₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Hmmm,
Ability to think
Well if you've gotten that i think you're more than self sufficient so that you'll be out there helping those who feels the need to share in your knowledge and ability.
NOT just arguing to prove the shallowness of the ability of your Papa and Mama to use their brains!
Yet they're the very ones who discovered the JW as the one and only group practicing pure worship.
Why not first present a better performing group so that people can see the difference instead of parading your Papa and Mama as fools, whereas there is no better group elsewhere!

So you never knew that all his questioning is not to fetch facts but to refute whatever will make him submissive to any group?
If you can read minds, you'll notice that all his argument is centered on just one point: NOBODY OR GROUP OF PERSONS IS ADEQUATELY QUALIFIED TO TEACH OTHERS GOD'S WORD!
All he is trying to say is that if Jesus truly exists and he must believe in him, then that Jesus should communicate DIRECTLY with him!
So Paul's word at Hebrews 13:7-8 means nothing to him, if there is going to be any kind of submission from him, Jesus shouldn't make use of imperfect humans like himself as in those whose mistakes he can see!

TATIME:
So you never knew that all his questioning is not to fetch facts but to refute whatever will make him submissive to any group?
If you can read minds, you'll notice that all his argument is centered on just one point: NOBODY OR GROUP OF PERSONS IS ADEQUATELY QUALIFIED TO TEACH OTHERS GOD'S WORD!
All he is trying to say is that if Jesus truly exists and he must believe in him, then that Jesus should communicate DIRECTLY with him!
So Paul's word at Hebrews 13:7-8 means nothing to him, if there is going to be any kind of submission from him, Jesus shouldn't make use of imperfect humans like himself as in those whose mistakes he can see!

Hmmm,
You know i only had the experience of military intelligence i'm not a genius in mind reading. But with what you said, i can now perceive the concept.
It's not all about fact finding, it's about submission to humans taking the lead in what is agreed upon, so they don't want to agree on anything in order to avoid SUBMISSION. Hebrew 13:7
Thanks Sir!

But please Tatime, why can't they just walk away like the atheists does? Since it's obvious they're only against leadership!

Good Job well done

Maximus69:
But please Tatime, why can't they just walk away like the atheists does? Since it's obvious they're only against leadership!

Paul called them 'SONS of disobedience'!
Take note that they're not just walking away as in retreating or surrending according to Paul, but they're bent on carrying others along in their uncertain journey! Ephesians 5:6

@ rottennaija

Concerning the documents the information pasted earlier, the point you are trying to make is in line with the little I want to add here after reading the material, the fact the TYPE and ANTITYPE method of bible application has been dropped and no longer in use by the Jws organization support your viewpoints and that raised in the material cited.

Do they forget to tell it's adherents that the teaching concerning " THE OTHER SHEEP ", " GREAT CROWD "two CLASSES of CHRISTIAN" non-anointed Christian" all got it's root from the use of applying TYPES and ANTITYPES?

An highlight from the material here......

Many years ago, our publications stated that such faithful men and women as Deborah, Elihu, Jephthah, Job, Rahab, and Rebekah, as well as many others, were really TYPES, or SHADOWS, of either the ANOINTED or the “GREAT CROWD.” ( Rev. 7:9 ) For example, JEPHTHAH, JOB, and REBEKAH were thought to represent the ANOINTED, while Deborah and RAHAB were said to FORESHADOW the GREAT CROWD. However, in RECENT YEARS we have not DRAWN such COMPARISONS. Why not?

Here they didn't even mention the JONADABS and the JEHU CLASS and numerous ones used in the past.

Or it's ADHERENTS are unable to UNDERSTAND the MEANING of what is PASSED ACROSS in that column based on QUESTIONS our readers asked.

Or it's a case of


"THE PARTY told you to REJECT the EVIDENCE of your EYES and EARS. It was there FINAL and MOST ESSENTIAL COMMAND"


What does this mean in essence, it means a LOYAL WILLINGNESS to say that BLACK is WHITE when PARTY DISCIPLINE demand this up to the till the EXTENT of even saying you have NEVER BELIEVED that BLACK is BLACK.

Don't know if your aware of this rottennaija or researched along that direction.

Take a look at this and see what I am talking about.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20150315/types-antitypes/

The TYPE and ANTITYPE SAGA....

Augustine of Hippo commented extensively on the account where we read that Jesus fed about 5,000 men with five barley loaves and two fish. Since barley was considered to be inferior to wheat, Augustine concluded that the five loaves must represent the five books of Moses (the inferior “barley” representing the supposed inferiority of the “Old Testament”). And the two fish? For some reason he likened them to a king and a priest.

What were the GB teaching the JWS two years back on this same palaver?

Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few. Watchtower July 15, 2013......Paragraph 3

Motivated by compassion , Jesus performed a miracle. It is the only miracle included in all four Gospels.(Mark6:35-44;Luke9:10-17;John6:1-13) Jesus had his disciples tell the crowd to sit down on the green grass in groups of 50 and of 100. After saying a prayer, he broke the bread and divided up the fish. Instead of giving the food to the people directly ,Jesus gave it to the disciples, and then the disciples gave it out to the crowd. They had more than enough food to feed everybody. Just think : JESUS FED THOUSANDS THROUGH THE HANDS of a FEW, his DISCIPLES.—Seeendnote1.

That's the GB TYPE and ANTITYPE of a MIRACLE performed by Jesus. It was no where stated that this is a FUTURE PROPHECY that will involve the FAITHFUL and DISCREET SLAVE(the GB of Jehovah's witnesses today). A read through of the whole material will give you an insight.

Can the GB still be said to be those FEEDING the many through the HANDS of FEW? Where in particular was Jesus using this particular miracle as a TYPE and ANTITYPE.

Are the GB assisting there adherents to understand the ramifications of all this? One can only pray they follow the explanation below concerning the TYPE and ANTITYPE SAGA.



If such INTERPRETATIONS seem FAR-FETCHED, you can UNDERSTAND the DILEMMA. Humans cannot know WHICH BIBLE ACCOUNTS are SHADOWS of things to come and WHICH are NOT. The clearest course is this: WHERE the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is TYPICAL of SOMETHING else, we ACCEPT it as SUCH. Otherwise, we OUGHT to be RELUCTANT to ASSIGN an ANTITYPICAL APPLICATION to a certain person or ACCOUNT if there is no SPECIFIC SCRIPTURAL BASIS for doing so.

I can understand your situation. But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Titus 1:2 " HOPE of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago "

Achorladey: This is Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the faith of GOD’S CHOSEN ONES and the accurate knowledge of the truth that is according to godly devotion 2 and is based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago;

You can CLEARLY see GOD'S CHOSEN ONES,

were we to go in line with JWS THEOLOGY as it relates with PAUL'S statement in verse 1 of Titus 1 regarding GOD'S CHOSEN ONES it will simply means from the JW theology the promise of EVERLASTING LIFE is only for the 144,000 but here you are trying to tell us the PROMISE which this HOPE is based stated here is for EVERYONE when you can equally see the same CHOSEN in 1 Peter 2: 9 used here.


Hahahahaha!. Does that not send a message to you concerning the HOPE all CHRISTIANS have?


Jozzy4: That's the one HOPE everyone is called either in the new heaven or new earth.

Achorladey: the GIFT of EVERLASTING LIFE is already in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT. Romans 6:23.

Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesud takes away the sin of the entire world ?

Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth .

Jesus promise the theif on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

In the statement "
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28, the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class

Jozzy4: Discussing this inheritance for INVITED members of New Covenant, Peter said " it is RESERVED in the heavens for you ".

Achorladey: please do tell us WHO are INVITED and those not INVITED?

Take a look at the scriptures below and see how your RESERVED know HEAVEN applies....

Colossians 1: 3-5 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones 5 because of the hope that is being RESERVED for YOU in the HEAVENS. You previously heard about this hope through the message of truth of the good news.

2 Timothy 4:8.From this time on, there is RESERVED for ME the of RIGHTEOUSNESS, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a REWARD in that day, yet not to ME ONLY, but also TO ALL THOSE who have LOVED HIS MANIFESTATION

1 Peter 1:3,4: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a NEW BIRTH to a living HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is RESERVED in the HEAVENS for you,

Hebrews 11: 6. Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the REWARDER of those EARNESTLY SEEKING HIM.

Matthew 5: 11,12 “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your REWARD is great in the HEAVENS, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.

When REWARD is said to be RESERVED in HEAVEN it means it's SOURCE of ORIGIN is from THERE. Therefore this question

DOES it MEAN we have to go there to get it?

Jozzy4: When something is reserved, its yet to be revealed fully.

Achorladey: Really? here is RESERVED according to Webster.....

KEPT or SET apart or  ASIDE for FUTURE or SPECIAL USE.

Does it mean it has not been REVEALED?

Oga Jozzy4 I go like make use of your dictionary.

it is not fully REVEALED yet you know that they are KINGS and PRIESTS, is that not part of what is REVEALED?

It has not BEEN REVEALED the writers make use of APPOINTED, CHOSEN, MADE, SEATED e. t. c when writing all of these?

" FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings .

Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant

Jozzy4: Rev 5:9,10 should open your dull eyes to the fact that this invited ones will RULE over Earth

Achorladey: My eyes are widely open and I don't use aid when reading. Don't know about you though.

This is Revelation 5:9,10

They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your OWN BLOOD you HAVE PURCHASED for God PERSONS from EVERY TRIBE, LANGUAGE, PEOPLE, and NATION. 10 You have APPOINTED them as a KINGDOM and PRIESTS to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”




Show me the INVITED ONES in the scriptures CITED?

Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

And will rule over the earth.

Empty earth ?

Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb . so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant. Great crowd are on earth

TATIME:
Paul called them 'SONS of disobedience'!
Take note that they're not just walking away as in retreating or surrending according to Paul, but they're bent on carrying others along in their uncertain journey! Ephesians 5:6

Hmmm, I see!
We do have suchlike ones during warfare, in military terms it's called Sabotage!

.

achorladey:
The TYPE and ANTITYPE SAGA....

Augustine of Hippo commented extensively on the account where we read that Jesus fed about 5,000 men with five barley loaves and two fish. Since barley was considered to be inferior to wheat, Augustine concluded that the five loaves must represent the five books of Moses (the inferior “barley” representing the supposed inferiority of the “Old Testament”). And the two fish? For some reason he likened them to a king and a priest.

What were the GB teaching the JWS two years back on this same palaver?

Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few. Watchtower July 15, 2013......Paragraph 3

Motivated by compassion , Jesus performed a miracle. It is the only miracle included in all four Gospels.(Mark6:35-44;Luke9:10-17;John6:1-13) Jesus had his disciples tell the crowd to sit down on the green grass in groups of 50 and of 100. After saying a prayer, he broke the bread and divided up the fish. Instead of giving the food to the people directly ,Jesus gave it to the disciples, and then the disciples gave it out to the crowd. They had more than enough food to feed everybody. Just think : JESUS FED THOUSANDS THROUGH THE HANDS of a FEW, his DISCIPLES.—Seeendnote1.

That's the GB TYPE and ANTITYPE of a MIRACLE performed by Jesus. It was no where stated that this is a FUTURE PROPHECY that will involve the FAITHFUL and DISCREET SLAVE(the GB of Jehovah's witnesses today). A read through of the whole material will give you an insight.

Can the GB still be said to be those FEEDING the many through the HANDS of FEW? Where in particular was Jesus using this particular miracle as a TYPE and ANTITYPE.

Are the GB assisting there adherents to understand the ramifications of all this? One can only pray they follow the explanation below concerning the TYPE and ANTITYPE SAGA.



If such INTERPRETATIONS seem FAR-FETCHED, you can UNDERSTAND the DILEMMA. Humans cannot know WHICH BIBLE ACCOUNTS are SHADOWS of things to come and WHICH are NOT. The clearest course is this: WHERE the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is TYPICAL of SOMETHING else, we ACCEPT it as SUCH. Otherwise, we OUGHT to be RELUCTANT to ASSIGN an ANTITYPICAL APPLICATION to a certain person or ACCOUNT if there is no SPECIFIC SCRIPTURAL BASIS for doing so.

By now we all know that the governing body applies what is convenient for them. As long as it serves the purpose, Jws will swallow everything, hook, line and sinker

rottennaija:
By now we all know that the governing body applies what is convenient for them. As long as it serves the purpose, Jws will swallow everything, hook, line and sinker

Over 8,000,000 DIEHARD DEDICATED ADHERENTS and still counting are vouching for the interpretations from the GB of JWs.
Of course these adherents knew that their leaders are IMPERFECT so there is bound to be few flaws in some doctrinal issues and organizational directions but no matter what happens these other sheep are solidly assisting the GB in their God's given assignments.
So all you who KNOW THAT THE GOVERNING BODY APPLIES WHAT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM can as well organize yourselves to form a BETTER GROUP and start applying what is NOT convenient for yourselves!

Jozzy4:
I can understand your situation. But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .



Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesud takes away the sin of the entire world ?

Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth .

Jesus promise the theif on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

In the statement "
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28, the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class


" FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings .

Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant



Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

And will rule over the earth.

Empty earth ?

Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb . so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant. Great crowd are on earth

Jozzy4: I can understand your situation.

Achorladey: What is the situation you can understand? Before it was dem don brainwash this one. Now it the SITUATION. Is this another usual diversionary tactics?

Jozzy4: But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .

Achorladey: Who are the those INVITED? Christ mediatorship is based on the one and only new covenant that comes with a promise and 1 Timothy 2:5 states he(Jesus Christ) is the ONE mediator between men and God. He is not mediating for 144,000 alone, the one and only new covenant is not for them alone.

Jozzy4: Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came

Achorladey: As if I said GIFT of everlasting life is not for EVERYONE including those who died before Jesus Christ came to the world.

Don't forget you cited Titus 1:2 about hope of everlasting life, I refer you back to Titus 1:1 that the word is said to be for GOD'S CHOSEN ONES the same CHOSEN used in 1 Peter 2:9.

Therefore going by the JW theology or YOURS, the hope EXPRESSED in the Titus 1:2 cited by you will equally be for the 144,000 alone. But you are the one using it now to tell me now it's for EVERYONE. When you can equally see CHOSEN there too.

Jozzy4: .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesus takes away the sin of the entire world?

Achorladey:Before you read this you will know if your indeed debunking and what CLAIM you are debunking?

