₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and a "man who lies with a man"

What does Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 teach about homosexuality, and how does that apply to us as New Testament believers?

https://carm.org/leviticus-18-22

OkCornel:
Cc:

MuttleyLaff:
It is glaring that you dont know the truth, you dont know the truth of Leviticus 18:22 and leviticus 20:13.

If I am to ask you, to give the rationale for Leviticus 18:22 and/or Leviticus 20:13, and explain why and how the term abomination that appear in Leviticus 18:22 is to God, you will be chomping teeth and either run and/or take flight.

I am quite sure, you dont know that abomination iin the Bible is relative. I tell you have no idea, you have zero inches long knowledge on this subject
Who created shrimps elated177? "Ko le ye ẹ" loosely interpreted means "You cant fathom nor work out that question"

Do you know the meaning of Grace? It’s a touch of truth that lets you see the world in a new way. It’s a gift that can only be felt when you’re open enough to accept it. Old ways dont open new doors, and grace is like deodorant, people who need it most, never use it.

MuttleyLaff:
Lets start with deconstructing those first before grabbing and/or holding on to Leviticus 18:22, or its sister verse Leviticus 20:13, to explain, what they really mean, why and how the term abomination that appears in them is so to God. Romans 1:26-27, too is up for grabs as well, we can check it together and find out, what contextually that scripture is about OkCornel. Other passages are fair game, I am wiling to stand alongside you, reviewing them together

MuttleyLaff:
Everything thing, I write, can be fact checked, if only the will is there and if you don't hate reading long posts too, like some have openly admitted.

When you serve people with food in groundnut pods, those that will eat and have their fill, like kkins25 did, will be there, but people like.... hmmm.

kkins25, don't stop here, but please research on what really Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 is all about and why the reason, it is an abomination. If ambitious, then, delve into similar verses Paul wrote, to find the true and original meanings of the words used, that have since being changed and have false misleading meanings.

MuttleyLaff:
The Amorites are mentioned in the Bible as inhabitants of Canaan both before and after the conquest of the land, now God, in, Deuteronomy 12:31 said: "You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshipping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates" and Leviticus 18 gives details of many of the sinful religious practices of the Canaanites, which included child sacrifice to the god Molech, incest, bestiality, being kadesh or qadesh (i.e. which is temple prostitute and a form of homosexuality) and cultic prostitution, I have earlier, talked about why God was against the Amorites, I've talked about why Sodom and Gomorrah was planned to be destroyed, even before their attempted homosexual gang rape intention of visitor angels to the town, but all you want from me, is to cut everything up in small piece sizes, prise your mouth open and spoon feed you. Maybe I should come you tuck into bed too tonight. What time do you sleep at night, so I'll come do just that for you too, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:
Let me quickly first ask you about what the scripture says in Leviticus 20:13, as shown as follows: "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination. They must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Do you notice the Leviticus 20:13b part there, hmm? Have you been man enough to be literal, thrown stones yet to kill homosexuals, hmm? Oh no, your balls suddenly have shrivelled up at the prospect of you needing to be a literalist huh? Whats your excuse for having not to stone to death your homosexual neighbour, a fellow man, human being like you now, huh? I think for you, it seems like a good and right time to cherrypick parts of scripture, isnt it, hey?

OK, here is another one, why haven't you yet gouge out your eyes when you sin (i.e. Matthew 5:29) hmm? Or here is a good one, why don't you stone non-virgins (i.e. Deuteronomy 22:20-21) ehn? I bet you, most posters and their missus(es) on this thread including yourself and HRH, your madam weren't virgins. What happened to being a literalist there, ehn?

Ah, I've got more, plenty sef. Why do you wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (i.e. Leviticus 19:19) hey? Why do you eat catfish that has no fins and scales and other sea foods, like lobsters, crabs, shrimps etcetera (i.e. Leviticus 9:10) erh? Or why don't you give your other belongings, when you are sued in court (i.e. Matthew 5:40)

Cheyyyii!! You be confirmed and bonafide literalist indeed. You arent a literalist, as you dont literally follow the bible, you only follow and use the Bible, like a "far-to-see" Pharisee, to attack harmless, caring, loving, minding their own business minorities.

