LoJ:
@babacele budaatum fratermathy

Do you have any interest discussing the Templars? I believe at lot about western mysticism can be uncover once light is made about them. They may be the treasure hidden in the field.

After all, the topic says we can discuss any esoteric organization.

sorry this response is a bit late for I have a scanty information about them. Nonetheless, while I leave fratermathy to talk about the Crusaders, let me point out here that using the word ' Rosicrucian' doesn't make one a true Rosicrucian. AMORC is a global, mystical ,fraternal ,nonsectarian, and cosmopolitan school studying the sciences ,arts and applying the cosmic laws to prefer solutions to human challenges. Its principles are the old traditions of the original rosae crucis unbowed by time and whims, while LR is a gnostic religious body with its sectarian uniqueness which came into existence in early 1900.

I'm watching Forbidden History - The Secrets of the Alchemists on terrestrial free telly at the moment and found it on Dailymotion too. I know many can't afford the data but they will someday and that delights me immensely. For when light shines, the darkness of ignorance will be illuminated. And with almost 200 million Nigerians, our greatest days are ahead of us.

Update. This program barely scratches the surface (didn't really expect it to), so I'm labelling it 'for beginners only'.

Babacele:
sorry this response is a bit late for I have a scanty information about them. Nonetheless, while I leave fratermathy to talk about the Crusaders, let me point out here that using the word ' Rosicrucian' doesn't make one a true Rosicrucian. AMORC is a global, mystical ,fraternal ,nonsectarian, and cosmopolitan school studying the sciences ,arts and applying the cosmic laws to prefer solutions to human challenges. Its principles are the old traditions of the original rosae crucis unbowed by time and whims, while LR is a gnostic religious body with its sectarian uniqueness which came into existence in early 1900.

You are more or less implying that the LR is not authentic rosicrucian. I am ready to agree if you tell us what exactly is "original" rosicrucianism, and how AMORC is, and the LR is not.

By the way, I know very well that AMORC and LR have great differences. What I fail to understand is on what basis AMORCis "original" and the LR is not. Moreover, besides the LR and AMORC there are many other rosicrucian groups. Are they all "non authentic" but AMORC?

The Templars are not the crusaders, althought they worked together at some point.

budaatum:
Are you saying, without the Catholic Church there would have been no Rosicrucians?

What did they find and hide?

(On second thoughts, let's stay here. This thread has survived worse distractions.)

It is not possible to reduce the Templars to the catholic church. We all know it is the same catholic church that got them killed in thousands. Back then it was impossible to endeavour any spiritual quest without the catholic church, especially something as sensitive as what the Templars wanted or happened to do.

The idea that 9 Knights were enough to create an order to keep jerusalem safe for the pilgrim is very ludicrous. It is obvious they had another intent.

Look at it this way. 9 people get authorization from the Papacy to go and protect the pilgrims (which they never ever did). They go there and spend 9 years in absolute secrecy, and when they come back they build the greatest mystical organisation ever, as well as greatest financial empire.

We know from the discovery of the dead sea scrolls that there existed a scroll that gave enigmatic indications about the greatest assets of the Jerusalem temple, left and hidden by the jews during the Rome invasion and destruction. Scientist that followed the indications discovered nothing except evidence that some people went there before them - from all indications the templars (their unique cross and swords were found there).

Now when you realize they spent indeed 9 years in the ruin of the temple in total secrecy, it becomes easy to connect the dots.

LoJ:

You are more or less implying that the LR is not authentic rosicrucian. I am ready to agree if you tell us what exactly is "original" rosicrucianism, and how AMORC is, and the LR is not.

By the way, I know very well that AMORC and LR have great differences. What I fail to understand is on what basis AMORCis "original" and the LR is not. Moreover, besides the LR and AMORC there are many other rosicrucian groups. Are they all "non authentic" but AMORC?

The Templars are not the crusaders, althought they worked together at some point.

The two are different entities. One is a school with no known founder and a long history of traditions while the other is a religious group with a known founder and a relatively recent history. They are two different entities. AMORC doesn't claim to be superior but has a duty to jealously guide its traditions.

9 people, perhaps, until 10 years later in 1129, when they were officially given recognition at the Council of Troyes and their influence grew. Their aim being to defend Jerusalem and to ensure the charitable giver a place in heaven. Remember indulgences - that age old trick of filling church coffers by selling tickets to heaven, which is known as 'tithes' in today's Nigeria?

