Barristter07:


Jozzy4 already did justice to the above



First , you probably forget that what is inside the sea is actually the same Mayim

Genesis 1:21,22

" And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and Swarm IN THE WATERS ... Be fruitful and become many and FILL THE WATERS OF THE SEA "

What you called Sea is actually the same Mayim that existed before creative days ... Nowhere in the creative days were thus waters formed . but at Job 38:8 it says the Sea ( waters filling it ) once burst from from womb ( Womb birth , born , came into existence ) . this precedes Creative days.


Job 38:6 mention again " earth Cornerstone " . This was not part of the details of Creative days . Creative days never mention how God built the structure of the earth. But this expression at Job 38 refer to its construction

What are you saying?.....

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

Why is Jesus accorded the same Praise and Worship as the Father?.......

Why would all creature in both heaven and earth worship Jesus in the presence of the Father?

Is there any where in the bible where heavenly begins worship anybody apart from God?

freshboi88:


I quoted another version that shows Jesus been worshipped in heaven...in the presence of The Father

New Living Translation
And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They sang: “Blessing and honor and glory and power belong to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever.”

Like I told u the scripture is never wrong, if it appears to contradict then watch your interpretation. Rev 5 shows Jesus been worshipped in heaven.


Y worship him?....if he is created. How can a created being be worshipped on earth and in heaven

This is what have been waiting for , Jesus too is a created being so that word should not be translated worship.

He is a Son of God just like the angels.

Jozzy4:


This is what have been waiting for , Jesus too is a created being so that word should not be translated worship.

He is a Son of God just like the angels.

If he is just like the angels, why do d angels Worship him? I have pointed that out in Rev 5.

Y accord him the same glory and praise given to the Father.

You cannot defend a stupid idea and still appear intelligent. Pls y do d angels Worship Jesus and give him Glory and Praise

You already agree the word " worship " should not be used for created beings . Good move

freshboi88:


If he is just like the angels, why do d angels Worship him? I have pointed that out in Rev 5.

Y accord him the same glory and praise given to the Father.

You cannot defend a stupid idea and still appear intelligent. Pls y do d angels Worship Jesus and give him Glory and Praise

Are angels sons of God ? Is Jesus Son of God too ?

I dare you to reply

Jozzy4:


This is what have been waiting for , Jesus too is a created being so that word should not be translated worship.

He is a Son of God just like the angels.

New International Version
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

If the bolded should not be called worship what do u call it?.... Remember The Father is mentioned in the same sentence as well o incase u want to answer rubbish

freshboi88:


New International Version
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

If the bolded should not be called worship what do u call it?.... Remember The Father is mentioned in the same sentence as well o incase u want to answer rubbish

You already said worship is not for created beings. It should be understood as honor .

Fine

Angels are called sons of God the Father because He created them , Is Jesus a son of God too ?

Jozzy4:
You already agree the word " worship " should not be used for created beings . Good move


Are angels sons of God ? Is Jesus Son of God too ?

I dare you to reply

Of course I'll reply, Angels are Sons of God but Jesus is The Father's only begotten Son

freshboi88:


Of course I'll reply, Angels are Sons of God but Jesus is The Father's only begotten Son

Is he called " Son of God "

How was he begotten ?

Jozzy4:


Is he called " Son of God "

How was he begotten ?

Should I quote scripture for u again

Berean Study Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His "one and only Son", that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

There are Sons of God but Jesus is God one and only Son. There is a difference

How he was begotten......no one knows , all we know is

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that all things were made through him and for him.


So what's Ur point again? Pls ansa y he was worshipped in heaven with the Father?

Freshboi88 ... To know what you Re going into

" The son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God " (Luke 3:38).

Adam got that title because God created him.

Everyone on earth is a children of God because God created them.

Same apply to heavenly creatures , they are also sons of God . that expression is not applied to an uncreated being.

That's why the Father Is not son of anyone.

freshboi88:


Should I quote scripture for u again

Berean Study Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His "one and only Son", that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

There are Sons of God but Jesus is God one and only Son. There is a difference


How he was begotten......no one knows , all we know is

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that all things were made through him and for him.


So what's Ur point again? Pls ansa y he was worshipped in heaven with the Father?

Begotten means to be produced. .. How did God produce his heavenly sons ?

Jozzy4:
Freshboi88 ... To know what you Re going into

" The son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God " (Luke 3:38).

Adam got that title because God created him.