MuttleyLaff:
bloodofthelamb, I know you highly respect and hold in the utmost regard Pastor John MacArthur. Well guess what, Pastor John MacArthur, accepts and agrees with me, that the context of Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20, when talking about the Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 contents, has nothing to do with homosexuals per se, had nothing to do with acts going on between consensual adult in homosexuality, or homosexuals/lesbians and/or same sex attraction and union(s), especially one that is in, a kind, trusting, caring, loving, helpful, faithful, honest, not harmful and committed life long until death do them part relationships. He in fact, admits and concedes that, they are all what I said, it is and they are, in that my lengthy 3-part long post bloodofthelamb. I am sorry, bloodofthelamb, for being the one telling you this also, but Pastor John MacArthur, on record, actually too, admits that the context of 1 Corinthians 6:9 was temple prostitution and had nothing to do with homosexual acts per se.

Along the way bloodofthelamb, have you caught up with the latest news that happened earlier this week erh? That the pope, is pushing to have part of the word(s) in Matthew 6:9-13 Lord's Prayer in the Bible changed?

So too, Pastor John MacArthur changed his perspective on the context of 1 Corinthians 6:9 as temple prostitution matter, as well as, Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20, when talking about the Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 content subject so much that he is now saying them verses are talking about idolatry and not homosexuality. Go investigate the issue, check whether or not Pastor John MacArthur said this, in order to verify the facts. I dont do rumors nor share questionable information. Go fact check, go research everything I wrote, in that my lengthy 3-part long post, in order to verify the facts

MuttleyLaff:
now, the $64,000 question is, stating clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, what correctly, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the committed abomination that was being done before God, hmm?
(i.e. what correctly and pato, in Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, is the thing that was done, that God hates and/or detests?)

None of you guys, not even bigshot TV01, with all that his big chutzpah, ever answers those question(s)

MuttleyLaff:
What Paul was ranting about in Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 was the infidelity, promiscuity and the cult practice of having sex with patrons as a form of deity worship. This custom was rampant and happened in the Old Testament in the lands before the Israelites arrived too.

We all know leviticus 20:13 is leviticus 18:22 and vice versa, but not all, I mean the likes of TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr know or realise that, Paul actually re-echoed leviticus 20:13 and leviticus 18:22 with 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and know that the problem Paul was addressing with Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 isnt and/or wasnt about same sex relationships with fidelity but it was something else entirely different to that, which has again reared its head with the Gentile

There is this strong common thread going through Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and it ties them together but it eludes the most astute. Peoples perception of this matter isnt what they think and learned it to be.

So what is happening and/or what happened in Romans 1:25-28?
Well, for your information TV01, Sheherd00, openmine, solite3 and others, Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24, 26 & 27 is a rehash of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, like I've probably already mentioned, but with a twist

Paul, with Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24, 26 & 27, is echoing what happened around when Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 were given. He then added the twist (i.e. Romans 1:26b: ... for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature) which is, the women too, have joined to be participants in the ongoing "detestable customs practised". It essentially was like Deja Poo The feeling that Paul has "seen" and read this crap happen before way in the Canaan-Israelites days, but now in double force.

The remedy, the first step to realign, to shake off the lies, will be, for staters, to review 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9, and look into what "malakois" and "arsenokoites" really means. I strongly advise the likes of TV01, Shepherd00, openmine, jesusjnr etcetera to do just that, instead of opting to alternatively plastering their opinions and beliefs here, as opposed the truth and real meaning of those words.

The epiphany of what the "the detestable customs that were practiced" in Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 were, will sooner or later occur, after the reviews.

It is an insufferable practice for God to bear and that's why God voiced His disapproval over the detestable custom being practised

It is the only ONE reason, that this sexual sin, that this particular sexual immorality, is condemned as committing abomination unto God
whilst other sexual sins or other sexual immoralities like, adultery in Leviticus 20:10, incest in Leviticus 20:11-14 or bestiality in Leviticus 20:15, escape the mention to be condemned as an abomination unto God or as one thing, God dislikes intensely.

