₦airaland Forum

Acidosis, your script can be flipped right back at you.

Women definitely don't like to be owned, but rather men like to possess and own to stake their territory.

Don't think the engagement rings is for the woman, but rather for the man to stake his ownership. Engagement ring that if the engagement breaks, it should be returned back to the man?
Is it not a man like you creating threads about and complaining his wife is not changing her name to his own?

Even with regards to the brideprice, the few cultures that take a huge amount, are collected by the men in their families.

And like you rightly said, how much is the bride price sef?
Imagine, and that will want to make another person thinks he now owns a human life/wife

yeyeosoronga:
Acidosis, your script can be flipped right back at you.

Women definitely don't like to be owned, but rather men like to possess and own to stake their territory.

Don't think the engagement rings is for the woman, but rather for the man to stake his ownership. Engagement ring that if the engagement breaks, it should be returned back to the man?
Is it not a man like you creating threads about and complaining his wife is not changing her name to his own?

Even with regards to the brideprice, the few cultures that take a huge amount, are collected by the men in their families.

And like you rightly said, how much is the bride price sef?
Imagine, and that will want to make another person thinks he now owns a human life/wife

^^ Let me know when you're ready to embrace the truth.

Acidosis:
^^ Let me know when you're ready to embrace the truth.

Men love to possess.

Face the reality, and stop with the BS

yeyeosoronga:
Men love to possess.

Face the reality, and stop with the BS

True. And women love to be possessed and maintained.

Fountainofyouth:
And then frustration came out at the end, how a thread on wives treatment by in-laws brought about feminism is beyond me, I am yet to see a thread created by a guy where feminism or feminists wouldn't be mentioned, y'all will be fine las las.

What treatment? You mean the treatment from the unbalanced script?

To start with, no family in this dispensation will give an irresponsible son-in-law any preferential treatment. Only a very good provider and responsible man will get the kind of treatment described in that script. Pride wouldn't even allow men visit their in-laws without tangible gifts. That's a man's nature.

Women, on the other hand, are by nature great care provider. She would cook, clean and ensure everyone is satisfied because that's what makes her happy. Tell her to give up her salary to make everyone happy and she just might end up frustrated because that's not her nature.

Unless a woman is marrying into a very complicated and irresponsible family (which is no fault of anyone but the woman's), it is irresponsible to withdraw from in-laws.

I need a balanced script to understand the issues tbh.

yeyeosoronga:
Acidosis, your script can be flipped right back at you.

Women definitely don't like to be owned, but rather men like to possess and own to stake their territory.

Don't think the engagement rings is for the woman, but rather for the man to stake his ownership. Engagement ring that if the engagement breaks, it should be returned back to the man?
Is it not a man like you creating threads about and complaining his wife is not changing her name to his own?

Even with regards to the brideprice, the few cultures that take a huge amount, are collected by the men in their families.

And like you rightly said, how much is the bride price sef?
Imagine, and that will want to make another person thinks he now owns a human life/wife

But is it only just that? Lol.. That's just simplifying something which is a lot more complex.

By now when people talk of bride-price, surely you must realize that it's not just the N24 or N5,000 being charged in some places. It's referring to every obligation (in form of gifts, cash, servitude) that has to be fulfilled in order to make a woman a wife.

Whether these things are collected by the men or the culture was instituted by men, is a child's argument - a way to avoid responsibility for changing it.
Women are the ones being disadvantaged by the process at the end of the day, not men. Women are the ones complaining of the treatment they receive in marriage, not men... therefore, ain't it up to women to spearhead the abolition of a practice that seeks to make them appear like commodities?
It is he who wears a shoe that knows where it pinches, and it's up to that person to do something about the shoe. It would be foolery to blame the shoe's problem on the manufacturer who made it the best way he knew how to.

When it comes down to the point of traditional marriage obligations, even you cannot deny exactly what it looks like - chattel (woman) transfer from father to husband.
BBC Africa has done a whole docu-series examining this cultural phenomenon and the expectations from to-be husbands, and how it translates into the concept of women ownership/placement in African marriages.

Every other thing which sub-saharan African women supposedly go through in marriage ultimately gets judged by the patriachal indices of how she got married, even if no one will admit it.
It's why a cheating wife will be thrown out, but a cheating husband will be forgiven. It's why like in the OP, the man is a king with his in-laws but the woman is just another person when at hers. It's why illegitimate children by the man can easily be integrated into the family but illegitimate children by the wife remain bastards that should not have a place in her legal husband's family.

There are so many derivatives, and it all hunkers down to the culture of 'marriage by purchase'. The bride-price itself is just a tiny fraction of this concept.