There is a lot of legend about them (lost ark, philosopher's stone, relic trading, 'Hiram Key', Chevalier Labhran de Saint Germain, Charles G. Addison etc), and a lot of spurious facts (spit on the cross, worship Baphomet etc), so they did have immense impact for their time, both economcal and in easing travel between the west and the east (I do understand that they did protect travellers with the invention, or rather, use of cheques, which significantly reduced financial loss of travellers, no doubt, for a fee). And they knew a lot (esoteric wise), as their TESTIS SVM AGNI - "Exist to Witness Wisdom" shows (albeit a later addition). And by God, Chartres Cathedral, amongst others - an amazing 'book' of wisdom in its own right, which as Masons, the Knight Templars were involved with. But as is usual, they stood on the shoulders of giants, and not much have I not found more accessibly approached from other directions, the legends, myths and discrediting being blinding, which makes me wonder if they themselves weren't a 'hiding' organisation (or one I've been unable to decipher), more than a 'light a lamp' one which is more easily accessible. I must say, "lost ark"? Doubt it.

But hey, I said, "educate me". My research into them being almost 30 years old and my retention not being so good. Oh how I wish this was then!

Babacele:
The two are different entities. One is a school with no known founder and a long history of traditions while the other is a religious group with a known founder and a relatively recent history. They are two different entities. AMORC doesn't claim to be superior but has a duty to jealously guide its traditions.

I don't get your point.

Amorc was founded in 1914 and the LR was founded in 1924 that is 10 years later. Both claim to originate from the classical rosicrucian tradition. So what are you saying exactly?

budaatum:
9 people, perhaps, until 10 years later in 1129, when they were officially given recognition at the Council of Troyes

Exactly my point.

What is it they found that gave them tremendous power?

I personally lean towards thinking they discovered the suppressed feminine aspect of the Divine. Revelation so great that it changed their perspective for good.

There is evidence that the present free masonry and even the rose croix tradition are offshoots it the Templars.

LoJ:

It is not possible to reduce the Templars to the catholic church. We all know it is the same catholic church that got them killed in thousands. Back then it was impossible to endeavour any spiritual quest without the catholic church, especially something as sensitive as what the Templars wanted or happened to do.

The idea that 9 Knights were enough to create an order to keep jerusalem safe for the pilgrim is very ludicrous. It is obvious they had another intent.

Look at it this way. 9 people get authorization from the Papacy to go and protect the pilgrims (which they never ever did). They go there and spend 9 years in absolute secrecy, and when they come back they build the greatest mystical organisation ever, as well as greatest financial empire.

We know from the discovery of the dead sea scrolls that there existed a scroll that gave enigmatic indications about the greatest assets of the Jerusalem temple, left and hidden by the jews during the Rome invasion and destruction. Scientist that followed the indications discovered nothing except evidence that some people went there before them - from all indications the templars (their unique cross and swords were found there).

Now when you realize they spent indeed 9 years in the ruin of the temple in total secrecy, it becomes easy to connect the dots.

I hope you know that a lot of this you wrote is myth?

Ubenedictus:
I hope you know that a lot of this you wrote is myth?

Kindly point out the many things that are myths in that text.

LoJ:

I don't get your point.

Amorc was founded in 1914 and the LR was founded in 1924 that is 10 years later. Both claim to originate from the classical rosicrucian tradition. So what are you saying exactly?

AMORC is just a new name of an old order . The Order ,after about 104 years of inactivity based on tradition, had to go public again with a new manifestos for the new cycle in the early 1900 when Lewis was entrusted with the huge responsibility of staring its affairs in the New world. The Order had assumed different names at different times in history but the tradition and principles remain the same. I cannot say that for LR.

LoJ:

Exactly my point.

What is it they found that gave them tremendous power?

I personally lean towards thinking they discovered the suppressed feminine aspect of the Divine. Revelation so great that it changed their perspective for good.

There is evidence that the present free masonry and even the rose croix tradition are offshoots it the Templars.

In 1751 Baron Karl Gotthelf von Hund und Altengrotkau began the Order of Strict Observance, which ritual he claimed to have received from the reconstituted Templar Order in 1743 in Paris. He also claimed to have met two of the "unknown superiors" who directed all of masonry, one of whom was Prince Charles Edward Stuart. The order went into decline when he failed to produce any evidence to support his claims, and was wound up shortly after his [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29?wprov=sfla1]death[/url].

The Societas Rosicruciana claims a link to the original Rosicrucian Brotherhood. It bases its teachings on those found in the Fama and Confessio Fraternitas texts published in Germany in the early 17th century, along with other similar publications from the same time.

Thomas De Quincey in his work titled; Rosicrucians and Freemasonry, put forward the theory which suggested that Freemasonry was possibly an outgrowth of Rosicrucianism. The theory had also been postulated in 1803 by German professor; J. G. Buhle.