There are so many other places, in the bible about this satanic ritual, sex orgy and detestable custom being practised, a few case in points, like Deuteronomy 23:17 and 1 Kings 14:24, are mirror versions of Paul's 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:10, where God, said, He so much, disliked intensely, the practice.

To those, getting very well tuned in to this frequency, there is evidence of homosexual(s), during Jesus times, building "church" for the Israelites. There is evidence of homosexual(s), during Jesus time seeking Him. There is evidence of Jesus engaging with homosexual(s) and not for a single moment minded or be bothered about that. Where is the evidence of Jesus objecting to adult consensual same sex couples having a romantic faithful caring and loving relationship until death do them apart etcetera, hmm?

OLAADEGBU:
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and a "man who lies with a man"

What does Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 teach about homosexuality, and how does that apply to us as New Testament believers?

https://carm.org/leviticus-18-22

Aaronsrod:
God's Law is clear and unchanging.

We must kill them. "Their blood shall be upon them"!

Why would any Christian question this command

MuttleyLaff:
Let me quickly first ask you about what the scripture says in Leviticus 20:13, as shown as follows: "IIf a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination. They must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Do you notice the Leviticus 20:13b part there, hmm? Have you been man enough to be literal, thrown stones yet to kill homosexuals, hmm? Oh no, your balls suddenly have shrivelled up at the prospect of you needing to be a literalist huh? Whats your excuse for having not to stone to death your homosexual neighbour, a fellow man, human being like you now, huh? I think for you, it seems like a good and right time to cherrypick parts of scripture, isnt it, hey?

OK, here is another one, why haven't you yet gouge out your eyes when you sin (i.e. Matthew 5:29) hmm? Or here is a good one, why don't you stone non-virgins (i.e. Deuteronomy 22:20-21) ehn? I bet you, most posters and their missus(es) on this thread including yourself and HRH, your madam weren't virgins. What happened to being a literalist there, ehn?

Ah, I've got more, plenty sef. Why do you wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (i.e. Leviticus 19:19) hey? Why do you eat catfish that has no fins and scales and other sea foods, like lobsters, crabs, shrimps etcetera (i.e. Leviticus 9:10) erh? Or why don't you give your other belongings, when you are sued in court (i.e. Matthew 5:40)

Cheyyyii!! You be confirmed and bonafide literalist indeed. You arent a literalist, as you dont literally follow the bible, you only follow and use the Bible, like a "far-to-see" Pharisee, to attack harmless, caring, loving, minding their own business minorities.

Aaronsrod:
God's Law is clear and unchanging.

We must kill them. "Their blood shall be upon them"!

Why would any Christian question this command

MuttleyLaff:
https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult/17#79433409



















For more and detailed info or to join other interlocutors, visit:
https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult

OkCornel:
I won't go as far saying they should be stoned to death. Even the Jews whom God gave the law no longer stone people to death....

Shepherd00:
Why do leave the bone of the issue to dwell on terms?

Muttleylaff, let's talk about 'The Act of men having sex with fellow men'. Whether at home or in pagan temples.

You keep saying Paul's usage of the term is related to the temple Prostitution.

I want us to concentrate on the Act for a while not the terms or the languages used to describe the term.

Aaronsrod:
I have already declared my lifelong steadfast virginity.

I eschew all shellfish!

Also, I do not use mere stones to fulfill this scriptures. There are many, many ways to shed blood.

It is well.

MuttleyLaff:
What are these many ways to shed blood that you are talking about,erh, enlighten everyone please. Thank you very much.

Aaronsrod:
Blades, rope, fists, boots, drowning, defenestration, whips, fire, forced feeding to death, a weight of stones all a man can bear...and more, burial alive, introducing insects. All these and many more are pathways to Hell for homosexuals.

I'm available to demonstrate.

Virgin for Hire!

