₦airaland Forum

macof:
So English is the native tongue of an igbo man who speaks English better than igbo?

Or he just failed to learn his native language igbo as good as English due to social factors?

And to go more directly into your post :
reports about Ugbodu give the impression that the Olukumi dialect is still well preserved with people even addressing strangers with the dialect
Why should we take your word for it? What research have you conducted on the matter?

bigfrancis21:
My Nigerian brothers lack reading comprehension. The very basic ability to read in-between the lines to understand what a paragraph is about makes many of us fail tests like TOEFL and GRE despite 'knowing how to speak English', or rather, Nigerian English. We argue with emotions, rather than logically.

I am very sure I covered this lady in question in my previous post where I mentioned a section of Ugbodu where the people are proudly Olukumi and bear Olukumi names. Or did I miss something? I forgot to add that they all tend to have Igbo surnames anyway, even those with Olukumi first names. I am sure this lady you met has an Igbo surname?

I have met 5 Delta Igbos from Olukumi before and they all spoke Igbo and had Igbo names. I had no sense they were Olukumi either because they could not speak it or did not speak it. I later found out they are from Ugbodu when I checked their Facebook profiles. Now this is true for majority of them. There are Ugbodu people who are more like the lady you met. I never doubted your experience and I validated it as well. However, your experience or meeting one person does not speak for the entire Ugbodu people who are thousands in number.

@bold....yea if that's what you prefer to believe.

History
There has always been igbos in ugbodu before the arrival of the warriors from Akure,sent by the then Oba of Benin wen he was in pursuit of the fleeing igbos from the Benin kingdom. Those warriors getting to ugbodu,settled....and called the igbos there "olukumi" meaning my friends because the people were peaceful and friendly and also ruled over them for some period of time before the the Edos took over and then the igbos took back kingship.The original tittle as used by the government for the king of of ugbodu is "OBI" ,you can confirm from just recently court case on the obiship stool. So ugbodu was an igbo town by inception hence the use of igbo language along side the yoruboid language(olukumi). You cant separate ugbodu from her igboness.

what I am saying is dat ndi igbo is part of the foundation of Ugbodu Kingdom and was never 100% yoruba origin and Anioma in general so when we are speaking of fore father's and birth right,that should be in mind too coz actually,the warriors were the ones who "came in" and settled ,meeting pre existing igbos . So one can decide to identify as onye igbo from Ugbodu in Anioma delta state and also those who feel they are Yorubas or olukumi can also identify as one.

The formulation and conscious deduction of this from history is more political,As those who know,know. Even the Obi stool but won't talk much on that for reasons. If you go to Ugbodu kingdom today and other Odinani (odiani) clans(Ukwunzu,Ugbodu,Ubulubu,ogodor,ugboba,idumuogo),you will observe and feel the igboness very much present.
9 . They have also participated in every activity in the Anioma Zone,for example,the Ekumeku war,which affected the whole of Anioma.


PRESENT DAY ODIANI CLAN
______________________________________________
THE ODINANIS OF TODAY ARE FULL BLOODED NDI ANIOMAS AND BY EXTENSION MAKING THEM NDI IGBOS OF THE WEST. THE OBI OF UGBODU IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF OBIS IN ANIOCHA. THEY ARE ABOUT THE OLDEST TOWN IN ANIOCHA NORTH LGA
ALTHOUGH SOME MAY CLAIM NOT TO BE WESTERN IGBOS,BUT THAT IS JUST AN EFFECT OF IDENTITY CRISIS WHICH THIS PAGE IS SET TO CORRECT.
THE UNIQUENESS OF THE UGBODU PEOPLE IS THAT THEY ARE BILINGUAL,SPEAKING BOTH THE ENUANI DIALECT AND OLUKUMI DIALECT WHICH THEY ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE. THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES ANIOMA RICH IN CULTURE AND HERITAGE.Aniocha North

bigfrancis21:
Logically speaking, if a Yoruba child learns English first as a child and Yoruba later as an adult, English is/was that child's native language and Yoruba a second language. Now if that child picks up Pidgin language as a teenager (as most Nigerians do) before Yoruba, Pidgin is her second language and Yoruba third language. Same applies to an Igbo or Bini child. Logic does not take into account emotions. It is what it is.

darfay:
the guy you quoted seems to be living in wonderland, i would have believed him if i hadn't met one of the people he was talking about. the language isn't as dead as he would make us believe

darfay:
the guy you quoted seems to be living in wonderland, i would have believed him if i hadn't met one of the people he was talking about. the language isn't as dead as he would make us believe

macof:
sorry this is wrong.
At least based on the Nigerian system

First language remains the ethnic language not any foreign language regardless of the level of influence from said foreign language

RedboneSmith:
Actually, he is right. In my secondary school in Enugu, we had Igbo for L1 people and Igbo for L2 speakers.

L1 speakers are those for whom Igbo is a first language and L2 speakers are people for whom Igbo is a second language.

Those in the L2 Igbo class were still predominantly Igbo people, but who were raised outside the southeast and learnt another language (often English) before learning Igbo. Linguistically speaking, Igbo is their second language, and that was how the education system recognised them , even though they are ethnic Igbo.

That is technically the way it is, regardless of whether you are in Nigeria or America.

You can't logically say Igbo or Yoruba or Efik is the first language of a man who can't speak the language, just because he happens to belong to those groups by ethnic pedigree.

murphyibiam15:
You are 100% correct....Ebonyi has by far the least dialect in Igbo states ....am from Ebonyi...u can see two LGAs in Ebonyi speaking same dialect eg is Ohaozara and Onicha LGA
Nxt is Afikpo-Edda-Amasiri-Uwanna-Apkoha-Enohia who speak an hear same "jokwa' dialects

Down to Ezza-izzi-ikwo who hear and speak same dialect


unlike in Enugu where same LGA like 'Udi' speak diferent dialect e.g Ngwo,UDI town, abor, egede, okpatu,eke all have different dialects

As for Anambra they have lost their dialects to central Igbo probably bc they have more trade involvement which involves using central igbo

oglalasioux:
Very educative post. Thanks, OP.

I'm particularly interested in the diversity of dialects in all languages. In Ebonyi State, for instance, there are more Igbo dialects than in all the Igbo speaking states.

I have come to the conclusion (speculative) that dialects suggest that other tribes joined the original tribes back in time and developed the dialects based on their original mother tongues.

The Ngbo people of Ebonyi State, in my opinion, are originally Idomas. Their dialect of the Igbo language is a pure intonation of the Idoma language. This is also true of the Nsukka people of Enugu state who speak Igbo with Igala intonation.

Most people don't know that the English language and German are 90% identical. Languages and dialects are pointers that the world is shaped by evolution.

Igboid:
You are wrong. Ngbo people has no history of migrating from Idoma or being Idomas.

As for Nsukka area, their lands were invaded by Igalas, who affected their dialects a bit, but the Igalas amongst them had been assimilated into the dominant Igbo culture of the area.

And Ebonyi doesn't have more dialects than other Igbo states. Ebonyi rather seem to have lesser dialects, as groups there seem to be larger in size and landmass.

thrasy:
Afonjas, Ugbodu is an Igbo aborigine community with Influence from Igala and Yoruba migrants. Same as Ebu which came under attack by Igala warriors and settlers.

AjaanaOka:
The heavy settlement of Igbo migrant farmers (19th and 20th centuries) in Igalamela/Odolu is the subject of a number of studies. These migrations, to a large extent, account for the Igbo place-names. They generally began as camps for the migrant farmers.

The words 'Camp' and 'Mission' which occur in the names of some of these Igbo-named settlements suggest a recent (not pre-colonial) origin for the two or three communities so named.

bigfrancis21:
Thanks for this honest post of yours.

The amount of misinformation on nairaland can be quite alarming.

Ok, according to Igbo traditional history. One of the sons of Eri, Onoja, moved northwards to found Igala people. This is still reflective in an Igbo saying that if all the Igbos are finished off today, some Igbo still remain in Igala, most especially in reference to Igalas in the south with Igbo ancestry/influence. Now from my better understanding Onoja may not have been the founder of all Igalas but instead some part of the Igalas, especially southern Igala. Some towns in Igala south point their origins to Igboland.

The Igbo origin of some Igala towns is often left out in Igala historical accounts, partially due to attempts since the civil war by many tribes to disassociate from ethnic relationship with the Igbo. However, it does not telll the true story. Southern Igalas and some Northern Igbo towns share a lot of back-and-forth migrational relationships. That's the truth.

What do you know about Akpanya town?

bigfrancis21:
Thanks for this honest post of yours.

The amount of misinformation on nairaland can be quite alarming.

Ok, according to Igbo traditional history. One of the sons of Eri, Onoja, moved northwards to found Igala people. This is still reflective in an Igbo saying that if all the Igbos are finished off today, some Igbo still remain in Igala, most especially in reference to Igalas in the south with Igbo ancestry/influence. Now from my better understanding Onoja may not have been the founder of all Igalas but instead some part of the Igalas, especially southern Igala. Some towns in Igala south point their origins to Igboland.

The Igbo origin of some Igala towns is often left out in Igala historical accounts, partially due to attempts since the civil war by many tribes to disassociate from ethnic relationship with the Igbo. However, it does not telll the true story. Southern Igalas and some Northern Igbo towns share a lot of back-and-forth migrational relationships. That's the truth.

What do you know about Akpanya town?

AjaanaOka:
The heavy settlement of Igbo migrant farmers (19th and 20th centuries) in Igalamela/Odolu is the subject of a number of studies. These migrations, to a large extent, account for the Igbo place-names. They generally began as camps for the migrant farmers.

The words 'Camp' and 'Mission' which occur in the names of some of these Igbo-named settlements suggest a recent (not pre-colonial) origin for the two or three communities so named.

Igboid:
By Igala history, the Igalamela people are Igbos by origin. They are not descendants of Abutu Ejeh. But today, they are all known as Igala people.

This has always been my suspicion.

I suspected that Igala people might have occupied a more Northern territory in the past, but were pushed southwards, where they met indigenous Igbo communities, whom they overpowered and assimilated, leaving traces of Igbo influence in the process.


Whenever you read the origin stories of communities in Igbo Etiti LGA of Enugu state like Aku, Ekwegbe etc, they all seem to believe they migrated to their present location from Igala, and that they were Igalas, while parallel Nshi origins there are muted.

But what I thought when I critically analyzed their stories was that these people were probably displaced from their original locations that could be in present Igalamela, Olamboro, Ibaji areas by the Igalas in the ancient time, while some of them stayed behind and assimilated as Igalas in those places( Igalamela, Olamboro, Ibaji).

You can read about the Igala stories of Igbo Etiti people here:
http://igboetiti..co.ke/2010/10/history-and-tradition-of-people-of-igbo.html?m=1
The problem is that Igbo communities consider it exotic to hype on perceived links with cultures outside Igboland, while non Igbo speaking communities with Igbo ancestries outside Igboland, consider it a political necessity to conceal whatever links they have with communities in Igboland.

oglalasioux:
Very educative post. Thanks, OP.

I'm particularly interested in the diversity of dialects in all languages. In Ebonyi State, for instance, there are more Igbo dialects than in all the Igbo speaking states.

I have come to the conclusion (speculative) that dialects suggest that other tribes joined the original tribes back in time and developed the dialects based on their original mother tongues.

The Ngbo people of Ebonyi State, in my opinion, are originally Idomas. Their dialect of the Igbo language is a pure intonation of the Idoma language. This is also true of the Nsukka people of Enugu state who speak Igbo with Igala intonation.

Most people don't know that the English language and German are 90% identical. Languages and dialects are pointers that the world is shaped by evolution.