As you can see, a lot of "claims" and hardly any evidence, and all contradictory, like the four Gospels. It's for such reasons that religious discussion is banned in the Lodge least Masons start arguinng who's 'beliefs' are right and who's wrong and not therefore get on with doing the business of the Lodge. Some don't even require a belief in a supreme being and scripture anymore and would hardly be in amity with those who only accept those of only one faith.

If the Templars found anything I think it would have been revealed by now especially if they had Rosicrucian affiliations who's aim is to transmute the ignorant into the wise which can only be done by revealing information and not by hiding it, and more especially if it were the lost ark which would be a found ark if they had found it. But it's just "I think", and not a belief I hold on to. What's more important is the fruits that are produced, and not the seed that is planted or the soil it's planted in - apart from ensuring they are considered to be good and free, so to speak.

In the "feminine aspect of the Divine Revelation", I detect a reunion of the Godhead established in "in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them", a Duality which humankind got rid of in its early patriarchistic wrathful God but which was reestablished with the Love of the Son, Christian speaking. Add a third, intellect, if you may, or that which we heretofore struggled to name in a previous conversation, and you got your Trinity. Add one more aspect and you got what Jung called a Quarternity which is Whole. Don't ask me what the fourth represents though. Recall our struggle with even the third aspect.

Babacele:
AMORC is just a new name of an old order . The Order ,after about 104 years of inactivity based on tradition, had to go public again with a new manifestos for the new cycle in the early 1900 when Lewis was entrusted with the huge responsibility of staring its affairs in the New world. The Order had assumed different names at different times in history but the tradition and principles remain the same. I cannot say that for LR.

I have discussed with an adherent of the LR, he claims the same. That the tradition was transmitted and entrusted from way beyond the ages till them, through the gnostics, the cathares the manicheans the bogomiles the classical rosicrucians among others and then to them.

You also can't claim the tradition has remained the same over the years. Even within Amorc there has been some changes. Every movement evolves, evolution is part of this life.

Look I have nothing against Amorc nor do I hold any candle for the LR. I just don't like religious (segregationist) thinking of us vs them. Being rosicrucian does not imply one does not think like a religious person.

What I actually expected from this discussion is how the doctrines and approaches differ, since both movement claim to be heir of the same classical rose-croix...

and not the same usual " we are better, we are older we are the original" rhetorics.

LoJ:

I have discussed with an adherent of the LR, he claims the same. That the tradition was transmitted and entrusted from way beyond the ages till them, through the gnostics, the cathares the manicheans the bogomiles the classical rosicrucians among others and then to them.

You also can't claim the tradition has remained the same over the years. Even within Amorc there has been some changes. Every movement evolves, evolution is part of this life.

Look I have nothing against Amorc nor do I hold any candle for the LR. I just don't like religious (segregationist) thinking of us vs them. Being rosicrucian does not imply one does not think like a religious person.

What I actually expected from this discussion is how the doctrines and approaches differ, since both movement claim to be heir of the same classical rose-croix...

and not the same usual " we are better, we are older we are the original" rhetorics.

You are making a mistake sir. You need to know that AMORC is not and has never been a religious or sectarian organization, and that there are channels, plans and modalities , and NOT claims please, for the present responsibilities to be transferred to the next cycle with specific instructions from generations to generations. How can a fraternal body of men and women studying the laws of nature with a global membership cutting across different religious ,social and racial classes suddenly become a wholely religious organization? Do you know this sectarian identity destroys one of the pillars on which the Order stands ? This is a fact . So many organizations do have and some claim to have affiliations with the classical rosea cruxis, no doubt. AMORC believes and preaches that no single organization holds the only key to truth.

AMORC traditions and principles despite different civilizations and human evolution have hardly changed . Yes the experiences of each generations present new ways,new solutions or discoveries which form part of the Order's store of knowledge. Even though the present language of expressing these principles may have changed, the principles remain the same.

Babacele:
...

All the claims (or facts if you wish) you make about Amorc, LR adherents make them too. Can you specifically point out what is it about their teaching or approach that makes you original heir and others not?

I never said AMORC is a religious organisation. I have great respect for Amorc. I am saying you exhibit a religious approach to it, and it seems you do not see that.

But fair enough, if we can't talk approaches and ideologies, I have no desire to discuss how great a specific organization claims to be, which all other also claim anyways.

Shepherd00:

I have given you an answer, but of course you won't believe it because you have already believed the satanic version.


So you by any Chance know Jesus is the HEAD OF ALL PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS? You said you were a Christian right? you shd know, so tell me, what does it mean?

Good question

MiddleDimension:


i am curious @donnie @joagbaje @highered. what do you all make from this intepretation of the visit of the magicians to jesus coming from your fellow beliver?