MuttleyLaff:
If you are really serious about all this, and prepared not to leave my questions unanswered when I ask you, of course, go ahead, ask me on the "Deconstructing lies and myth..." thread then. I'll be active there in the PM today

Aaronsrod:
Correct, my brother.
Stoning is too long and painful a death.
God is merciful.
Rather kill them with blades or by fire!
We are not Jews.
We are True Believers.

MuttleyLaff:
OK, here is another one, why haven't you yet gouge out your eyes when you sin (i.e. Matthew 5:29) hmm? Or here is a good one, why don't you stone non-virgins (i.e. Deuteronomy 22:20-21) ehn? I bet you, most posters and their missus(es) on this thread including yourself and HRH, your madam weren't virgins. Or you really are a virgin ehn? For life hmm?

Ah, never mind, I've got more, plenty sef. Why do you wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (i.e. Leviticus 19:19) hey? Why do you eat catfish that has no fins and scales and other sea foods, like lobsters, crabs, shrimps etcetera (i.e. Leviticus 9:10) erh? Or why don't you give your other belongings, when you are sued in court (i.e. Matthew 5:40)

What are these many ways to shed blood that you are talking about,erh, enlighten everyone please. Thank you very much.

MuttleyLaff:
Please repeat this, but this type used simple plain and understandable English. Thank you.

Aaronsrod:
Let a picture paint where words cannot.
So shall it be done unto them!
Behold!

MuttleyLaff:
One word will do. Psycho.

OLAADEGBU:
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and a "man who lies with a man"

What does Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 teach about homosexuality, and how does that apply to us as New Testament believers?

https://carm.org/leviticus-18-22

Aaronsrod:
God's Law is clear and unchanging.

We must kill them. "Their blood shall be upon them"!

Why would any Christian question this command

OLAADEGBU:
Lev. 18:22

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)

Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female"? The term "lie with" here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase "lie with a male as one lies with a female." It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.

117 occurrences; AV translates as "abomination" 113 times, "abominable thing" twice, and "abominable" twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1

Lev. 20:13

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (ESV)

TBC

OLAADEGBU:
The word "detestable" is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, "abomination."

There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death. But we might ask, why such harsh penalty for a simple "sexual orientation"? The answer lies in the overall context in which the Old Testament is written. God had promised the Messiah who would be the Saviour, the Deliverer of people from the judgment of God. If homosexuality was to run rampant, it would threaten the arrival of the Messiah and thereby make God's Word invalid (essentially making God a liar), and this cannot be. Since God works through people, he provided the harshness of the law in order to guard people from their own sins, the sins of others, and ultimately provide a way by which the Messiah would come and die on the cross for our sins.

Of course, the Old Testament Law is no longer in effect in this area because the Messiah has come, and we are not under a theocratic governmental system. Therefore, we are not to execute homosexuals. We are to pray for them and their repentance, so they might find salvation in Christ.

To be continued...

OLAADEGBU:
We are not under the Old Testament Law

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. This signifies that God ordained order of male and female--not male and male or female and female. This is important because it was before the Mosaic Law was given. The Mosaic Law properly reflects the created order of God that excluded homosexuality. Therefore, the argument that homosexuality is not for Christians because it was intended for Israel under the Old Testament law does not apply.

Also, this argument fails to see the difference between civil, ceremonial, and moral divisions of The Law. In addition, some laws were for Israel only, while others were for everyone. First, let's look at Leviticus since it is the book under examination.

1. Civil--Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
Law of property redemption (Lev. 25)
Be just with the poor (Lev. 19:15)
Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)

2. Ceremonial--Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).
Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57)
Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25)

3. Moral--No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:12)
Do not oppress your neighbour (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
Don't sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
Don't commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
You shall love your neighbour as yourself (Lev. 19:18).

The moral law of God is still in effect, and homosexuality is part of the moral law. So, the argument that we are not under the law fails to recognise the divisions of the law: civil, ceremonial, and moral.

Read More Here

Goshen360:
You are WRONGLY taught and you CONTINUED with that wrong teaching instead of u to be taught by the Holy Spirit. First of all, there is no such DIVIDING of the law into 3 categories. It is you law keepers that do such divisions. If you have a scripture making such 3 categories of divisions, show it to us. The law is a WHOLE ONE with many aspects and that's why a fail iin one is a fail in ALL.