Your mind did not tell you The lamb that take away the sin of the world was the one used to establish the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries Promise that makes them SONS and HEIRS of the PROMISE. Hahahahahaha!

Jozzy4: Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth.

Achorladey: As if I said the one and only new covenant is for ANGELS, SERAPHS and CHERUBS. E get as e be.

Just to make you think a bit when Paul said this in

2 Corinthians 6:16.....

what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a TEMPLE of a LIVING GOD; just as God SAID: “I will RESIDE among THEM and WALK among THEM, and I will be their GOD, and they will be my PEOPLE.

Do you see any relationship here with the account in Revelations 21:1-4.....

Will God do this in HEAVEN or EARTH? Is it also for the 144,000?

Jozzy4: Jesus promise the thief on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 fear GOD did you see "on EARTH" in that scripture you cited there.

Jozzy4: In the statement "

Achorladey: Yes, which I believe is one of JESUS Christ

Jozzy4: My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28,

Achorladey: save yourselves of that John 10:16 already said this

And I have OTHER SHEEP, which are not of this fold; those too I MUST BRING IN, and they will listen to my voice, and they will BECOME ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD

Are they outside of the little flock or inside alongside the little flock?

Ephesians 2: I cited earlier is still available. If you had not read it go and read it again from verse 11-22.

Jozzy4: the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 which jws theology regards as the little flock already have everlasting life without the new covenant. hahahahaha!

How many FLOCK of SHEEP JESUS get?


Jozzy4: " FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

Achorladey: It's no longer you can't see but SLEEPING.

You said what is RESERVED has not been REVEALED. I showed you the meaning of RESERVED to be what is kept and it doesn't mean it has not been REVEALED.

I am wondering who has been sleeping now.

Jozzy4: 2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings.

Achorladey: This is 2 Timothy 2:11, 12...This saying is trustworthy: Certainly if we died together, we will also live together; 12 if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us.

Jozzy4 are you dying in CHRIST? The way you live your life now do you live it to Christ? Will you live together with Christ and rule together as Kings with him? Or this scripture is only for 144,000.

2 Corinthians 5:14,15....For the love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have concluded, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died. 15 And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up

Yet you are dragging me back, didn't you see this scripture in the last post. Here it is again

From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation.

Jozzy4: Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant

Achorladey: Do I have to tell you ENDURANCE is a quality all Christians must have?

Is endurance only for 144,000 that will rule with
christ according to Jw theology or yours.

Do you ENDURE as a CHRISTIAN and since it comes first will you AGREE you will get that future promise Associated with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

2 Peter 1: 5-8 For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control ENDURANCE, to your ENDURANCE GODLY DEVOTION, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jozzy4: Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

Achorladey: Eh en.

Jozzy4: And will rule over the earth.

Achorladey: Will reign on earth.

Jozzy4: Empty earth?

Achorladey: Na you make an EMPTY?

Jozzy4: Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb.

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 don't need to put faith in JESUS as well as OWE THEIR SALVATION to the LAMB. Hahahahahaha. Na only great crowd you see. Who are the GREAT CROWD?

Jozzy4: so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant.

Achorladey: where the CLAIM dey ooo make I see.

Did 144,000 not put faith in JESUS CHRIST before they are part of the the one and only new covenant?

You have repeatedly cited Hebrews 9:15 here it is again


That is why he is a MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT , in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.

Where is it stated here that it is for the 144,000 alone or ONLY 144,000 are those CALLED ? Just show us. simple!

But we have repeatedly told you the mediatorship of JESUS CHRIST is based on this ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries EVERLASTING PROMISE. rottennaija gave you a formula you rejected it but failed to provide yours.

Jozzy4: Great crowd are on earth

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 Prove am oooo.

Maximus69:
Over 8,000,000 DIEHARD DEDICATED ADHERENTS and still counting are vouching for the interpretations from the GB of JWs.
Of course these adherents knew that their leaders are IMPERFECT so there is bound to be few flaws in some doctrinal issues and organizational directions but no matter what happens these other sheep are solidly assisting the GB in their God's given assignments.
So all you who KNOW THAT THE GOVERNING BODY APPLIES WHAT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM can as well organize yourselves to form a BETTER GROUP and start applying what is NOT convenient for yourselves!

Maximus69: Over 8,000,000 DIEHARD DEDICATED ADHERENTS and still counting are vouching for the interpretations from the GB of JWs.

Achorladey: Good for you, many other adherents of other religious and Christian denomination do likewise for the leaders of their organization.

Maximus69: Of course these adherents knew that their leaders are IMPERFECT so there is bound to be few flaws in some doctrinal issues and organizational directions but no matter what happens these other sheep are solidly assisting the GB in their God's given assignments.

Achorladey: Since you admit they have flaws, it's a good thing so that when they are AUTHORITATIVE on imposing on YOU the wrong thing that is different from the voice of the ONLY SHEPHERD. You know what to do.

