpleasance" that can be observed without our physical senses is oblivious to us so again I ask
Why do people fear hell ?