Myer:


I know it's hard for you but if by now you still don't you see that all religions are all the same then you're the pathetic one here.

If they are all the same nko,

And so?
How does that affect u? Obsessed?

Myer:


What time is it where you are? It's dawn here love.
Just woke up. Since your profile claims you're in US, i think it's yu who should take your own advise. You're tired from losing too much.

Use Google clock

SharonLoveth:


Use Google clock

You need google clock to calculate a 6 hour time difference?
Now I know your USA is United Stupidity of Anambra.

But you know you really haven't made anyintelligent contribution to answer anyof yhe questions on this thread. I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what you're arguing about.

Blitzerz:

If they are all the same nko,

And so?
How does that affect u? Obsessed?

I'm glad you admit they're all the same cos you simply just proved you're just a church goer.

Myer:


Ok, since you claim i keep misunderstanding you, ok lets hear your story. What is the true christianity?

My story?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, it's the same story you, i and most people here have read times without number.

But the problem is how to apply what the author taught every reader in his book!

There are just three stages to WISDOM,

(1) THEORIES~ every info you get from any source be it the evolutionists, Islam, Hindu, Buddha, Judaists and of course the Bible could all be quantified as different THEORIES in life!

(2) PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS~ this is the stage where most false ideas crumbles, because it involves teaching followers how to practice as in make use of the info any group is parading as wisdom.

(3) BENEFITS~ at this stage only the truth will survive because no false ideology can survive the second stage!

I told you that Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only organization of TRUE Christians, so are you now ready to examine the Theory, Practical Application and Benefit of what the Bible REALLY teach?

Myer:


You need google clock to calculate a 6 hour time difference?
Now I know your USA is United Stupidity of Anambra.

But you know you really haven't made anyintelligent contribution to answer anyof yhe questions on this thread. I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what you're arguing about.

You asked a question I prescribed Google clock, you turn it to abusing your mother at home

KNOWLEDGE~ the accumulation of useful information!

WISDOM~ the practical application of accumulated information for lasting benefits!

While all groups (religious or none religious) have access to the earlier, it's only God's people that have access to the later!

Once again you're welcome to the home of divine wisdom:- JW Organization (the one and only TRUE Christian group)

God's purpose for the earth is for the planet to be filled with happy inhabitants!

But our first parents chose to alienate themselves from their life giver who is the one and only source of wisdom, that's why the earth is filled with troubles today.

God never had the intention of relieving us from the pangs of distress brought upon us by our first parents, his plan is to end it once and for all. So people expecting miracles during times of plagues are demanding for what does not rightfully belongs to them! Matthew 15:22-28 campare to Matthew 7:6

God performed miracles in the midst of Israelites to prove himself as the Almighty God so that they can go and teach other nations the TRUTH about God!

That's the purpose of miracles recorded in Bible times NOT that believers should not experience the consequences of the error of Adam and Eve, we are all humans so all of us must testify to it that Adam's error in turning against the creator is the worst blunder ever committed on this planet!

If we get sick due to misappropriation of the elements around us, God said he has given us herbs to use in servicing our body (not for permanent cure because we will still die due to sins inherited from Adam)

So all these Yahoo plus big boys teaching people that God is still performing miracles like he did in Israel are agents of God's enemy (Satan)! Matthew 7:21-23 compare to Revelations 16:14

Any further questions will be welcomed.

Thanks!

SharonLoveth:


You asked a question I prescribed Google clock, you turn it to abusing your mother at home

Clearly you have nothing meaningful to add to this topic.

Myer:


Clearly you have nothing meaningful to add to this topic.

As you are meaningless to be here

SharonLoveth:


As you are meaningless to be here

I dare you to prove me wrong and say something reasonable for once on this topic.
Honestly I'm waiting.

Myer:


I dare you to prove me wrong and say something reasonable for once on this topic.
Honestly I'm waiting.

Wait till your covik food get to u ok

Maximus69:
God's purpose for the earth is for the planet to be filled with happy inhabitants!

But our first parents chose to alienate themselves from their life giver who is the one and only source of wisdom, that's why the earth is filled with troubles today.

God never had the intention of relieving us from the pangs of distress brought upon us by our first parents, his plan is to end it once and for all. So people expecting miracles during times of plagues are demanding for what does not rightfully belongs to them! Matthew 15:22-28 campare to Matthew 7:6

God performed miracles in the midst of Israelites to prove himself as the Almighty God so that they can go and teach other nations the TRUTH about God!

That's the purpose of miracles recorded in Bible times NOT that believers should not experience the consequences of the error of Adam and Eve, we are all humans so all of us must testify to it that Adam's error in turning against the creator is the worst blunder ever committed on this planet!

If we get sick due to misappropriation of the elements around us, God said he has given us herbs to use in servicing our body (not for permanent cure because we will still die due to sins inherited from Adam)

So all these Yahoo plus big boys teaching people that God is still performing miracles like he did in Israel are agents of God's enemy (Satan)! Matthew 7:21-23 compare to Revelations 16:14

Any further questions will be welcomed.

Thanks!

Interesting, I forgot JW don't even believe in miracles anymore.
The purpose of this thread is not to further spread your confusions but to help you open your eyes.
If you're so keen on evangelism, why not go to the streets?

Myer:


Interesting, I forgot JW don't even believe in miracles anymore.
The purpose of this thread is not to further spread your confusions but to help you open your eyes.
If you're so keen on evangelism, why not go to the streets?

I'm not here for EVANGELISM!

Jesus sent us to come and meet you in your house for the message of the good news (evangelism), if you want to learn the TRUTH about God we will spend more time with you but if you're the argument type we quickly move to the next person!
That's why he was emphatic about the lost sheep of the house of Israel (people who truthfully have interest in God but are lost in all these false religions) Matthew 10:6, 15:24

This is Nairaland (social media) where people get the LATEST gist concerning things that's happening in out society.

Your post is about how Covid19 humbled Christians and Muslims, so i'm using the opportunity to OPEN YOUR EYES that TRUE Christians are humble people already, we can't be humbled again!

HE THAT IS DOWN NEED FEAR NO FALL!

The purpose of discussing with your fellow man is either to gain insight (get your eyes opened) or to enlighten others (prove to be an eye opener), certainly one of us need help here.

So let us meditate on what both of us have shared so far!

Myer:


I'm glad you admit they're all the same cos you simply just proved you're just a church goer.

And how does my being a church goer, affect u?

Get a life!

Maximus69:


I'm not here for EVANGELISM!

Jesus sent us to come and meet you in your house for the message of the good news (evangelism), if you want to learn the TRUTH about God we will spend more time with you but if you're the argument type we quickly move to the next person!
That's why he was emphatic about the lost sheep of the house of Israel (people who truthfully have interest in God but are lost in all these false religions) Matthew 10:6, 15:24

This is Nairaland (social media) where people get the LATEST gist concerning things that's happening in out society.

Your post is about how Covid19 humbled Christians and Muslims, so i'm using the opportunity to OPEN YOUR EYES that TRUE Christians are humble people already, we can't be humbled again!

HE THAT IS DOWN NEED FEAR NO FALL!

The purpose of discussing with your fellow man is either to gain insight (get your eyes opened) or to enlighten others (prove to be an eye opener), certainly one of us need help here.

So let us meditate on what both of us have shared so far!

Saying a Christian is humble is like saying he's already graduated school.
Christianity was established to teach you humility, love and righteousness among other things.
Truly a level of humility is what makes you repent but it's meant to keep teaching you more humility.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about cos most Christians grow in pride rather than humility.

Blitzerz:

And how does my being a church goer, affect u?

Get a life!

It doesn't affect me it only exposes you have no idea what you're even doing in the church you're going to. Guess you were born into it

Myer:


Saying a Christian is humble is like saying he's already graduated school.
Christianity was established to teach you humility, love and righteousness among other things.
Truly a level of humility is what makes you repent but it's meant to keep teaching you more humility.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about cos most Christians grow in pride rather than humility.

Your ambiguously generalising the group name "Christians" will not help your argument!

Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Goodness, Kindness, Faith, MILDNESS (HUMILITY) and Self Control! Galatians 5:22-23

Focus on the one and only TRUE Christian Organization (Jehovah's Witnesses) that i'm presenting to you before thinking of arguing further!

I was never a Christian by birth, in fact i was born, bread and brought up a Muslim, but i was so inquisitive to identify God's people (if there is God at all), it was when i met Jehovah's Witnesses that the story changed. Now i can stand before anyone, anywhere and anytime to say with full conviction that "God is real and he surely have a people for his name"! Act 15:14

No human can master all those nine qualities now that's why Jesus is using the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses globally to feed us spiritually. God will give all those who proved to be humble by the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses one thousand years to master all these qualities! Revelations 20:3

Now look at all the religions claiming Christians, and ask yourself deep down in your heart
"which of them is yielding such result as a group like Jehovah's Witnesses Organization?" Matthew 5:14-16; 7:16-18

Thanks!

beardlessdude:

Exodus 33 vs 20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. ("He" here is god discussing with Moses )

Genesis 32 vs 30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13 vs 22
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

I dont really blame god though for the discrepancies, I had always thought he had amnesia.

The way you guys read Bible amaze me.

Bible reading should not hang our reasoning for literature and word structure. Many end up appearing unintelligent by trying to change narrative of the scriptures.

For example now, I am wondering where is the contradiction here. You only need to read patiently and intelligently to understand. No extras. Even with a closed heart but having good knowledge of literacy and writings you will decipher this.

hupernikao:


The way you guys read Bible amaze me.

Bible reading should not hang our reasoning for literature and word structure. Many end up appearing unintelligent by trying to change narrative of the scriptures.

i dont understand? Did i change any narrative. I just copied and pasted what is there

beardlessdude:
i dont understand? Did i change any narrative. I just copied and pasted what is there

You either did want to change it or you don't understand it. But you are fast to conclude that there is contradiction. There is non there.

beardlessdude:

Exodus 33 vs 20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. ("He" here is god discussing with Moses )

Genesis 32 vs 30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13 vs 22
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

I dont really blame god though for the discrepancies, I had always thought he had amnesia.

Most of the seemingly contradict you see in the scriptures especially in the OT are language issues they are not contradiction.
The major issue is you have to understand use of language. There are many genre in the bible and you must treat it as such to understand it.

The bible is a literature book which it's writings were inspired by God, but written by men who used day to day language and literature of their time. So, you must be a good student of word usage couple with diligent study to understand some complexity of the language.

I will try and explain the verses later, if time allows.

WAIT:
Observe my last statement:

If time allows/permit.

I am sure you understand fully what I meant. But the reason you do is because its a statement of our current world and literature.
Notice that statement in itself will make no sense if you aren't used to our current world. For example someone reading that in next 1000 years will wonder if "time was once a human or animate thing that can hold or prevent humans". Why? Language issue.

This is the reason we must study historical writings with patience and much research to take us to their time and understand their thought and usage of words.

Myer:


It doesn't affect me it only exposes you have no idea what you're even doing in the church you're going to. Guess you were born into it

And u that have all the ideas, how r u better?

beardlessdude:
i dont understand? Did i change any narrative. I just copied and pasted what is there

Even now you may development a totally different outlook ordinarily copying and pasting what people you're seeing today said without someone close to them to explain what they actually meant to you!

Call Nigerians from different part of the country and ask them to interpret what the President said in a speech, that's when you will understand what we're saying here!

So how can you fully gain insight into the speech of another person?

Well you must first study his close friends, make sure you identify them by attitude and how fervently they hold onto the person's word, those are the right people to ask.

Because if they don't understand him, they can't be keeping up to his words without any benefits. You are not interested in the speaker yet but the story may change if you SEE the BENEFITS!

The sacred secret in God's word has been revealed to some people, if you don't come in contact with them you will continue to hate him or feel he doesn't even exist at all!

Go to any country in the world today and see how many people in the society truly love their ruler. But when you come in contact with those who understands his program and manifesto you'll be compelled to love him!

beardlessdude:

Exodus 33 vs 20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. ("He" here is god discussing with Moses )

Genesis 32 vs 30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13 vs 22
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

I dont really blame god though for the discrepancies, I had always thought he had amnesia.

Okay @beardlessdude

Concerning your statement above.
I will first want you to recheck by earlier post for flow of information.

MY FIRST RESPONSE:
The way you guys read Bible amaze me.

Bible reading should not hang our reasoning for literature and word structure. Many end up appearing unintelligent by trying to change narrative of the scriptures.

For example now, I am wondering where is the contradiction here. You only need to read patiently and intelligently to understand. No extras. Even with a closed heart but having good knowledge of literacy and writings you will decipher this.

MY SECOND RESPONSE:
Most of the seemingly contradict you see in the scriptures especially in the OT are language issues they are not contradiction.
The major issue is you have to understand use of language. There are many genre in the bible and you must treat it as such to understand it.

The bible is a literature book which it's writings were inspired by God, but written by men who used day to day language and literature of their time. So, you must be a good student of word usage couple with diligent study to understand some complexity of the language.

I will try and explain the verses later, if time allows.

WAIT:
Observe my last statement:

If time allows/permit.

I am sure you understand fully what I meant. But the reason you do is because its a statement of our current world and literature.
Notice that statement in itself will make no sense if you aren't used to our current world. For example someone reading that in next 1000 years will wonder if "time was once a human or animate thing that can hold or prevent humans". Why? Language issue.

This is the reason we must study historical writings with patience and much research to take us to their time and understand their thought and usage of words.

NOW, THE EXPLANATION

Firstly, the major challenge in most of those verses is because we either dont read or we dont read well. Some others read to seek "revelation" in what is already revealed as the word of God is revelation itself. Understanding it, is light. By simply reading properly and contextually many of the assumed errors will be cleared.

A RULE OF INTERPRETATION IS THAT A TEXT MUST DERIVE ITS OWN MEANING FROM SURROUNDING TEXT, HENCE THE REASON FOR READING WELL AND READING ALL.

You quoted :
Exodus 33 vs 20
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. ("He" here is god discussing with Moses )

Genesis 32 vs 30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13 vs 22
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

By Context:
Exodus 33 vs 20, Moses wrote that the Lord spoke to him. vs, 1, 17,18 etc

17 And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

Genesis 32 vs 30, Jacob met an angel of God:

vs 1 And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him.

Observe verse 2, Jacob called him God's host

2 And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim.

Observe vs 24

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

He wrestled with a man. That is to tell about the appearance. He had the appearance of a man.

Now verse
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince[b] hast thou power with God and with men[/b], and hast prevailed.

Used God, same as verse 30 you referenced.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for

I have seen God face to face

, and my life is preserved.

But was God seen? Lets check the last one

Judges 13 vs 22

21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Manoah case is very clear, he saw and angel. Observe the play of words, "we have seen God". Was Manoah confused? Of cause not, its the use of words and language literature.

The language literature in play here is called Metonymy, it is a figure of speech.

WHAT IS METONYMY
Metonymy is a figure of speech in which a thing or concept is not called by its own name, but by the name of something intimately associated with that thing or concept, that is the substitution of a noun for another closely associated noun. The substituted noun derives its meaning in the context its is used by the association produced in the readers mind.

Examples:

1. In English when we use "White House" in a statement, we understand that this is not a talking building, but an official communication with the authority of the President of the United States who lives in the White House. But the White house is used as an associated noun.

2. If i say, i saw Queen's college at the debate, i wont be referring to the school as a whole, i only used the school name as substitute for the participants from Queen's College. What ever the participants do can be ascribed to the school as been done by it.

3. PEN is mightier than SWORD. Of cause this is not literal pen. Pen here is a Metonymy for "writings", Sword here is also a Metonymy for war but can be used as it has close association with it.

There are many cases in the scriptures where you will find this especially when referring to God. Infact when you understand this well, you will observe that 95% of things in OT ascribed to God was a result of using Metonymy but this can only be obvious with proper study.

Let me give you typical scenario in the scriptures on this.

Who Killed Saul (www.truthortradition.com article)
A good illustration of how one subject is put for another is found in comparing the two seemingly contradictory biblical accounts of the death of King Saul. Remember that in the Old Testament, as we have noted, God was perceived as the ultimate cause of both positive and negative circumstances, and as sovereign in the sense that He controlled everything that happened.

In 1 Samuel 31:4 and 5, the Word of God states that Saul died by committing suicide, falling upon his sword. Yet, 1 Chronicles 10:14 says that “the Lord put him to death” for disobeying the Word of God and for inquiring of a familiar spirit.

How do we reconcile these apparently conflicting statements? We do so by recognizing that the latter statement is the figure of speech Metonymy of the Subject. The actual subject, Saul (as stated in 1 Samuel 31) is exchanged for another subject, God, with which it stands in a definite relation. The relation between Saul and God is that it was God who gave Saul His commandments, and Saul disobeyed them. Thus God can, in one sense, be said to be the “cause” of Saul’s death. By breaking God’s laws, Saul broke himself against them.

By his own choice, Saul separated himself from God and His blessings, and therefore faced the consequences of his actions without the benefit of God’s grace and mercy. Because of his own sin, Saul found himself in a hopeless predicament, and killed himself.

Many times also in the OT God has been used for Satan's actions, its proper study and reading that you can see it in explanation.

Back to your verses:
Genesis 32 vs 30: Jacob could use God in place of Angel as it is closely associated, he is an angel of God. Hence Jacob saw an Angel.
Judges 13 vs 22: Manoah also could have done the same using (metonymy) God in place of Angel. We all do in our daily conversation.

I have seen many here speaking about a single Pastor/Church leader by using the word Christians as substitute. Why? because is part of/associated with it.

In summary Metonymy can be used as follows.
- The place may be put for its inhabitants. “Woe to thee, Chorazin! Woe to thee, Bethsaida!” (Matt. 11:21)

- The effect may be put for the cause: “Jacob sware by the fear of his father Isaac” (Gen. 21:53)

- The leader may be put for his followers, or the teacher for his disciples, or the master for his servants. Atheism says "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary". Actually this was said by Stephen Hawking, one of their leaders but used as a whole of the system.
Or Osama Bin Ladin killed a lot of people". Actually 99.9% of the killing by Osama system was done by his followers.

- The symbol is put for that of which it is the badge. “he bears not the sword in vain “ (Romans 13:4), where “sword” is magisterial authority

- The voice may be put for the person speaking. Usually when Prophets speak in OT, there words are taking as God speaking.

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I hope this is clear, though the target is for it to enter the Nairaland archives for unknown readers with open mind.

hupernikao:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this is clear, though the target is for it to enter the Nairaland archives for unknown readers with open mind.

You are a good literature student but trying to explain away the obvious makes you look desperate.
God himself confirmed that Moses saw his face in Numbers 12. But Jesus said no one ever did except him. But I guess it is up to you do decide.

The bible without a doubt is full of contradictions. Just google it, so I don't bore you with the contradicting accounts of the synoptic gospels and even the book of Acts.

So I'll leave you with this major contradiction on which the whole claim of Christianity hangs;

Like I asked the other guy before he ran away, does the bible preach once saved forever saved or you can lose your salvation?

Myer:


You are a good literature student but trying to explain away the obvious makes you look desperate.
God himself confirmed that Moses saw his face in Numbers 12. But Jesus said no one ever did except him. But I guess it is up to you do decide.

The bible without a doubt is full of contradictions. Just google it, so I don't bore you with the contradicting accounts of the synoptic gospels and even the book of Acts.

So I'll leave you with this major contradiction on which the whole claim of Christianity hangs;

Like I asked the other guy before he ran away, does the bible preach once saved forever saved or you can lose your salvation?

Well, firstly. I will appreciate a honest discussion with you. Being honest doesnt mean you accept what is being said but that you know what is said is true. Accepting it is another thing. The moment you are just out to be arguing in unstable way it will be bad for proper discussion.

Secondly, Like i told you before, there are no contradictions in the scriptures, its ignorance and laziness that make a man scream such, hence you should engage in proper study. It is also laziness referring your audience or counterpart to goggle things you never presented. When you start an argument be ready to do the dirty work of presenting adequate evidence and information.

You see, there are some argument you dont make especially when its not your area, what you should do is to ask questions. Arguing on things you dont know will make you appear bad. There are room for knowing via asking questions, and there are room for argument via knowledge. The truth is when i see most atheist argument on scriptures here it only make me laugh as its obvious many are not only ignorant but display stark illiteracy. Atheist in developed world, will make logical argument after proper study, examining all avenue not picking and interpreting words in confusion.

You imagine the verse you are arguing on, its easier for you to do such online because you arent under view or broadcast. If you are place under such you may end up ridiculing yourself as interpretation are usually based on usage of words and most times having a proper study of the word used. But what you do is to interpret as most layman who cant sit and make proper research before speaking. Your ignorance will be explored and make you a hell of unlettered, unlearned and bible illiterate if you sit with an Hebrew/Greek expert and say what you just said about Numbers 12.

Learn this today, always and i mean always, check resources, make research before making conclusion so as not to be seen as unlearned fellow. You can be literate in Bible interpretation and not still believe in it. There are many who are not Christians but are involved in bible translation due to how they can handle language. They will present the scriptures as close as its written. But a bible illiterate will only be jumping on words without even knowing its meaning. You must see arguments beyond NL, you should be able to defend all your facts without jumping the guns.

Having said that, to the issue at hand.

I have cleared the issue of Manoah seeing God (Judges 13 vs 22), Jacob seeing God (Genesis 32 vs 30) as false and i believe the facts that you cant puncture that shows your humility to accept your error.

Now to Numbers 12. I have read over and over again and couldnt see where it stated that Moses saw God.

I am sure you must be referring verse 8

Numbers 12:8

With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

And the word in question here is the word similitude (and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold) that is what you referred to.

I believe you know that the major of the OT is written in Hebrew, so when there is word issue, best is to check the original words. There are over a million resources on the internet for you to confirm what i want to explain and educate yourself more.

The word similitude is taking from the Hebrew word. The word similitude was translated from the Hebrew word "tĕmuwnah", It was used 10 times in OT, It directly mean form, image, likeness, representation, semblance. When ever tĕmuwnah is used it usually point to a copy or image of the ORIGINAL but not the original. Let me give you other places it is used in the scriptures.

Exo 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Observe likeness (tĕmuwnah), that is image of the original, in this context, original is "thing that is in heaven above"

Job 4:16

It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,

Image (tĕmuwnah), not the actual. He couldnt discern the Original.

Psa 17:15

As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Likeness again, not original. Observe, he said behold thy face in righteousness. That is in his attribute, countenance, not his person.

In ancient writings when tĕmuwnah is used it carries the meaning of something fashioned to represent an original.

The Septuagint (LXX) if you know what that means, it is the Greek translation of the Hebrews scriptures. Note that this translation precedes even the birth of Jesus, and some of the Apostles used it. So we can rely on its closeness to the ancient hebrews.

In Septuagint translation, the word used in Numbers 12:8 for similitude is doxa (δόξα) literally meaning glory. Used in Greek NT 169 times. It means honor, renown, glory splendor, renown; glory, an especially divine quality, the unspoken manifestation of God, splendor.

Observe it is a likeness not the Original but an apparent glory of it.

Now back to Numbers 12:8

The events spoken of here is seen in Exo 33 which i have cleared earlier.

Exo 33:20-22

And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

So, what Moses beheld was God's glory (doxa), hence the likeness, image, similitude of him.

Moses and anyone never seen God at anytime, hence the reason Jesus said that. It will only be a journey of futility to try to contradict that considering the much evidence we have in the scriptures to support this.

Lastly. I want to believe, you are someone given to reading and not just want to speak or type. Reading is part of learning and argument. So, ensure you read and understand all i wrote before commenting. It will be laziness to want to debunk a writing without proper reading and understanding the writings itself. You will be interpreting like a fellow who after hearing "lend me your hand" in the Bible, start panting up and down screaming why do they cut hands in the Bible or God like cutting hands.

Your last point is not within this space, if you want to discuss that, open another thread or resurrect a former on that as your companions always do. Then we can discuss.

But let me ask, truthfully, have you actually read the Bible yourself before, i mean reading it properly by yourself.

hupernikao:


Well, firstly. I will appreciate a honest discussion with you. Being honest doesnt mean you accept what is being said but that you know what is said is true. Accepting it is another thing. The moment you are just out to be arguing in unstable way it will be bad for proper discussion.

Secondly, Like i told you before, there are no contradictions in the scriptures, its ignorance and laziness that make a man scream such, hence you should engage in proper study. It is also laziness referring your audience or counterpart to goggle things you never presented. When you start an argument be ready to do the dirty work of presenting adequate evidence and information.

You see, there are some argument you dont make especially when its not your area, what you should do is to ask questions. Arguing on things you dont know will make you appear bad. There are room for knowing via asking questions, and there are room for argument via knowledge. The truth is when i see most atheist argument on scriptures here it only make me laugh as its obvious many are not only ignorant but display stark illiteracy. Atheist in developed world, will make logical argument after proper study, examining all avenue not picking and interpreting words in confusion.

You imagine the verse you are arguing on, its easier for you to do such online because you arent under view or broadcast. If you are place under such you may end up ridiculing yourself as interpretation are usually based on usage of words and most times having a proper study of the word used. But what you do is to interpret as most layman who cant sit and make proper research before speaking. Your ignorance will be explored and make you a hell of unlettered, unlearned and bible illiterate if you sit with an Hebrew/Greek expert and say what you just said about Numbers 12.

Learn this today, always and i mean always, check resources, make research before making conclusion so as not to be seen as unlearned fellow. You can be literate in Bible interpretation and not still believe in it. There are many who are not Christians but are involved in bible translation due to how they can handle language. They will present the scriptures as close as its written. But a bible illiterate will only be jumping on words without even knowing its meaning. You must see arguments beyond NL, you should be able to defend all your facts without jumping the guns.

Having said that, to the issue at hand.

I have cleared the issue of Manoah seeing God (Judges 13 vs 22), Jacob seeing God (Genesis 32 vs 30) as false and i believe the facts that you cant puncture that shows your humility to accept your error.

Now to Numbers 12. I have read over and over again and couldnt see where it stated that Moses saw God.

I am sure you must be referring verse 8

Numbers 12:8


And the word in question here is the word similitude (and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold) that is what you referred to.

I believe you know that the major of the OT is written in Hebrew, so when there is word issue, best is to check the original words. There are over a million resources on the internet for you to confirm what i want to explain and educate yourself more.

The word similitude is taking from the Hebrew word. The word similitude was translated from the Hebrew word "tĕmuwnah", It was used 10 times in OT, It directly mean form, image, likeness, representation, semblance. When ever tĕmuwnah is used it usually point to a copy or image of the ORIGINAL but not the original. Let me give you other places it is used in the scriptures.

Exo 20:4


Observe likeness (tĕmuwnah), that is image of the original, in this context, original is "thing that is in heaven above"

Job 4:16


Image (tĕmuwnah), not the actual. He couldnt discern the Original.

Psa 17:15


Likeness again, not original. Observe, he said behold thy face in righteousness. That is in his attribute, countenance, not his person.

In ancient writings when tĕmuwnah is used it carries the meaning of something fashioned to represent an original.

The Septuagint (LXX) if you know what that means, it is the Greek translation of the Hebrews scriptures. Note that this translation precedes even the birth of Jesus, and some of the Apostles used it. So we can rely on its closeness to the ancient hebrews.

In Septuagint translation, the word used in Numbers 12:8 for similitude is doxa (δόξα) literally meaning glory. Used in Greek NT 169 times. It means honor, renown, glory splendor, renown; glory, an especially divine quality, the unspoken manifestation of God, splendor.

Observe it is a likeness not the Original but an apparent glory of it.

Now back to Numbers 12:8

The events spoken of here is seen in Exo 33 which i have cleared earlier.

Exo 33:20-22


So, what Moses beheld was God's glory (doxa), hence the likeness, image, similitude of him.

Moses and anyone never seen God at anytime, hence the reason Jesus said that. It will only be a journey of futility to try to contradict that considering the much evidence we have in the scriptures to support this.

Lastly. I want to believe, you are someone given to reading and not just want to speak or type. Reading is part of learning and argument. So, ensure you read and understand all i wrote before commenting. It will be laziness to want to debunk a writing without proper reading and understanding the writings itself. You will be interpreting like a fellow who after hearing "lend me your hand" in the Bible, start panting up and down screaming why do they cut hands in the Bible or God like cutting hands.

Your last point is not within this space, if you want to discuss that, open another thread or resurrect a former on that as your companions always do. Then we can discuss.

But let me ask, truthfully, have you actually read the Bible yourself before, i mean reading it properly by yourself.

All this long epistle and you didn't actually answer the question.
It's ok not to have all the answers, you can just admit that you don't know.
The bible clearly contradicts itself on the concept of salvation.

hupernikao:


The way you guys read Bible amaze me.

Bible reading should not hang our reasoning for literature and word structure. Many end up appearing unintelligent by trying to change narrative of the scriptures.

For example now, I am wondering where is the contradiction here. You only need to read patiently and intelligently to understand. No extras. Even with a closed heart but having good knowledge of literacy and writings you will decipher this.

So you want to tell us that you can't see the contradictions?

OtemAtum:

So you want to tell us that you can't see the contradictions?

You know we read with different glasses, maybe that's why we see differently.

Have you read all i posted?

hupernikao:


You know we read with different glasses, maybe that's why we see differently.

Have you read all i posted?

Oh, you mean I should read your doctrine? Are you one of the writers of the Bible? I read the Bible, you read it too, so why should I read your sermon before I could understand what is clearly written in the Bible?

The question is :
1. Can a man see your God? Yes or no

1a. If yes, then why did your Jesus say 'no man has seen God at any time?'

1b. If no, why did Moses say 'I have seen god face to face?

Myer:


All this long epistle and you didn't actually answer the question.
It's ok not to have all the answers, you can just admit that you don't know.
The bible clearly contradicts itself on the concept of salvation.

It is sad that you cant read when post are long. I know it is a strange thing these days to be serious with discussions. Sorry for that, but i cant help you. It is a culture you need to develop so as to be able to understand things and not appear lazy.

Firstly, i will advise you to try to be a patient person and read patiently and spend time to think on what you read. Also, help yourself to be able to be diligent in proper study.
Life is not in jumping guns to prove a point. You may end up embarrassing yourself someday if you dont have good grasp of what you hold tight. No one is in competition with you, get that. You can have such feeling on face less media, but in life, ensure you dont expose such laziness but be calm to study and learn before having an opinion on things.

Scriptures arent for lazy lads even by those who deliberately find fault in it. It is serious work, so maybe you may face what you are well cut out for, and leave this for those who can read.