Also take into consideration the FLAWS of THE LEADERS of other religious denominations apart from YOURS before you LAMBAST, NAME CALL, TAG and INSULT them and REMEMBER the work they do to is NOT SATAN GIVEN WORK.


Maximus69: So all you who KNOW THAT THE GOVERNING BODY APPLIES WHAT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM can as well organize yourselves to form a BETTER GROUP and start applying what is NOT convenient for yourselves!

Achorladey: You are the one TELLING us all this while your group is the best and believe is the ONLY GROUP in the WORLD UNITING all "TRUE CHRISTIANS" that the history and antecedent of the organization in the past and now prove OTHERWISE.

ALL other groups are ORGANIZED and THEY don't go about BRAGGING about what accomplishment they have done like you have done repeatedly on this platform.

Just like I advised your friend before will repeat it again

Galatians 6: 25-26 If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit. 26 Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

The reason you see some refuse to raise one religious denominations or Christian denominations above the other. You know why? You are a MAN of INTELLIGENCE try ascertain.

rottennaija:
By now we all know that the governing body applies what is convenient for them. As long as it serves the purpose, Jws will swallow everything, hook, line and sinker

A classic case of FITTING SCRIPTURES into ORGANIZATIONAL DOCTRINES. Just like the DUO are seeing us as SONS of disobedience as if they cannot read the characteristics of SONS of DISOBEDIENCE in Ephesians 2.....

Ephesians 2: 1-3 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also FORMERLY LIVED out our lives in the CRAVINGS of our FLESH, indulging the DESIRES of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

Anything done outside of the organization are done by SONS of DISOBEDIENCE. Hahahahahahaha. E get as e be.

Even great FAITH was found OUTSIDE the WHOLE of ISRAEL ("Jehovah's organization" back then according to JWS THEOLOGY)


Still on the information given via the cite you pasted, I have taken time to read Ephesians 2:11-22 and REVELATION 7: 1-17 side by side. You might find something interesting.

achorladey:
A classic case of FITTING SCRIPTURES into ORGANIZATIONAL DOCTRINES. Just like the DUO are seeing us as SONS of disobedience as if they cannot read the characteristics of SONS of DISOBEDIENCE in Ephesians 2.....

Ephesians 2: 1-3 And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also FORMERLY LIVED out our lives in the CRAVINGS of our FLESH, indulging the DESIRES of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…

Anything done outside of the organization are done by SONS of DISOBEDIENCE. Hahahahahahaha. E get as e be.

Even great FAITH was found OUTSIDE the WHOLE of ISRAEL ("Jehovah's organization" back then according to JWS THEOLOGY)


Still on the information given via the cite you pasted, I have taken time to read Ephesians 2:11-22 and REVELATION 7: 1-17 side by side. You might find something interesting.

I'll check it later

TATIME:
Paul called them 'SONS of disobedience'!
Take note that they're not just walking away as in retreating or surrending according to Paul, but they're bent on carrying others along in their uncertain journey! Ephesians 5:6

I'm glad we are not alone. In the Bible, we had a man Jesus who was said to have a demon and perform miracles by demon. They were the apostles who were told to stop speaking about Jesus and whipped, some even killed for doing so. The prophets were excellent examples Jeremiah, Isaiah, Joel...etc.

Do your remember an interesting thing about these ones? They were all referred to apostate to God's organization, the nation of Israel. Their ways was also apostacy to the traditions laid down by religious leaders like the Pharisees, priest, kings etc, especially when they strayed.

The other interesting thing about was that they were bent on carrying others alone. So, I believe we have good examples to learn from and are in good company.

Maximus69:
But please Tatime, why can't they just walk away like the atheists does? Since it's obvious they're only against leadership!

You are beginning to accept we are not atheist. That's an improvement. Soon, we will have a common ground.

Maximus69:
Hmmm,
You know i only had the experience of military intelligence i'm not a genius in mind reading. But with what you said, i can now perceive the concept.
It's not all about fact finding, it's about submission to humans taking the lead in what is agreed upon, so they don't want to agree on anything in order to avoid SUBMISSION. Hebrew 13:7
Thanks Sir!

Then you have no military Intelligence.

achorladey:
Maximus69: Over 8,000,000 DIEHARD DEDICATED ADHERENTS and still counting are vouching for the interpretations from the GB of JWs.

Achorladey: Good for you, many other adherents of other religious and Christian denomination do likewise for the leaders of their organization.

Maximus69: Of course these adherents knew that their leaders are IMPERFECT so there is bound to be few flaws in some doctrinal issues and organizational directions but no matter what happens these other sheep are solidly assisting the GB in their God's given assignments.

Achorladey: Since you admit they have flaws, it's a good thing so that when they are AUTHORITATIVE on imposing on YOU the wrong thing that is different from the voice of the ONLY SHEPHERD. You know what to do.

Also take into consideration the FLAWS of THE LEADERS of other religious denominations apart from YOURS before you LAMBAST, NAME CALL, TAG and INSULT them and REMEMBER the work they do to is NOT SATAN GIVEN WORK.


