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GOD Is Both Male And Female - Religion - Nairaland

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GOD Is Both Male And Female by 7victor(m): 8:01am On Sep 15, 2019
Genesis1:27 "So GOD created man in HIS own image;in the image of GOD HE created him;male and female HE created them"

The verse indicates that the word 'man' is used for both males and females.

And it equally reveals that GOD created 'man' in HIS own image.

The 'man' (Male and female) was created in GOD image.

As it is written 'Male and female HE created them'.

This shows that GOD is both male and female.


Because HE 'created him('man') in HIS own image,male and female HE created them (ie in HIS own image)'.

I am totally in submission to this biblical recognition of GOD as both male and female.

Reading through the bible,you will see that GOD/JESUS CHRIST takes almost all forms such as lamb,lion

mountain/rock(rock that followed the israelites was JESUS CHRIST),

tree(true vine is JESUS CHRIST),

water(JESUS CHRIST says come to me and drink )

and etc.

It shows that all things are in the image of GOD.

One can recognize on the highest state of awareness that all things were created in GOD's image including humans.

But for humans,they were created in GOD's image and then made in the image of GOD.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Nobody: 8:07am On Sep 15, 2019
Sorry but you're wrong!

Spirits don't have gender.

God bless.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by 7victor(m): 8:24am On Sep 15, 2019
jesusjnr:
Sorry but you're wrong!

Spirits don't have gender.

God bless.
Male and female does NOT mean having male and female sex organs as some people may think.

It means having male and female characteristics such as strength and fatherly tendencies for male and nuturing/motherly tendencies for females.

Some people even call GOD Father and Mother.

HE is not only a Father but also a Mother.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MyVILLAGEpeople(m): 8:36am On Sep 15, 2019
I read somewhere that the holy spirit is a female and her name is Shekinah. She is God wife. please how true is This??
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 8:37am On Sep 15, 2019
jesusjnr:
Sorry but you're wrong!

Spirits don't have gender.

God bless.
"Shey oro niyen", meaning is this some sort of wise talk hmm? Mtcheew
There are male and female images of God in the Bible. God is both male and female, which is why in the Bible, He is described as a comforting and nursing mother, described as a woman in labor, described as a woman looking for Her lost coin etcetera. Everyone knows God as a Father and wont dispute the maleness in God.

When I wear red clothing or drive a red car, I am projecting an image of feistiness, that I am full of energy or courage. I am spirited. The clothing or the car is not me but is just an image projecting a representation of the external and physical form of me as in done in art. We human beings are an expression of God in art projecting a representation of the external and physical form of God on earth.

7victor:
Male and female does NOT mean having male and female sex organs as some people may think.

It means having male and female characteristics such as strength and fatherly tendencies for male and nuturing/motherly tendencies for females.

Some people even call GOD Father and Mother.

HE is not only a Father but also a Mother.
Dont mind jesusjnr ojaare, he is a clown, the court jester of the Religion forum.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Amazingman(m): 8:37am On Sep 15, 2019
Something's aren't wort8trying to distinguish.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Nobody: 8:45am On Sep 15, 2019
7victor:
Male and female does NOT mean having male and female sex organs as some people may think.

It means having male and female characteristics such as strength and fatherly tendencies for male and nuturing/motherly tendencies for females.

Some people even call GOD Father and Mother.

HE is not only a Father but also a Mother.
If you had used Father and Mother it would have made sense, but male and female has to do with gender and sexual organs, hence my position on that.

And a piece of advise, please ignore that homosexualist who mentioned you and me together.

Thank you.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 9:21am On Sep 15, 2019
jesusjnr:
If you had used Father and Mother it would have made sense, but male and female has to do with gender and sexual organs, hence my position on that.

And a piece of advise, please ignore that homosexualist who mentioned you and me together.

Thank you.
You changed your tune and had your brain reset after benefiting from that education on how God is male and female without necessarily having sexual organs. My neighbour's five year knows that God has no sexual organs yet He is male and female

Next time dont be so quick to poke nose into OP's post without getting understanding what OP was talking.
Now, at the rate at which you're going, if you dont repent of your slanders, perverse theology and evil paradigms, you'll make lake of fire, last stop, hell. Yup, free transport service to the gates of hell for an ignoranus, the likes of false prophet, you.

I have been called worst names, I have been called all sorts of names under the sun, so if it makes you sleep soundly well at night, feel free to label me whatever you like, for standing up for and fighting for SSA couples
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by OpenYourEyes1: 9:31am On Sep 15, 2019
You can't limit or degrade GOD's characteristics based on your understanding. GOD is limitless. No human can comprehend HIM

1 Like

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by 33komkom(m): 9:32am On Sep 15, 2019
7victor:
Genesis1:27 "So GOD created man in HIS own image;in the image of GOD HE created him;male and female HE created them"

The verse indicates that the word 'man' is used for both males and females.