Carlmax:
I agree with the last paragraph, for that you get a like... I'd love to watch this as a televised debate. Sound argument from you and OP.

Thank you...

Also, I noticed Acidosis brought up the topic of engagement rings.. I didn't go there because in my mind, I see it more as an act of chivalry than a cultural expectation.
Even if historically it started as a cultural expectation in other countries, as it is today, it's more an act of chivalry.

You can very well get married to a woman without giving her any engagement ring, although I doubt most women would be happy about that - which is where Acidosis' point becomes valid regarding how Nigerian women actually still like the idea of being possessed.

I mean, one can't argue against it when you consider the fact that engagement rings were actually meant to be exchanged - a man gets for his woman and the woman returns the favour by getting one for her man, both are meant to wear it.
So I wonder at what point in history it became only a man's job to give engagement rings - typical case of women picking out what they like about a culture and doing away with what they don't like about the same culture... Lol

If you even try to tell these women to start returning the favour of providing men with an engagement ring as it was meant to be, they will let all hell loose.. Why? Probably because deep down they like the idea of being possessed.

What can I say...

Plead:
I see some guys/men up there talking about bride price and women being purchased. I have only four things to tell them ;
1. Bride price culture was started by men not women
2. It’s men who still collect /request for the bride price not women
3. Whenever the topic of abolishing bride price and marriage list comes up it’s men who still defend it and insult those who want them abolished
4. The culture is still around because of men.


So,if you wanna be ranting about purchased goods you should be throwing those words at your fellow men who are the enablers of the bride price culture.

As for me,no man is paying bride price shit on my daughter and same goes for marriage list. It should start from you.



Cc crackhaus crakkhaus abi crackkhaus mizwisdom acidosis and the others

Bride pride is the cheapest actually.
Most men will love to stick with bride price only.

In Nigeria, once u do the customary stuffs, u are married.

The question now is will an average naija babe agree to that?
Wedding and traditional marriage costs arms and legs.

Babes like to show the world the caught big fish so the best way to show that is through traditional marriage and wedding.

Why do u do traditional marriage and wedding?
Do u actually need it?

How did we end with them?

So why won't men see you as commodity after milking them.

Dowry and traditional marriage rite in my place is with few thousands. Believe u me, its that cheap.

All men are ok with that. But are the ladies ok with just that?

We eat our cake and expect to have it.
Cut these people some slacks please.

Let us try and tell.ourselves the truth.

These days, some of us end up in Dubai for wedding.
Tomorrow, divorce and they will be forming victims.
U lost most of the respect a man will have for you by milking him just to organise wedding after traditionally getting married.

So without knowing it, u are treated as possession.

Priests and pastors won't tell us this.

The day we will start thinking about a man's pocket when organising trivialities is the day the respect we seek from men will happen.

NOTE:
It took me long to come to this conclusion and analysis.

Marriage rites in Nigeria differs from tribe to tribe, talkmore of the whole sub saharan Africa.
I will speak only for Nigeria.
Marriage rites in nigeria is one of the easiest IMO. Gone are the days people ask you to be flogged to marry.
The major part of any marriage rite is the financing, with regards to the gifts and bride price expected of the groom.
Financing traditional marriages depends on what culture in Nigeria, as in some cultures it is even the bride's family that does majority of the financing in terms of food and entertainment.
But then, any marriage whether traditional or religious will still involve you entertaining your guests. The only drama less ceremony is the civil ceremony or court wedding where you need just a few witnesses.
Unfortunately, many don't seem to want to explore that route, which is the easiest and even the best.
There is no tradition that women give engagement rings, and it's only recently women started proposing to men
Engagement rings have always been a sign of ownership, telling other men to keep off because the woman has been taken and is now off the market. No culture has ever branded men, including the oyibo culture where wearing of rings stem from, and it is women that have always been branded.
So Crackhhuas, I'm not sure where your theory of exchanging engagement rings comes from. Only one person can 'engage' the other, and it's usually men that do this, until only recently by women.
Marriage rings are exchanged though, and not the engagement ring.

Why do some men think that it's only money he as a man can offer in a relationship, little wonder most rich men's wives cheat.
I can't be with a man who has this mentality, most with this kinda of mentality see women as nothing but objects n thus disrespects her n doesn't even pay attention to her.
Now back to the topic, me personally I think most women who end up with this sorta in-laws most times are the ones who are desperate to get married thus anything goes n women who see marriage as a poverty alleviation program (PAP).

Acidosis:
What treatment? You mean the treatment from the unbalanced script?