Maximus69: So all you who KNOW THAT THE GOVERNING BODY APPLIES WHAT IS CONVENIENT FOR THEM can as well organize yourselves to form a BETTER GROUP and start applying what is NOT convenient for yourselves!

Achorladey: You are the one TELLING us all this while your group is the best and believe is the ONLY GROUP in the WORLD UNITING all "TRUE CHRISTIANS" that the history and antecedent of the organization in the past and now prove OTHERWISE.

ALL other groups are ORGANIZED and THEY don't go about BRAGGING about what accomplishment they have done like you have done repeatedly on this platform.

Just like I advised your friend before will repeat it again

Galatians 6: 25-26 If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit. 26 Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

The reason you see some refuse to raise one religious denominations or Christian denominations above the other. You know why? You are a MAN of INTELLIGENCE try ascertain.

It's good to have at least one advocate of all the religious groups claiming Christians.
And it has ever been the heritage of the people worshiping the true God NEVER to have mixed advocates defending pure worship along with false religion.
So you can stand up for all the religious groups claiming Christians EXCEPT Jehovah's Witnesses whose God demands exclusive undivided devotion, therefore i can sense that you're for them against us.
But your problem still remains that neither their Pastors nor worshipers accepts you as their own if you're not paying your dues to the churches, thus making miscreants like you a hopeless, helpless wanderer and fugitive for life!

rottennaija:
You are beginning to accept we are not atheist. That's an improvement. Soon, we will have a common ground.

Just wait until then!

rottennaija:
Then you have no military Intelligence.

Hmmm,
You need to be at the war front, battle fields or combating terrorism before you can acknowledge or appreciate the military intelligence.
But when you're arguing about religion, it's only psychologists and psychiatrists that can ACCURATELY read the minds of adherents. I was attracted to Christianity by one single word 'Christian Soldier', i marveled how those who aren't carrying weapons could be REAL soldiers, so i started studying different religious groups claiming Christians but none is STRICTLY obeying the order from Christ regarding weapons until i heard of JWs!
I've often driven them away by tactfully saying i'm busy, but due to my quest to know how people can become soldiers without weapons i began listening to them.
Today there remains no atom of doubt in my heart anymore because Jehovah's Witnesses have proven beyond all imagination that there could be warfare void of weapons!
The way and manner all other religious groups hate them, the verbal and physical attacks on members and all manners of blackmail has helped me to know that this is the one and only group Jesus organized back then. Though Satan killed all those maintaining the standard during the first century, and replacing the group with pagan Roman worship know today as Catholics. But somehow Jesus has reorganised his group in our time and they're now flourishing all over the earth!
So don't mix it all up Sir, military intelligence is for PHYSICAL warfare and strategies of war NOT social or religious study, that's why i always say 'Jehovah's Witnesses, thank you for changing the weapon i was taught to use' now i can handle the Bible though not yet as good as others like Janosky, Jozzy4, Tatime, Captivator, Barrister and others but at least i value the effectiveness of spiritual weapons and warfare!

rottennaija:
I'm glad we are not alone. In the Bible, we had a man Jesus who was said to have a demon and perform miracles by demon. They were the apostles who were told to stop speaking about Jesus and whipped, some even killed for doing so. The prophets were excellent examples Jeremiah, Isaiah, Joel...etc.

Do your remember an interesting thing about these ones? They were all referred to apostate to God's organization, the nation of Israel. Their ways was also apostacy to the traditions laid down by religious leaders like the Pharisees, priest, kings etc, especially when they strayed.

The other interesting thing about was that they were bent on carrying others alone. So, I believe we have good examples to learn from and are in good company.

This comparison could have been excellent if you correlate it to the attacks from one side towards the other!
Jesus taught his followers to say 'NO' to rebelliousness and pride, so why not try to relate your experience with the way false religion often attack true Christians in the past? Perhaps you can see that JWs only claims to be the one and only group worshiping their God, they're NOT attacking anyone verbally or physically. And if there is any religious group that feels slighted due to the assertions made in the publications of the JWs, why not let such a religion call for a press conference where they can prove the JWs wrong with their assertions found in the publications?
But NO! None of them is fit to come out publicly to challenge the JWs on biblical debate for rights and wrongs. All they do is hide behind the scene telling their members not to allow JWs in their homes while the JWs are all in the streets confidently knocking on the doors of people indiscriminately to discuss freely with them!
The religious leaders kept hiding, using their political members and affiliates to fight against JWs, instead of coming to face them publicly!
Pharisees gave up in the public challenge and used their political influence against Jesus and his followers. You are just in the middle of nowhere because while enemies of the truth are scheming to use political influence against God's people, you're neither here nor there!

