₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
That means we can discuss with fairness,put away all malicious betterness and stand NOT for traditions handed over to us but on facts[truth].
Therefore Abraham is not my great-grandfather so i must scrutinise why he should be the ONLY person whose faith[mindset] i needed to attain God's lasting favour!
Well i noticed his determination to do the will of that spirit who called him,he must leave all his relatives and the luxury of the first and foremost world trade center of his time for a place he never knew, afterwards he lived in tents with all that he had, despite his seemingly stupid migration his father chose to follow him, he thereafter continued to trust this spirit even when all that the spirit promised him delayed, he was willing to let go of anything just to keep the friendship of this spirit, he was faithful to his barren wife till old-age, even when his wife who often calls him 'lord' speaks Abraham listens and favourably considers her advice.
Certainly he has this outstandingly uwful and uncommon kind of mindset dignifying unwavering loyalty and faithfulness!
Let's now move forward to his progenies,because continuity is what we're interested in right now that's making us struggle to relate with Abraham!
Abraham had eight children in total from three women (according to the Bible). You and i may reluctantly accept a child born through the pregnancy that we're responsible for,whether the resemblance is sharp or not but we'll be the happiest father if our child takes to our mindset.
So which of Abraham's sons imitated his mindset[faith]?

My friend, it is true that Abraham had 8 kids in all. Abraham had prayed for an Heir. One who he hoped will carry on in his stead. Worshipping God. And God told him that, he that is born from his loins will be his heir and not any servant in his house. But a baby was not coming forth from his marriage to Sarah. It is common tradition to suggest to husband to take another wife and see if God will bless the FAMILY with a Child. The Child born is for the FAMILY in that Customs. Now, we know Ishmael came. The meaning of his name simply means: God heard/God will hear. Hear what? A prayer for an Heir for Abraham. This is where the divide came to be. We Muslims believe that the Child of Promise was Ishmael for till when the Covenant between him and God was ratified when he was 99 years old. As a sign of that covenant, he was instructed to circumcised himself, his boy and every male among his servant. Isaac was born a year later.

You may ask, what warranted the circumcision for the whole family? That was the period he did not withheld HIS ONLY SON in a Sacrifice for God at that point in time. The only Time Abraham had an ONLY SON was when he had Ishmael.

You see all the part, where you read Bondwoman are nothing but the hands of prejudiced Jewish minds. In the Hindus Scripture this same story was repeated and it clearly mentioned that Ishmael was the Sacrificial Son and not Isaac. This is not to say, that Isaac did not have a covenant. He had one and that we see in Jacob, his Twelve boys and many Prophets from that house.

You will notice also that the sons of Kethura, Abraham third wife too were blessed with Spiritual food too. Jethro was from Midian. The Children of Isaac were at forefront then and their Kingdom flourished. But they backslide many a time but God turned to them in Mercy. Sometimes with stripes and sometimes with new prophets to return them to God's way. God had enough of them when they became irredeemably lost when they rejected Christ and God turned towards the Ishmaelite Branch of The Abraham Tree.

That the gist of it. You can see that I did not quote any verse but every thing I have said, there are Scriptures to back it up.

If you want me to quote them, I will be happy to do so.

Shepherd00:
I have submitted my Will YHWH's and allah is not God.

It is a moon god/demon Hübal worshipped in different cultures. but in Arabia Muhammad killed people to make sure everyone worshipped it.



Jesus will judge and condemn allah.

Don't die of ignorance. Seek knowledge it will set you free.

Lukuluku69:
Don't die of ignorance. Seek knowledge it will set you free.

Knowledge in Islam?

WTH? The only knowledge muslims have is the ingenuity to craft ways to kill people, other than that, nothing.

Islam adds nothing to humanity than tears and blood. When others are everywhere discovering things that would better Man's life on earth, Muslims are finding out ways to kill, steal and destroy mankind.

Abegi

Lukuluku69:
My friend, it is true that Abraham had 8 kids in all. Abraham had prayed for an Heir. One who he hoped will carry on in his stead. Worshipping God. And God told him that, he that is born from his loins will be his heir and not any servant in his house. But a baby was not coming forth from his marriage to Sarah. It is common tradition to suggest to husband to take another wife and see if God will bless the FAMILY with a Child. The Child born is for the FAMILY in that Customs. Now, we know Ishmael came. The meaning of his name simply means: God heard/God will hear. Hear what? A prayer for an Heir for Abraham. This is where the divide came to be. We Muslims believe that the Child of Promise was Ishmael for till when the Covenant between him and God was ratified when he was 99 years old. As a sign of that covenant, he was instructed to circumcised himself, his boy and every male among his servant. Isaac was born a year later.

You may ask, what warranted the circumcision for the whole family? That was the period he did not withheld HIS ONLY SON in a Sacrifice for God at that point in time. The only Time Abraham had an ONLY SON was when he had Ishmael.

You see all the part, where you read Bondwoman are nothing but the hands of prejudiced Jewish minds. In the Hindus Scripture this same story was repeated and it clearly mentioned that Ishmael was the Sacrificial Son and not Isaac. This is not to say, that Isaac did not have a covenant. He had one and that we see in Jacob, his Twelve boys and many Prophets from that house.

You will notice also that the sons of Kethura, Abraham third wife too were blessed with Spiritual food too. Jethro was from Midian. The Children of Isaac were at forefront then and their Kingdom flourished. But they backslide many a time but God turned to them in Mercy. Sometimes with stripes and sometimes with new prophets to return them to God's way. God had enough of them when they became irredeemably lost when they rejected Christ and God turned towards the Ishmaelite Branch of The Abraham Tree.

That the gist of it. You can see that I did not quote any verse but every thing I have said, there are Scriptures to back it up.

If you want me to quote them, I will be happy to do so.

OK! So Abraham had Ishmael first and 13 years later the legitimate wife bear Isaac.
Now let's look critically at those EVENTS and PRACTICES to sought out the fabrications that either the Jews or Arabs may have scrupulously shipped in the HISTORY!
Abraham was asked to Sacrifice his ONLY child, that's a notable point! Both sides agreed that Abraham was married to Sarah and they didn't have a child until their old-age, Abraham had what it takes to marry another woman and people of that time can marry more than one wife if the man pleases to. So what stopped Abraham from taking another wife all this while that Sarah had remain barren? Why did he waited until this same Sarah made the move to give Abraham her own PERSONAL female slave to mate with? Is God's promise to Abraham for an heir rightly fulfilled if the child should come NOT through his legitimate wife that he loved and cherish so much?
Well it was written in the Bible that the one to be sacrificed is Abraham's 'ONLY child', but the Bible also say by that time Haggai has taken Ismael away even though Abraham hesitated to let go of the child,he never had anything to do with Ishmael afterwards. So Isaac could become his ONLY child as Abraham had no whereabouts of the other child.
Granted, there may be other books relating the same story but are they well documented in chronological order till the time of Jesus or Muhammad like the Jewish history book[Bible]?

Maximus69:
OK! So Abraham had Ishmael first and 13 years later the legitimate wife bear Isaac.
Now let's look critically at those EVENTS and PRACTICES to sought out the fabrications that either the Jews or Arabs may have scrupulously shipped in the HISTORY!
Abraham was asked to Sacrifice his ONLY child, that's a notable point! Both sides agreed that Abraham was married to Sarah and they didn't have a child until their old-age, Abraham had what it takes to marry another woman and people of that time can marry more than one wife if the man pleases to. So what stopped Abraham from taking another wife all this while that Sarah had remain barren? Why did he waited until this same Sarah made the move to give Abraham her own PERSONAL female slave to mate with? Is God's promise to Abraham for an heir rightly fulfilled if the child should come NOT through his legitimate wife that he loved and cherish so much?
Well it was written in the Bible that the one to be sacrificed is Abraham's 'ONLY child', but the Bible also say by that time Haggai has taken Ismael away even though Abraham hesitated to let go of the child,he never had anything to do with Ishmael afterwards. So Isaac could become his ONLY child as Abraham had no whereabouts of the other child.
Granted, there may be other books relating the same story but are they well documented in chronological order till the time of Jesus or Muhammad like the Jewish history book[Bible]?

My Friend, the Promise on an Heir was made to Abraham and not Sarah. Abraham was the one inspired and not Sarah. Abraham was the one who defied his Father and his people in Ur. He it was that God Promised that thru him the whole world will be bless and not Sarah. Yes, he was married to her no doubt but the promise was his. So, let us not be labour the obvious. The Promise was that he that come from your loin, that same will be your heir.

And no Hagar was not a Bondwoman as has been uselessly said, she was given to Abraham when He(Abraham) went we Sarah to Egypt. And the King wanted to take away Sarah from Abraham. The King was struck with Leprosy I think and when he entreated Abraham, he was healed. The King gave gifts to Abraham and part of that gift was a Princess in Pharaoh house. (Islamic Tradition) the Jews would rather want the Bondwoman tag to stick.

I ask you, Abraham was a Nomad. Him and his wife and brother Lot, so how could they have gone to Egypt a Land with a Powerful King and established system at that Time and take a Slave of a Citizen of that Nation? Hagar was a gift. That is the usage of people in that time.

Your question about God not granting Sarah Offsprings all the while, that I can not answer because I don't know what is in God's mind or the reason for it. Only Him can answer that.

In the Book of the Hindus where the episode of Abraham was mentioned, it is not done according chronology but it was stated explicitly the Sacrificial Son and Abraham other offspring. And this Book has been in the hands of the Hindus thousand of Years before Jesus or Muhammad preached.

Lukuluku69:
My Friend, the Promise on an Heir was made to Abraham and not Sarah. Abraham was the one inspired and not Sarah. Abraham was the one who defied his Father and his people in Ur. He it was that God Promised that thru him the whole world will be bless and not Sarah. Yes, he was married to her no doubt but the promise was his. So, let us not be labour the obvious. The Promise was that he that come from your loin, that same will be your heir.

And no Hagar was not a Bondwoman as has been uselessly said, she was given to Abraham when He(Abraham) went we Sarah to Egypt. And the King wanted to take away Sarah from Abraham. The King was struck with Leprosy I think and when he entreated Abraham, he was healed. The King gave gifts to Abraham and part of that gift was a Princess in Pharaoh house. (Islamic Tradition) the Jews would rather want the Bondwoman tag to stick.

I ask you, Abraham was a Nomad. Him and his wife and brother Lot, so how could they have gone to Egypt a Land with a Powerful King and established system at that Time and take a Slave of a Citizen of that Nation? Hagar was a gift. That is the usage of people in that time.

Your question about God not granting Sarah Offsprings all the while, that I can not answer because I don't know what is in God's mind or the reason for it. Only Him can answer that.

In the Book of the Hindus where the episode of Abraham was mentioned, it is not done according chronology but it was stated explicitly the Sacrificial Son and Abraham other offspring. And this Book has been in the hands of the Hindus thousand of Years before Jesus or Muhammad preached.

We both promised not to take any of these personal or emotional since it is the history of people to whom none of us is related! So let's weigh matters from both side without being biased or supportive of any side!
My questions again:
¤Abraham was well to do,he had all it takes to marry extra wife,Sarah couldn't stop him because people by then can choose to be a polygamist, Sarah has given him no child, he is growing older by the day. Yet he refused to take another wife, WHY?
¤Sarah demanded that Haggai and her son[Abraham's firstborn] be driven out because of her own child[second born], was Abraham afraid of Sarah or see her as the ONLY love of his life?
As for any other books that's not in CHRONOLOGICAL order,it can't be taken seriously since people can fabricate stories to support their culture and since they know about documentation doesn't mean they are INSPIRED. They can hear stories of good people and add it to their history to make their progenies believe their culture is rich! Since Abraham wasn't a king before leaving his family,Why are those people he left including his story in their book? What led to mentioning his first child which he never got when he was still residing in their midst? Why can't the story continue if truly they know the facts?
Sir,we are now in the jet age and our brains are working faster than that of those ancient people, we can only succumb to their writings if we found honesty in their documents!

@Lukuluku
This case could be really complicating but not difficult for unbiased intellectuals who can remained neutral on the matter!
Jews claims the Almighty God chose their race,from Abraham,Isaac and Jacob and so far so good all the renown prophets ever were Israelites.
They claim that the promise of God's blessing on all other tribes on earth will be dispensed through their race and Jesus came from Israel.
They claim that it's only when they offended their God that there is problems and ever since then history records so many nations conquering and enslaving them.
They recorded not only when they did what is right but also their disobedience, stubbornness, faithlessness, idolatry, sexual promiscuity and all bad things that normal writers would omit.
If anyone now tells me they hide anything,my question will be 'what exactly could that be?'
As for racial prejudice, Islam can't be left out because there is so many signs that the religion belongs to the Arabs. Unlike Christianity
Muslims uses the Arabic language in their worship worldwide and yet there is fierce criticism and division amongst them!
Everything that the Romans included in their worship is present in Islam!
¤Use of rosary during prayer.
¤Holy women covering head.
¤Prayer in language of propagators.
¤Catholics~Crusades/Muslims~Jihad.
¤Both fully participate in politics.
¤Pilgrimage.
¤Holidays and Festivals.
¤Holy ones avoids alcoholic beverages.
¤Bowing: Catholics~Images/Muslims~Kahba
Just what i could remember for now,so if someone didn't copy from another,why so much similarities?
Catholics started in the year 200 a.d and Muhammad was born 570 a.d, please isn't it possible that he simply copied all of these as he travels along with Kadijat his lady boss who later became his wife?

Maximus69:
We both promised not to take any of these personal or emotional since it is the history of people to whom none of us is related! So let's weigh matters from both side without being biased or supportive of any side!
My questions again:
¤Abraham was well to do,he had all it takes to marry extra wife,Sarah couldn't stop him because people by then can choose to be a polygamist, Sarah has given him no child, he is growing older by the day. Yet he refused to take another wife, WHY?
¤Sarah demanded that Haggai and her son[Abraham's firstborn] be driven out because of her own child[second born], was Abraham afraid of Sarah or see her as the ONLY love of his life?
As for any other books that's not in CHRONOLOGICAL order,it can't be taken seriously since people can fabricate stories to support their culture and since they know about documentation doesn't mean they are INSPIRED. They can hear stories of good people and add it to their history to make their progenies believe their culture is rich! Since Abraham wasn't a king before leaving his family,Why are those people he left including his story in their book? What led to mentioning his first child which he never got when he was still residing in their midst? Why can't the story continue if truly they know the facts?
Sir,we are now in the jet age and our brains are working faster than that of those ancient people, we can only succumb to their writings if we found honesty in their documents!

Hmmm. You know what? Abraham lived for One Hundred and Thirty Six Years according to the Bible yet the Story detailing that Life is not more than 20 pages plus or minus repetition in the story. What am I trying to say? A life that Rich ought to have add more pages. Who wrote the Abraham story in Genesis? It is generally believed that Moses wrote Genesis. Note the word believed. Scholars are doubting it now for the Singular fact that Moses couldn't have written his own Obituary. So, that leaves another postulation that Moses could have written some or the Book Moses wrote could have suffered at the hands of the Scribe.

To say, Abraham belonged to the House of Israel alone and them alone should tell his stories is wrong simply because he was the Father of Other Seven Sons. Are you saying Abraham never bothered for them to experience what he experienced. Remember they were his Sons. For anyone to have had Six sons for you is no Joke. What am I driving at? They have also have a claim to his stories as any of the other Son.

The Bible records that Abraham gave gifts and send these son towards the South where they settled and they were Princes among the people they dwelt with. Remember that at Abraham's Burial Ishmael was said to have been present. This simply means their must have been regular contact between Father and Sons.

To the issue of Abraham not taking another wife when Sarah could have one till he was 86, we are talking about a man who was inspired and called a Friend of God! You have no idea what beautiful Patience and fortitude and hope these Souls can have.

As regards the other Books I mentioned that tell the story of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar, you can't even recognize them in that Book! He was not called Abraham, neither was Sarah called Sarah but they were described with their attributes and only people who look out for Prophecy can recognize them.

I will search my Books now and post some of these stories and mind you the Faith that has this stories is reputed to have been the Most Ancients of Faiths. The Hindus. So, allegation of corruption/copying is totally out of the question.

Lukuluku69:
Hmmm. You know what? Abraham lived for One Hundred and Thirty Six Years according to the Bible yet the Story detailing that Life is not more than 20 pages plus or minus repetition in the story. What am I trying to say? A life that Rich ought to have add more pages. Who wrote the Abraham story in Genesis? It is generally believed that Moses wrote Genesis. Note the word believed. Scholars are doubting it now for the Singular fact that Moses couldn't have written his own Obituary. So, that leaves another postulation that Moses could have written some or the Book Moses wrote could have suffered at the hands of the Scribe.

To say, Abraham belonged to the House of Israel alone and them alone should tell his stories is wrong simply because he was the Father of Other Seven Sons. Are you saying Abraham never bothered for them to experience what he experienced. Remember they were his Sons. For anyone to have had Six sons for you is no Joke. What am I driving at? They have also have a claim to his stories as any of the other Son.

The Bible records that Abraham gave gifts and send these son towards the South where they settled and they were Princes among the people they dwelt with. Remember that at Abraham's Burial Ishmael was said to have been present. This simply means their must have been regular contact between Father and Sons.

To the issue of Abraham not taking another wife when Sarah could have one till he was 86, we are talking about a man who was inspired and called a Friend of God! You have no idea what beautiful Patience and fortitude and hope these Souls can have.

As regards the other Books I mentioned that tell the story of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar, you can't even recognize them in that Book! He was not called Abraham, neither was Sarah called Sarah but they were described with their attributes and only people who look out for Prophecy can recognize them.

I will search my Books now and post some of these stories and mind you the Faith that has this stories is reputed to have been the Most Ancients of Faiths. The Hindus. So, allegation of corruption/copying is totally out of the question.

But whatever you are saying about Abraham was all written by this same Moses. So why taking some and rejecting some?
Moreover Moses wrote five books for sure but the final part of the book must have been completed by the copyists after they couldn't found him! Deuteronomy 34:1-12
I'm not disputing whether Abraham's other sons could have heard stories About him but if not well documented like the Bible,then whatever is found therein could only become a reference NOT superseding the one that is well documented!
You're a Yoruba man,if there is dispute over the ownership of any landed property in ancient times, what the judges will depend on as proof of ownership is ability to tell in DETAILS the story of the land. You can't claim ownership if you don't have all the details yet counteracting the one who is able to present all the details in CHRONOLOGICAL order!

TATIME:
But whatever you are saying about Abraham was all written by this same Moses. So why taking some and rejecting some?
Moreover Moses wrote five books for sure but the final part of the book must have been completed by the copyists after they couldn't found him! Deuteronomy 34:1-12
I'm not disputing whether Abraham's other sons could have heard stories About him but if not well documented like the Bible,then whatever is found therein could only become a reference NOT superseding the one that is well documented!
You're a Yoruba man,if there is dispute over the ownership of any landed property in ancient times, what the judges will depend on as proof of ownership is ability to tell in DETAILS the story of the land. You can't claim ownership if you don't have all the details yet counteracting the one who is able to present all the details in CHRONOLOGICAL order!

You are right, Documents supersedes Oral evidences in a Court of Law. But Documents can be falsified too. Can't they? The fact that the Western World committed their History to writings does not mean Cultures or people that did not don't have a History. A falsified Document and an Orally presented evidence are of the same value when you don't have something concrete to touch or work on.

Their is a Satire on evidence in a Nollywood Film by Baba Wande's Ti Oluwa Ni Ile. Ownership a land was in dispute and a certain man manufactured Stories to back up someone's claim to the Land. The Land was given to them but the deity that was worship on that Land went after those involved. My point? Documents can be altered.

The Quran Says that's the Case with the Bible. So, we are back to where we were. Christians will not take any evidence from the Quran, in that case, issues become parallel lines that can't meet.

TATIME:
But whatever you are saying about Abraham was all written by this same Moses. So why taking some and rejecting some?
Moreover Moses wrote five books for sure but the final part of the book must have been completed by the copyists after they couldn't found him! Deuteronomy 34:1-12
I'm not disputing whether Abraham's other sons could have heard stories About him but if not well documented like the Bible,then whatever is found therein could only become a reference NOT superseding the one that is well documented!
You're a Yoruba man,if there is dispute over the ownership of any landed property in ancient times, what the judges will depend on as proof of ownership is ability to tell in DETAILS the story of the land. You can't claim ownership if you don't have all the details yet counteracting the one who is able to present all the details in CHRONOLOGICAL order!

Arabs are the problem here.
They're trying to make everyone believe their book and they look for support from all sides,yet they point accusing fingers to Jews claiming those ones fabricate a lot of things but when it comes to their Quran, they can even quote anything even what they termed as fabrication just to support Islam.
An example is this hijab of a thing,a imam in my area wanted to support it from the Bible so he quoted 1Corinthians 11 But he has forgotten that he himself said 'whatever Paul write should be removed from the Bible'.
So when i asked him to give another quotation he got provoked saying 'what i quoted is in the Bible' so i told him 'if we're to go by your word,that part should have been removed because it is part of Paul's letters'
He couldn't say a word but left angrily!

Maximus69:
Arabs are the problem here.
They're trying to make everyone believe their book and they look for support from all sides,yet they point accusing fingers to Jews claiming those ones fabricate a lot of things but when it comes to their Quran, they can even quote anything even what they termed as fabrication just to support Islam.
An example is this hijab of a thing,a imam in my area wanted to support it from the Bible so he quoted 1Corinthians 11 But he has forgotten that he himself said 'whatever Paul write should be removed from the Bible'.
So when i asked him to give another quotation he got provoked saying 'what i quoted is in the Bible' so i told him 'if we're to go by your word,that part should have been removed because it is part of Paul's letters'
He couldn't say a word but left angrily!

Let me rephrase your opening statement. Arabs are not the Problem Muslims are. You see, the Quran talked about the a certain Book given to Abraham, given to Moses, given to David, given to Solomon and given to Jesus. And other Books given to the Nations and some other Book given to the Tribes. In the Quran we are told that these Books talked about Worship of God, to follow His commandments and be good to fellow Creature. The Quran also teaches that in these Books mention can be found of the Prophet of Islam.

Also, the Quran accused the People of the Book of picking what suits them and leaving out commands they feel they can't keep. That in Islam is disbelieve in itself. Once your Messenger commands a thing, a Muslim response should be " We hear and we obey"

Against this backdrop, Muslims often look for similarities in these Books and any deviation from their own Book they don't take. So, the man that quoted Paul's Letter was acting true to what his Book says. As for Paul Letter being part of the Bible, I don't believe in Paul that doesn't not mean When Paul paraphrases Scriptures or quotes from Isaiah I should make references to it since I can confirm/double check on Isaiah myself. I will use that Scripture but if I search and find non, it is no Scripture for me.

Do you understand it?

Lukuluku69:
Let me rephrase your opening statement. Arabs are not the Problem Muslims are. You see, the Quran talked about the a certain Book given to Abraham, given to Moses, given to David, given to Solomon and given to Jesus. And other Books given to the Nations and some other Book given to the Tribes. In the Quran we are told that these Books talked about Worship of God, to follow His commandments and be good to fellow Creature. The Quran also teaches that in these Books mention can be found of the Prophet of Islam.

Also, the Quran accused the People of the Book of picking what suits them and leaving out commands they feel they can't keep. That in Islam is disbelieve in itself. Once your Messenger commands a thing, a Muslim response should be " We hear and we obey"

Against this backdrop, Muslims often look for similarities in these Books and any deviation from their own Book they don't take. So, the man that quoted Paul's Letter was acting true to what his Book says. As for Paul Letter being part of the Bible, I don't believe in Paul that doesn't not mean When Paul paraphrases Scriptures or quotes from Isaiah I should make references to it since I can confirm/double check on Isaiah myself. I will use that Scripture but if I search and find non, it is no Scripture for me.

Do you understand it?

All the nations of the earth have so much in common when it comes to worship and standards.
Only the Israelites has a totally different system.
If you want to know the reason,i will tell you and back my discovery with History,Events and Practices of all these nations.
The Bible has answers to life's most impotant questions that NO other book on this planet can dare!
If you want to try those questions i'll forward them to you now,let's see if you can adequately answer those questions.
¤Where did God create humans and for what purpose?
¤What happens to us at death?
¤Where are our dead loved ones now?
¤Why various contradicting religious ideas?
¤Who are demons?
¤Where do they come from and what do they want?
¤How can we find true happiness?

Shepherd00:
Which God works in miraculous ways? Allah, Muhammad or YWHW? Becos they are all called gods doesn't mean they are the same deity.

Talking about Miracles, which are Allah's or Muhammad's miraculous ways and deeds on earth?

"For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens" (1 Chronicles 16:26).

It is only Jesus that works in miraculous ways, all other gods like the Watchtower organisation and Allah are idols who work no miracles. Jesus is Lord!

Maximus69:
If JWs knock on their doors to help them understand the Bible,they'll object but now a Muslim is educating a supposed Christian from the Bible a book he thought he's going out to preach and teach others!
So funny!

Before you begin to knock on people's doors, can you tell us any miraculous encounter that ever happened in the history of your organisation?

OLAADEGBU:
Former 'Prince Of 'ISIS' Turns To Christ After A God Dream: 'I Saw A Love That Didn't Exist In Islam'
03-16-2019
Ericah Jones

A "Prince of ISIS" has done what many would consider unthinkable, making a commitment to turn away from his horrifying past to unite with a new way of life through Jesus Christ.

The former ISIS leader, whose identity has been disguised for his safety, is being called Mohammad. The miraculous circumstances that led to his transformation were reported by Dr. Michael Youssef's Leading The Way ministry.

Since the launch of its Christian satellite TV station, THE KINGDOM SAT, Leading The Way is working to touch "some of the most unreachable lives in the Arabic world," including people like this notorious 'Prince of ISIS'.

'Many Are Having Dreams and Visions of Jesus': ISIS Sickened Muslims in Iraq, Now They're Turning to Christ

A video testimony from the ministry reported that one of their follow-up coordinators named Peter received a call several years ago from a man who pleaded to meet with him.

The man on the other end of the phone with Peter turned out to be a spiritual leader in the terrorist group. Even though Peter knew it was possible that Mohammad may try to kill him, he believed God was leading him to go ahead with the meeting.

In a reenacted testimony, Mohammad opened up about his dramatic shift from Islam to Christianity. "One day, somebody asked me why I am a Muslim," he said. Scrambling for answers, Mohammad began to search in the Quran, Hadith, and Sunnah.

"I wanted to find proof and evidence that Allah exists and Islam is right... I found nothing," he said.

But that wasn't the initial reason why Mohammad met with Peter. He says he had just wanted to kill Peter, but during their first encounter, Peter boldly spoke the Word of Jesus over the ISIS leader.

The meeting did not end on a positive note. Mohammad became frustrated and struggled to grasp what Peter had told him about who God really is.

Then the two met for a second time.

Charisma News reports that Leading The Way's senior director of ministry outreach Maged Atalla explained what happened in the next meeting. "The second time they met, Mohammad told Peter he had a dream and saw an envelope dripping blood with great fragrance," he said.

Peter explained that the dream was God telling him that blood had to be shed for the forgiveness of sins.

"Peter told him, 'Jesus is sending you a message and you need to give your life to Him.' At that moment he surrendered his life to Jesus. Mohammed then told Peter that the first time they met he had a knife in his pocket and wanted to kill him on the spot, but something prevented him from doing this," said Atalla.

Now Mohammad's burning life questions have been answered and his life dramatically turned around.

After repenting, Mohammad experienced a peace he had never felt before.

"I saw a love that didn't exist in Islam," he said.

Because of his regular meetings with Peter, this so-called 'Prince of ISIS' accepted Jesus Christ into his life and began his journey as a Christian.

"The true book, in my opinion, is the Bible," declared Mohammad. "I found the truth in Jesus Christ. And because I have surrendered my life to the Lord, I am certain He will never forsake me."

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/march/former-prince-of-isis-turns-to-christ-after-a-god-dream-i-saw-a-love-that-didnt-exist-in-islam?

The devil and his cohorts are mourning over the testimony of this former captive hence you will see his servants trying to divert attention away from the OP.

Lukuluku, whenever you're ready let's continue the discussion!

Maximus69:
All the nations of the earth have so much in common when it comes to worship and standards.
Only the Israelites has a totally different system.
If you want to know the reason,i will tell you and back my discovery with History,Events and Practices of all these nations.
The Bible has answers to life's most impotant questions that NO other book on this planet can dare!
If you want to try those questions i'll forward them to you now,let's see if you can adequately answer those questions.
¤Where did God create humans and for what purpose?
¤What happens to us at death?
¤Where are our dead loved ones now?
¤Why various contradicting religious ideas?
¤Who are demons?
¤Where do they come from and what do they want?
¤How can we find true happiness?

OLAADEGBU:
"For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens" (1 Chronicles 16:26).

It is only Jesus that works in miraculous ways, all other gods like the Watchtower organisation and Allah are idols who work no miracles. Jesus is Lord!

Forever true.

Maximus69:
Lukuluku, whenever you're ready let's continue the discussion!

Thank you Maximus for competently defending God's word!
But the greatest thanks goes to Jehovah the God of divine wisdom. Though critics of the TRUTH may not notice what you just did but right thinking persons following this thread can SEE where true wisdom comes from.
I'm sure by now Lukuluku69 will not only realise that JWs have knowledge but also know that the Bible is the ONLY authentic source of Godly wisdom!
What you should have add is why all the nations of the earth are inclined towards worship. The Bible made it clear that some angels left their assignment,came down to have sex with women,God banished them from further contacts and information,the decided to oppose everything Godly,God chose a race to enlighten people about the whole system,the falling angels stood against whatever God says. That is how every other nations got their inspirations from the demons, but since these demons only wanted to be destroyed along with mankind,they give their worshipers no virtuous standards so God separated the Israelites by entering a covenant with them through the Mosaic laws. This is what makes the nation of Israel totally different from all other nations without laws!
Arabs only wanted to recover their dominance over all other races, the first four world powers were Egypt, Assyria[south Iran], Babylon[Iraq], Medo~Persia [north Iran formed allies with orients]
All these nations are Arabic speaking countries today, so they are planning to dominate all other tribes by using the Roman's strategy. They noticed that of all those nations that ruled in the past, Roman's lasted longer due to the power of RELIGION. So they are planning to takeover world power by pushing Islam towards all nations, but western world have captured them in their plan therefore those ones gave Saudi Arabia all the prominence needed and since Saudi is not part of those ancient powers,they're contented with the western rule. That is why countries like Iraq and Iran are at logger heads with Saudi Arabia.
Of course if they're able to gain what they want,there will still be trouble among them because Muhammad the key to their quest is neither from Egypt ,Iran or Iraq, and these are those clamoring for a return to power. That is why there is fierce opposition and division within Islam itself!
Thanks anyway for showing all these church goers the REAL meaning of what is recorded at Isaiah 54:17. If Lukuluku69 still feels that Islam has anything tangible to offer,let him answer those questions using any means whether the Quran or any other so called inspired writing. Praise Jehovah!

TATIME:
Thank you Maximus for competently defending God's word!
But the greatest thanks goes to Jehovah the God of divine wisdom. Though critics of the TRUTH may not notice what you just did but right thinking persons following this thread can SEE where true wisdom comes from.
I'm sure by now Lukuluku69 will not only realise that JWs have knowledge but also know that the Bible is the ONLY authentic source of Godly wisdom!
What you should have add is why all the nations of the earth are inclined towards worship. The Bible made it clear that some angels left their assignment,came down to have sex with women,God banished them from further contacts and information,the decided to oppose everything Godly,God chose a race to enlighten people about the whole system,the falling angels stood against whatever God says. That is how every other nations got their inspirations from the demons, but since these demons only wanted to be destroyed along with mankind,they give their worshipers no virtuous standards so God separated the Israelites by entering a covenant with them through the Mosaic laws. This is what makes the nation of Israel totally different from all other nations without laws!
Arabs only wanted to recover their dominance over all other races, the first four world powers were Egypt, Assyria[south Iran], Babylon[Iraq], Medo~Persia [north Iran formed allies with orients]
All these nations are Arabic speaking countries today, so they are planning to dominate all other tribes by using the Roman's strategy. They noticed that of all those nations that ruled in the past, Roman's lasted longer due to the power of RELIGION. So they are planning to takeover world power by pushing Islam towards all nations, but western world have captured them in their plan therefore those ones gave Saudi Arabia all the prominence needed and since Saudi is not part of those ancient powers,they're contented with the western rule. That is why countries like Iraq and Iran are at logger heads with Saudi Arabia.
Of course if they're able to gain what they want,there will still be trouble among them because Muhammad the key to their quest is neither from Egypt ,Iran or Iraq, and these are those clamoring for a return to power. That is why there is fierce opposition and division within Islam itself!
Thanks anyway for showing all these church goers the REAL meaning of what is recorded at Isaiah 54:17. If Lukuluku69 still feels that Islam has anything tangible to offer,let him answer those questions using any means whether the Quran or any other so called inspired writing. Praise Jehovah!

NO! NO!! NO!!! Sir, i will continue to say 'Jehovah's Witnesses,thank you!'

So you mean all through the genocide the Muslims remained in their houses and mosques as such no one could enter and kill them?Hope you watched the documentary very well, their most concern before killing was tribe not religion. Please give an answer to the question. Why must you kill someone of same religion but of different sect.

Lukuluku69:
Let me tell you a story. A True life Story. 1994. Rwanda.

Then the Christian Population in Rwanda was put at between 70%-75% of the Population with the Muslims put at 12%-15% with other claiming other Faith or no Faith at all. Then there was a problem, Hutus and Tutsi were fighting for the control of the Country Politically. Then push came to shove, in 30 Days, 1 Million Souls perished. Guess what? The Muslim 12%-15% came out unscathed! Do you know why? The Christians have been taught from Childhood that if you enter a Muslim home, you run mad, touch the Quran, you run mad, enter Mosque you will run mad. But his/her Christian brother and sister, he slaughtered mercilessly all because of things that will perish.

If you Christians study your history, I swear to God, you won't for a moment in your life criticize Islam and Muslims.

The case is buried now! He gave so many instances about people killing people and to any right thinking person,there is no justifiable motive for killing someone whether on ethnic or religious grounds!
Noteworthy is the Rwandan case between Hutus and Tutsis,the whole world heard it back then but so many details i later read in books published by the Watchtower Bible and tract society[Jehovah's Witnesses]
The JWs also accuse Catholics for not been able to quench the killings as 75% of Rwandans back then were Catholics. I think what matters most is the failure of religion to stop adherents from taking up weapons against their fellow man!
There are religious groups teaching the members not to carry weapons for any reason whatsoever but what baffles me is that Jesus clearly forbid the use of weapons for his own followers and Isaiah has prophesied that a time will come when true worshipers will STOP carrying weapons and also STOP recruiting people for war[ Matthew 26:52/Isaiah 2:2-4] Yet some people claiming Christians are still carrying weapons!

TommyAnthem:
So you mean all through the genocide the Muslims remained in their houses and mosques as such no one could enter and kill them?Hope you watched the documentary very well, their most concern before killing was tribe not religion. Please give an answer to the question. Why must you kill someone of same religion but of different sect.

Are you using this to justify killing in Islam?

Lukuluku69:
The Crusaders? Read up on them oo. And it is not The Lord's way to wage war? You must be a Learner to say that. Read how Yahweh commanded Moses, Joshua and host of other to completely Kill EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING Moving and breathing in Israel March to the promised Land.

These arsenals in the hands of these countries is a divine way of checkmating mad Islam, just imagine a scenario where the reverse is the case i.e Islamic nations having such
arsenals at their disposal, I doubt
if you and I will be enjoying the free world we have today without coercion.

Lukuluku69:
I know you would say this and I told my 9 year old son sitting beside me what your reply would be like. After showing him your response, he is still laughing. Christians don't fight wars? The only Christians I know that don't fight wars are the Jehovah Witness. They don't fight under the banner of Earthly kingdoms or fly the banner of any Prince. That I know. You see, this deception of yours is something honed a long time by you folks. When it suits you, you define who Christians are and who they are not. It is a deception you have perfected. Tell me, when Europeans were warring during the "World Wars" they denounce Christianity or what? Please take any Book on the Spanish Conquest of the Americas and you will weep if their is any Humanity in you. They were Christians and they never denounce the Faith. But like I said. It is a deception that you guys are Masters of. In the World today, it is estimated that there are over 25,000 Nuclear War heads in the world. Only 6-7 War heads are in the Hand of Muslims(Pakistan) another 15-20 in the hands of Hindus(India) and some 200 or so in the Hands of China. Israel is estimated to hold about 300, the remaining are in the hands of America (about 15,000-17,000), same goes for Russia, Great Britain, France, Germany. If it suit them, America, Great Britain, France and Russia are not Christians but what?

Oga you are Learner.

@Lukuluku69, what do you have to say about this...because according to you, the Quran is faultless.

As recently as 1993 the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz declared "The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." In a televised debate aired on Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007), Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd also declared that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it. As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this. While many have attempted to explain away this oddity, they prey on their listeners ignorance. There is no escaping the fact that, according to the Qur'an, the earth is flat.

@Lukuluku
Your quoran talks about the sun setting in muddy spring every evening..Surah 18:86
Please, what kind of a perfect book of divine origin will make such a monumental blunder.