To start with, no family in this dispensation will give an irresponsible son-in-law any preferential treatment. Only a very good provider and responsible man will get the kind of treatment described in that script. Pride wouldn't even allow men visit their in-laws without tangible gifts. That's a man's nature.

Women, on the other hand, are by nature great care provider. She would cook, clean and ensure everyone is satisfied because that's what makes her happy. Tell her to give up her salary to make everyone happy and she just might end up frustrated because that's not her nature.

Unless a woman is marrying into a very complicated and irresponsible family (which is no fault of anyone but the woman's), it is irresponsible to withdraw from in-laws.

I need a balanced script to understand the issues tbh.

I'm a woman.
Cooking, cleaning, taking care of everybody doesn't make me happy. Not at all.
I hate it with a passion. I'm also certain many women have the same sentiments. Are we unnatural perhaps?
I also earn and spend my own money. Nothing makes me happier to go out and come back home with the satisfaction that I have made my wages for the day. I'm also very generous, and I do spend my wages on my family

yeyeosoronga:
Marriage rites in Nigeria differs from tribe to tribe, talkmore of the whole sub saharan Africa.
I will speak only for Nigeria.
Marriage rites in nigeria is one of the easiest IMO. Gone are the days people ask you to be flogged to marry.
The major part of any marriage rite is the financing, with regards to the gifts and bride price expected of the groom.
Financing traditional marriages depends on what culture in Nigeria, as in some cultures it is even the bride's family that does majority of the financing in terms of food and entertainment.
But then, any marriage whether traditional or religious will still involve you entertaining your guests. The only drama less ceremony is the civil ceremony or court wedding where you need just a few witnesses.
Unfortunately, many don't seem to want to explore that route, which is the easiest and even the best.
There is no tradition that women give engagement rings, and it's only recently women started proposing to men
Engagement rings have always been a sign of ownership, telling other men to keep off because the woman has been taken and is now off the market. No culture has ever branded men, including the oyibo culture where wearing of rings stem from, and it is women that have always been branded.
So Crackhhuas, I'm not sure where your theory of exchanging engagement rings comes from. Only one person can 'engage' the other, and it's usually men that do this, until only recently by women.
Marriage rings are exchanged though, and not the engagement ring.

You don't have to take my word for it, I was like you too who didn't know about it until I was told and had to go research on it (for the fun of it anyway).

Engagement rings are worn by both man and woman, even till today it still happens in some places.
I know this one will be hard for a lot of you to swallow, but take your time to investigate it instead of arguing against it on a whim. I didn't say it to score points.

The argument that is even made by people who know about the culture is that it was still the men who bought both rings (although no proof of that), the argument has never been that men never wore engagement rings.

At least, you agreed it is a sign of ownership so I wonder why you were arguing against Acid then.
If you see it as ownership of a woman, why don't you argue for it's abolition if you don't like being owned or just encourage women to inversely give their men engagement rings also so that the ownership will go both ways?

And yes, financing is all I was referring to when it comes to marriage rites, not flogging. That was never even a thing among southern Nigerian cultures.

As for me using the sub-saharan Africa umbrella, I did that for a purpose. However, streamlining it to just Nigeria, there is no place in the entire Nigeria where the traditional marriage rites involve the woman presenting gifts/satisfying obligations of any kind to the family of her husband-to-be.

If you know of such a place, I'd like to learn it today.

Acidosis:
How do you feel when you see those Instagram videos where a man kneels, pop the question "will you marry me?", of course, with a diamond ring?

You feel great right? And you say you don't like the idea of being "bought" and "spoiled"? You're not OKAY. You don't want bride price but you like your man to take you out? With whose money and time?


The one who collects a diamond ring is not different from one who receives a bride price. The most important thing is money is being spent on her, you all have a price tag. So quit being stubborn, and embrace your culture. Both bride price and engagement ring (proposal) do not make any rational sense to a typical man but he will do it anyway, cos he loves to pay the price. Dum.p your culture all you want, it's same trend all over the world albeit in different dimensions, cos you all got the same hormonal configuration.

The more "rights" you pursue at the expense of what your hormones dictate, the more miserable y'all will become. That's why feminists are some of the most miserable people on earth.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

yeyeosoronga:
I'm a woman.
Cooking, cleaning, taking care of everybody doesn't make me happy. Not at all.
I hate it with a passion. I'm also certain many women have the same sentiments. Are we unnatural perhaps?
I also earn and spend my own money. Nothing makes me happier to go out and come back home with the satisfaction that I have made my wages for the day. I'm also very generous, and I do spend my wages on my family

That's the effect of contraceptives, hormonal imbalance or menopause ^ ^ You didn't have the same notion/sentiments in your early 20s.

And btw, when I use the word "men" or "women", I do not necessarily mean all classes of men and women all over the world. Exceptions are normal.

As much as men love to possess, we still have a few who prefer to play woman's role. So you belong to the exempted few, my dear yeye.

MissGodOwn:
Why do some men think that it's only money he as a man can offer in a relationship, little wonder most rich men's wives cheat.
I can't be with a man who has this mentality, most with this kinda of mentality sees women as nothing but objects n thus disrespects her n doesn't even pay attention to her.
Now back to the topic, me personally I think most women who end up with this sorta in-laws most times are the ones who are desperate to get married thus anything goes n women who sees marriage as a poverty alleviation program (PAP).

Don't kid yourself.

You will NEVER get married to a man who you feel won't be able to pamper you and take care of you financially, even of he loves you with the love of the Lord.

Nah love and affection you come chop for this life?

crackkhaus:
Focus on the big picture.

That guy's comment was very apt.
Buying fuel is just an example to drive a point.

Understand the larger point behind the comment.

Thank you

crackkhaus:
Don't kid yourself.

You will NEVER get married to a man who you feel won't be able to pamper you and take care of you financially, even of he loves you with the love of the Lord.

Nah love and affection you come chop for this life?

Like I said; this ur mentality doesn't just make sense at all. It's people like u who see their wives as objects. Marriage isn't all about money.

MissGodOwn:
Like I said; this ur mentality doesn't just make sense at all. It's people like u who see their wives as objects. Marriage isn't all about money.

Na you sabi.

My own is if you can't marry a man that cannot pamper or take care of you financially, or a man you're higher than on economic status, then you're just singing glorious hymns here.

You lots want it all...the money, the love, the affection, the assistance, the care, the emotional support, every damn thing.

It's a pipe dream because you can't have it all, at least not all the time.

Acidosis:
That's the effect of contraceptives, hormonal imbalance or menopause ^ ^ You didn't have the same notion/sentiments in your early 20s.

And btw, when I use the word "men" or "women", I do not necessarily mean all classes of men and women all over the world. Exceptions are normal.

As much as men love to possess, we still have a few who prefer to play woman's role. So you belong to the exempted few, my dear yeye.

Hahahaha

Very funny.

I've never used any hormonal contraceptive in my life, I had hormones in my 20s like I still do now and I'm still very much pre menopausal.

In my early 20s, I didn't enjoy doing any of these either, and as I have grown older I unapologetically continue to give less and less f^cks.

crackkhaus:
Na you sabi.

My own is if you can't marry a man that cannot pamper or take care of you financially, or a man you're higher than on economic status, then you're just singing glorious hymns here.

You lots want it all...the money, the love, the affection, the assistance, the care, the emotional support, every damn thing.

It's a pipe dream because you can't have it all, at least not all the time.

How about me n my man hustle together as a team n HIT IT BIG TOGETHER, is it a crime?
I rather a man treats me with respect than as an ordinary object just because he feels he has money.

MissGodOwn:
How about me n my man hustle together as a team n HIT IT BIG TOGETHER, is it a crime?
I rather a man treats me with respect than as an ordinary object just because he feels he has money.

But you prefer the one that has money but still treats you with respect, over the one that has no money and treats you with respect... right?

crackkhaus:
But you prefer the one that has money but still treats you with respect, over the one that has no money and treats you with respect... right?

Maybe u should read n understand what I wrote very well before u comment.

yeyeosoronga:
Hahahaha

Very funny.

I've never used any hormonal contraceptive in my life, I had hormones in my 20s like I still do now and I'm still very much pre menopausal.

In my early 20s, I didn't enjoy doing any of these either, and as I have grown older I unapologetically continue to give less and less f^cks.

Funny woman

Acidosis, it would do you a world of good if you actually listen to what people say about themselves, and not just project what you think they should want/feel.
Perhaps if some men listened more, they would understand women better.
I told you earlier what I don't like, but you dismissed it and labelled it as hormonal 'sturvs', and even told me it must be a recent development as I couldn't have felt that way in my 20s .
Very presumptuous of you, if I must say. That actually is telling of your kind of person.
This is really just a friendly advice, and would help you outside Nigeria.

yeyeosoronga:
Acidosis, it would do you a world of good if you actually listen to what people say about themselves, and not just project what you think they should want/feel.
Perhaps if some men listened more, they would understand women better.
I told you earlier what I don't like, but you dismissed it and labelled it as hormonal 'sturvs', and even told me it must be a recent development as I couldn't have felt that way in my 20s .
Very presumptuous of you, if I must say. That actually is telling of your kind of person.
This is really just a friendly advice, and would help you outside Nigeria.