Maximus69:
Hmmm,
You need to be at the war front, battle fields or combating terrorism before you can acknowledge or appreciate the military intelligence.
But when you're arguing about religion, it's only psychologists and psychiatrists that can ACCURATELY read the minds of adherents. I was attracted to Christianity by one single word 'Christian Soldier', i marveled how those who aren't carrying weapons could be REAL soldiers, so i started studying different religious groups claiming Christians but none is STRICTLY obeying the order from Christ regarding weapons until i heard of JWs!
I've often driven them away by tactfully saying i'm busy, but due to my quest to know how people can become soldiers without weapons i began listening to them.
Today there remains no atom of doubt in my heart anymore because Jehovah's Witnesses have proven beyond all imagination that there could be warfare void of weapons!
The way and manner all other religious groups hate them, the verbal and physical attacks on members and all manners of blackmail has helped me to know that this is the one and only group Jesus organized back then. Though Satan killed all those maintaining the standard during the first century, and replacing the group with pagan Roman worship know today as Catholics. But somehow Jesus has reorganised his group in our time and they're now flourishing all over the earth!
So don't mix it all up Sir, military intelligence is for PHYSICAL warfare and strategies of war NOT social or religious study, that's why i always say 'Jehovah's Witnesses, thank you for changing the weapon i was taught to use' now i can handle the Bible though not yet as good as others like Janosky, Jozzy4, Tatime, Captivator, Barrister and others but at least i value the effectiveness of spiritual weapons and warfare!

And you still have not seen the irony in all you have written?

rottennaija:
And you still have not seen the irony in all you have written?

Lots and lots and lots of ironies may suffice in the write~up of imperfect humans like me,but that doesn't implies lack of integrity or submission to God's will!
JWs who have been in the field knows better than i do regarding mind reading but gradually i will get there soon!

rottennaija:
And you still have not seen the irony in all you have written?

And you are indeed correct on that.

Maximus69:
It's good to have at least one advocate of all the religious groups claiming Christians.
And it has ever been the heritage of the people worshiping the true God NEVER to have mixed advocates defending pure worship along with false religion.
So you can stand up for all the religious groups claiming Christians EXCEPT Jehovah's Witnesses whose God demands exclusive undivided devotion, therefore i can sense that you're for them against us.
But your problem still remains that neither their Pastors nor worshipers accepts you as their own if you're not paying your dues to the churches, thus making miscreants like you a hopeless, helpless wanderer and fugitive for life!

You are only reading and the sense of what is typed you fail to grasp.

Since you know their pastors nor worshippers do not accept me. How has that go to do with you? Do you want to advocate on my behalf? So that I gain their acceptance. Seeker of the GLORY of men. Your palaver!

The last part of the post is filled with the IRONIES stated earlier a confirmation that you are only reading but not listening carefully.

achorladey:
You are only reading and the sense of what is typed you fail to grasp.

Since you know their pastors nor worshippers do not accept me. How has that go to do with you? Do you want to advocate on my behalf? So that I gain their acceptance. Seeker of the GLORY of men. Your palaver!

The last part of the post is filled with the IRONIES stated earlier a confirmation that you are only reading but not listening carefully.

True worshipers do fellowship together as a group or an assembly! God never sent Jesus to establish Christianity so that 2,000 years after worshipers can't worship shoulder to shoulder as brothers!
There is nothing like runaway fugitive claiming Christiam soldier in pure worship so if you still can't find a visible group of like minded worshipers to associate with, then you're NOT worshiping the Jehovah of ARMIES!

achorladey:
And you are indeed correct on that.

Birds of same feathers flocks together!
So whatever a fugitive says will always make the best speech of all times before another fugitive!

Maximus69:
Birds of same feathers flocks together!
So whatever a fugitive says will always make the best speech of all times before another fugitive!

hahahahaha people serve God in times past as FUGITIVE. Not a new thing oga Maximus69. Since the speech is best in the ears of another fugitive why bother or perhaps you are aspiring to be one of us. No problem.

Concerning happiness we know what it mean that is still available in Matthew 5.

Maximus69:
True worshipers do fellowship together as a group or an assembly! God never sent Jesus to establish Christianity so that 2,000 years after worshipers can't worship shoulder to shoulder as brothers!
There is nothing like runaway fugitive claiming Christiam soldier in pure worship so if you still can't find a visible group of like minded worshipers to associate with, then you're NOT worshiping the Jehovah of ARMIES!

oga Maximus69 you want to join us, the way you are using FUGITIVE it seems like you want to associate with us, you said we are FUGITIVES, Thank you. Which one be you are not worshipping Jehovah of Armies. Na you be Jehovah of Armies again?

You want to bring your analogies here that since God is attributed as Jehovah of armies, we have to group together like soldiers before we worship him. Pele oooo

Sorry Oga Maximus69 if thats your mindset, John 14:23 still dey inside bible please do read. No be until teeth plenty before we fit chop ooo even as low as two we go still use am.

achorladey:
Jozzy4: I can understand your situation.

Achorladey: What is the situation you can understand? Before it was dem don brainwash this one. Now it the SITUATION. Is this another usual diversionary tactics?