Interesting read. Will do some more research.

LoJ:

You are more or less implying that the LR is not authentic rosicrucian. I am ready to agree if you tell us what exactly is "original" rosicrucianism, and how AMORC is, and the LR is not.

By the way, I know very well that AMORC and LR have great differences. What I fail to understand is on what basis AMORCis "original" and the LR is not. Moreover, besides the LR and AMORC there are many other rosicrucian groups. Are they all "non authentic" but AMORC?

The Templars are not the crusaders, althought they worked together at some point.

how can I become a member of amorc in Nigeria? Not just online member, but receive physical teaching.. I heard they have a center in calamari, but I stay in Lagos;do you know of any center in Lagos?

futurist369:
how can I become a member of amorc in Nigeria? Not just online member, but receive physical teaching.. I heard they have a center in calamari, but I stay in Lagos;do you know of any center in Lagos?

I know of their centre in Ilupeju axis in Lagos

futurist369:
how can I become a member of amorc in Nigeria? Not just online member, but receive physical teaching.. I heard they have a center in calamari, but I stay in Lagos;do you know of any center in Lagos?

I am not a member of AMORC. But from what I read here and there, it is possible to apply online and receive guidance to a physical temple near you.

Let me call baba @ fratermathy who can better help you.

I would also encourage you to think deeply and know why you want to join an esoteric group. It is not a light decision.

LoJ:

All the claims (or facts if you wish) you make about Amorc, LR adherents make them too. Can you specifically point out what is it about their teaching or approach that makes you original heir and others not?

I never said AMORC is a religious organisation. I have great respect for Amorc. I am saying you exhibit a religious approach to it, and it seems you do not see that.

But fair enough, if we can't talk approaches and ideologies, I have no desire to discuss how great a specific organization claims to be, which all other also claim anyways.

Bros , i think it is uncharitable of me to start comparing the principles of LR with AMORC's. I can only talk about Amorc . Maybe you can share your LR experiences too. I was only telling you they are two different entities. Amorc teaches a whole lot of subjects which may probably interest you.

PP.

futurist369:
how can I become a member of amorc in Nigeria? Not just online member, but receive physical teaching.. I heard they have a center in calamari, but I stay in Lagos;do you know of any center in Lagos?

why do you want to join AMORC sir?

Babacele:
Bros , i think it is uncharitable of me to start comparing the principles of LR with AMORC's. I can only talk about Amorc . Maybe you can share your LR experiences too. I was only telling you they are two different entities. Amorc teaches a whole lot of subjects which may probably interest you.

PP.

I do not belong to the LR.
I know very well they are two seperate entities. My initial question was, what is the AMORC perspective on them or at least what is yours.

Do you believe they have any merit? Are there similarities? Differences? Since both claim to be heirs of the same rosae cruxis tradition.

LoJ:

I do not belong to the LR.
I know very well they are two seperate entities. My initial question was, what is the AMORC perspective on them or at least what is yours.

Do you believe they have any merit? Are there similarities? Differences? Since both claim to be heirs of the same rosae cruxis tradition.

Honestly speaking, so far what I have shared here is what I can say about LR. Some other persons may have more information or perhaps, you may want to educate us as we are all open to learning.

Babacele:
why do you want to join AMORC sir?

to answer this three questions:who am I? Who created me? What this life is all about?

fratermathy:


Jesus was not a member of AMORC as AMORC is just one of the modern paths of Rosicrucianism. Jesus was influenced by Rosicrucian ideals. That is my opinion in this.

how can I join Amorc in Nigeria?i live in lagos

futurist369:
how can I join Amorc in Nigeria?i live in lagos

why do you want to be part of the rosicrucian order? this is one question they will surely ask you. and you can join online. study in the privacy of your own home where they will send you your monogrphs

futurist369:
how can I join Amorc in Nigeria?i live in lagos

there is memphis lodge in ikorodu and isis lodge in ilupeju opposite the first bank on the road that heads straight to the Oshodi- Mushin road

MiddleDimension:
why do you want to be part of the rosicrucian order? this is one question they will surely ask you. and you can join online. study in the privacy of your own home where they will send you your monogrphs

i prefer the physical lessons... Well my reasons for wanting to join is personal

futurist369:
to answer this three questions:who am I? Who created me? What this life is all about?

That is cool sir. I think you need to visit : https://www.amorc.org.ng.

Any monies paid to become a member of AMORC?

tol4biz:
Any monies paid to become a member of AMORC?

Yes sir . You pay some token as dues annually or quarterly for the lessons you shall be receiving. Don't forget it is a school sir. Please check the website for the latest dues.