Everyone on earth is a children of God because God created them.

Same apply to heavenly creatures , they are also sons of God . that expression is not applied to an uncreated being.

That's why the Father Is not son of anyone.

Like I told u. This theory is not consistent with scripture.

Out of all the Sons of God, which 1 is called "One and Only". This separation of Jesus with the begotten or one and only means something, don't u think?

Like I said Ur theory that Jesus is created because he is the only Son of God is not consistent. Can a created being be accorded worship in the same breathe with the Father in heaven.

I showed you scripture where that happened.

On earth, Thomas called him My Lord and My God.. He didn't rebuke Thomas.

Which created being has been called Lord and God.

Bros u go defend Ur inconsistencies tire o

Put it right

Jozzy4:


Begotten means to be produced. .. How did God produce his heavenly sons ?

You are using human wisdom to analyze heaven things. Your case is not different from Muslim who says God cannot have a son. If he does, who is the mother?.....they ask, does God have a wife.

They use human wisdom, thts wht u r doing.

Be objective for once

16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

[b]All things]/b] were created in him, through him and For him. And yet he himself is created. Isn't this an irony?

From this verse, for him to be created, he had to be created through him n for him...does it make sense

freshboi88:


You are using human wisdom to analyze heaven things. Your case is not different from Muslim who says God cannot have a son. If he does, who is the mother?.....they ask, does God have a wife.

They use human wisdom, thts wht u r doing.

Which heavenly things do you think you know?
Now use your spiritual wisdom of heavenly things to answer the question:

In heaven,is Jesus Christ the son of his Father just as he was God's son on earth?

freshboi88:


Like I told u. This theory is not consistent with scripture.

Out of all the Sons of God, which 1 is called "One and Only". This separation of Jesus with the begotten or one and only means something, don't u think?

Like I said Ur theory that Jesus is created because he is the only Son of God is not consistent. Can a created being be accorded worship in the same breathe with the Father in heaven.

I showed you scripture where that happened.

On earth, Thomas called him My Lord and My God.. He didn't rebuke Thomas.

Which created being has been called Lord and God.

Bros u go defend Ur inconsistencies tire o

I have read your post above and as a result of your comments, I have 6 questions to ask you:

Let's see how honest you are and test your integrity .....

Bros, Please answer questions 1 to 6.

1)
Isaac is One and only ,begotten son.
How is Isaac the one and only begotten son ?

2)
Don't you think Isaac's begotten son status meant something , the same as Jesus one and only begotten status ?

3)
Now we go know whether you really love Jesus.
Whose God and whose Father is Jesus Christ ascending to?

4)
When he was on earth,who did Jesus Christ instruct you to worship?

5)
Rev1:1, in heaven, God gave Jesus the Revelation , who did God's Revelation to Jesus says you should worship?

6)
1 Cor8:5, who are the Lords and Theos in heaven and earth?

Before you attack me or my post,please answer the 6 questions...

Oshe gaan.

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This texts clearly shows that the Word (Jesus) existed before the creation of things. So he obviously is the creator.
Now even if we go by the JW logic and say the Word was created first and then the Word created all other things there would still be a problem.

Gen 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness...

The question is who actively created the heaven and the earth. It would be Jesus. Because (according to JW) God made Jesus, the Jesus made all other things. So Gen 1 would simply say;

In the beginning Jesus created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Jesus moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And Jesus said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And Jesus saw the light, that it was good: and Jesus divided the light from the darkness...

Now in Gen 2:2, someone rested. Let the JW tell us who rested...

2 And on the seventh day ---- ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Perfectbeing:
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This texts clearly shows that the Word (Jesus) existed before the creation of things. So he obviously is the creator.
Now even if we go by the JW logic and say the Word was created first and then the Word created all other things there would still be a problem.

Gen 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness...

The question is who actively created the heaven and the earth. It would be Jesus. Because (according to JW) God made Jesus, the Jesus made all other things. So Gen 1 would simply say;

In the beginning Jesus created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Jesus moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And Jesus said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And Jesus saw the light, that it was good: and Jesus divided the light from the darkness...

Now in Gen 2:2, someone rested. Let the JW tell us who rested...

2 And on the seventh day ---- ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Mr Perfect being has a Construction Project.
If Perfect being brought his son, Mr JP to work for him, (Hebrews 1:1-2) who takes the credit for the success of the Project?

Will Mr Perfect being say that Mr JP saw that the Project was very successful?
Or Mr Perfectbeing saw that the Project was very successful?

Use your Church mind ooo & God given brain answer am oooo

freshboi88:


Like I told u. This theory is not consistent with scripture.

Out of all the Sons of God, which 1 is called "One and Only". This separation of Jesus with the begotten or one and only means something, don't u think?

Like I said Ur theory that Jesus is created because he is the only Son of God is not consistent. Can a created being be accorded worship in the same breathe with the Father in heaven.

I showed you scripture where that happened.

On earth, Thomas called him My Lord and My God.. He didn't rebuke Thomas.

Which created being has been called Lord and God.

Bros u go defend Ur inconsistencies tire o

Thomas did not call Jesus his Lord and his God!

When people see the unbelievable they do say "My Lord and my God" out of amazement.

In my tribe Yorùbá, we often exclaim

"Olúwa Olórun mi o!"
Meaning "My Lord and my God"

It doesn't mean we've seen God or Jesus, it's just a sign of amazement!

That's what happened to Thomas, he never referred to Jesus (who have always taught them that God is in heaven) as God!

Janosky:

Mr Perfect being has a Construction Project.
If Perfect being brought his son, Mr JP to work for him, (Hebrews 1:1-2) who takes the credit for the success of the Project?

Will Mr Perfect being say that Mr JP saw that the Project was very successful?
Or Mr Perfectbeing saw that the Project was very successful?

Use your Church mind ooo & God given brain answer am oooo

Who rested?

freshboi88:


You are using human wisdom to analyze heaven things. Your case is not different from Muslim who says God cannot have a son. If he does, who is the mother?.....they ask, does God have a wife.


They use human wisdom, thts wht u r doing.

Be objective for once

16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

[b]All things]/b] were created in him, through him and For him. And yet he himself is created. Isn't this an irony?

From this verse, for him to be created, he had to be created through him n for him...does it make sense

Luke 1:35 says Adam is a son of God , does Adam have a mother ? How was Adam son of God ? The same apply to Every other Sons of God .

Stop ranting , an uncreated being cannot be a son. Father precedes a son. A son has a beginning, that's why God called all his creations Children.

freshboi88:


Like I told u. This theory is not consistent with scripture.

Out of all the Sons of God, which 1 is called "One and Only". This separation of Jesus with the begotten or one and only means something, don't u think?

Like I said Ur theory that Jesus is created because he is the only Son of God is not consistent. Can a created being be accorded worship in the same breathe with the Father in heaven.

I showed you scripture where that happened.

On earth, Thomas called him My Lord and My God.. He didn't rebuke Thomas.

Which created being has been called Lord and God.

Bros u go defend Ur inconsistencies tire o

Flawed analysis .
Isaac was called Abraham's one and only son too , does that mean Isaac didn't have a beginning ? does that mean Isaac wasn't born like every other Sons of Abraham ? Is Isaac of the same age with his Father ?


Jesus is a son ... Created like other sons.

Janosky:


Which heavenly things do you think you know?
Now use your spiritual wisdom of heavenly things to answer the question:

In heaven,is Jesus Christ the son of his Father just as he was God's son on earth?

Even Emusan ran when he said Godhead dwells in eternity, was Jesus God the son in this eternity . he avoided it like plague.

Jozzy4:

Flawed analysis .
Isaac was called Abraham's one and only son too , does that mean Isaac didn't have a beginning ? does that mean Isaac wasn't born like every other Sons of Abraham ? Is Isaac of the same age with his Father ?


Jesus is a son ... Created like other sons.

Remember what i told u. Human Analogyto the things of the Spirit. Isaac is human so was Abraham. Doesnt apply here.

Why was Jesus worshipped in heaven pls Answer....whybr u dodging that question

Jozzy4:


Luke 1:35 says Adam is a son of God , does Adam have a mother ? How was Adam son of God ? The same apply to Every other Sons of God .

Stop ranting , an uncreated being cannot be a son. Father precedes a son. A son has a beginning, that's why God called all his creations Children.

U will not stop amazing me. So if Jesus is created, y was he worshipped in heaven in Rev 5.

Maximus69:


Thomas did not call Jesus his Lord and his God!

When people see the unbelievable they do say "My Lord and my God" out of amazement.

In my tribe Yorùbá, we often exclaim

"Olúwa Olórun mi o!"
Meaning "My Lord and my God"

It doesn't mean we've seen God or Jesus, it's just a sign of amazement!

That's what happened to Thomas, he never referred to Jesus (who have always taught them that God is in heaven) as God!

Show me where in scripture where it says, Thomas said in amazement My Lord and My God!.


Rev 17:14 New Living Translation
Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

Was he called Lord of lords and King of kings in amazement too?

U will choke in Ur lies today

Janosky:

I have read your post above and as a result of your comments, I have 6 questions to ask you:

Let's see how honest you are and test your integrity .....

Bros, Please answer questions 1 to 6.

1)
Isaac is One and only ,begotten son.
How is Isaac the one and only begotten son ?

2)
Don't you think Isaac's begotten son status meant something , the same as Jesus one and only begotten status ?

3)
Now we go know whether you really love Jesus.
Whose God and whose Father is Jesus Christ ascending to?

4)
When he was on earth,who did Jesus Christ instruct you to worship?

5)
Rev1:1, in heaven, God gave Jesus the Revelation , who did God's Revelation to Jesus says you should worship?

6)
1 Cor8:5, who are the Lords and Theos in heaven and earth?

Before you attack me or my post,please answer the 6 questions...

Oshe gaan.

Why is Jesus worshipped in heaven

New Living Translation
Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

Why is he called the Lord of lords and the King of kings.

When u realize that he is the Lord of lords and King of kings then all these human analogies would make no sense to u

Why is he called King of kings n Lord of lords

freshboi88:


Show me where in scripture where it says, Thomas said in amazement My Lord and My God!.


Rev 17:14 New Living Translation
Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is[b] Lord of all lords and King of all kings[/b]. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

Was he called Lord of lords and King of kings in amazement too?

Show me where the scriptures says
"Thomas called Jesus 'my Lord and my God'"?

He said so in amazement.

English ~"My Lord and my God!"

Yorùbá ~ "Olúwa Olórun mi o!"

Benin ~ "Osanobua!"

Ilaje ~ "Ayelala o!"

My friend, people do exclaim when they see, hear or feel something amazing!

As for Lord of lords and King of Kings, it's a title referring to a greater Lord or King under whom lords and kings serves!

For instance
Pharaoh of Egypt
King Sennacherib of Assyria
Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon
Cyrus of Persia
Alexander of Greece
Caesar of Rome
King of England

Were all referred to as King of kings and Lord of lords because they control lords and kings!

You can verify on Google, Encyclopedias or any other secular history books!

Maximus69:


Show me where the scriptures says
"Thomas called Jesus 'my Lord and my God'"?

He said so in amazement.

English ~"My Lord and my God!"

Yorùbá ~ "Olúwa Olórun mi o!"

Benin ~ "Osanobua!"

Ilaje ~ "Ayelala o!"

My friend, people do exclaim when they see, hear or feel something amazing!

Look at this man what about in this verse

New Living Translation
Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

I have made it bold incase I didn't c it.

Was he referred to as Lord of all lords and King of all kings in amazement too?

freshboi88:



Look at this man what about in this verse

New Living Translation
Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

I have made it bold incase I didn't c it.

Was he referred to as Lord of all lords and King of all kings in amazement too?

Pharaoh of Egypt
Sennacherib of Assyria
Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon
Cyrus of Persia
Alexander of Greece
Caesar of Rome
King of England

Were all referred to as King of kings and Lord of lords because they have smaller lords and kings reporting to them!

That doesn't implies that either of them is the Almighty God Sir!

Maximus69:


Pharaoh of Egypt
Sennacherib of Assyria
Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon
Cyrus of Persia
Alexander of Greece
Caesar of Rome
King of England

Were all referred to as King of kings and Lord of lords because they have smaller lords and kings reporting to them!

That doesn't implies that either of them is the Almighty God Sir!

You should laugh at urself....cos I'll make u to continuously make a mockery of urself defending the indefensible
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb

be praise and honor and glory and power,

for ever and ever!”

14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped

Why is Jesus Worshipped in heaven?

freshboi88:


Remember what i told u. Human Analogyto the things of the Spirit. Isaac is human so was Abraham. Doesnt apply here.

Isaac is a son, Jesus and the angels are also son... Who Father them ? By what process were the Sons of God produced, Creation ?

Why was Jesus worshipped in heaven pls Answer....whybr u dodging that question

Sons of God are created being. So a created being cannot be worshipped in your own words that translation should be honor or respect. Its an error in translation just as it happened for Daniel and David.