Jozzy4: But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .

Achorladey: Who are the those INVITED? Christ mediatorship is based on the one and only new covenant that comes with a promise and 1 Timothy 2:5 states he(Jesus Christ) is the ONE mediator between men and God. He is not mediating for 144,000 alone, the one and only new covenant is not for them alone.

Jozzy4: Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came

Achorladey: As if I said GIFT of everlasting life is not for EVERYONE including those who died before Jesus Christ came to the world.

Don't forget you cited Titus 1:2 about hope of everlasting life, I refer you back to Titus 1:1 that the word is said to be for GOD'S CHOSEN ONES the same CHOSEN used in 1 Peter 2:9.

Therefore going by the JW theology or YOURS, the hope EXPRESSED in the Titus 1:2 cited by you will equally be for the 144,000 alone. But you are the one using it now to tell me now it's for EVERYONE. When you can equally see CHOSEN there too.

Jozzy4: .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesus takes away the sin of the entire world?

Achorladey:Before you read this you will know if your indeed debunking and what CLAIM you are debunking?

Your mind did not tell you The lamb that take away the sin of the world was the one used to establish the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries Promise that makes them SONS and HEIRS of the PROMISE. Hahahahahaha!

Jozzy4: Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth.

Achorladey: As if I said the one and only new covenant is for ANGELS, SERAPHS and CHERUBS. E get as e be.

Just to make you think a bit when Paul said this in

2 Corinthians 6:16.....

what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a TEMPLE of a LIVING GOD; just as God SAID: “I will RESIDE among THEM and WALK among THEM, and I will be their GOD, and they will be my PEOPLE.

Do you see any relationship here with the account in Revelations 21:1-4.....

Will God do this in HEAVEN or EARTH? Is it also for the 144,000?

Jozzy4: Jesus promise the thief on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 fear GOD did you see "on EARTH" in that scripture you cited there.

Jozzy4: In the statement "

Achorladey: Yes, which I believe is one of JESUS Christ

Jozzy4: My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28,

Achorladey: save yourselves of that John 10:16 already said this

And I have OTHER SHEEP, which are not of this fold; those too I MUST BRING IN, and they will listen to my voice, and they will BECOME ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD

Are they outside of the little flock or inside alongside the little flock?

Ephesians 2: I cited earlier is still available. If you had not read it go and read it again from verse 11-22.

Jozzy4: the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 which jws theology regards as the little flock already have everlasting life without the new covenant. hahahahaha!

How many FLOCK of SHEEP JESUS get?

@bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits , showing it refer to life on earth . these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded

Jozzy4: " FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

Achorladey: It's no longer you can't see but SLEEPING.

You said what is RESERVED has not been REVEALED. I showed you the meaning of RESERVED to be what is kept and it doesn't mean it has not been REVEALED.

I am wondering who has been sleeping now.

Jozzy4: 2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings.

Achorladey: This is 2 Timothy 2:11, 12...This saying is trustworthy: Certainly if we died together, we will also live together; 12 if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us.

Jozzy4 are you dying in CHRIST? The way you live your life now do you live it to Christ? Will you live together with Christ and rule together as Kings with him? Or this scripture is only for 144,000.

2 Corinthians 5:14,15....For the love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have concluded, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died. 15 And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up

Yet you are dragging me back, didn't you see this scripture in the last post. Here it is again

From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation.

Jozzy4: Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant

Achorladey: Do I have to tell you ENDURANCE is a quality all Christians must have?

Is endurance only for 144,000 that will rule with
christ according to Jw theology or yours.

Do you ENDURE as a CHRISTIAN and since it comes first will you AGREE you will get that future promise Associated with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

2 Peter 1: 5-8 For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control ENDURANCE, to your ENDURANCE GODLY DEVOTION, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jozzy4: Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

Achorladey: Eh en.

Jozzy4: And will rule over the earth.

Achorladey: Will reign on earth.

Jozzy4: Empty earth?

Achorladey: Na you make an EMPTY?

Jozzy4: Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb.

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 don't need to put faith in JESUS as well as OWE THEIR SALVATION to the LAMB. Hahahahahaha. Na only great crowd you see. Who are the GREAT CROWD?

Jozzy4: so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant.

Achorladey: where the CLAIM dey ooo make I see.

Did 144,000 not put faith in JESUS CHRIST before they are part of the the one and only new covenant?

You have repeatedly cited Hebrews 9:15 here it is again


That is why he is a MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT , in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.

Where is it stated here that it is for the 144,000 alone or ONLY 144,000 are those CALLED ? Just show us. simple!

But we have repeatedly told you the mediatorship of JESUS CHRIST is based on this ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries EVERLASTING PROMISE. rottennaija gave you a formula you rejected it but failed to provide yours.

Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven .

Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND ?

Jozzy4: Great crowd are on earth

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 Prove am oooo.

If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood ?

My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven .