CodeTemplar:

You inserted what I haven't said into my comment and still further changed its interpretation from its simple meaning before going on to reply to it. If you are serious, back up your own arguments with relevant scriptures and stop replying to figments of your own imagination.

NB: If you want to debate about the identity of the bible itself you can open another thread for it.

OK, I agree.
I inserted what you haven't said in your comment.
But can you please explain what you mean by

If I follow that ur interpretation then no part of the bible is for non-Jews.

Because, certainty, it means no part of tithing is for non-Jews as I have earlier said which is very true.

Edu3Again:
The law of tithing died in the with Jesus on the Cross, thats why Jesus never collected tithes.

Before Jesus died they offered sacrifices,after His death they stopped.
Remember Jesus asked a man to offer sacrifices according to moses.

Matthew 8:4
And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way,
shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

When Jesus died & rose , people no more offered sacrifices.

Likewise Jesus said to the Pharisees they needn't neglect tithing as He Jesus had not yet died.

Once Him Jesus died,the law of tithes died with Him.

Jesus never collected tithes,the Apostles never collected tithes.

So who are these fake pastors to collect tithes?

Lets assume we want to follow the Law of tithing,they why dont they share the tithes with
the widows & poor?

Why do only the big pastor take the tithes?

Deuteronomy 26:12
When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year,
which is[b] the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger,
the fatherless, and the widow,[/b] that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

If the Pastorenurs are serious about the law of tithing then let them share the tithes
with the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow!

Now who is now the Levite?

So you can see that the Pastors are simply enriching themselves

Then why did Jesus endorse it in Mathew 23:23?

CodeTemplar:


Then why did Jesus endorse it in Mathew 23:23?

My friend, Jesus didn't endorse tithing. Try to sit down and understand the Bible when you read it. Why do you keep misinterpreting the Bible just to continue spreading you satanic doctrines of material prosperity.
I already told you Jesus was pointing out to the pharisees the wrong they were doing as under the Old testament. Jesus never told His desciples under the new testament to tithe like they do under the old covenant.

UceeGod:

My friend, Jesus didn't endorse tithing. Try to sit down and understand the Bible when you read it. Why do you keep misinterpreting the Bible just to continue spreading you satanic doctrines of material prosperity.
I already told you Jesus was pointing out to the pharisees the wrong they were doing as under the Old testament. Jesus never told His desciples under the new testament to tithe like they do under the old covenant.

If you claim it was under old testament where exactly was it discontinued in the new testament?


You know you are twisting scriptures even without pointing it out to you.


2 Peter 1:20 clearly tells us no scripture or prophecy is of any private interpretation so that trash about Jesus addressing the Pharisees alone won't fly here.
Even if you remain stubborn in the face of scriptural back up then it simply means all the words of Jesus are contextual according the particular person(s) He was addressing. That will be a disastrous foundation for you to build your points upon.

CodeTemplar:


Then why did Jesus endorse it in Mathew 23:23?

As I explained that Jesus had not died so the law was in effect.

Just as Jesus asked them to offer sacrifice, He okayed them to paying tithes


Who is better to collect tithes than Jesus?

Yet Jesus did not.

CodeTemplar:
If you claim it was under old testament where exactly was it discontinued in the new testament?


You know you are twisting scriptures even without pointing it out to you.


2 Peter 1:20 clearly tells us no scripture or prophecy is of any private interpretation so that trash about Jesus addressing the Pharisees alone won't fly here.
Even if you remain stubborn in the face of scriptural back up then it simply means all the words of Jesus are contextual according the particular person(s) He was addressing. That will be a disastrous foundation for you to build your points upon.

2 Peter 1 : 20 - knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation
You twisted this passage my friend
Pray that God gives you understanding, you need it urgently. Plus you should try to know the meaning of prophecy, compare with what Jesus said in Matthew 23v23 and see who is twisting the Bible

CodeTemplar:
I thought it good to hear the opinion of those who hitherto opposed prosperity of churches as entities and tithing.

Zechariah 1:17
Cry yet, saying, Thus said the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; And the LORD shall yet comfort Zi'on, and shall yet chose Jerusalem.



As for tithe, Jesus Himself says in Mathew 23:23;


Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.



Explanation.
We have three values or instructions or commandments. The scribes ignored them. They are judgement, mercy and faith but paid tithes and Jesus told them
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
.

Tithes are to be collected but to be used in assisting those who are in need in the church and also for charity purposes as well as in the equipping and maintenance of the church.
Those who think otherwise should go and tell their pastors their views on tithes or better still attend a Sunday school or bible study program of their church to make their points.
When he saw the Jews selling in the temple of God he was against it by scattering their products which they sold.
If he was also against tithes don't you think he would have also done the same thing.

Love4God:

Tithes are to be collected but to be used in assisting those who are in need in the church and also for charity purposes as well as in the equipping and maintenance of the church.
Those who think otherwise should go and tell their pastors their views on tithes or better still attend a Sunday school or bible study program of their church to make their points.
When he saw the Jews selling in the temple of God he was against it by scattering their products which they sold.
If he was also against tithes don't you think he would have also done the same thing.

That's for the opposer's of tithe to answer o. me I pay it and preach it.

Tithe was recorded before the law when Abraham returned with his trained army.

Tithing did not originate from the priesthood if aaron but from that of melchizedek priest of the most high God.
Abraham by faith paid tithe to the priest melchizedek as a recognition that God is the source of all that he owned.

Those who tithe do the same, following Abraham's foot step.

solite3:
Tithing did not originate from the priesthood if aaron but from that of melchizedek priest of the most high God.
Abraham by faith paid tithe to the priest melchizedek as a recognition that God is the source of all that he owned.

Those who tithe do the same, following Abraham's foot step.

OK

solite3:
Tithing did not originate from the priesthood if aaron but from that of melchizedek priest of the most high God.

Abraham by faith paid tithe to the priest melchizedek as a recognition that God is the source of all that he owned.

Those who tithe do the same, following Abraham's foot step.

Tithing originated from a Mesopotamia practice that prevailed pre and post the Abraham's living days. Abraham paid tithe after winning a fighting battle over four kings. The practice and onus was upon the victor of such or any battle/war to give a tenth of the spoils of war to a reputable priest cum ruler of his/her choice. Abraham decided that Melchizedek is his choice, so paid the tenth/tithe to him, received a blessing, and the rest of the story is now history.

Melchizedek was a ruler cum priest of the Most God, but didn't know God same way Abraham did or have the same kind of relationship Abraham had with God. This is evidenced on how Abraham corrected Melchizedek after he misaddressed God

MuttleyLaff:
Tithing originated from a Mesopotamia practice that prevailed pre and post the Abraham's living days.

one thing is clear here,Tithing existed before the law. That it was practiced in mesopotamia is immaterial here. Abraham was a man of faith who knew the prinsiples of faith.

Abraham paid tithe after winning a fighting battle over four kings. The practice and onus was upon the victor of such or any battle/war to give a tenth of the spoils of war to a reputable priest cum ruler of his/her choice. Abraham decided that Melchizedek is his choice, so paid the tenth/tithe to him, received a blessing, and the rest of the story is now history.

Melchizedek was a ruler cum priest of the Most God, but didn't know God same way Abraham did or have the same kind of relationship Abraham had with God. This is evidenced on how Abraham corrected Melchizedek after he misaddressed God

@ boled Abraham was blessed right after he tithed. End of story
At second bold, how did melchizedek misaddressed God and how did Abraham corrected him?

solite3:
one thing is clear here,Tithing existed before the law. That it was practiced in mesopotamia is immaterial here. Abraham was a man of faith who knew the principles of faith.

I am please you agree and accept that tithing started before Abraham ever thought or considered doing it. Also glad you agree and accept that tithing
started before the Levitical tithing law. Now here is where it becomes more interesting and how this info is cogent and material, God would always use whatever He knows you are familiar with for His purpose, will, glory and honour. Case in point, Abraham original was a pagan, an idol worshipper as it were, before hearing from God to leave Ur and renounce all those practice's associated with them, which would include child sacrifices etcetere, but lo and behold, when it suited God, He one day tested Abraham with an act He knew Abraham is familiar with, he probably has witness neighbours, friends, other family members do this countless times. The point is that, Abraham was used to the practice and God wouldn't be telling him to do something like sacrificing his son Isaac that is new or strange to Abraham. Child sacrificing along with tithing is a practice done well back in the secular world even before Abraham was born. Tithing was a common practice where it is given to the gods, via a priest to bless it and a ruler to receive it.

solite3:
@ boled Abraham was blessed right after he tithed. End of story

Every tithe, originally and from a secular perspective needs a priest because of this blessing aspect. Customary practice necessitated that Abraham should give tithe after returning victorious from the taking up arms and fighting other people. Abraham selected Melchizedek because they serve the same God. Please be humble, fact check anything I write, instead of taking them lightly.

solite3:
At second bold, how did melchizedek misaddressed God and how did Abraham corrected him?

solite3, oh, so you don't know, you never noticed how Melchizedek incompletely addressed God when blessing Abraham, needing Abraham to correct and setting the record straight with his response to Melchizedek, hmm?

Go re-read Abraham's response, there you will find and see how he corrected him. If you are still unable to, then I'll show you and even spell out how from both their interactions, OK?

CodeTemplar:


Then why did Jesus endorse it in Mathew 23:23?

Jesus Christ was under the law, the new testament had NOT being in force yet because he had not died. HEBREWS says the testament is NOT in force until the death of the testator. Jesus said many other things y dont you pick them also as an endorsement? He told the man he healed to go perform all that Moses commanded in the law. Do you do that when ever you are healed? He told the disciples to not go except to the lost tribes of Israel, do you minister to the lost tribe of Israel?

We need to understand that these scriptures are historical events addressed to a certain people. It's common error for people to claim the blessings of the law but forget that the was written to the nation Israel and not to the gentiles because the gentiles were not the chosen people. Now we are grafted in by faith as Roman 11 tells us so what makes us beleive after becoming Israleites but faith of Abraham Roman 4 we now want to act in the law This is what Paul meant in galatians when he said having began in the faith y continue in the law

UceeGod:

2 Peter 1 : 20 - knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation
You twisted this passage my friend
Pray that God gives you understanding, you need it urgently. Plus you should try to know the meaning of prophecy, compare with what Jesus said in Matthew 23v23 and see who is twisting the Bible

How I
was the passage twisted? You used a blind accusation to bail out.

Mr. CodeTemplar, I went through this thread and all the comments made so far, the statements by most of the members that have posted here, would have been enough to convince you about the tithing issue and Christianity, but your replies have given you away as someone who just want to post for the purpose of arguments, without coming to an agreement. what I mean is you know what you want and you have chosen to believe what you want to believe.

Just for your info. when Jesus was a kid he followed his parents to the tabernacle for the Passover feast( Luke 2:41-52), does this mean as Christians we are to go over to Jerusalem every year for the Passover? Moreover, Jesus adjusted the Passover ceremony before his death to the Communion we now practice, it was held in Jerusalem too, So I ask are we to visit Jerusalem every time we want to do the Holy communion? do read and understand, don't take everything your pastor preach hook line and sinker, read and understand.

We are Christians, we follow Christ, so I ask, did Jesus Christ ask his disciples to pay tithe to him, or is there any record of the disciples paying tithe to Christ? after His resurrection and ascension, is there any record of the Apostles paying tithe or asking the Christians to pay tithe, is there any record of any of his disciples asking or stating that Christians should pay tithe?

Tithe is not for Christians, Christians are to give "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." - 2 Corinthians 9:7. Shikenna. there are even so many scriptures covering this.

Christians are not Jews, the old testament is there to show you how God moved in times past, as Paul would say in Colossians 2 "Ït was a shadow of things to come." Christ has come and has fulfilled all those Laws. we live in Christ and we do not live by those Laws.

If you want to tithe like Abraham, it's your business, but make sure you make it clear that it's not your all you are giving, so you dont get punished like Ananias and Saphira.

Peace be unto you as you go and read the bible prayerfully to find answers for yourself.

xerxes456:
Mr. CodeTemplar, I went through this thread and all the comments made so far, the statements by most of the members that have posted here, would have been enough to convince you about the tithing issue and Christianity, but your replies have given you away as someone who just want to post for the purpose of arguments, without coming to an agreement. what I mean is you know what you want and you have chosen to believe what you want to believe.

Just for your info. when Jesus was a kid he followed his parents to the tabernacle for the Passover feast( Luke 2:41-52), does this mean as Christians we are to go over to Jerusalem every year for the Passover? Moreover, Jesus adjusted the Passover ceremony before his death to the Communion we now practice, it was held in Jerusalem too, So I ask are we to visit Jerusalem every time we want to do the Holy communion? do read and understand, don't take everything your pastor preach hook line and sinker, read and understand.

We are Christians, we follow Christ, so I ask, did Jesus Christ ask his disciples to pay tithe to him, or is there any record of the disciples paying tithe to Christ? after His resurrection and ascension, is there any record of the Apostles paying tithe or asking the Christians to pay tithe, is there any record of any of his disciples asking or stating that Christians should pay tithe?

Tithe is not for Christians, Christians are to give "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." - 2 Corinthians 9:7. Shikenna. there are even so many scriptures covering this.

Christians are not Jews, the old testament is there to show you how God moved in times past, as Paul would say in Colossians 2 "Ït was a shadow of things to come." Christ has come and has fulfilled all those Laws. we live in Christ and we do not live by those Laws.

If you want to tithe like Abraham, it's your business, but make sure you make it clear that it's not your all you are giving, so you dont get punished like Ananias and Saphira.

Peace be unto you as you go and read the bible prayerfully to find answers for yourself.

Irrelevant facts mixed with bias is all you have up here.
You skillfully avoided the words of Jesus in Mathew 23:23 regarding tithe in your bid to mix thing up purposefully.
I have read my bible and expect you to read yours, plus when you think you have a point finally, back it up with scriptures and stop the emotional part of your rants that gives you up.

Mathew 23:23 talked about paying tithe as part of the Law which the Scribes and Pharisees took more seriously than other aspects of the Law. so you're saying because of this we should pay tithe ( as part of the law).

From your assertions, I can conclude that we should follow all the laws in the old testament then. this means we should go back to the book of Deuteronomy, Leviticus etc and follow all that is written there, isn't it?

Afteral if you look at that passage very well, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.".

it shows there are lighter and weightier matters of the Law, and if we follow the weightier ones, we shouldn't leave the lighter ones out and vice versa.

so, please go and buy Rams and Goats take it to your priests (Pastors (who are even supposed to wear aprons and robes)) and do your sacrifices, ensure you travel to Jerusalem for the Passover so it can be accepted, also your tithes is suppose to be of mint and anise and cummin not money.

Wasn't tithe in existence before the law was given? Na wah oh...

UceeGod:
No where in the Bible did Christ ask His desciples to preach about material prosperity. No where did Christ tell His desciples to organise church and mandate people to pay tithes.
The only gospel Christ commisioned His desciples to preach is about His Kingdom - Matthew 4:23, 9:35, Mark 16:15, Luke 9:6
The gospel of the Kingdom of God is about freedom from the dominion of Sin, peace in this troublesome world and Life in eternity. The gospel is often accompanied by signs of healing anf deliverance from demonic possession. The gospel of Christ's Kingdom never promises material wealth but God blesses anyone He deems fit according to His purpose, even unbelievers.
Success and prosperity in God's Kingdom is not ideally the same with that of the world. Unfortunately, prosperity and success is now seen in "churches" today just the way the world sees them. Prosperity in Christ's descipleship are the spiritual blessings that come with a heart and soul devoted entirely to Christ - giving the best of what you are and what you have to God's purpose regardless of the obstacles, which also includes your money (not necessarily 10%).

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

CodeTemplar:
Wasn't tithe in existence before the law was given? Na wah oh...

Yes it was but it wasn't compulsory, it wasn't a criterion for anything...

"Now [remember] this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows generously [that blessings may come to others] will also reap generously [and be blessed]. 7 Let each one give [thoughtfully and with purpose] just as he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver [and delights in the one whose heart is in his gift]. 8 And God is able to make all grace [every favor and earthly blessing] come in abundance to you, so that you may always [under all circumstances, regardless of the need] have complete sufficiency in everything [being completely self-sufficient in Him], and have an abundance for every good work and act of charity." (2 Cor.9:6-8 amp)
The above scripture should serve as a guide for a Christian to give whether in the local church, in the homes, in the family, in the kindred, in the office, to the needy e.t.c.
Jesus Christ did not condemn tithing because He was talking to the jews and their traditions, He was also a jew however he was pointing out things in their tradition which will make them to see the *incompleteness in trying to observe the law without the spirit of the law* which is *first believing in Him as Lord and Savior*
Anyone who *bears the LIFE OF CHRIST JESUS PERSONALLY* is prompted by His Spirit to engage in what we provide financial profit, who to share his finances with, what percentage to give and when to give without being told by any pastor/priest or given an ultimatum "if you do not pay tithe, sow seed, give offering....you will die or go to hell or devourers will eat up your financial source"
The person who started giving tithe in the bible is Abraham, God did not force him to do that, the priest Melchizedek did not force him to give tithe, He did not give it in order to buy God's blessings, it was after the Priest had prayed for him and blessed him that He decided to give him that 10% just to appreciate him thus "Then after Abram’s return from the defeat (slaughter) of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). 18 [c]Melchizedek king of Salem (ancient Jerusalem) brought out bread and wine [for them]; he was the priest of [d]God Most High. 19 And Melchizedek blessed Abram and said,

“Blessed (joyful, favored) be Abram by God Most High,
Creator and Possessor of heaven and earth;
20
And blessed, praised, and glorified be God Most High,
Who has given your enemies into your hand.”

And Abram gave him a tenth of all [the treasure he had taken in battle]" (Genesis 14:17-20 amp)
GREAT GRACE BRETHREN!!!

ochibuogwu5:
"Now [remember] this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows generously [that blessings may come to others] will also reap generously [and be blessed]. 7 Let each one give [thoughtfully and with purpose] just as he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver [and delights in the one whose heart is in his gift]. 8 And God is able to make all grace [every favor and earthly blessing] come in abundance to you, so that you may always [under all circumstances, regardless of the need] have complete sufficiency in everything [being completely self-sufficient in Him], and have an abundance for every good work and act of charity." (2 Cor.9:6-8 amp)
The above scripture should serve as a guide for a Christian to give whether in the local church, in the homes, in the family, in the kindred, in the office, to the needy e.t.c.
Jesus Christ did not condemn tithing because He was talking to the jews and their traditions, He was also a jew however he was pointing out things in their tradition which will make them to see the *incompleteness in trying to observe the law without the spirit of the law* which is *first believing in Him as Lord and Savior*
Anyone who *bears the LIFE OF CHRIST JESUS PERSONALLY* is prompted by His Spirit to engage in what we provide financial profit, who to share his finances with, what percentage to give and when to give without being told by any pastor/priest or given an ultimatum "if you do not pay tithe, sow seed, give offering....you will die or go to hell or devourers will eat up your financial source"
GREAT GRACE BRETHREN!!!

Great brother! What they dont understand is that tithing is no longer just about the law in the new testament but a principle and act of Thanksgiving.
If you dont tithe we do not condemn you but please do not discourage those who wants to tithe and if the holy spirit reveal to you the need to tithe please do.
Whatever you do, do it to the Lord Jesus.

solite3:

Great brother! What they dont understand is that tithing is no longer just about the law in the new testament but a principle and act of Thanksgiving.
If you dont tithe we do not condemn you but please do not discourage those who wants to tithe and if the holy spirit reveal to you the need to tithe please do.
Whatever you do, do it to the Lord Jesus.

Tithing was in existence before the law. Jesus endorsed it.

Lol! No be small woe to the mammon worshipper!

Lol!

I was already exposing the covetousness of mammon worshippers as codetemplar back then hence the anger.

Codemammon!