2. The so called moral law u said is not expired is actually you promoting the 10 commandments and basically to Christians, that's heresy! You don't need the 10 commandments AS A CHRISTIAN TO BE MORAL......for example, Joseph didn't have thou shall not commit fornication or adultery before he flew Potiphar's wife....

Romans 2:14.......READ IT IN ALL TRANSLATIONS...... okay

Goshen360:
You are WRONGLY taught and you CONTINUED with that wrong teaching instead of u to be taught by the Holy Spirit. First of all, there is no such DIVIDING of the law into 3 categories. It is you law keepers that do such divisions. If you have a scripture making such 3 categories of divisions, show it to us. The law is a WHOLE ONE with many aspects and that's why a fail iin one is a fail in ALL.

Goshen360:
2. The so called moral law u said is not expired is actually you promoting the 10 commandments and basically to Christians, that's heresy! You don't need the 10 commandments AS A CHRISTIAN TO BE MORAL......for example, Joseph didn't have thou shall not commit fornication or adultery before he flew Potiphar's wife....

Romans 2:14.......READ IT IN ALL TRANSLATIONS...... okay

MuttleyLaff:
Goshen360, abeggy no keel pesin with laffta for here ooo.

I just like reading lies, when I know the truth. It amazes me, how people dont let the Bible ordinarily speak by itself, but people help the Bible saying things, it isnt saying and even forcibly putting words into the Bible's mouth, shoving it down its throat, choking the poor thing with shock I would suppose

OLAADEGBU:
Calm down bro. I can see your tail and nose growing longer as you continue to vent your anger at this truth. Scriptures backing up those points have been posted unless you are selective on what you want to see.



The Moral Law is one, how is that different from what is posted here? You need to get over the loss of Obama/Hilary in the last presidential election and smell the coffee. Your support for Obama is making me think that there is more to it than meets the eye.

OLAADEGBU:
We are not under the Old Testament Law

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. This signifies that God ordained order of male and female--not male and male or female and female. This is important because it was before the Mosaic Law was given. The Mosaic Law properly reflects the created order of God that excluded homosexuality. Therefore, the argument that homosexuality is not for Christians because it was intended for Israel under the Old Testament law does not apply.

Also, this argument fails to see the difference between civil, ceremonial, and moral divisions of The Law. In addition, some laws were for Israel only, while others were for everyone. First, let's look at Leviticus since it is the book under examination.

1. Civil--Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
Law of property redemption (Lev. 25)
Be just with the poor (Lev. 19:15)
Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)

2. Ceremonial--Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).
Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57)
Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25)

3. Moral--No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:12)
Do not oppress your neighbour (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
Don't sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
Don't commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
You shall love your neighbour as yourself (Lev. 19:18).

The moral law of God is still in effect, and homosexuality is part of the moral law. So, the argument that we are not under the law fails to recognise the divisions of the law: civil, ceremonial, and moral.

Read More Here

OLAADEGBU:
Some Laws Were For Israel Only, While Others Were For Everyone

There were abominations that applied only to the Jews such as eating shellfish, rabbit, and pork, things that were typologically representative of purity before the Lord. God says "Speak to the sons of Israel saying..." God then lists out the creatures which they may eat and not eat and mentions the camel, rock badger, rabbit, pig, etc., . . . God specifically addresses the dietary laws "to the sons of Israel" (Lev. 11:2) and people he has chosen out of all the nations on the earth (Deut. 14:2)--not the rest of the nations.

However, there are abominations that did not apply only to Israel--but everyone.

• "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23 Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. 24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled."

The land became defiled due to the abominations of homosexuality and bestiality from those who lived in the land before the Jews, so it is not just an issue for the Jews under the Law (Lev. 18:22-29). God considered their homosexuality to be an abomination for everyone. So, the argument that we Christians are not under the Law doesn't work because the non-Jews of ancient times were not under Jewish law, and their homosexuality was called an abomination.