And it equally reveals that GOD created 'man' in HIS own image.

The 'man' (Male and female) was created in GOD image.

As it is written 'Male and female HE created them'.

This shows that GOD is both male and female.


Because HE 'created him('man') in HIS own image,male and female HE created them (ie in HIS own image)'.

I am totally in submission to this biblical recognition of GOD as both male and female.

Reading through the bible,you will see that GOD/JESUS CHRIST takes almost all forms such as lamb,lion

mountain/rock(rock that followed the israelites was JESUS CHRIST),

tree(true vine is JESUS CHRIST),

water(JESUS CHRIST says come to me and drink )

and etc.

It shows that all things are in the image of GOD.

One can recognize on the highest state of awareness that all things were created in GOD's image including humans.

But for humans,they were created in GOD's image and then made in the image of GOD.



Just talk say brother they marry sister e for make sense pass.
Nonsense and bubu
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Nggs121: 9:41am On Sep 15, 2019
My man this is incorrect

God is transgender

He prefers to go by the noun them

He is also partial to anal sex

1 Like

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by CAPSLOCKED: 9:51am On Sep 15, 2019
MyVILLAGEpeople:
I read somewhere that the holy spirit is a female and her name is Shekinah. She is God wife. please how true is This??


VERY TRUE. THAT'S WHY THE CORRECT SPELLING IS HOELY SPIRIT.
ALSO, NOBODY BEATS HER AT TWERKING AND HOEING AROUND.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by CAPSLOCKED: 9:56am On Sep 15, 2019
OpenYourEyes1:
You can't limit or degrade GOD's characteristics based on your understanding. GOD is limitless. No human can comprehend HIM

NO NEED TO COMPREHEND HIM BECAUSE THE MORE WE TRY TO, THE MORE WE BY OURSELVES CREATE MORE TWISTS THAT MAKE US NOT TO COMPREHEND HIM.

BEST WE CAN DO IS TO GIVE UP ALL THE GOD IDEAS AND ACCEPT THAT ALL WE HAVE IS THIS LIFE AND THE LAWS OF NATURE.
MAYBE THEN LIFE WILL BE EASIER AND SMOOTHER FOR ALL OF US I THINK.

1 Like

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 9:57am On Sep 15, 2019
Nggs121:
My man this is incorrect
God is transgender
Go re-check what transgender actually means my dear sir

Nggs121:
He prefers to go by the noun them
He is also partial to anal sex
Mother earth and fatherland, your country of origin, are they about having sexual organs?
God goes by the pronoun He, because we live in a patriarchal world
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Nggs121: 10:01am On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
Go re-check what transgender actually means my dear sir

Mother earth and fatherland, your country of origin, are they about having sexual organs?
God goes by the pronoun He, because we live in a patriarchal world

My man a person of either sex can have anal sex

God loves anal sex.

In the book of yeezus it said'' and angel Michael poled the shithole of the lord with his pole,and the lord was well pleased''

So who are you to argue with a book inspired by god??

God himself wants us to discard all the former pronouns and address him with the pronoun them

Amen

*spits*

1 Like

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 10:07am On Sep 15, 2019
CAPSLOCKED:
VERY TRUE. THAT'S WHY THE CORRECT SPELLING IS HOELY SPIRIT.
ALSO, NOBODY BEATS HER AT TWERKING AND HOEING AROUND
What and were are your evidences of the twerking and hoeing around?.

If you arent aware, please be informed that Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:31
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men"
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by CAPSLOCKED: 10:21am On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
What and were are your evidences of the twerking and hoeing around?.

If you arent aware, please be informed that Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:31
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men"

I AM BOUND TO YOUR THREATENING DOCTRINES THE SAME WAY YOU'RE BOUND TO MY DOCTRINE THAT SAYS IN GOOB 6:32. "HE THAT DOESN'T ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE VERY IMPORTANT ACT OF MASTURBATĮON AND DRINK HIS LIFE TO STUPOR AT EVERY CHANCE, WILL NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF MY FATHER".

IT IS THERE IN THE BOOK OF GOOB WHERE HE SAID SO. AND IT'S THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

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Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 10:31am On Sep 15, 2019
CAPSLOCKED:
I AM BOUND TO YOUR THREATENING DOCTRINES THE SAME WAY YOU'RE BOUND TO MY DOCTRINE THAT SAYS IN GOOB 6:32. "HE THAT DOESN'T ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE VERY IMPORTANT ACT OF MASTURBATĮON AND DRINK HIS LIFE TO STUPOR AT EVERY CHANCE, WILL NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF MY FATHER".

IT IS THERE IN THE BOOK OF GOOB WHERE HE SAID SO. AND IT'S THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
It is a free world, and of course you are permitted to exercise your freewill, but out of curiosity and rapt interest, who is this father of yours? What is this your father's name?

Goob, by the way and fyi, means slang for someone who is silly or stupid. A shortening of "goober." That guy's a total goob—I can't ask him to prom!
Goob - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/goob
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Dantedasz(m): 12:59pm On Sep 15, 2019
CAPSLOCKED:


I AM BOUND TO YOUR THREATENING DOCTRINES THE SAME WAY YOU'RE BOUND TO MY DOCTRINE THAT SAYS IN GOOB 6:32. "HE THAT DOESN'T ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE VERY IMPORTANT ACT OF MASTURBATĮON AND DRINK HIS LIFE TO STUPOR AT EVERY CHANCE, WILL NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF MY FATHER".

IT IS THERE IN THE BOOK OF GOOB WHERE HE SAID SO. AND IT'S THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


Yes, I've read this book and I believe every word in it is the word of god. Why do I believe the book is the word of god? I believe it because the book says so in black and white! undecided

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Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Sheunma: 1:30pm On Sep 15, 2019
CAPSLOCKED:


I AM BOUND TO YOUR THREATENING DOCTRINES THE SAME WAY YOU'RE BOUND TO MY DOCTRINE THAT SAYS IN GOOB 6:32. "HE THAT DOESN'T ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE VERY IMPORTANT ACT OF MASTURBATĮON AND DRINK HIS LIFE TO STUPOR AT EVERY CHANCE, WILL NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF MY FATHER".

IT IS THERE IN THE BOOK OF GOOB WHERE HE SAID SO. AND IT'S THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
bros abeg where i fit download or buy this book of goob?

1 Like

Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by lecturer50(m): 1:59pm On Sep 15, 2019
7victor:
I am totally in submission to this biblical recognition of GOD as both male and female.


One can recognize on the highest state of awareness that all things were created in GOD's image including humans.
I like your use of words.

You write like a philosopher.

The way they play with words is amazing sometimes.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 2:40pm On Sep 15, 2019
Dantedasz:
Yes, I've read this book and I believe every word in it is the word of god. Why do I believe the book is the word of god? I believe it because the book says so in black and white! undecided
As for book of Goob, goob by the way and fyi, means slang for someone who is silly or stupid. A shortening of "goober." That guy's a total goob—I can't ask him to prom!
Goob - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/goob

Sheunma:
bros abeg where i fit download or buy this book of goob?
Incredible. When the devil has finally had enough, not everyone will be lucky.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Dantedasz(m): 2:54pm On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
As for book of Goob, goob by the way and fyi, means slang for someone who is silly or stupid. A shortening of "goober." That guy's a total goob—I can't ask him to prom!
Goob - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/goob

Incredible. When the devil has finally had enough, not everyone will be lucky.

As a rabid RELIGIONIST I don't expect you to see what I was doing and even if you could see,I expect you to pretend not to see.
What is the difference between the books in the bible and the book of Goob?
What is the difference between the book of Goob and for instance the book of genesis? Both books are written by men claiming inspiration of a god. Both are possibly filled with inconsistencies and contradictions like all books from gods. undecided
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 3:13pm On Sep 15, 2019
Dantedasz:
As a rabid RELIGIONIST I don't expect you to see what I was doing and even if you could see, I expect you to pretend not to see.
I have been called worst names, being called virtually all sorts of names under the sun. This one you labelled me, feels more like a compliment. You should do better than that next time.

How do you prefer your bottle of orijin? Chilled cold or room temperature? Sombori give this guy a bottle of orijin and a truckload of kolanuts. Of course I saw, but I wanted to see you squirm confusedly.

Dantedasz:
What is the difference between the books in the bible and the book of Goob?
What is the difference between the book of Goob and for instance the book of genesis? Both books are written by men claiming inspiration of a god. Both are possibly filled with inconsistencies and contradictions like all books from gods. undecided
The difference is one is about a God with capital G, the other isnt. The difference is one is a prophetic and fulfilling book the other book of Goob isnt. Another difference, is one hasnt got seeemingly inconsistencies and contradictions that arent each and all are explainable and easily understood, because if you know, you know, and who no know, no go know, so thinking there are inconsistencies and contradictions when there arent. The book of Goob, is just as its name the word goob is, it is full of stupidity, silliness and daftness. Nothing prophetic about it, nothing revelatory about it. It's just an outright shameless sham fantasy book full of gobbledygook.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Dantedasz(m): 3:50pm On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
I have been called worst names, being called virtually all sorts of names under the sun. This one you labelled me, feels more like a compliment. You should do better than that next time.

How do you prefer your bottle of orijin? Chilled cold or room temperature? Sombori give this guy a bottle of orijin and a truckload of kolanuts. Of course I saw, but I wanted to see you squirm confusedly.

The difference is one is about a God with capital G, the other isnt. The difference is one is a prophetic and fulfilling book the other book of Goob isnt. Another difference, is one hasnt got seeemingly inconsistencies and contradictions that arent each and all are explainable and easily understood, because if you know, you know, and who no know, no go know, so thinking there are inconsistencies and contradictions when there arent. The book of Goob, is just as its name the word goob is, it is full of stupidity, silliness and daftness. Nothing prophetic about it, nothing revelatory about it. It's just an outright shameless sham fantasy book full of gobbledygook.

Squirm confusedly?? Son,you must mistake me for yourself or one of your fellow rabid religionists.
If any book in the world contained the gobbledygook and inconsistencies in the Bible,would you take the contents serious? For a second just be honest with yourself for once in your life. embarassed

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Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 4:18pm On Sep 15, 2019
Dantedasz:
Squirm confusedly?? Son, you must mistake me for yourself or one of your fellow rabid religionists
You dont know your place sha. Who you calling son, huh? Shebi its you, you're my customer daa-daa ni. How would I mistake my good and loyal customer

Dantedasz:
If any book in the world contained the gobbledygook and inconsistencies in the Bible,would you take the contents serious? For a second just be honest with yourself for once in your life. embarassed
I have already said that the Bible is a prophetic and fulfilling book, unlike the other book of Goob, which isnt. Another thing about the Bible, is that it hasnt got any seemingly inconsistencies and alleged contradictions that arent each and all explainable and easily understood, because if you know, you know, and who no know, no go know, and be thinking there are inconsistencies and contradictions when there arent. The book of Goob, is just as its name the word goob is, it is a book full of stupidity, silliness and daftness. Nothing prophetic about it, nothing revelatory about it. It's just an outright shameless sham fantasy book full of gobbledygook.

Now give me your best shot out of all your, the seemingly inconsistencies and alleged contradictions in the Bible, if it wont be explained to you. C'mon, bring it on.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Dantedasz(m): 4:36pm On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
You dont know your place sha. Who you calling son, huh? Shebi its you, you're my customer daa-daa ni. How would I mistake my good and loyal customer

I have already said that the Bible is a prophetic and fulfilling book, unlike the other book of Goob, which isnt. Another thing about the Bible, is that it hasnt got any seemingly inconsistencies and alleged contradictions that arent each and all explainable and easily understood, because if you know, you know, and who no know, no go know, and be thinking there are inconsistencies and contradictions when there arent. The book of Goob, is just as its name the word goob is, it is a book full of stupidity, silliness and daftness. Nothing prophetic about it, nothing revelatory about it. It's just an outright shameless sham fantasy book full of gobbledygook.

Now give me your best shot out of all your, the seemingly inconsistencies and alleged contradictions in the Bible, if it wont be explained to you. C'mon, bring it on.

Look son,you don't want me to go down this route with you. You and I know that the bible is a book of fairy tales and is a product of the imagination of primitive men. No single passage in that book is inspired by any god sitting on an imaginary golden throne in an imaginary sky cocoon called heaven. It is just imagination. That is why it is filled up with contradictions and gobbledygook like talking donkeys,talking snakes and virgin births. I repeat again none of it is true or real.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about contradictions because any time I finish talking with religionists I always feel like I was slamming my brains against a concrete wall of irrationality.
undecided
I have told you your bible is filled with astounding rubbish. It is up to you to prove to me it isn't. undecided

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Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 5:34pm On Sep 15, 2019
Dantedasz:
Look son, you don't want me to go down this route with you.
Go look for your son elsewhere and quit behaving like a wannabe father. You better not want to go down this route with me because if you did, I would drag you down places you'll becoming uncomfortable in, that you'll end up screaming for mercy and shouting blue murder

Dantedasz:
You and I know that the bible is a book of fairy tales and is a product of the imagination of primitive men. No single passage in that book is inspired by any god sitting on an imaginary golden throne in an imaginary sky cocoon called heaven. It is just imagination. That is why it is filled up with contradictions and gobbledygook like talking donkeys, talking snakes and virgin births. I repeat again none of it is true or real.
People might have called me a chicken, but one thing for sure, if I really am a chicken, I am no spring chicken. I have given you an opportunity to shine, by asking you to give me your best shot, out of all your, the seemingly inconsistencies and alleged contradictions in the Bible, if it wont be explained to you. C'mon, bring it on, why the sudden cold feet, hmm?

Dantedasz:
I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about contradictions because any time I finish talking with religionists I always feel like I was slamming my brains against a concrete wall of irrationality.
undecided
You know me Dantedasz, that I dont do arguments. Dantedasz when you lay your crooked stick(s) down before me, I dont need to argue with you, I dont need to explain how crooked your stick is. All and the only thing, I need just to do, is lay a straight stick down by the side of yours, and wallah, the work is well done, your crooked stick, error and you will stand embarrassed and ashamed.

I love it when you slam your head against concrete walls, by some divine retribution, maybe your brain will hard reset from keep on doing just that

Dantedasz:
I have told you your bible is filled with astounding rubbish. It is up to you to prove to me it isn't. undecided
One man's rubbish is another man's treasure. The bible for one man is garbage, and its another man's unerring truth. One man's toxic waste is another man's potpourri. It not up to me to prove to you anything isnt.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by Dantedasz(m): 6:38pm On Sep 15, 2019
MuttleyLaff:
Go look for your son elsewhere and quit behaving like a wannabe father. You better not want to go down this route with me because if you did, I would drag you down places you'll becoming uncomfortable in, that you'll end up screaming for mercy and shouting blue murder


Stop getting hot under the collar because you hate me calling you "son."
If you religionists can dish it out,you should be able to take.

"Drag me down to places you"ll become uncomfortable in....: "
This is just so hilarious on an anonymous forum! You religionists just have an over bloated impression of yourselves and your silly religion.
You must think I believe in heaven and hell. Listen closely sonny,I don't believe in anything in your fairy book. You don't scare me one bit because you cant scare me with your gods silly incinerator.
I am done talking to you! lipsrsealed
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 7:16pm On Sep 15, 2019
Dantedasz:
Stop getting hot under the collar because you hate me calling you "son"
Why should I hate you for calling me son? Who is hating you? I am just telling you to go find your real son to start playing dad and fatherhood with him, not a make believe son, on a faceless and anonymous forum

Dantedasz:
If you religionists can dish it out, you should be able to take.
I give as much as I take. I confidently can hold my ground, stand, maintain it and even grab yours. I dont retreat or lose advantage in the face of opposition.

Dantedasz:
"Drag me down to places you"ll become uncomfortable in....: "
This is just so hilarious on an anonymous forum! You religionists just have an over bloated impression of yourselves and your silly religion.
You must think I believe in heaven and hell.
Yes ooo, I'll drag you, leaving you screaming and kicking silly back, wishing you're not any further dragged in. Slamming your head on concrete walls will be child's play compared to what you'll be put through

Dantedasz:
Listen closely sonny, I don't believe in anything in your fairy book. You don't scare me one bit because you cant scare me with your gods silly incinerator.
You're stiff scared wannabe father, if not you wouldnt by yourself have brought up an incinerator, something we've never brought up in our today's so far interaction

Dantedasz:
I am done talking to you! lipsrsealed
An areligionist coward is a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do something perceived as being dangerous. The coward gets scared, so quickly and early quits. Never expect a coward to stand up for his/her bad bullshits, he/she lacks the courage, so quickly thinks with his/her feet and are very good at making sharpish quick exits
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by 7victor(m): 7:33pm On Sep 15, 2019
.
Re: GOD Is Both Male And Female by MuttleyLaff: 7:49pm On Sep 15, 2019
7victor:
Please note this:

Some people that are posting in nairaland and other forums are not human beings.

Some are demons.

So please be careful of who you are quoting and arguing with online.

Some of these demons and spirits beings like attacking the bible,

and they also like attacking and blaspheming the saviour of mankind (JESUS CHRIST).

Just like:Not every one you see in the market is a human being.

Some are demons and spirit beings.

Now this demonic entities are chatting with us online.

A word is enough for the wise.
"Ofeshe lu. Aiya kata
Ofeshe gba. Aiya kata
Ofeshe woh. Aiya kata
Ofeshe weng. Aiya kata
Many posters as you see dem
Na different disguise dem dey oh
Demon(s) in human skin
Demon(s) e put u tie oh
Demon(s) e wear agbada
Demon(s) e put u suit u
These disguising demons ee-oh, na wah for dem
"
- Edited from Abami Eda's Beasts of No Nation

Nwanne you give demons too much credit than they deserve

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