That is just one story from you, I can conveniently reel out dozens of similar events perpetuated in the name of Islam across the world, your co believers "BOKO HARAM" is here with us, let's use them as case study for easy understanding instead of using far away places. And for your information, the Rwandans "Christians" you are referring to have realised their mistakes, made amendments, reconciled and have decided to forge ahead. Today, Rwanda is among the fastest growing economy in Africa. Now take a look at Islamic states that have one conflict or the other, they all exhibit similar symptoms "VENDETTA" why is reconciliation a herculean task for them, their crisis is endless, it goes on and on for decades, their bitterness is out of this world, I will rightly say their bane is unforgiveness. I have said it before and I still repeat it again, there is a fundamental flaw in Islam. The inspirations they get from their so called holy book is not good for mankind.

Lukuluku69:
Let me tell you a story. A True life Story. 1994. Rwanda.

Then the Christian Population in Rwanda was put at between 70%-75% of the Population with the Muslims put at 12%-15% with other claiming other Faith or no Faith at all. Then there was a problem, Hutus and Tutsi were fighting for the control of the Country Politically. Then push came to shove, in 30 Days, 1 Million Souls perished. Guess what? The Muslim 12%-15% came out unscathed! Do you know why? The Christians have been taught from Childhood that if you enter a Muslim home, you run mad, touch the Quran, you run mad, enter Mosque you will run mad. But his/her Christian brother and sister, he slaughtered mercilessly all because of things that will perish.

If you Christians study your history, I swear to God, you won't for a moment in your life criticize Islam and Muslims.

Shepherd00:
Forever true.

Amen.

TommyAnthem:
@Lukuluku69, what do you have to say about this...because according to you, the Quran is faultless.

As recently as 1993 the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz declared "The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." In a televised debate aired on Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007), Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd also declared that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it. As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this. While many have attempted to explain away this oddity, they prey on their listeners ignorance. There is no escaping the fact that, according to the Qur'an, the earth is flat.

Would you be so kind to provide links to these videos?

Muhammad al Idrisi, Muslim geographer was one of the first to describe the earth as round. He drew a very detailed atlas describing this. This was in the early 12th century. Christians kicked against it. It wasn't till about a century later that they reluctantly agreed. Some Christians today still think the earth is flat and scientists saying it's not a all part of a big conspiracy . They have a website and all, flatearters.com or so.

Those verses you poured out are not talking about the planet earth, but earth as in the ground we walk on. The earth was named as a planet by recent scientists so verses revealed about the earth 1400 years ago couldn't have been talking about the planet.

The Qur'an does talk about the day and night rolling into each other through the movements of the sun. Also says the sun is not stationary, it also revolves in its orbit. Scientists proved that very recently. The Qur'an states that the universe is constantly expanding, something astronomers recently discovered. I could go on and on, but I gat work to do jare

TommyAnthem:
@Lukuluku69, what do you have to say about this...because according to you, the Quran is faultless.

As recently as 1993 the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz declared "The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." In a televised debate aired on Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007), Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd also declared that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it. As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this. While many have attempted to explain away this oddity, they prey on their listeners ignorance. There is no escaping the fact that, according to the Qur'an, the earth is flat.

Don't bother with the links, I've gone searching about the two people you posted.

I read on Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, I didn't see anywhere he said whoever claims the earth is round must be punished. He did disagree with the University of Medinah regarding the shape of the earth. You neglected to mention that the scientists of the University of Medinah were all Muslims too.

Same with your 'Researcher on Astronomy' Fadhel Al-Sa'd. The televised debate you spoke one sidedly about was between him and a Muslim physicist. The guy is not a scientist, but someone who claimed to have insight into astronomy. You seem excited to talk about the ones that goofed but conviniently left out the ones who were accurate. Why are you people like this?

TommyAnthem:
That is just one story from you, I can conveniently reel out dozens of similar events perpetuated in the name of Islam across the world, your co believers "BOKO HARAM" is here with us, let's use them as case study for easy understanding instead of using far away places. And for your information, the Rwandans "Christians" you are referring to have realised their mistakes, made amendments, reconciled and have decided to forge ahead. Today, Rwanda is among the fastest growing economy in Africa. Now take a look at Islamic states that have one conflict or the other, they all exhibit similar symptoms "VENDETTA" why is reconciliation a herculean task for them, their crisis is endless, it goes on and on for decades, their bitterness is out of this world, I will rightly say their bane is unforgiveness. I have said it before and I still repeat it again, there is a fundamental flaw in Islam. The inspirations they get from their so called holy book is not good for mankind.

The Rwandan story is just one of the many stories in the world of how you Christians are peace loving even to your own brethren. Good that the Rwandan Christians realized their mistakes and have made amendment but while they were on that Rampage, what was the Holy Spirit doing to stop the Carnage? In 30 days, over 800,000 Souls perished.

As for Boko Haram, they too can realize their Mistake and lay down their Arms, can't they?

Islam has a fundamental Flaw? You have repeated that so much that it has become your reality.

TommyAnthem:
@Lukuluku69, what do you have to say about this...because according to you, the Quran is faultless.

As recently as 1993 the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz declared "The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." In a televised debate aired on Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007), Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd also declared that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it. As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this. While many have attempted to explain away this oddity, they prey on their listeners ignorance. There is no escaping the fact that, according to the Qur'an, the earth is flat.

Read the Quran and stop listening to what one Sheik said. The Quran and the Hadeeth are the Source not what one Sheik said. There are hundred of thousands of Video Clips saying the Earth is "Egg Shaped" but you only look for one particular Sheik to buttress your views.