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Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by malvisguy212: 12:13pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:I know you bro, and I've read your thread. your intention is clearly understood. 1 Like |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 12:22pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: It hard to grasp because you seem to be outlining a one thing and at same time saying the thing doesn't exist. In one part I am free and can do as I please then in another part I am a slave and I need liberation. You say I am exercising free will then you say I am a slave to sin. I am not understanding how I am a slave to sin and still have free will. Will my slavery to sin not compel me to commit sin? And in addition if you are liberated from sin how are you still committing sin? Is it that this liberation is not real and is just a metaphor for something else or it is a real liberation that you have not yet experienced? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 12:24pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
malvisguy212: You don't know my intention, you can guess though but if you guess wrong then you'll act wrong. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 12:26pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
malvisguy212: It doesn't matter how I became a slave, a slave a slave. That implies I have no power to remove myself from that position or else I wouldn't still be a slave does it not? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by malvisguy212: 12:35pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:but in the context of freewill and the Bible, you have the choice to remove yourself . I mean your claimed here say otherwise to reality. 1 Like |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 12:38pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:But you are told what to do in other for you not to live that life. Why not take it? You are wrong becos when you are told what to do, you shunned it. LordReed:Only, this kind of slavery he is the one holding the key. If he decides to open the door, he walks free or stay bound. LordReed:No, in this case a slave is not always a slave. If they was no propitiation/justification, then a slave wld ve always been a slave. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 12:52pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:You are a slave as long as YOU CHOOSE TO REMAIN THERE. The key has been handed over to you. 1 Like |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:06pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
malvisguy212: So I don't need the liberation from the god to remove myself? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:08pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: The key is what? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:14pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: I shunned what? The challenge to try to live a sinless life? Shepherd00: So I don't need the god? I can do it by myself? Shepherd00: The question is not one of duration but of ability. Is a slave able to free himself? If he can then what does he need with an external agency? 1 Like |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by malvisguy212: 1:20pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:yes. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 1:23pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:You are failing to acknowledge that they are two Camps here with varied approaches to things. The first Camp is YHWH's: He created every one with Perception which enables them to react to their environment. He gave everyone volition and the Will Power to Will their actions. Then the Camp of the Fallen: In this Camp, altho, one has his/her Perceptions and Volition's, their actions are controlled. Thus, Choosing which Camp to belong determines what happens further. Whether or not you choose God, you'd still have your Perceptions and Volition.(Which is what makes you different from an animal) Although, you are in the dark, He is point the beam of light on you saying, "follow me and come out". It's your choice to say 'Why did you allow me choose sin in the first place', or come out of it LordReed:Yes. You use your Free Will to put yourself into slavery. Like I said, whether or not you choose God, you still have perception and Volition. You dey put food for your nose? Shey you know the difference between your nose and your mouth? LordReed:You are a slave to sin becos, although you have the perception and Volition to know that where you are wreaks with the stench of rot, and can get up and walk away, you choose to remain there yet complain of the stench. Have you heard of 'Mental slavery?' Na you kip ya sef dia. LordReed:That's why I asked you if while you were a baby you pooed on yourself. No baby is born and gets up and begin to run. The same with being born in the Spirit. We keep slipping Until we mature. Mature Christians know the consequences of sin and sins not. (deliberately) LordReed:How did you know that Christians still sin after liberation? I mean mature Christians, not baby Christians. If we continue sinning, then there wouldn't be persecution against us, have you thought of that? Do you know that what engenders persecution is our shunning the norm? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:31pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
malvisguy212: Well that's good to know. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by tintingz(m): 1:32pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
malvisguy212:God has already made decisions for everyone if he's all-knowing and has the book of destiny. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 1:32pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:That is the thing. You don't 'try', you just accept it. The non-Christians 'try' to live a sinless life. You can't. Immediately you chose the other Camp, you forfeited your rights to live for God. LordReed:What do you mean by 'the god?' LordReed:The slave can only free himself to the extend that he makes use of his perception and Volition. If you use your Perception to turn to God, He leads you out of where you choose to keep yourself, but if not, you remain there as you are looking for absolution from yourself. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 1:33pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
tintingz:Yeah? He also made the decision that you shd turn against Him and fight His ways? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 1:37pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
tintingz:You mean God decided that you'd be a thief? Yet he says Thou shall not steal? See reasoning. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by malvisguy212: 1:45pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:am Glad. now you see, God will is for everyone to believed, but it is not that if God will everyone to believed then it's impossible not to believed,in Matthew 23:32 Jesus was willing for Jerusalem to believed but they are not willing . |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:47pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Ok lemme see if I understand you correctly. I am free to choose any thing I want, I am choosing sin only because I like sin. If I recognise sin as sin then I wouldn't choose it. Am I right so far? Now the god part is where I am lost again. Why did it require the sacrifice of Jesus to liberate me if I could just liberate myself? That's why I asked you if while you were a baby you pooed on yourself. How many mature Christians who do not sin do you know? Are you one of them? Persecuted? By whom and for what reason? I do not know of any Christian being persecuted because they do not want to sin. I assume by persecution you mean actual harm not perceived ones. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 1:50pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: "The god" is the Christian god. And if I just want to live a good life without choosing the god? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 1:54pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:You have already done so Volitionally. That is the Free Will we've been talking about here. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by tintingz(m): 2:01pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Shepherd00:I don't believe in God but let me play along. Before I was created did God knows my end and in details? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:25pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
How many mature Christians who do not sin do you know? Are you one of them? Persecuted? By whom andk for what reason? I do not know of any Christian being persecuted because they do not want to sin. I assume by persecution you mean actual harm not perceived ones.[/quote] LordReed t=79073603:Yes. LordReed t=79073603:You have not been following. I told you that there are two Camps. The one you are right now, and the Camp of Jehovah. The Fall flung you into the Camp you are right now(altho) with your Perception and Volition intact, your actions are controlled, and cannot help yourself. But, YHWH wants to help you. But, YHWH is interested in you. Take up the rope is throwing to you and He will pull you out. The Free Will is, you either take the rope or you remain there. Listen , in spiritual and divine matters, the mind, heart, and will of unreborn human beings are entirely unable to under |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 2:28pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00:Wait so free will is not about sinning but about choosing the god? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 2:30pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: I mean is it possible to live a good life without choosing the god? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:43pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:We will have discussion only when you cross over, for, as long as you recover there, you can never understand. Don't bother. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:45pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:I painted a picture for you earlier and I told you to try and see. It's not just outwardly, but intentionally too. Try it. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:46pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:Have you Chosen Him? Did someone aid you in rejecting Him? That is Free Will. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:49pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
tintingz:I know you don't believe in God, yet you want to talk abt what He can and cannot do. First answer the questions asked you, then I will treat this. Now that you reject and malign Him every chance you get, Did he choose that for you? |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 2:50pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Ok I will. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by Shepherd00: 2:51pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
LordReed:See? that is Free will. No one is forcing you to do it. So long as you can perceive and have the ability to take actions you have Free Will, how you manage it is your business. |
Re: Free Will And Freedom From Sin by LordReed(m): 2:52pm On Jun 06, 2019 |
Shepherd00: No I have not chosen the god and nobody aided my decision. |
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