On another thread, we are trying to understand how a woman would reject good suitors after about 5-7 years of sitting with an irresponsible man of 40 years.

I dismissed your stand because it is unnatural. I have read and heard of cases where women prefer the unnatural things but I won't sit down or waste my time trying to rationalize the unnatural. A woman is naturally a care giver. It doesn't mean there are no exemptions (some women don't want or like babies, true but it is unnatural).

MissGodOwn:
Maybe u should read n understand what I wrote very well before u comment.

Maybe you should just answer the question instead of getting defensive.

Will you prefer being married to a man with money who respects & adores you, or a man with no money who still respects & adores you...since marriage is not all about money?

Does this topic have any thing to do with bride price?In places like India where the bride's family pay the asking price to the groom's family, this same scenario still plays out and even worse.

this has a lot to do with gender based roles. A man visiting his in-laws goes with wine/gifts while his wife returns the favor by housekeeping in his own family.

crackkhaus:
You don't have to take my word for it, I was like you too who didn't know about it until I was told and had to go research on it (for the fun of it anyway).

Engagement rings are worn by both man and woman, even till today it still happens in some places.
I know this one will be hard for a lot of you to swallow, but take your time to investigate it instead of arguing against it on a whim. I didn't say it to score points.

The argument that is even made by people who know about the culture is that it was still the men who bought both rings (although no proof of that), the argument has never been that men never wore engagement rings.

At least, you agreed it is a sign of ownership so I wonder why you were arguing against Acid then.
If you see it as ownership of a woman, why don't you argue for it's abolition if you don't like being owned or just encourage women to inversely give their men engagement rings also so that the ownership will go both ways?

And yes, financing is all I was referring to when it comes to marriage rites, not flogging. That was never even a thing among southern Nigerian cultures.

As for me using the sub-saharan Africa umbrella, I did that for a purpose. However, streamlining it to just Nigeria, there is no place in the entire Nigeria where the traditional marriage rites involve the woman presenting gifts/satisfying obligations of any kind to the family of her husband-to-be.

If you know of such a place, I'd like to learn it today.

@bold: The Yorubas.

Actually, when it comes to traditional marriage rites, an average Yoruba man cannot complain about the financials except he wants extra.

Yorubas return the bride price (aka we are not selling our daughter), have gifts for the groom's family and host the groom's family.

That is why bride's family dictates the pace of the marriage ceremony in Yoruba land.

yeyeosoronga:
Acidosis, it would do you a world of good if you actually listen to what people say about themselves, and not just project what you think they should want/feel.
Perhaps if some men listened more, they would understand women better.
I told you earlier what I don't like, but you dismissed it and labelled it as hormonal 'sturvs', and even told me it must be a recent development as I couldn't have felt that way in my 20s .
Very presumptuous of you, if I must say. That actually is telling of your kind of person.
This is really just a friendly advice, and would help you outside Nigeria.

Bless you for this comment

bukatyne:
@bold: The Yorubas.

Actually, when it comes to traditional marriage rites, an average Yoruba man cannot complain about the financials except he wants extra.

Yorubas return the bride price (aka we are not selling our daughter), have gifts for the groom's family and host the groom's family.

That is why bride's family dictates the pace of the marriage ceremony in Yoruba land.

Bride's family hosting the groom's family but at the same time giving gifts to the groom's family. Is it not the visitors that bring gifts?

Anyway, let's assume you're right and the groom is given gifts by the bride's family, what is the traditional name for that process and how is it different from Idana?

sassysure:
Bride pride is the cheapest actually.
Most men will love to stick with bride price only.

In Nigeria, once u do the customary stuffs, u are married.

The question now is will an average naija babe agree to that?
Wedding and traditional marriage costs arms and legs.

Babes like to show the world the caught big fish so the best way to show that is through traditional marriage and wedding.

Why do u do traditional marriage and wedding?
Do u actually need it?

How did we end with them?

So why won't men see you as commodity after milking them.

Dowry and traditional marriage rite in my place is with few thousands. Believe u me, its that cheap.

All men are ok with that. But are the ladies ok with just that?

We eat our cake and expect to have it.
Cut these people some slacks please.

Let us try and tell.ourselves the truth.

These days, some of us end up in Dubai for wedding.
Tomorrow, divorce and they will be forming victims.
U lost most of the respect a man will have for you by milking him just to organise wedding after traditionally getting married.

So without knowing it, u are treated as possession.

Priests and pastors won't tell us this.

The day we will start thinking about a man's pocket when organising trivialities is the day the respect we seek from men will happen.

NOTE:
It took me long to come to this conclusion and analysis.

The underlying tone/motive behind this comment is disturbing